The Smile Sessions MONO - a disaster for the Beach Boys' Legacy

[Justin]

The Smile Sessions MONO - a disaster for the Beach Boys' Legacy

A "disaster?" 

Typical exaggerated and over-the-top assessment common of Generation Y.

[Dr. Tim]

As your listeners get younger and younger you'll be hard pressed to find any who know the difference between mono and stereo mixes, and why for ten years or so most LP releases were mixed both ways.  Forget young folk - for most people these days music is background to something else, played through smartphones, earbuds, mini-speakers and TV rigs; wherein fidelity, let alone stereo, are NOT big concerns.

There's a funny YouTube, which may be partly staged, where a dad shows his 13-year old daughter an LP and she is nonplussed, unable to comprehend what it is or how it works.   (That said, turntables and vinyl are selling pretty well, in the big cities, to mostly younger listeners and club DJ-types).

[GuyOnTheBeach]

I hate to be blunt, but here's the score;
Mono is sound out of one speaker
Stereo is two corresponding sounds out of two speakers

That difference means diddly squat to me, and I'm sure many others, someone said something to me regarding the issue once - "What would you prefer; bad stereo or good mono?"

And listening to some of those early 60's stereo mixes (early Beatles, Mamas & Papas, various other early/mid 60's bands) I always try to find the mono mixes because that broken stereo is actually MORE distracting over headphones. The fact of the matter is (as stated ad nausium on this board) until the mid/late 60's stereo was nothing more than a novelty, and until the advent of 16 and 24 track recording consoles, wasn't usually achieved very well.

I understand that Mono may be jarring for some people used to stereo, but what would you prefer, a very good Mono mix with deep sound and a clean soundscape, or a distracting Stereo mix with vocals hard panned one direction, a Mono rhythm track in the middle, whatever sweetening hard panned the other direction, and whatever else shoved somewhere for the sake of it being present (which with quite albums from this time frame is the only possible mix, or some configuration of this)

We were lucky with Pet Sounds because of the recording process at the time made decent stereo possible (which is ironic since I'm sure Brian was one of few producers who WASN'T thinking about stereo in 1966). I may be incorrect here (and please correct me if I am wrong), but I don't think a great deal of bouncing down was done during the SMiLE sessions at least not to the extent to Pet Sounds, which would mean even if these multi tracks were still present, a decent stereo image wouldn't be too realistic with a few of the tracks.

I know this post sounds like I'm whinging but I'm not, I'm just pointing a few things out. It's not a disaster, it's an album mixed in the most realistic way it could have been, it doesn't affect the quality of the music

[SG7]

Brian was never capable of hearing his work in stereo. So why be surprised that it is in mono? I really didn't like the stereo of PS. So many things got lost in transition. My parents are in their 60s and they can't tell mono from stereo. However I can and I am 23. So don't put all of us young people in a box.

[Cabinessenceking]

I would consider Smiley Smile to be among their top 4-5 albums

So where's your post complaining that there's no stereo mix of Smiley Smile

Here:
Someone made a stereo mix of it, and it sounds fabulous, but Smiley Smile is a pure fan thing, Smile itself could've attained a larger following like PS has.

I'm still just a kid but I am part of the the earplugs generation of music fans, and stereo Smile is to me the best music available for the human ear (next to classical compositions) and stereo PS ofc. MONO Smile sounds old, I understand with many of the missing pieces but are any of them crucial?

- I would like to ask why GV must be on Smile? that wasn't the original intention when GV was concieved, as a result it stands out radically in style and lyrical content compared to the main Smile-body

- CIFOTM acetate, interesting to hear for the first time on TSS, but not neccessary and sounds worse than the old chorus IMO.

- Barnyard, not a crucial song, could even be mostly instrumental, no main vocal was ever really done ( the demo is hardly a demo, more like accidentally recorded at a radio station)

- Cabinessence, the 1969 version with longer tag would be epic
-Prayer, same

Now that these small adjustments have been made, why not make it stereo...

This is not for me, I have heard smile and dozens of mixes.

I want the larger public to hear it, and the genious of the music if revealed when hearing it in STEREO, agree or not THIS IS MY JUSTIFICATION for making the thread. Sorry if i upset too many.

[Cabinessenceking]

The Smile Sessions MONO - a disaster for the Beach Boys' Legacy

A "disaster?" 

Typical exaggerated and over-the-top assessment common of Generation Y.

true my bad, but got some attention to the topic at least. That is entirely my bad and I regret it.

[hypehat]

- I would like to ask why GV must be on Smile? that wasn't the original intention when GV was concieved, as a result it stands out radically in style and lyrical content compared to the main Smile-body

- CIFOTM acetate, interesting to hear for the first time on TSS, but not neccessary and sounds worse than the old chorus IMO.

- Barnyard, not a crucial song, could even be mostly instrumental, no main vocal was ever really done ( the demo is hardly a demo, more like accidentally recorded at a radio station)

- Cabinessence, the 1969 version with longer tag would be epic

-Prayer, same

Good Vibrations was going to be on Smile for the same reason it was on Smiley Smile, where it totally belongs, right? 

The Child vocals, both acetate and usual chorus, don't exist in the vaults in any form, from what I can gather, apart from those mixes.

Come on, how pissed would we all be if they just didn't put Barnyard in Smile? Can you honestly say you'd ditch it?

The Cabin Essence lead and truck driving man don't appear to exist in multitrack form any more. And the mix on 20/20 is just ADD'd into stereo lead/backing vocals in stereo/track in mono.

Wonderful's lead, for instance, only exists on the mono mixdown.

You couldn't have YAMS, and Great Shape would only be an instrumental.

The vocals for the second verse of Heroes & Villains was, at least at the last stereo mix they did (and it doesn't sound very stereo on this new one), not on multitracks. You also couldn't have the Cantina mix, as those takes of the verse and subsequent backing vocals (unique arrangements to that mix, natch) only exist on that copy. So Heroes & Villains could not, in all three BW sanctioned forms (Cantina/Single/BWPS) be done properly in stereo. Ditch it?

I would possibly grant you Prayer, but seeing as they were done in the same studio in the same timeframe as the now-lost Cabin Essence vocal overdubs, there's a high chance they were lost too.


The other way to look at it is this. If they were to release a stereo version of SMiLE tomorrow, the only songs with lyrics would be H&V (without a second verse), Do You Like Worms (Bear in mind it only has 19 unique words in it and a nonsensical chant), Vegetables, Wind Chimes, Surf's Up, and er, Gee?

Sounds great.... 

[MyGlove]

thats funny. i'm 19 and actually prefer it in mono.

[Zach95]

Dem der kids...I kent stand 'em.  With der fanciful erefones and dem lit up ipeds.  I dint even kno why dem kids even post on dis board... 

Sheesh..seriously you old folk, relax with the Generation Y insults and what not.  I'm 16, I prefer/LOVE the mono mix, and I've defended that point numerous times.  Don't generalize younger members on this board, especially when some of us actually DO contribute in a positive manner. For the few that don't...and they definitely exist...yell at them. Not the whole lot of us. 

[sidewinder572]

I don't think the problem is that he prefers stereo. The issue is that he flat out states that no one his age will want to listen to it in mono. Not only that he uses all caps to really drive his point home.  It doesn't take a 20 year old, 80 year old or 4 year old to know that this is a completely ignorant and stupid statement. As if everyone 20 and under is only programmed to hear stereo. Stereo when done right is great, mono when done right is great and The SMiLE Sessions mono is great. Especially on vinyl.

[Biggus Dikkus]

While I do actually prefer to listen to the fan mixed versions of SMiLE in stereo, I think calling the mono version a "disaster" may be a little bit of an overstatement, sure, it may sound old on headphones, but who cares? You're listening to it the way Brian intended and an official Stereo release is probably unlikely. Not to mention, I don't think they had a whole lot of source material they could have used for stereo mixes.

[Ron]

I'm not saying I agree with his thesis (I think Smile works well in mono, and Austin made some good points as well), but I don't think the insinuation that his opinions are wrong because he's 20 is justified. 

I didn't say his opinion on stereo vs. mono is wrong because he's 20.  I said his opinion that nobody his age listens to mono blah blah blah was illustrative of his undeveloped brain.

I stand by that assessment. 

[Ebb and Flow]

The other way to look at it is this. If they were to release a stereo version of SMiLE tomorrow, the only songs with lyrics would be H&V (without a second verse), Do You Like Worms (Bear in mind it only has 19 unique words in it and a nonsensical chant), Vegetables, Wind Chimes, Surf's Up, and er, Gee?

Sounds great.... 

I don't agree with Smile in mono being a "disaster", but I think the argument that the entire album must be all in stereo or nothing for consistency's sake isn't really fair.  Many of the early stereo albums released by the group had some tracks in mono, and if the post-'65 albums had stereo releases this trend would have continued.  I personally wish the box had included stereo mixes of all the tracks that allowed it.

[b00ts]

I personally like the mono and stereo (and 5.1 where available) mixes of The Beach Boys catalogue. I would love more stereo and surround mixes, but Ithe technology for a full, commercially-releasable stereo mix of SMiLe is some years away.

Solution: listen to fan mixes, the available stereo mixes (the ones on the vinyl are superlative) and BWPS. I agree with the others that anyone who is going to listen to SMiLe regardless of their age will have to meet it on its own terms. It is just that kind of work.

I would love stereo and 5.1 mixes of SMiLe, Smiley Smile, and Wild Honey...

Incidentally, Cabinessenceking makes a bold, provocative point, but it is not his fault that he is 20 years old, and condescending to him because of his age is classless and undermines any legitimate point either party is trying to make.

[b00ts]

BUT I CAN TELL EVERYONE HERE THAT NOBODY MY AGE WILL LISTEN TO MONO PS OR SMILE

Not slamming you.  I used to be 20.  I still say ridiculous things from time to time, but boy you should have seen the stupid things I thought back when I was your age. 

I can't imagine.

[Ron]

BUT I CAN TELL EVERYONE HERE THAT NOBODY MY AGE WILL LISTEN TO MONO PS OR SMILE

Not slamming you.  I used to be 20.  I still say ridiculous things from time to time, but boy you should have seen the stupid things I thought back when I was your age. 

I can't imagine.

I'm annoyed by you, too... so don't feel bad.  The feeling is mutual. 

[Quzi]

I'm seventeen and all of my friends have no problem with mono. In fact, since we're constantly sharing earphones whenever we're on public transport together, it's often preferred!

[Cabinessenceking]

I'm not saying I agree with his thesis (I think Smile works well in mono, and Austin made some good points as well), but I don't think the insinuation that his opinions are wrong because he's 20 is justified. 

I didn't say his opinion on stereo vs. mono is wrong because he's 20.  I said his opinion that nobody his age listens to mono blah blah blah was illustrative of his undeveloped brain.

I stand by that assessment. 

I stand by my statement that you are a rude imbecile.

[Micha]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to release a full SMiLE in stereo.

Strictly speaking, it is even impossible to release a full 1966/67 SMiLE in mono - no recorded vocals for Holidays, Look, the verses of CIFOTM and DYLW... not even mentioning ILTSDD. So they had to release an incomplete SMiLE anyway. (Better incomplete than not at all!!!) A stereo SMiLE would only be even more incomplete.

Mono rules!!! IMHO. And I love "Holidays".

[The Heartical Don]

I think the opening post is, sad to say, a non-starter. There are numerous reasons why, too many to give all of them.

TSS isn't aimed at a crowd of 14-year olds who start complaining at the moment their music's not in stereo (the same kind of children don't watch black and white movies, because that's 'old hat'). TSS is aimed at a very heterogeneous group of listeners, old and young, a discerning bunch of people, who desired two things: authenticity and listenability.

Messrs. Linett and Boyd have fulfilled these wishes in the best possible way. Period.

Remember the 'colouring' of old Laurel & Hardy movies, or, God forbid, film noir classics? Only very childish people and total fools had some appreciation for that, and thankfully the process died a quick and very deserved death.

Moreover: would any sane person even begin to think about the 'stereofication' of old blues recordings (Robert Johnson, for instance), or classic jazz (early Miles, Louis Armstrong, and so on and so forth), or historical classical music (J.S. Bach's 'Well-Tempered Clavier', as done by Edwin Fischer, wholeheartedly recommended by the way)? Of course not.

Upshot: the way Brian would have done and wanted it to be like.

That's it.

[The Shift]

TSS Disc 1 is mono and that's what it is, a mono disc. If a stereo disc becomes available. I'll buy it.

If someone gave me a cake without icing, I'd eat the thing and enjoy it, not just dump it on a shelf and grumble about it. See, once you take a bite, you find it's full of jam and delicious.

Anyone who's dissatisfied with their mono disc, please PM me and I'll send you my address so you can mail it to me. I'm more than happy to stockpile a few spares from when mine wears out.

[cablegeddon]

Let me put it to you this way. As much as it was good for BB's legacy to release Pet Sounds in stereo, equally it hurt their legacy to release Smile in mono. You can say that it's unfair, unjust but just look at the reactions out there. It's obvious.

[The Shift]

So you're refusing to listen to it?

[cablegeddon]

Who?

[18thofMay]

Let me put it to you this way. As much as it was good for BB's legacy to release Pet Sounds in stereo, equally it hurt their legacy to release Smile in mono. You can say that it's unfair, unjust but just look at the reactions out there. It's obvious.

Odd...