New album info (as it rolls out...)

[Wirestone]

He's still like that. He insisted on recording I Loves You Porgy without changing the gender in the song, even though his band and record label pleaded with him to change it.

And he recorded plenty of peculiar things with Scott and Andy -- there's just less of a demand now to release every odd thing he does.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I cannot get "Isn't It Time" and "Shelter" out of my head, based on the merged Amazon/iTunes samples.

Agree, seems to be very catchy tunes! this plus the final three songs sounds dope bro dawg.

Tho i havn't heard the Itunes clips.. since i don't own/use that and it takes quite a lot of space for my small computer, anyone willing to help a dawg/bro and upload the clips ? )':

[runnersdialzero]

He insisted on recording I Loves You Porgy without changing the gender in the song, even though his band and record label pleaded with him to change it.

This makes me sad.

[Wirestone]

But he got his way! Isn't that what folks are insisting never happens anytime ever?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I'm merely using this as an example to explain what seems to be a very inherent personality trait in Brian. He can be very, very easily swayed to quickly abandon a position that he may have once been extremely confident about.

Good points, rockandroll. I've noticed that trait in Brian also. It endears you to him. You almost want to advocate for him. But, I wonder how long he's been like that, where he could be easily swayed, specifically when it has to do with his music.

For a large part of his career, he recorded whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted, even if it was at odds with the album project at hand or the direction of the band. I often wonder what the band thought when they recorded Smiley Smile, maybe even Friends (the direction, too mellow for 1968?), "Sail Plane Song", "My Solution", "A Day In The Life Of A Tree", "Mount Vernon And Fairway", "Love Is A Woman", some of the Adult Child songs, "Shortenin' Bread", "I'm So Lonely", etc.

Don't misunderstand me, I love all of those songs, love 'em - now. But, at the time they were recorded, do you really think the band liked them? I wonder if they thought, "What the hell...". Did they voice their opinion? Did Brian care? That's what he had at the time and that's what got recorded.

Brian might be different now, he might shelf what he likes in favor of the good of the group. But, when specifically do you think he changed?

Well, I do think that part of his personality has always been there. I think he got particulary cocky around the Pet Sounds/Smile era mostly because there were a lot of people around him telling him he was great and serious artist. In many ways, it is kind of good for us that it went to his head, because it spurred him on to make more and more compelling choices with his music. In other ways, it is unfortunate that he might have needed that reaction in order to spur him on. I think this is a reason why there was kind of a split between Brian and some of the other members of the group at this point because, well, they were family and friends. They didn't just know Brian as "Brian-the-brilliant-musician". They also knew him as "Brian-the-kid-I-grew-up-with."

My thoughts are really that Brian wasn't entirely recording whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted after the collapse of Smile. I think he was made to feel that Smile was inappropriate - something he certainly didn't seem to feel when recording the music, as evidenced by Sessions - and so he switched to something he considered more appropriate. People often ask, "Well, if that's the case, then why Smiley Smile? Is that more appropriate than Smile?" My answer to that is yes, if the objections to Smile was that it was pretentious in its production and its content and taking too much time to complete (which is kind of like the joke at the beginning of Annie Hall, but I digress...). If those were crucial objections, then Smiley Smile is a compromise - yes, it was still really weird but it was also an album that could be made simply and quickly and importantly, with more participation from the other members of the band.

I do think that Friends was in many ways a return for Brian (I realize I'm side-stepping what is a real favourite, Wild Honey, to make this point). I think it was just as much a Brian album as Pet Sounds. But I think after that album, there was the sense that Brian simply couldn't cut it anymore and very often his ideas were put aside and I do think that this would have had a crucial effect on a guy with the kind of personality I've been describing. The album that he seemed to be recorded post-Friends was almost entirely abandoned, he met with resistance with things like Til I Die, and Mt. Vernon and Fairway. I think the reaction to all this would be something along the lines of, "Well, you don't like this, you don't like that, and on and on, I might as well just not contribute anything."

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But he got his way! Isn't that what folks are insisting never happens anytime ever?

What manipulative tactics did he use to get his way?

[runnersdialzero]

But he got his way! Isn't that what folks are insisting never happens anytime ever?

What manipulative tactics did he use to get his way?

He threatened to stop making everyone a lot of money.

[Zach95]

But he got his way! Isn't that what folks are insisting never happens anytime ever?

What manipulative tactics did he use to get his way?

Maybe not manipulative, but the point is, he got his way. For whatever reason.

I find it pretty funny at all the "We want quirky, weird Brian stuff" as well.  Like, here Brian has the greatest backing band anyone could hope for, who accommodate his every need and have incredible respect for him, and people want to throw that away because they're too good at their instruments.  They rather have Brian pounding away at some tack piano singing unaltered raw vocals, which, by the way, he would NEVER do!

Hyperbole imo

On my part? On on those who wish for the odd, quirky stuff?

If you indeed meant on my part, someone here in this thread did actually say they would want a raw unabridged album of Brian singing with his keyboard.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Maybe not manipulative, but the point is, he got his way. For whatever reason.

Erm, you're the one who stated Brian was manipulative, so that is kind of the point, not Wirestone's distortion of what my point was, which was certainly not "Brian never gets his way at any time ever."

On my part? On on those who wish for the odd, quirky stuff?

If you indeed meant on my part, someone here in this thread did actually say they would want a raw unabridged album of Brian singing with his keyboard.

What would be wrong with that? Have you heard any of the Lennon anthology albums? The demos are pretty interesting.

And yes, on your part.

[Zach95]

Maybe not manipulative, but the point is, he got his way. For whatever reason.

Erm, you're the one who stated Brian was manipulative, so that is kind of the point, not Wirestone's distortion of what my point was, which was certainly not "Brian never gets his way at any time ever."

On my part? On on those who wish for the odd, quirky stuff?

If you indeed meant on my part, someone here in this thread did actually say they would want a raw unabridged album of Brian singing with his keyboard.

What would be wrong with that? Have you heard any of the Lennon anthology albums? The demos are pretty interesting.

And yes, on your part.

My original point was that, if anything, (as compared to his band/wife/whoever else manipulating Brian) he can be the manipulator.  I never said every time he gets his way he is manipulative.

Secondly, you want the last Beach Boys album to be Brian Wilson demos comparable to Lennon's anthology albums? I was commenting on the last Beach Boys album, and why it should not be something quirky and odd.  I have listened to those anthology albums, they're great, but not as official fifty year anniversary releases.

Lastly, how in the world was that hyperbole on my part? That's like the third time runners' has accused me of that.  People literally said that! Go look at the older posts! People want some quirky weird final album to conclude the BB career, and I just think that's ridiculous.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

My original point was that, if anything, (as compared to his band/wife/whoever else manipulating Brian) he can be the manipulator.  I never said every time he gets his way he is manipulative.

OK, then, name one time.

Secondly, you want the last Beach Boys album to be Brian Wilson demos comparable to Lennon's anthology albums? I was commenting on the last Beach Boys album, and why it should not be something quirky and odd.  I have listened to those anthology albums, they're great, but not as official fifty year anniversary releases.

Lastly, how in the world was that hyperbole on my part? That's like the third runners' has accused me of that.  People literally said that! Go look at the older posts! People want some quirky weird final album to conclude the BB career, and I just think that's ridiculous.

Part of what makes it hyperbole is how you have very much reduced people's arguments. You've suggested that people have criticized Paul Mertens because he plays exceptionally well. False. You have reduced DonnyL's argument to him wanting The Beach Boys 50th Anniversary album to be Brian sitting at a tack piano with unadorned vocals. False. You keep attributing points of view that are not only manifestly false but also extraordary exaggerations of what they are really saying. Hence you claim that Brian "has the greatest backing band anyone could hope for, who accommodate his every need and have incredible respect for him, and people want to throw that away because they're too good at their instruments." You're doing two things here: 1. exaggerating the counter-argument to make it appear ridiculous (shameful), and 2. exaggerating your own side - "the greatest backing band anyone could hope for...accomodating every need."

Do I want this Beach Boys album to be an album of Brian's demos? No. Would I like it if it were an album where Brian had fairly free creative control? Yes. And that is precisely Donny's argument.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Just for laughs:

DonnyL:

No one is implying he doesn't 'get to do what he wants'

Wirestone, 10 minutes later:

But he got his way! Isn't that what folks are insisting never happens anytime ever?

[Zach95]

My original point was that, if anything, (as compared to his band/wife/whoever else manipulating Brian) he can be the manipulator.  I never said every time he gets his way he is manipulative.

OK, then, name one time.

Secondly, you want the last Beach Boys album to be Brian Wilson demos comparable to Lennon's anthology albums? I was commenting on the last Beach Boys album, and why it should not be something quirky and odd.  I have listened to those anthology albums, they're great, but not as official fifty year anniversary releases.

Lastly, how in the world was that hyperbole on my part? That's like the third runners' has accused me of that.  People literally said that! Go look at the older posts! People want some quirky weird final album to conclude the BB career, and I just think that's ridiculous.

Part of what makes it hyperbole is how you have very much reduced people's arguments. You've suggested that people have criticized Paul Mertens because he plays exceptionally well. False. You have reduced DonnyL's argument to him wanting The Beach Boys 50th Anniversary album to be Brian sitting at a tack piano with unadorned lyrics. False. You keep attributing points of view that are not only manifestly false but also extraordary exaggerations of what they are really saying. Hence you claim that Brian "has the greatest backing band anyone could hope for, who accommodate his every need and have incredible respect for him, and people want to throw that away because they're too good at their instruments." You're doing two things here: 1. exaggerating the counter-argument to make it appear ridiculous (shameful), and 2. exaggerating your own side - "the greatest backing band anyone could hope for...accomodating every need."

Look, I don't know any more about Brian's personal involvement with his records or anybody else than anyone on this board.  There have just been examples here that I've read in the past about Brian being manipulative, stating in public interviews that he didn't come up with the Gershwin album when other sources said he did, stuff like that.  That's why I said that the manipulative comment.  People keep stating that Brian gets pushed around like they know that he gets pushed around.  I don't think that's the case. I've encountered times on this board where people have cited that wasn't the case.  Thus, my comment. Happy?

As for the hyperbole and what not, please stop twisting my words.  In the case of Paul Mertens, the original poster said he was predictable in that classically trained way.  He was referring to the arrangements, which I misinterpreted as referring to his instrumental skills.  Excuse me. Additionally, I NEVER said DonnyL wanted Brian sitting at a tack piano or whatever.  Take a look at my edit of my original post.  I even detailed that not all of what I commented on referred to DonnyL's statements.  So you accused me of something I had already attempted to protect myself against.  Finally, are you going to say that Brian's backing band isn't superb? You're really going to criticize me for calling them the "greatest backing band in the world"? Really? Oh, and they DON'T respect Brian immensely? They DON'T accommodate him? Oh, oops, I guess I shouldn't have said "his every need".  I'll watch myself next time  

[Chocolate Shake Man]

My original point was that, if anything, (as compared to his band/wife/whoever else manipulating Brian) he can be the manipulator.  I never said every time he gets his way he is manipulative.

OK, then, name one time.

Secondly, you want the last Beach Boys album to be Brian Wilson demos comparable to Lennon's anthology albums? I was commenting on the last Beach Boys album, and why it should not be something quirky and odd.  I have listened to those anthology albums, they're great, but not as official fifty year anniversary releases.

Lastly, how in the world was that hyperbole on my part? That's like the third runners' has accused me of that.  People literally said that! Go look at the older posts! People want some quirky weird final album to conclude the BB career, and I just think that's ridiculous.

Part of what makes it hyperbole is how you have very much reduced people's arguments. You've suggested that people have criticized Paul Mertens because he plays exceptionally well. False. You have reduced DonnyL's argument to him wanting The Beach Boys 50th Anniversary album to be Brian sitting at a tack piano with unadorned lyrics. False. You keep attributing points of view that are not only manifestly false but also extraordary exaggerations of what they are really saying. Hence you claim that Brian "has the greatest backing band anyone could hope for, who accommodate his every need and have incredible respect for him, and people want to throw that away because they're too good at their instruments." You're doing two things here: 1. exaggerating the counter-argument to make it appear ridiculous (shameful), and 2. exaggerating your own side - "the greatest backing band anyone could hope for...accomodating every need."

Look, I don't know any more about Brian's personal involvement with his records or anybody else than anyone on this board.  There have just been examples here that I've read in the past about Brian being manipulative, stating in public interviews that he didn't come up with the Gershwin album when other sources said he did, stuff like that.  That's why I said that the manipulative comment.  People keep stating that Brian gets pushed around like they know that he gets pushed around.  I don't think that's the case. I've encountered times on this board where people have cited that wasn't the case.  Thus, my comment. Happy?

As for the hyperbole and what not, please stop twisting my words.  In the case of Paul Mertens, the original poster said he was predictable in that classically trained way.  He was referring to the arrangements, which I misinterpreted as referring to his instrumental skills.  Excuse me. Additionally, I NEVER said DonnyL wanted Brian sitting at a tack piano or whatever.  Take a look at my edit of my original post.  I even detailed that not all of what I commented on referred to DonnyL's statements.  So you accused me of something I had already attempted to protect myself against.  Finally, are you going to say that Brian's backing band isn't superb? You're really going to criticize me for calling them the "greatest backing band in the world"? Really? Oh, and they DON'T respect Brian immensely? They DON'T accommodate him? Oh, oops, I guess I shouldn't have said "his every need".  I'll watch myself next time  

I don't think you're capable of speaking reasonably or honestly at this point. Good talking to you.

[Zach95]

My original point was that, if anything, (as compared to his band/wife/whoever else manipulating Brian) he can be the manipulator.  I never said every time he gets his way he is manipulative.

OK, then, name one time.

Secondly, you want the last Beach Boys album to be Brian Wilson demos comparable to Lennon's anthology albums? I was commenting on the last Beach Boys album, and why it should not be something quirky and odd.  I have listened to those anthology albums, they're great, but not as official fifty year anniversary releases.

Lastly, how in the world was that hyperbole on my part? That's like the third runners' has accused me of that.  People literally said that! Go look at the older posts! People want some quirky weird final album to conclude the BB career, and I just think that's ridiculous.

Part of what makes it hyperbole is how you have very much reduced people's arguments. You've suggested that people have criticized Paul Mertens because he plays exceptionally well. False. You have reduced DonnyL's argument to him wanting The Beach Boys 50th Anniversary album to be Brian sitting at a tack piano with unadorned lyrics. False. You keep attributing points of view that are not only manifestly false but also extraordary exaggerations of what they are really saying. Hence you claim that Brian "has the greatest backing band anyone could hope for, who accommodate his every need and have incredible respect for him, and people want to throw that away because they're too good at their instruments." You're doing two things here: 1. exaggerating the counter-argument to make it appear ridiculous (shameful), and 2. exaggerating your own side - "the greatest backing band anyone could hope for...accomodating every need."

Look, I don't know any more about Brian's personal involvement with his records or anybody else than anyone on this board.  There have just been examples here that I've read in the past about Brian being manipulative, stating in public interviews that he didn't come up with the Gershwin album when other sources said he did, stuff like that.  That's why I said that the manipulative comment.  People keep stating that Brian gets pushed around like they know that he gets pushed around.  I don't think that's the case. I've encountered times on this board where people have cited that wasn't the case.  Thus, my comment. Happy?

As for the hyperbole and what not, please stop twisting my words.  In the case of Paul Mertens, the original poster said he was predictable in that classically trained way.  He was referring to the arrangements, which I misinterpreted as referring to his instrumental skills.  Excuse me. Additionally, I NEVER said DonnyL wanted Brian sitting at a tack piano or whatever.  Take a look at my edit of my original post.  I even detailed that not all of what I commented on referred to DonnyL's statements.  So you accused me of something I had already attempted to protect myself against.  Finally, are you going to say that Brian's backing band isn't superb? You're really going to criticize me for calling them the "greatest backing band in the world"? Really? Oh, and they DON'T respect Brian immensely? They DON'T accommodate him? Oh, oops, I guess I shouldn't have said "his every need".  I'll watch myself next time  

I don't think you're capable of speaking reasonably or honestly at this point. Good talking to you.

I'm really unsure of how anything of what I said was so absurd.  You accused me of things, I responded.  I took particular offense to your accusation that I attacked DonnyL, when I even edited my original post to make sure that was not what was perceived. Good talking to you my friend, no hard feelings.  

Oh, and that honesty thing? Yeah, I kind of was honest when I said I misinterpreted Dada's comment.  I know it seems hard to believe that I admitted my mistake. I really was being honest though!

[monicker]

He's still like that. He insisted on recording I Loves You Porgy without changing the gender in the song, even though his band and record label pleaded with him to change it.

Do you ever read something that simultaneously excites and annoys you? This right here. Good for Brian. Really obnoxious of his band an the record label. That's really great that Brian got his way with that. I'm really happy to hear that.

[jimmy1949]

Rolling Stone gives it three Stars!!"A sugary,brand-claiming nostalgia fest. but with Wilson's return,its also an ambitious statement..." a pretty positive review. cites key album tracks at rollingstone.com!

[Jim V.]

So yeah, I'm partially in the DonnyL camp, and I agree that nothing that Brian has done in a while really strikes me as being really him. Probably the his '88 solo debut was the last time I felt that musically he was in charge. Yes, I know there was like a bunch of people that hand their hand in that, but to me, it sounds like a progression of Love You. I personally thought, song-wise, that the Paley sessions were kinda crappy. I think "Dancin' the Night Away" as an instrumental track sounds fabulous and I love Carl's part, but it's never been finished, apparently. I also like "You're Still a Mystery", but I think I like it a lot more than I would more just because for years it seemed like it was going to be the "last original Beach Boys song". And "Chain Reaction of Love" was pretty neat. But besides that there really isn't much that excites me from that collection of songs. "It's Not Easy Being Me" bugs me for the same reason "Midnight's Another Day" bugs me. It's Brian singing "confessional" lyrics that he himself probably had no emotional involvement in. And the rest just seems so throwaway, like "Marketplace" and whatnot. And this comes from a guy who thinks "I Went to Sleep" is one of the best thing's Brian's ever done.

However, on the other hand, I gotta say that I'm in the camp that believes that for the most part Brian is doing what he wants to do. He is still pleased about That Lucky Old Sun according to the Charlie Rose interview, and I'd say he's probably pretty happy about the new Beach Boys album. I think TLOS is musically pretty good, but I think the Scott Bennett lyrics are really icky in places, especially on things like "Midnight's Another Day" (as I mentioned earlier) and lyrics like "at 25 I turned out the light...". Yuck.

So honestly, I think That's Why God Made the Radio will be an improvement over TLOS. I'd rather hear nostalgic Mike Love goofiness on things like "Isn't It Time", "Summer Vacation", and "Beaches in Mind" rather than Scott Bennett trying to re-tell us the "Brian Wilson story".

Honestly, to me, the problem with Brian's solo career hasn't so much been the production of the tracks, as much as his vocals and the lyrics. The absolutely horrible lyrics, coupled with Brian doing his worst "Bill Murray from Caddyshack" vocals on GIOMH is what really makes that album suck. And as much as people say he sounded great on TLOS, I just don't hear it. I think he still sounds gruff and just a bit "off", and Scott Bennett's lyrics are just plain distracting. It's not a coincidence that the best lyrics on the album come from "Good Kind of Love" (which was written by Brian only) and "Live Let Live" (which had lyrics by Van Dyke). The vocal that really convinced me that he still had it though, was "Listen to Me", the Buddy Holly cover. He sounds absolutely beautiful on it, even better than the BWRG album. And I think he's sounding possibly even better on "Summer's Gone". So I'm excited. And the lyrics, on the new album, while not great, aren't quite as distracting.

And as far as him "producing" these days, let's be honest. He probably does have the final say in the studio, and therefore is the producer, but he's probably cool with something slicker these days, and isn't looking to blow people's minds like he did in the '60s. Let's face it, the dude apparently doesn't really write that much music anymore, and likely is okay with his band picking up some of the slack. Do I wish he would do a self produced album with him playing all the instruments and having just The Beach Boys doing the vocals? Sure. But we have the facts that this is probably not what Brian wants anymore, ya know?

[Runaways]

Gives it three Stars!!"A sugary,brand-claiming nostalgia fest. but with Wilson's return,its also an ambitious statement..." a pretty positive review. cites key album tracks at rollingstone.com!

what?

[jimmy1949]

you heard me dude.

[Runaways]

all i see is the track review

[pixletwin]

Its a subscribers only review.

[Ron]

But he got his way! Isn't that what folks are insisting never happens anytime ever?

Nobody knows what happens, they just flop it this way or that to fit whatever they're trying to say.  So if a song is sh*t, it's not because Brian screwed up, it's because Melinda's evil.  Or the record company hates him.  Or the band members produced it instead of Brian.  If the album isn't as good as Pet Sounds, it's because Brian's friend Joe produced it.  Or because Mike Love can't write.  If the album doesn't sell well, it's Capitol Record's fault, because they didn't do promo right and always mess it up.  If Brian doesn't sound good enough, it's because Joe used Autotune.  If Brian sounds too good, it's because Joe used Autotune. 

Blah Blah Blah

I think the truth is (and this is my version of the truth, just like everybody else has their version, so feel free to trash it)... the truth is, Brian's an incredibly brilliant man, sometimes, but sometimes he just doesn't give a sh*t, so sometimes he does good, sometimes he doesn't.  Kind of like the rest of the population, save Mother Theresa, Danny Thomas, and a few other noteable sainthood-worthy people. 

[The_Holy_Bee]

Dammit, wrong thread. Apologies.

[bcdam]

Honestly, to me, the problem with Brian's solo career hasn't so much been the production of the tracks, as much as his vocals and the lyrics. The absolutely horrible lyrics, coupled with Brian doing his worst "Bill Murray from Caddyshack" vocals on GIOMH is what really makes that album suck. And as much as people say he sounded great on TLOS, I just don't hear it. I think he still sounds gruff and just a bit "off", and Scott Bennett's lyrics are just plain distracting. It's not a coincidence that the best lyrics on the album come from "Good Kind of Love" (which was written by Brian only) and "Live Let Live" (which had lyrics by Van Dyke). The vocal that really convinced me that he still had it though, was "Listen to Me", the Buddy Holly cover. He sounds absolutely beautiful on it, even better than the BWRG album. And I think he's sounding possibly even better on "Summer's Gone". So I'm excited. And the lyrics, on the new album, while not great, aren't quite as distracting.

He does sound amazing on "Listen To Me". Perhaps one day he'll put out a cover album all of those 50s and 60s songs that he talks about in every interview...