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Author Topic: New album info (as it rolls out...)  (Read 1051376 times)
DonnyL
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« Reply #2975 on: May 22, 2012, 02:14:17 PM »

The notion that "we all" know what a BW production sounds like -- and that this "obvious" knowledge proves his noninvolvement in his recent records' sound or production ignores history and the records themselves.

Love You and Adult Child were abberations in BW's creative trajectory -- the work of a man forced to create one-man band productions as therapy. Little in BW's work before or after this time suggests that he prefers to work in this manner, and much of it suggests instead that he wants to make pop records for the widest audience possible using the same musicians and a stable of trusted collaborators.

Which, amazingly, is what he has managed to do over the last dozen years.


I disagree with this assessment. I would hardly call "Still I Dream of It" or "It's Over Now" abberations. Love You and Adult Child are pure BW productions, through and through. The same vibe found on "Amusement Parks USA", "In the Back of my Mind", "I Went to Sleep", "Funky Pretty". Absent from much of 20/20, half of Surf's Up, "I Can Hear Music". It's a certain strangenes. I can even hear it in 'Male Ego', even though the label says Steve Levine produced it. I'd venture to say BW had a bigger hand in that than the rest of the '85 LP. Let's just say I'm sensitive to Brian Wilson's magic touch, and I've not heard it in a new release in many years, and I don't believe he's lost it either. There is a whimsical, child-like beauty his production style.

But perhaps you're right -- maybe all Beach Boys fans here don't know what a Brian Wilson production sounds like. And maybe that's the problem.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 02:18:44 PM by DonnyL » Logged

runnersdialzero
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« Reply #2976 on: May 22, 2012, 02:17:05 PM »

Hard for me to understand the reason why so many people want an official release of a bunch of songs they already have and can listen when they want. Paley sessions are ok, as are many unreleased songs from the past that have leaked, but I prefer new stuff.

The quality is terrible, especially considering it's next to impossible to find lossless sources for a lot of this stuff nowadays - God knows how much tampering or transcoding has been done to the MP3s. It'd be nice to have this stuff at the correct speed and in good quality. By this logic, you may as well have said to hell with The Smile Sessions.
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« Reply #2977 on: May 22, 2012, 02:18:44 PM »

The Paley tracks to my mind would have been the best BW solo album he's done, period . I'd prefer an official archive release as is though rather than further recording and a release as a new BB's album.

The difficult truth is that Brian had less involvement with many Paley sessions tracks -- as songwriter and producer -- than he did with his solo work before or after that time. People simply prefee Paley's impression of BW than BW's actual creations.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #2978 on: May 22, 2012, 02:24:00 PM »


It seems the group's management and Brian's people are not and have not been interested in actually supporting a true Brian Wilson production since Love You.  

That is true. And, warranted or unwarranted, Brian somewhat is to blame (for lack of a better word) . I think, to the group and the record companies, Brian burned too many bridges, disappointed people, didn't deliver what others wanted or expected.

After Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations", the Beach Boys were on the top of the music world, and Brian did Smiley Smile. After the Endless Summer/Spirit Of America explosion, the Beach Boys were arguably the most popular band in the world, and Brian produced 15 Big Ones and Love You. To a lesser degree, by the time "Getcha Back" came out, the Beach Boys were gaining some momentum again, and Brian was supposedly involved in the 1985 album and learning the new technology blah blah blah, and his contributions on the 1985 album were less than expected. In each case, with each of the above releases, the Beach Boys took a big nosedive.

There is a trend here. Momentum is built, Brian - for whatever reason - records the wrong album at the wrong time. Or, usually due to substances -  prescribed or otherwise - isn't in shape to come through. Whether it is Mike Love or Melinda or the record company or whoever, they do not want history to repeat itself. Thus, we get the Brian-assisted productions. How much "assistance" Brian was given is the big question. However, it appears this regime at Capitol Records is covering all the bases.

Probably so. I suppose they're focused on the immediate at the expense of the group's legacy.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #2979 on: May 22, 2012, 02:26:19 PM »

The Paley tracks to my mind would have been the best BW solo album he's done, period . I'd prefer an official archive release as is though rather than further recording and a release as a new BB's album.

The difficult truth is that Brian had less involvement with many Paley sessions tracks -- as songwriter and producer -- than he did with his solo work before or after that time. People simply prefee Paley's impression of BW than BW's actual creations.

Brian's vocal tracks tell another story.  Just listen to the heartfelt singing there ... something was very different about these sessions.  The vibes are spooky ... something totally absent from the recent releases.
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« Reply #2980 on: May 22, 2012, 02:40:44 PM »

The Paley tracks to my mind would have been the best BW solo album he's done, period . I'd prefer an official archive release as is though rather than further recording and a release as a new BB's album.

The difficult truth is that Brian had less involvement with many Paley sessions tracks -- as songwriter and producer -- than he did with his solo work before or after that time. People simply prefee Paley's impression of BW than BW's actual creations.

Brian's vocal tracks tell another story.  Just listen to the heartfelt singing there ... something was very different about these sessions.  The vibes are spooky ... something totally absent from the recent releases.

As opposed to Brian's soaring vocals on Imagination? His stellar, quirky work on TLOS? Or his remarkable tone and phrasing on the Gershwin and Disney records?

To any nonideological observer, all four of those records have vocals that far outstrip the Paley sessions. So it must follow that BW dictated every note on those records.
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« Reply #2981 on: May 22, 2012, 02:46:13 PM »

I think I'm probably the only person who doesn't find much memorable about the Paley sessions. Granted, it's been a while since I've heard them but I wasn't impressed when I did the first time...
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« Reply #2982 on: May 22, 2012, 02:55:04 PM »


It seems the group's management and Brian's people are not and have not been interested in actually supporting a true Brian Wilson production since Love You.  

That is true. And, warranted or unwarranted, Brian somewhat is to blame (for lack of a better word) . I think, to the group and the record companies, Brian burned too many bridges, disappointed people, didn't deliver what others wanted or expected.

After Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations", the Beach Boys were on the top of the music world, and Brian did Smiley Smile. After the Endless Summer/Spirit Of America explosion, the Beach Boys were arguably the most popular band in the world, and Brian produced 15 Big Ones and Love You. To a lesser degree, by the time "Getcha Back" came out, the Beach Boys were gaining some momentum again, and Brian was supposedly involved in the 1985 album and learning the new technology blah blah blah, and his contributions on the 1985 album were less than expected. In each case, with each of the above releases, the Beach Boys took a big nosedive.

There is a trend here. Momentum is built, Brian - for whatever reason - records the wrong album at the wrong time. Or, usually due to substances -  prescribed or otherwise - isn't in shape to come through. Whether it is Mike Love or Melinda or the record company or whoever, they do not want history to repeat itself. Thus, we get the Brian-assisted productions. How much "assistance" Brian was given is the big question. However, it appears this regime at Capitol Records is covering all the bases.

Great post
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« Reply #2983 on: May 22, 2012, 03:00:49 PM »

I'd be fascinated to learn where his creative mind would take him production-wise if he had a room full of musicians who wouldn't play a note until he told them how he wanted it to sound.

Me too.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #2984 on: May 22, 2012, 03:00:58 PM »

The Paley tracks to my mind would have been the best BW solo album he's done, period . I'd prefer an official archive release as is though rather than further recording and a release as a new BB's album.

The difficult truth is that Brian had less involvement with many Paley sessions tracks -- as songwriter and producer -- than he did with his solo work before or after that time. People simply prefee Paley's impression of BW than BW's actual creations.

Brian's vocal tracks tell another story.  Just listen to the heartfelt singing there ... something was very different about these sessions.  The vibes are spooky ... something totally absent from the recent releases.

As opposed to Brian's soaring vocals on Imagination? His stellar, quirky work on TLOS? Or his remarkable tone and phrasing on the Gershwin and Disney records?

To any nonideological observer, all four of those records have vocals that far outstrip the Paley sessions. So it must follow that BW dictated every note on those records.

Personally, I don't find Imagination to have many redeeming qualities, aside from some nice songwriting here and there. Brian sounds 'good', but totally not into it (sleepwalking through it).

TLOS doesn't sound quirky to me at all.  But I don't want to start $hit-talking these records ... they are fine for what they are, but they're not in the realm of the real stuff in my opinion.  The Paley material is though.

The point I'm getting at here is this: If BW somehow presented the group's and his management with another Friends or Love You today, it would be rejected, twisted and perverted into some kind of digitally-perfected adult contemporary mess. It's like the only two choices are 'fun in the sun' or 'serious'/AC Pet Sounds.
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« Reply #2985 on: May 22, 2012, 03:03:27 PM »

I'd be fascinated to learn where his creative mind would take him production-wise if he had a room full of musicians who wouldn't play a note until he told them how he wanted it to sound.

Me too.

"We've just been doing what he likes to do – the kind of records he's always liked; I don't try to change anything in any way – his vision of what he wants. When he says 'Do this' in the studio, I do it. I don't question it." -- Andy Paley.
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« Reply #2986 on: May 22, 2012, 03:10:04 PM »

Quote
The point I'm getting at here is this: If BW somehow presented the group's and his management with another Friends or Love You today, it would be rejected, twisted and perverted into some kind of digitally-perfected adult contemporary mess. It's like the only two choices are 'fun in the sun' or 'serious'/AC Pet Sounds.
The Lucky Old Sun demos are a case in point. A real BW album would be those songs as they appear there, maybe with a few more overdubs if presented as a finished release. Left to his own devices, Brian is going to produce piano/keyboard heavy songs. There wouldn't be the Wondermints and a professional arranger all over it. They do what they think is right, and Brian goes along with it because he's convinced that's what people want. His suggestions fall under that umbrella. IMO, anyway.
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« Reply #2987 on: May 22, 2012, 03:12:52 PM »

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I think we all know what Brian Wilson productions sound like and they are generally weird and unpredictable, and a little disconcerting at times.
Amen. That's also why I hate Paul Mertens! He's so predictable in that classically trained way. Brian's arrangements were never so conventional.  When I hear a woodwind or string arrangement from Mertens, I just cringe inside. Go arrange a new CATS! production already and get off my BW record!

Amen to the amen.
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« Reply #2988 on: May 22, 2012, 03:27:38 PM »

I'd be fascinated to learn where his creative mind would take him production-wise if he had a room full of musicians who wouldn't play a note until he told them how he wanted it to sound.

Me too.

"We've just been doing what he likes to do – the kind of records he's always liked; I don't try to change anything in any way – his vision of what he wants. When he says 'Do this' in the studio, I do it. I don't question it." -- Andy Paley.

Yeah, in my fantasy world, if i were given the opportunity to produce a BW album--which for various reasons, i wouldn't accept the offer, but if i did--my approach would be as hands off as possible, to the point where it might even be argued that it’s not even really producing. I would try to encourage his ideas more than anything, and constantly ask him for his opinion on how he thinks certain things should sound. If he wanted something that i thought sounded awful, it would be hard to swallow but i would, although if he asked my opinion i would probably let him know that i wasn’t into the idea. Maybe someone who doesn’t know anything about record production should produce him? 
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« Reply #2989 on: May 22, 2012, 03:49:02 PM »

We are making a big assumption here - that Brian still has the production chops to come up with something brilliant.

Since Brian was Landyfied for about ten years (1982-1992?), he hasn't geniused around very often. If you consider Love You/ Adult Child to be his last top-flight production work, well, that's been about 36 years now. I mean, we are beyond the "Brian still has it but doesn't wish/care to share it" train of thought, aren't we? Maybe that last sentence belongs in the Is Brian Still A Genius thread...
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« Reply #2990 on: May 22, 2012, 03:55:49 PM »

We are making a big assumption here - that Brian still has the production chops to come up with something brilliant.

Since Brian was Landyfied for about ten years (1982-1992?), he hasn't geniused around very often. If you consider Love You/ Adult Child to be his last top-flight production work, well, that's been about 36 years now. I mean, we are beyond the "Brian still has it but doesn't wish/care to share it" train of thought, aren't we? Maybe that last sentence belongs in the Is Brian Still A Genius thread...

Seems to me we are forgetting that Brian hasn't been able to truly see an album's production through, from start to finish, since Pet Sounds. I think Brian simply isn't able to complete the task without a lot of help and encouragement from outside.. whether those sources are Joe Thomas, Mertens, Wonderminds, whoever.

The Brian that produced Pet Sounds just does not exist anymore. The assumption that he does is very frustrating.
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« Reply #2991 on: May 22, 2012, 04:12:03 PM »

"That blurb from Joe that Wirestone posted makes me really like the guy"

Unfortunately, the resulting album was only a third decent and that had to do with the songs rather than the production and instrumentisation.  In the BB world, nothing is black and white.  Thomas and O'Hagan obvioulsy love the music. I've seen a quote along the lines of Was being keen on 'collecting' the great artists of the 60s as some kind of pet project.  The work with the Stones was great; with Dylan, beyond awful; with Brian, it was sometimes inspired; sometimes so-so.

My objection to Thomas is the horrible synthetic AOR veneer of his approach - although i thought some of the choice of songs (by whoever...) was poor considering what was lying around.

I'm not going to buy the sudden deification of Thomas simply because he's worked on the new album or because he likes Surf's Up, admirable though that undoubtedly is (in my book).

It's quite possible that he can be somewhere between saint and sinner, like the rest of us.  No need to deify him, but I'm not going to get too upset that he's involved with making music with one of my heroes. 
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« Reply #2992 on: May 22, 2012, 04:13:28 PM »

The Paley tracks to my mind would have been the best BW solo album he's done, period . I'd prefer an official archive release as is though rather than further recording and a release as a new BB's album.

The difficult truth is that Brian had less involvement with many Paley sessions tracks -- as songwriter and producer -- than he did with his solo work before or after that time. People simply prefer Paley's impression of BW than BW's actual creations.

Brian's vocal tracks tell another story.  Just listen to the heartfelt singing there ... something was very different about these sessions.  The vibes are spooky ... something totally absent from the recent releases.

As opposed to Brian's soaring vocals on Imagination? His stellar, quirky work on TLOS? Or his remarkable tone and phrasing on the Gershwin and Disney records?

To any nonideological observer, all four of those records have vocals that far outstrip the Paley sessions. So it must follow that BW dictated every note on those records.

Personally, I don't find Imagination to have many redeeming qualities, aside from some nice songwriting here and there. Brian sounds 'good', but totally not into it (sleepwalking through it).

To me, when Brain sings "I miss the way that I used to call the shots around here!" he is most certainly NOT sleep walking.  Imagination is a glorious album.

However, I appreciate DonnyL's comments on the poignant "weirdness" of some of Brian's music ("I Went to Sleep" or "Happy Days").

Would be cool to have an archival release of the Paley stuff.  As a fan I have actually heard very little of it.

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« Reply #2993 on: May 22, 2012, 04:13:39 PM »

Hard for me to understand the reason why so many people want an official release of a bunch of songs they already have and can listen when they want. Paley sessions are ok, as are many unreleased songs from the past that have leaked, but I prefer new stuff. Eventually we'll get the archival stuff anyway. If it's old but unheard of, it's good also. Besides, every time a new release has included a previiously heard song, the reaction among the fanbase tends to be "meh". It was that way with GIOMH and a few others

I agree!  I'm *THRILLED* that they're writing and recording new music, to hell with having new recordings of stuff that we already have.  Brian just did that with his last two albums, lol.  "Brian Wilson Reimagines The Paley Sessions that he originally Imagined in the first place".  
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« Reply #2994 on: May 22, 2012, 04:15:33 PM »

The notion that "we all" know what a BW production sounds like -- and that this "obvious" knowledge proves his noninvolvement in his recent records' sound or production ignores history and the records themselves.

I agree, it's the arrogance of fanatics, I mean fans, creeping in again.  They have noooo clueeee who did what, even if somebody tells them if could be b.s. 
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« Reply #2995 on: May 22, 2012, 04:17:11 PM »

The Paley tracks to my mind would have been the best BW solo album he's done, period .

...because it's unreleased.  If TLOS was unreleased, you'd be saying IT'S the best album he ever did.


"It's got SPOKEN WORD links between the tracks!!!! They say one of the songs is about his smog phobia!!! There's rumours, that he and Van Dyke wrote an environmental song for it!!!"
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DonnyL
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« Reply #2996 on: May 22, 2012, 04:18:34 PM »

We are making a big assumption here - that Brian still has the production chops to come up with something brilliant.

Since Brian was Landyfied for about ten years (1982-1992?), he hasn't geniused around very often. If you consider Love You/ Adult Child to be his last top-flight production work, well, that's been about 36 years now. I mean, we are beyond the "Brian still has it but doesn't wish/care to share it" train of thought, aren't we? Maybe that last sentence belongs in the Is Brian Still A Genius thread...

I think he does.  Or if he doesn't, I think it would be more interesting to see what he comes up with left to his own devices where he calls the shots.  If he fails, let it be a fantastic, bold failure.
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« Reply #2997 on: May 22, 2012, 04:20:16 PM »

We are making a big assumption here - that Brian still has the production chops to come up with something brilliant.

Since Brian was Landyfied for about ten years (1982-1992?), he hasn't geniused around very often. If you consider Love You/ Adult Child to be his last top-flight production work, well, that's been about 36 years now. I mean, we are beyond the "Brian still has it but doesn't wish/care to share it" train of thought, aren't we? Maybe that last sentence belongs in the Is Brian Still A Genius thread...

Seems to me we are forgetting that Brian hasn't been able to truly see an album's production through, from start to finish, since Pet Sounds. I think Brian simply isn't able to complete the task without a lot of help and encouragement from outside.. whether those sources are Joe Thomas, Mertens, Wonderminds, whoever.

The Brian that produced Pet Sounds just does not exist anymore. The assumption that he does is very frustrating.
Hell, the Brian who made "love you" is long gone.
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« Reply #2998 on: May 22, 2012, 04:23:29 PM »

Hard for me to understand the reason why so many people want an official release of a bunch of songs they already have and can listen when they want. Paley sessions are ok, as are many unreleased songs from the past that have leaked, but I prefer new stuff. Eventually we'll get the archival stuff anyway. If it's old but unheard of, it's good also. Besides, every time a new release has included a previiously heard song, the reaction among the fanbase tends to be "meh". It was that way with GIOMH and a few others

I agree!  I'm *THRILLED* that they're writing and recording new music, to hell with having new recordings of stuff that we already have.  Brian just did that with his last two albums, lol.  "Brian Wilson Reimagines The Paley Sessions that he originally Imagined in the first place".  

I'm cool with the new record, but I doubt many of the songs are really any more recent than the Paley material in any case.  And I'm not certain how much BW we're getting vs. how much Jon Bon Jovi we're getting.  I'll wait for the vinyl before I make any concrete decisions on it myself.
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« Reply #2999 on: May 22, 2012, 04:23:44 PM »

The Paley tracks to my mind would have been the best BW solo album he's done, period .

...because it's unreleased.  If TLOS was unreleased, you'd be saying IT'S the best album he ever did.

Because the world will not just shut the f*** up when it comes to stating Sweet Insanity and the 1977 Christmas album are the best albums ever in the history of everything.
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