New album info (as it rolls out...)

[Autotune]

If the vocal effects are a purely artistic preference, so be it. Some will not like them, others will, others won't care either way.

If they are radio-oriented (i.e. conceived to compete and win the race for radio airplay and currentness), some will like them etc. But in this case, if the album and some of its songs become hits, they (Brian, actually, as producer) will be proved right.

[Zach95]

Does anyone think, regardless of vocal effects, that the Boys sound fantastic?

I'm just wondering, because a friend of mine who is a huge fan listened to the samples and said Brian "sounded like an angel".  He also said Al sounded really great.  Then, he asked if pitch correction is being used.  I told him most likely yes, but that didn't seem to bother him (it doesn't particularly bother me either). 

Anyway, I'm just wondering what the consensus is in terms of if they sound good, or if the effects harm their vocal performances.

[onkster]

People used to consider multi-tracking as a sin on the order we consider autotune today: "But...they couldn't/didn't play it live like that! That's cheating!" Same with editing and double-tracking/flanging on vocals. ("What, 17 edited takes for Johnny Angel/C'mon Let's Go?")

Which most sensible people realized was bullmerda--I mean, how many people complain about stuntment and effects in movies? Nobody says "But Harrison Ford didn't jump off that exploding cliff like that on the soundstage!" As George Martin once said, multitracking in the studio was more akin to making a film than a live album.

As with any technology, it's how it's used, and to what end in supporting the art/music presented. Sometimes it's used well, sometimes it ain't.

[Dave in KC]

Does anyone think, regardless of vocal effects, that the Boys sound fantastic?

Yes, but will it be "commercial" ?

[drbeachboy]

As Monicker said, in most cases it is used for effect. They are going for a certain sound. To how many of you is this a deal breaker for buying the new CD? I've found with Brian's solo releases, that it sounds a lot worse when streaming the songs from online sources, but not nearly as bad when listening to the actual CDs. Personally, on CD, it is no worse to my ears than reverb or echo.

[runnersdialzero]

I really don't think it's being used for effect here, though. The only folks who use it for effect are, yes, folks like T-Pain, Ke$ha etc. when the effect is cranked to 11 and purposefully manipulated for effect. While it's not especially pleasing to the ear (my ear, anyway), I can respect that more than I can for how it's being employed here. Not saying the entire production is a bust at all, I'm just still wondering who OKed this being used overall, especially with stuff like the glitch on Al's voice in "From There To Back Again", Brian's underwater-robot voice on a couple of the songs, that sort of shtuff.

[drbeachboy]

Are we being to quick to the draw here with only hearing this from previews? As we have been finding out lately, what they put there isn't always what wind up on the CD.

[runnersdialzero]

Are we being to quick to the draw here with only hearing this from previews? As we have been finding out lately, what they put there isn't always what wind up on the CD.

We'll see. By all accounts, the CDs that are around sound like this, too.

[seltaeb1012002]

I'm just still wondering who OKed this being used overall, especially with stuff like the glitch on Al's voice in "From There To Back Again"

Damn. Spring Vacation sounds pretty clean. Sorry to hear they left a glitch in FTTBA.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

It may just be in the sample, they probably haven't even finalized the mixes yet, it will most likely be fixed.

[runnersdialzero]

It may just be in the sample, they probably haven't even finalized the mixes yet, it will most likely be fixed.

That's extremely rare, though. Anytime clips are posted and someone says, "Well, they're just clips, I'm sure they fixed it," the album usually shows up and not surprisingly, the clips were taken directly from the final retail CD. Clips of rough mixes used to promote an album would be considered a bad move by most unless explicitly labelled as such (which does happen every great once in a while), so it makes sense.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Well, it may just be a compression fragment from the servers lossy compression method

[Autotune]

Does anyone think, regardless of vocal effects, that the Boys sound fantastic?

I'm just wondering, because a friend of mine who is a huge fan listened to the samples and said Brian "sounded like an angel".  He also said Al sounded really great.  Then, he asked if pitch correction is being used.  I told him most likely yes, but that didn't seem to bother him (it doesn't particularly bother me either). 

Anyway, I'm just wondering what the consensus is in terms of if they sound good, or if the effects harm their vocal performances.

They do sound fantastic!!! Six months ago we couldn't even dream something like this would occur. We are blessed as fans. And so are the BBs for keeping their voices, their spirits and making it happen.

[monicker]

People used to consider multi-tracking as a sin on the order we consider autotune today: "But...they couldn't/didn't play it live like that! That's cheating!" Same with editing and double-tracking/flanging on vocals. ("What, 17 edited takes for Johnny Angel/C'mon Let's Go?")

Which most sensible people realized was bullmerda--I mean, how many people complain about stuntment and effects in movies? Nobody says "But Harrison Ford didn't jump off that exploding cliff like that on the soundstage!" As George Martin once said, multitracking in the studio was more akin to making a film than a live album.

As with any technology, it's how it's used, and to what end in supporting the art/music presented. Sometimes it's used well, sometimes it ain't.

AHHHHHHHHH. I can't let this go without being addressed because it's the sort of missing the point that elevates it to an art.

The argument isn't that pitch correction software is cheating or that’s it’s misleading or deceiving or indicative of a lack of ability. It’ about THE SOUND that is produced when it’s transparent (meaning: you can hear it when you’re not supposed to be hearing it) or when it is flat out used as an effect. Je-sus. Multi-tracking arguably doesn’t have its own distinct, characteristic SOUND. This isn’t about Ludditism. Nor is this about wanting to be fucking retro. How hard is it to grasp this concept?

The only argument you have in what you said is with the people who once said that they didn’t like the sound of double tracking. Not that they didn’t like the concept of it, but rather the SOUND that it produces. That’s it. The rest is a straw argument. And obviously no one here can speak for the people who might have, 60 years ago complained about the sound of double tracking.

No, people don’t complain about Harrison Ford not doing his own stunts (dumb analogy, but i will entertain it anyway) but a lot of people do laugh when it is very clear that the guy who just jumped off the cliff looks nothing like Harrison Ford except that they have the same clothing and hat. This falls into the category of Autotune being transparent. The stunt double who jumped off the cliff is supposed to look like Harrison Ford, the audience is supposed to be fooled into thinking it's really him. The Autotune (or similar software) that corrects the pitch of off notes is supposed to sound like a seamless vocal performance, the listener is supposed to think it's on key singing.

I don't know anything about this, but i imagine there are parody/satirical comedy type movies where they make it really obvious that it's a stunt double, as a gag. You can see where this is going...that would be comparable to Autotune used in the way that Cher or T-Pain use it. No one's hiding it, it's supposed to call attention to itself. I guess this is where runnersdialzero and i disagree, but i think that in From There To Back Again, as well as Spring Vacation, it's being used as an effect. Granted, it's not as extreme as how you hear it in popular radio songs today. But being "turned up to 11" is not the only way that it can be used as an effect. With any effect there are milder/subtler ways to use it and extreme ways to use it.

On other parts of the samples from iTunes, rather than it sounding like an effect, it sounds like transparent pitch correcting.

Lastly, the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Joe Thomas, Melinda, etc. have every right to use pitch correction software as they see fit. And we have the right to not like it. And talking about it is not going to change their mind, yes, we got that. Nobody owes anybody anything. 

 

[Wirestone]

Multi-tracking arguably doesn’t have its own distinct, characteristic SOUND.

Mmm. Gonna have to disagree with you there. Multiple versions of a single person's voice singing at the same time? That's a pretty characteristic sound.

[monicker]

if the album and some of its songs become hits, they (Brian, actually, as producer) will be proved right.

I have never understood this logic. If an audience likes something then the producer was "right"? What if in a parallel universe in 1966 Brian Wilson had decided to use a different chorus of the different arrangements that he recorded for Good Vibrations, and the single failed to chart? Would that have proven Brian Wilson "wrong" as a producer? Or what if he had ended up using different sections for Good Vibrations from all those outtakes that exist, but the single had still shot up to #1? A totally different arrangement and sequence, and, what, is he still right? More right, less right? What about your favorite non-charting song of all time, did the producer of that song not make the "right" decision because the public never validated it with chart success? If TWGMTR tanks, what, Brian will have been proved wrong? This all rests entirely on the fate of how the public will receive a song at any given point and time in history? And also, what are you saying, that if some of the songs on TWGMTR become hits it would be because of the vocal effects? How can anyone know exactly what aspect or combination of aspects contributed to a single resonating with an audience enough to make it a hit?

[Zach95]

Just out of curiosity, can the enraged pitch correction discussion that's evident on this board be found anywhere else? Or are we the only ones who talk about it.

[monicker]

Multi-tracking arguably doesn’t have its own distinct, characteristic SOUND.

Mmm. Gonna have to disagree with you there. Multiple versions of a single person's voice singing at the same time? That's a pretty characteristic sound.

I was referring to, say, a band in one room playing all together, as opposed to one or a few people recording all the instruments by multi-tracking. That is  because the original poster wrote: "But...they couldn't/didn't play it live like that! That's cheating!"
Uh, it's a given that one person multi-tracking their voice is going to have a distinct sound.

[monicker]

Just out of curiosity, can the enraged pitch correction discussion that's evident on this board be found anywhere else? Or are we the only ones who talk about it.

Come on Zach, you really think anyone here is enraged? I don't think there's any need to belittle people's opinions, observations, and tastes by distorting things like that.

[Zach95]

Just out of curiosity, can the enraged pitch correction discussion that's evident on this board be found anywhere else? Or are we the only ones who talk about it.

Come on Zach, you really think anyone here is enraged? I don't think there's any need to belittle people's opinions, observations, and tastes by distorting things like that.

K, you know what I meant.  Serious discussion.  Stop distorting MY comments and reading into something that isn't there.  There has been extended, (and sometimes angry) discussion about this pitch correction thing.  I'm just wondering if other boards have had the same discussion.

[Shady]

This might easily end up being one of my favorite Beach Boys albums ever

[b00ts]

Multi-tracking arguably doesn’t have its own distinct, characteristic SOUND.

Mmm. Gonna have to disagree with you there. Multiple versions of a single person's voice singing at the same time? That's a pretty characteristic sound.

I was referring to, say, a band in one room playing all together, as opposed to one or a few people recording all the instruments by multi-tracking. That is  because the original poster wrote: "But...they couldn't/didn't play it live like that! That's cheating!"
Uh, it's a given that one person multi-tracking their voice is going to have a distinct sound.

Love your posts, Monicker. It is also worth mentioning that for many of us who have been listening to The Boys for all these years throughout their vast catalogue, we are used to the timbre of their voices. Speaking for myself, I had never before heard Al's wonderful voice through pitch correction, so it is jarring to me every time I play the clip.

Many of us also don't listen to genres of music where pitch correction is typically used, so it is doubly jarring to hear in these clips.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Ok as much as I don't wanna ruin the song for myself....
What Excactly is wrong with Al's "FTTBA" vocal besides the subtle autotune and double track (which btw, is what sounds robotic to you all, you NEVER AUTOTUNE AN ADT VOCAL.)? Some type of fragment or something?

[seltaeb1012002]

Ok as much as I don't wanna ruin the song for myself....
What Excactly is wrong with Al's "FTTBA" vocal besides the subtle autotune and double track (which btw, is what sounds robotic to you all, you NEVER AUTOTUNE AN ADT VOCAL.)? Some type of fragment or something?

No clue, lol.

I know I'm gonna like it no matter what. I like pretty much everything these guys do as a band. And honestly I have faith in Joe Thomas' vocal production. Though perhaps he should stay away from the board at live gigs (and it seems like he is now.. ), no one's gotten later-era Brian to sound as good as he did on Imagination. It's hard to deny that the vocals sound pretty beastly on Spring Vacation. If that and TWGMTR are any indication, I'm sure it'll all be ear candy.

Still haven't listened to the samples yet. Gonna be a long 2 1/2 weeks!

(plays Spring Vacation for the 25th time today...)

[Jonathan Blum]

AHHHHHHHHH. I can't let this go without being addressed because it's the sort of missing the point that elevates it to an art.

The argument isn't that pitch correction software is cheating or that’s it’s misleading or deceiving or indicative of a lack of ability. It’ about THE SOUND that is produced

But that's a different silly argument.

The theremin is a hugely cliched sound -- used in a really crass way in countless junky '50s sci-fi movies.  What the hell does Brian think he's doing, using a bit of it on "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times"?

It's all context.  And if you freak out at the first hint of hearing a recognizable sound just cause it was trendy in a different context, you won't be able to keep it in perspective in terms of how it works in this song...

Cheers,
Jon Blum