gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 05:34:08 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 12 Guests are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 29 [30] 31 32 33 34 35 ... 79 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Stephen Desper Thread  (Read 718559 times)
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #725 on: November 23, 2006, 06:30:48 PM »

Quote
So, did Brian use two echo chambers during his mid 60's heyday when he was trying to emulate the Wall of Sound?

Yes.  But Phil tended to simply use more total reverb than Brian.  It wasn't so much how many chambers, but how much of the signal was wet with reverb.

Quote
Also, Spector used two echo chambers at Goldstar but Brian did most of his recording at Western Recorders. Why?


Chuck Britz.

Quote
Why didn't Brian record at Goldstar?


He did record at Gold Star quite a bit.  Lots of Smile, two Pet Sounds cuts, and plenty of other occasions, particularly when involving his outside-the-Beach-Boys-productions.

Quote
Were there two echo chambers at Western?

I believe there were at least 4 chambers, possibly more as I think Western and United shared several.  Plus EMT plates which are also used all over Brian's records.
Logged
Daniel S.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 896



View Profile
« Reply #726 on: November 23, 2006, 07:35:41 PM »

Thanks for the info. What's an EMT plate?
Logged

Let us all stay teenage gamblers listening to the radio.
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #727 on: November 23, 2006, 10:31:11 PM »

EMT plates are big rectangular metal plates suspended by springs that create reverb sounds when you hit it with sound.  Google it and I bet you can find some pictures and more technical info.
Logged
king of anglia
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 248



View Profile
« Reply #728 on: November 24, 2006, 01:42:32 AM »

Aeijtzsche,

Would the return signal of an echo chamber be recorded to a seperate track on a 4 track machine?

Also, how is your job going? What interesting things have you been listening to in the past few months?
Logged
Daniel S.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 896



View Profile
« Reply #729 on: November 24, 2006, 10:24:06 AM »

Did Brian's home studio have echo chambers?
Logged

Let us all stay teenage gamblers listening to the radio.
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #730 on: November 24, 2006, 02:39:08 PM »

Quote
Aeijtzsche,

Would the return signal of an echo chamber be recorded to a seperate track on a 4 track machine?

Also, how is your job going? What interesting things have you been listening to in the past few months?

Most of the time the echo would just be routed back into the dry signal from the individual channel and then just bussed out with whatever else was going down that buss.  But it was possible to patch the reverb return to another channel, though it doesn't seem like Brian did that very often.

There are a few tracks that do sound like all the reverb returns were sent to their own track, but it's hard to tell. 

The job is going OK, but to be honest, I've been listening to very little music lately, and when I do, it's been non-Beach Boys.


Quote
Did Brian's home studio have echo chambers?

It had one, rigged up for stereo effects, as described in Mr. Desper's book, which you should probably own.
Logged
Daniel S.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 896



View Profile
« Reply #731 on: November 24, 2006, 10:09:46 PM »

Yeah, I'm going to buy Mr. Desper's book for Christmas.
Logged

Let us all stay teenage gamblers listening to the radio.
XY
Guest
« Reply #732 on: November 28, 2006, 07:15:30 AM »

Steve Desper on the road:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kb_bhHz0FU

(England, December 1968)
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #733 on: December 01, 2006, 06:20:16 AM »

Stephen, several years ago you talked about HDTV on the ShutDown-ColumnatedRuins-Cabinessence board...and now it's here, as you reported.   Is it what you thought it would be?
Yes.  I was speaking to the standards used and that topic has settled.  Now the big debate is over blu-ray disc versus HD-DVD.  Think the blu-ray is best and will win this war, but for now it's still a double release for many movies.  Remember Beta verses VHS?

More information >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

~swd
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #734 on: December 01, 2006, 07:03:20 AM »


COMMENTS TO HEYWOOD FLOYD:
I'm not a musician so I don't know that much about playing or recording but I am music obsessed. Especially with Spector and Brian Wilson.  Since you are "obsessed" with the music, and since Brian Wilson is a RECORDING artist, suggest you learn more about RECORDING in order to appreciate the MUSIC.  Brian speaks to the music through the medium of RECORDING.  In other words, he is not a song writer, per say. He does not write a tune and then publish it on sheet music for others to realize. He realizes his own tunes by first RECORDING them. Thus, anyone obsessed with a recording artist should understand the artist's craft.  

I was reading about Phil Spector's Wall of Sound technique, and I read that he used two echo chambers. One of the two echo chambers was filled with speakers and microphones. The speakers would be blasting the music the wrecking crew was playing in another studio room while the mics picked up the music reverberating off the walls, and then this sound was recorded to tape. Well that's sort of how echo chamber's or reverb chamber's work. All reverb chambers contain one (mono) or two (stereo) microphones and loudspeakers. The signal fed to the chamber speakers comes directly from the musicians in a studio or from a track on the multi-track tape (after the musicians have recorded the track). The sound inside the chamber is very reverberant and is picked-up by the microphones inside the chamber and fed back to the recording console for mixing in with the original signal.  The ratio of dirct to reverb signal dictates how "thick" the echo will be.  Spector used more reverb to achieve his "wall of sound." I know Brian, like Spector, used multiples of instruments to create one sound, but Brian's recordings aren't as saturated or have as much echo as Spector's. So, did Brian use two echo chambers during his mid 60's heyday when he was trying to emulate the Wall of Sound? Brian never tried to emulate Spector. He was facinated by his so-called "sound," but was his own man. Spector would sometime feed the output of one chamber into a second chamber in an effort to gain more echo, but his "wall of sound" is really not a matter of how many chambers as much as how the ratio of direct to reverb is set. Also, Spector used two echo chambers at Goldstar but Brian did most of his recording at Western Recorders. In the very early days of stereo recording, some engineers were overly concerned with mono compatibility and used one chamber for the left and one for the right channel. Since the two chambers were completely seperated, there would be no mono compatibility issues. Brian stayed with mono longer than most recording artists and did not need the two chambers. Why? Some chambers have longer decays than others and compliment some instruments over others. Thus the use of two chambers. One for vocals and one for an effect or something.   Why didn't Brian record at Goldstar? Were there two echo chambers at Western? Brian recorded mostly at Western because Chuck Briz was a staff engineer at that facility. His desire to use Chuck far outweighed his need for two reverb chambers. Besides, Western has EMT plate units and reverb from a second chamber could be added at the time of mixdown. 
~swd
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #735 on: December 01, 2006, 07:36:00 AM »

Thanks for the info. What's an EMT plate?

COMMENT TO HEYWOOD FLOYD:

Some time ago I posted a complete segment on the EMT plate. I could not find it in the desper-peda search engine. Here's a photo.
  

  Size about 4 feet by 8 feet by one foot thick.

The EMT plate is a contraption that can replace the echo chamber and produce a simular sound reverberation effect. its advantage over an echo chamber is that it takes up much less real estate and can be located anywhere such as in a storage room, basement or attic.
~swd
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 09:38:03 AM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #736 on: December 01, 2006, 07:40:05 AM »

Steve Desper on the road:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kb_bhHz0FU

(England, December 1968)

You guys are too much!!
~swd
Logged
Jonas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1923


I've got the Beach Boys, my friends got the Stones


View Profile
« Reply #737 on: December 01, 2006, 09:53:24 AM »

Welcome back Stephen, you were missed! Smiley
Logged

We would like to record under an atmosphere of calmness. - Brian Wilson
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1IgXT3xFdU
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #738 on: December 01, 2006, 11:33:55 AM »

Welcome back Stephen, you were missed! Smiley

Thanks.  I've been watching the thread, but no one was posting.  So, ask away people while you have the chance. ~swd
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #739 on: December 01, 2006, 11:49:08 AM »

COMMENT TO HEYWOOD FLOYD:

You would gain some insight into Brian's recording techniques and his on-the-fly development of reverb usage by listening to "Sessions Part 1" and "Part 2" from The Pet Sounds Sessions 30th Anniversary Collection issued by Capitol (#CS7243 B 37662 2 2) and produced by Brian Wilson.

Recommended >>> http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Sounds-Sessions-Beach-Boys/dp/B000002U4U

You can check out some of the session highlights at the above link.

~swd
Logged
king of anglia
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 248



View Profile
« Reply #740 on: December 01, 2006, 12:06:28 PM »

Sir Mr Desper your honour,

If you take a look a this site: http://myspace.com/steveisgood it should start playing a tune of mine. It was recorded using as many techniques as possible that I've learnt here off this here website, including re-mic'ing and other Desper stereo-isation tricks.  It's based around a sample of a Bobbie Gentry song but there are quite a few live instruments.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts on these tracks.
Ta,
Steve



Logged
Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014


View Profile
« Reply #741 on: December 01, 2006, 01:04:51 PM »

Not that my opinion counts as much as Mr. Desper's, but I dug it  Cheesy
Logged
Charles LePage @ ComicList
Chairman Of The Board
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 982


Hit me with your pet shark.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #742 on: December 08, 2006, 09:45:11 PM »

All of Stephen's comments on EMT plates (all the ones I could find so far, at least) can be read here:

http://www.smileysmile.net/desperblog/index.php?cat=49
Logged

"quiet here, no one got crap to say?" - bringahorseinhere
Susan
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 446



View Profile
« Reply #743 on: December 10, 2006, 08:04:26 AM »

Glad to see you back, Stephen - hope you're feeling 100% better!
Logged

All of My Dad's Truck's on-line tracks all in one place!
MBE
Guest
« Reply #744 on: December 27, 2006, 01:50:49 AM »

Dear Stephen hope all is well.

I have two questions for you.
Of all the lead vocals you recorded on Brian what was your favorite? Though he used it gradually less often,  I personally think his voice from 67-74 was still as pretty as ever.

My second question concerns the "vibes" version of "Til Die" included on the Endless Harmony soundtrack. The notes say you did for your own enjoyment, but seem to indicate that you submited it to them to the group as well. Did you formally submit for their use? I know it was included on a reel of songs you made for the group in late 1970 which falsely came to be known as Landlocked. I always assumed this was done just so they could hear your mix.

Thanks in advance for taking the time read this question, I know these events took place a very long time ago but anything that you recall will be very helpful.
Have a happy new year. 
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #745 on: December 31, 2006, 08:47:08 AM »

Sir Mr Desper your honour,

If you take a look a this site: http://myspace.com/steveisgood it should start playing a tune of mine. It was recorded using as many techniques as possible that I've learnt here off this here website, including re-mic'ing and other Desper stereo-isation tricks.  It's based around a sample of a Bobbie Gentry song but there are quite a few live instruments.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts on these tracks.
Ta,
Steve

COMMENT TO ANGLIA:  I have listened to your tracks several times through and enjoyed them every time.  I listened through my big stereo system, doing a little "mastering" to the sound to my liking, and encourage you to keep writing and recording.  Whatever techniques you used in the making of your tracks, the technique served you well, or at least, served my ear well when listening.  With your permission I would like to copy the tracks onto a CD for my library. 

Good Listening,
~Stephen W. Desper




Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #746 on: December 31, 2006, 09:31:01 AM »

Dear Stephen hope all is well.

I have two questions for you.
Of all the lead vocals you recorded on Brian what was your favorite? Living with a Heartache -- not Brian's voice but Carl's.  Though he used it gradually less often,  I personally think his voice from 67-74 was still as pretty as ever.

My second question concerns the "vibes" version of "Til Die" included on the Endless Harmony soundtrack. The notes say you did for your own enjoyment, but seem to indicate that you submited it to them to the group as well. Did you formally submit for their use? You make recording sound so ceremonial.  They went out for lunch or something like that and since the song was already mounted and a mix up, I put together what I thought was a structure that better showcased the harmonic beauty of Brian's writing. Somewhere thereafter I did play the track for Carl, but only in the interest of disclosure, not to sway him to change the structure that Brian intended. The next time I found myself at Artisan Mastering House cutting some rough mixes, I took my tape copy of that version and cut an acetate.   I know it was included on a reel of songs you made for the group in late 1970 which falsely came to be known as Landlocked. I always assumed this was done just so they could hear your mix. My structured version of Til I Die remained in my possession and library for many years. When Alan Boyd assumed the role of offical Beach Boy archivist, he came to my home one day and we got out every reel and disc I could find.  When I played the Til I Die I had made, he wanted to include it in an upcoming CD of rare or unreleased recordings he was working on at the time. I loaned him my master tape -- the result being included in the "Landlocked" album.   
Thanks in advance for taking the time read this question, I know these events took place a very long time ago but anything that you recall will be very helpful.
Have a happy new year.  Thank you, and best of the New Year to you and all fans.  For 2007 -- not to be off on a doom & gloom scenario -- I hope there are more questions posed that I may answer. Those of us who were directly involved in events of those past sessions and concerts are not getting any younger, so once your opportunity is departed, the answers will be second-hand.  Charles LePage has set-up a forum that will be refered to by generations to come, but its sum and substance is only motivated by the questions coming from the field, since none of us has-been players, or now-time players are authors who sit down and write without motivation. As you get older, you assume a sense of urgency about these things, so pardon me if I'm sounding a little odd.  But in a word, don't take things for granted.

Good Listening in 2007,
   ~Stephen W. Depser   
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #747 on: December 31, 2006, 09:53:28 AM »

Thanks Stephen, you have always been great with us fans and researchers and speaking for this board I know we are all glad you are here.
Logged
king of anglia
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 248



View Profile
« Reply #748 on: December 31, 2006, 12:09:09 PM »

Sir Mr Desper your honour,

If you take a look a this site: http://myspace.com/steveisgood it should start playing a tune of mine. It was recorded using as many techniques as possible that I've learnt here off this here website, including re-mic'ing and other Desper stereo-isation tricks.  It's based around a sample of a Bobbie Gentry song but there are quite a few live instruments.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts on these tracks.
Ta,
Steve

COMMENT TO ANGLIA:  I have listened to your tracks several times through and enjoyed them every time.  I listened through my big stereo system, doing a little "mastering" to the sound to my liking, and encourage you to keep writing and recording.  Whatever techniques you used in the making of your tracks, the technique served you well, or at least, served my ear well when listening.  With your permission I would like to copy the tracks onto a CD for my library. 

Good Listening,
~Stephen W. Desper





Thanks for the comments Mr. Desper.
Of course you have my have permission to copy the tracks onto a CD, but I would be happier if you were to use higher bit-rate versions than the ones on the website.  Can I send you some high quality mp3 versions or even WAV files instead?

I'd also be interested to know what kind of mastering you did.

Thanks,
Steve
Logged
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #749 on: January 04, 2007, 02:34:56 PM »

Hi Steve, I hope you're well.

I have some questions for you about monitoring for my, as yet hypothetical, future studio...

I'd love to know your thought/opinions on the best way to go about creating a good monitoring system, on a budget, for tracking, mixing, possibly mastering, "all purpose" I suppose.  I imagine any "control room" that I would be using would not really be acoustically tuned, would probably be a bedroom or something, so I'd set it up on a temporary basis probably, to get the best environment I could.  Any recommendations about signal paths, amplifiers, bi-amping, etc, would be great.

Thanks!
Logged
gfx
Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 29 [30] 31 32 33 34 35 ... 79 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 1.386 seconds with 23 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!