The Stephen Desper Thread

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:


Study-Videos can now be viewed via this link:

SWD Study-Videos  >>>  http://swdstudyvideos.com

The Break Away Study-Video is up and running.  Please visit. It's informative and fun.

It’s all there.

Good Listening,  ~Stephen W. Desper


And, Please leave any return comments here at the Desper thread.

[Glenn Greenberg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Desper!

[Alex]

Flip Flop Flying (Santas got an airplane) uses that spatial 3-D effect  thingy

Jim, why is any object we don't understand always called a "thing"?

[Mitchell]

Hi again, Stephen... I hope you haven't answered any questions about this song before but I couldn't find anything...

Do you have any memories regarding the Halloween track "My Solution" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnyGklpCc84 )?

I have to say I love the dirgy quality of it and the bubbly sci-fi track. The lyrics/narration are a bit ridiculous but that's just another reason to love it!

[Ram4]

Thank you so much!  I've been waiting to hear your study of Break Away, one of my favorite BB songs.  The a cappella version is one of the best a cappella mixes of any BB song, which begs the question "why isn't this on the upcoming box?!"  Even better, why don't they just give us every BB song a cappella?  The more I hear, the more I am blown away.

[Bud Shaver]

Listening to Break Away and hearing stuff I never picked up before.  You've made my day Stephen!  Thanks a million times over...

[bsten]

Hi Stephen:

First of all thanks a million for what you did for the BB's!!!   And thanks a lot for the links on your own pages, great great stuff!! Made my day!! Especially CCW!! Perhaps we could have had the tracks as mp3's or wav's, but your insightful explanation of every part makes it, don't know what to say, thrilling!! All the where's and why's... Thank you thank you thank you!!! The Beach Boys for connoisseurs...!!!  

I love to hear the different versions and breakdowns. I am hoping for a double/triple cd series of vocals only + instrumentals only of all BB albums...

Now, Sunflower has been my favorite album (next to PS), because of the excellent mixing and production. I remember the BB always using the latest techniques back then, with astounding results. Visiting my aunt when Sunflower was released - purchased the album, put it on my aunt's record player, and they had a huge room, sooooo wonderful, I couldn't stop playing, played it all day!!! Especially "CCW" and "Our sweet love"!!! I was so sad I wasn't able to listen to the quad version... I've also waited 40+ years to learn how the drip drop sounds were made - a big secret back then!!!  

There's another thread on here, "Cool Cool Water Live 1971 on Mike Douglas", where you mention you taped rehearsals (or practice performances) of "CCW" - now that would be something...!!!  

Cheers from Sweden  
Bengt Stenstrom

COMMENT:


Study-Videos can now be viewed via this link:

SWD Study-Videos  >>>   http://swdstudyvideos.com

The Break Away Study-Video is up and running.  Please visit. It's informative and fun.

It’s all there.

Good Listening,  ~Stephen W. Desper


And, Please leave any return comments here at the Desper thread.

[cube_monkey]

oops, my mistake. Moffit engineered Carl and the Passions.

[GlenDinning]

Hello Stephen,
THanks for these study-videos.  When you were working on the original sessions did you perform the mastering as well as the engineering and mix-down?Or was mastering performed separately at, say, the preparation-for-vinyl stage?  If someone else did a final mastering prior to pressing did that represent a loss of control that you/the band were ever uncomfortable with?
Regards,
Keith

[Stephen W. Desper]

Hello Stephen,
THanks for these study-videos.  When you were working on the original sessions did you perform the mastering as well as the engineering and mix-down?Or was mastering performed separately at, say, the preparation-for-vinyl stage?  If someone else did a final mastering prior to pressing did that represent a loss of control that you/the band were ever uncomfortable with?
Regards,
Keith

COMMENT:  Working to get my book out to the fans, so you'll get a short answer. It's covered in the book, forthcoming. Stay tuned.

Like someone other than the author best does the editing of a book, someone who did not mix the original track best does Mastering. Mastering engineers are a breed unto themselves. I have my favorites and used Artisan for mastering. We mixed on Altec monitors and mastered on JBL monitors. I was at all sessions and OKed the final master LP matrix. A test pressing was made and then Carl signed-off on the final if he liked it. Thus artistic control was maintained, at least with the first issues. A "LP Master Tape" was also made at this time. This tape contained all the EQ and level changes made for the LP matrix, so that any need for a new matrix (due to sales) is a flat transfer from the LP Master Tape. European releases are all made from the LP Master Tape or a copy thereof. Therefore, reissues of the LP and all foreign issues are one or two generations removed from the actual mix master. Re-issues of the new HD digital versions are the work of mastering engineers outside of the group's influence. These remasters usually have analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog steps which renders a sonic signature different from the original, not necessarily bad, but different. If you want to hear the original, you must find a first-issue pressing and reproduce the LP on a completely analog playback system.

~SWD

[Stephen W. Desper]

Ok.  Were you involved with recording "here she comes" off of Carl And the Passions?  NO.  Those drums sound just fantastic, how the heck did they get that in-your-face quality? The drums sound gated to me and without reverb. This will render that presence you are hearing.    limited and compressed?  Maybe also because there are less other instruments so they were brought up higher in the mix? You guessed it!! Anytime there are only a few sounds to compete with each other it makes each element have clearity, which you noted.
Also, do ya know who the heck mixed that song? Did Ricky not want anyone to hear him singing?  As a kid this was the first song where i noticed the mix (maybe not in a good way!!!) The CD is credited with being made in "the house studio" which is incorrect. It was recorded at The Beach Boy Studio in Santa Monica, CA, for which Moffet designed the monitor speakers. No one but myself ever engineered anything at The House Studio. Personally I did not care for the sound signature of Moffet's design, and I suspect the monitors were the reason for the vocal being so hard to hear. My experience with both Carl and Rickie is that they do want the vocal "up." These opinions are only my guess. I wasn't there.

Thank you for your headphone recommendations (much earlier) with the 7506...which i now own.   Glad you like them. I do to.
Also, it was asked which mic was best to use in a home studio situation, different price ranges were mentioned.  You said for budget, under 300, you'd just
go with the old trusty sm58/57. thats interesting, I've asked other experienced engineers and they say the same thing.  Its interesting that mic (which i have)
is still a standard (not to get into the details of good or bad), but that even for vocals in a studio it is mentioned. Amazing. Yes, it seems Shure got that design right!  

Jay

[Mr. Tiger]

Mr. Desper,

Your study video series is uniformly fascinating and enlightening. Is there a chance you might be able to devote a future volume to the Friends song Little Bird?

Thanks,
MT

[cube_monkey]

Thank you Stephen!

>>>The drums sound gated to me and without reverb. This will render that presence you are hearing.
Just that little minor thing makes this whole form worthwile to me.Well, the mystery is solved I gotta try that trick.  Never would of thought of that.  Learn so much here.  Books (except yours of course) aren't good have stuff like this. for the most part.
I think few pop groups other than the Beatles have such an interesting *recording* history, course as a kid, that is what sucked me in.

I've been studying the Cabinessence video/audio so far and A/B ing it with 20/20 (haven't checked the Smile Sessions yet).  I can hear the difference even though I am just using headphones.  I have to really listen over and over as I grew up with the LP and a good (not super audiophile) stereo.  One gets
spoiled by Sunflower and Surfs up and how that was recorded and that's whats burned into the brain, I expect everything to sound like that, including my stuff.
But its a great standard to shoot for.  I think that era of their music and singing really lends itself to this.  Wonder how it would of been if Brian and Carl
ect. Didn't really care about having super sound...I don't know any other surfing groups that do that much.
Some of the processing reminds me (just a little) of the  BBE stuff, or other way around.




Thank you for doing this, I hope this (using other music or whatever) works into something good for you.

thanks again
Jay

[GlenDinning]

Hello Stephen,
THanks for these study-videos.  When you were working on the original sessions did you perform the mastering as well as the engineering and mix-down?Or was mastering performed separately at, say, the preparation-for-vinyl stage?  If someone else did a final mastering prior to pressing did that represent a loss of control that you/the band were ever uncomfortable with?
Regards,
Keith

COMMENT:  Working to get my book out to the fans, so you'll get a short answer. It's covered in the book, forthcoming. Stay tuned.

Like someone other than the author best does the editing of a book, someone who did not mix the original track best does Mastering. Mastering engineers are a breed unto themselves. I have my favorites and used Artisan for mastering. We mixed on Altec monitors and mastered on JBL monitors. I was at all sessions and OKed the final master LP matrix. A test pressing was made and then Carl signed-off on the final if he liked it. Thus artistic control was maintained, at least with the first issues. A "LP Master Tape" was also made at this time. This tape contained all the EQ and level changes made for the LP matrix, so that any need for a new matrix (due to sales) is a flat transfer from the LP Master Tape. European releases are all made from the LP Master Tape or a copy thereof. Therefore, reissues of the LP and all foreign issues are one or two generations removed from the actual mix master. Re-issues of the new HD digital versions are the work of mastering engineers outside of the group's influence. These remasters usually have analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog steps which renders a sonic signature different from the original, not necessarily bad, but different. If you want to hear the original, you must find a first-issue pressing and reproduce the LP on a completely analog playback system.

~SWD

Thanks.  I was curious because I remember George Harrison commenting that when Capitol got hold of Beatles' masters they tended to compress them.    He wasn't happy but I got the impression that they (the Beatles), had no control over what EMI's sister company did with their productions when they got to the US.
Looking forward to the book. 
Regards

Keith

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Stephen W. Desper]

Stephen - I have a less-than-ideal setup for recording stereo group vocals (or stereo anything for that matter). I have two of the same mic (a rather cheap small diaphragm condenser), but I got them used at a music store and in my naivety I thought with one, the grille was just broken off and they were both unidirectional. Turns out the mic new comes with both a unidirectional capsule and an omnidirectional capsule, and I was ripped off (not really ripped off since I bought on impulse and should have researched it beforehand) of one of each of these, so one of the mics I have is forced to be uni and one omni. I also have another mic by the same brand (Apex) that was about 20 bucks cheaper than the sm58 but essentially a clone of it, from what I was told. I also have an ultra-cheap mic that came from a karaoke machine, doubt that will come of use but thought I'd mention it.

Anyway, there are three of us, but have four part harmony, I was thinking one will record bass vocals separately, then the three of us will record together at a stereo pair. I just can't decide which mics to use since I've got two of the same mics with different polar patterns and one different mic with the same polar pattern as one of the others. I was thinking my best bet with what I have would be to use the sm58 clone and the unidirectional Apex and level the gain between the two. Would this work alright, or would I get much better results selling the two Apexs and saving up for a pair of better (and matched) mics?

On a related note, what about for stereo drums? So far, I've been using the the two condensers as OHs, the karaoke mic in the kick and the sm58 clone on the snare with decent results (when the karaoke mic is generously EQed, that is

Thanks a lot,
Zach

COMMENT:  The recording engineer or mixers job is a subjective analysis. There are no rules. Go with whatever sounds best. Trust your ears. Trust your judgement about how it sounds.   L I S T E N  D E E P L Y.    

~swd

[Phoenix]

Thank you very much, Mr. Desper!

Hey, Glenn!  We've never spoke but I'm been a longtime "fan" and always enjoyed your comments.  Good to see you around these parts again!

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:  I thought this essay was most interesting and wanted to post it for anyone who may be interested in the subject.

Did music come before language?

One of the surprising characteristics of our species is the power that music holds over us. It is often the case that a song can influence our emotional state and day-to-day lives more than the information we glean from articles and books. In Western societies we have lost the sense of the central position that music once occupied in communal life, it is still central in most parts of the world today -- and there is no culture anywhere in the world that does not have music, and in which people do not join together to sing or dance. In fact, some scientists reference what they view as an actual binding of nervous systems in communal music activities -- and view music as a critical instrument of social cohesion in society even if it is a neglected instrument in Western societies. And though it is controversial, it should not be surprising that some scientists believe that in the evolutionary development of humans, music came before language and was a path to the development of language: 

"There are significant similarities between music and language, suggesting at least a common origin. For example, many subtle aspects of language are mediated by regions of the right hemisphere which also mediate the performance and experience of music. Furthermore these right hemisphere regions are the homologues of areas in the left hemisphere that are involved with language production and comprehension -- they are in the 'same' position on the other side of the brain. ...
 
"When it comes to understanding the origins of language, however, there is less agreement, and speculation has followed one of three paths. There are those who believe that music is a useless spin-off, or epiphenomenon, of the development of language; there are those, on the contrary, who believe that language itself developed out of musical communication (a kind of singing); and finally there are those who hold that music and language developed independently but alongside one another, out of a common ancestor, which has been dubbed 'musilanguage'. ...
 
"The evidence of the fossil record is, as I say, that the control of voice and respiration needed for singing apparently came into being long before they would ever have been required by language. But is there any reason, apart from this, why we should adopt the view that music came first?
 
"There are, if nothing else, some indications on the matter. In the first place, the 'syntax' of music is simpler, less highly evolved, than that of language, suggesting an earlier origin. More importantly, observation of the development of language in children confirms that the musical aspects of language do indeed come first. Intonation, phrasing and rhythm develop first; syntax and vocabulary come only later. Newborns are already sensitive to the rhythms of language; they prefer 'infant-directed speech' -- otherwise known as 'baby talk' -- which emphasizes what is called prosody, the music of speech. In response to this, mothers expand the pitch excursions, broaden the repertoire and raise the overall pitch of their speech, as well as slowing the tempo and emphasising its rhythm, as soon as their child is born. Newborn infants can distinguish the timbre and intonation of their mother's voice, and prefer it to any other; and can distinguish the unique intonation of their 'mother' tongue, which again they prefer to others. ...
 
"Ultimately music is the communication of emotion, the most fundamental form of communication, which in phylogeny, as well as ontogeny, came and comes first. Neurological research strongly supports the assumption that 'our love of music reflects the ancestral ability of our mammalian brain to transmit and receive basic emotional sounds: the prosody and rhythmic motion that emerge intuitively from entrainment of the body in emotional expression. ... Presumably such 'mechanisms' were highly important for group survival. They were also likely to have deep roots: 'the deeply emotional stirrings generated by music: writes the influential anthropologist Robin Dunbar, 'suggest to me that music has very ancient origins, long predating the evolution of language.' 
 
"This conclusion has not been universally welcomed. There are a number of reasons, but one stands out, at least as far as concerns geneticists. Developments must demonstrate evolutionary advantage. Language, it is reasoned, gives a huge advantage in the power it confers to its possessor: but what has music to do with power -- what advantage can it yield? It doesn't apparently put you in a position to deliver a knockout blow to the opposition, and doesn't look like a way of pushing your genes. So music has been seen as a pointless 'exaptation' of language: that is to say, an adaptation of a skill, originally developed for its competitive advantage in one area, to a quite different purpose. ... Steven Pinker certainly sees it as [as an irrelevant spin-off], and even suggests that music is as meaningless and self-indulgent as pornography or a taste for fatty food." ...
 
"That we could use non-verbal means, such as music, to communicate is, in any case, hardly surprising. The shock comes partly from the way we in the West now view music: we have lost the sense of the central position that music once occupied in communal life, and still does in most parts of the world today. Despite the fact that there is no culture anywhere in the world that does not have music, and in which people do not join together to sing or dance, we have relegated music to the sidelines of life. We might think of music as an individualistic, even solitary experience, but that is rare in the history of the world. In more traditionally structured societies, performance of music plays both an integral, and an integrative, role not only in celebration, religious festivals, and other rituals, but also in daily work and recreation; and it is above all a shared performance, not just something we listen to passively. It has a vital way of binding people together, helping them to be aware of shared humanity, shared feelings and experiences, and actively drawing them together. In our world, competition and specialisation have made music something compartmentalised, somewhere away from life's core. So Oliver Sacks writes:

'This primal role of music is to some extent lost today, when we have a special class of composers and performers, and the rest of us are often reduced to passive listening. One has to go to a concert, or a church, or a music festival, to recapture the collective excitement and bonding of music. In such a situation, there seems to be an actual binding of nervous systems.'

"But if it should turn out that music leads to language, rather than language to music, it helps us understand for the first time the otherwise baffling historical fact that poetry evolved before prose. Prose was at first known as pezos logos, literally 'pedestrian, or walking, logos', as opposed to the usual dancing logos of poetry. In fact early poetry was sung: so the evolution of literary skill progresses, if that is the correct word, from right-hemisphere music (words that are sung), to right-hemisphere language (the metaphorical language of poetry), to left hemisphere language (the referential language of prose)."

Author: Iain McGilchrist
Title: The Master and His Emissary
Publisher: Yale University Press
Date: Copyright 2009 by Iain McGilchrist
Pages: 102-105


Reference:  >>> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=yo7g7qbab&v=0012h5dFDYJvhllDDVXBfqh7RYlUwthJOf790K-muT-ZJcz7e16ttgrtNWpfO0JMIbb0nstbkcv5muubQPlUbyWqaEF182vjryS9nJ6K_6P3KOPuRhpgSAj0RWv_8dkquVWPS_eCiaJlHA%3D

~swd

[Gregg]

Thanks for sharing that, Stephen.

This is something I have thought about a lot - the power of music and how deeply it affects us. It reminds me of something I recall Carl Wilson saying.... that music is spiritual, and because we are spiritual beings, it affects us very deeply. I believe that very strongly and I think that's why I have such a profound love of the music of the Beach Boys. I believe much of it came from a very spiritual place, and as a result, it affects the listener on a spiritual level. It's not just frivolous ear candy.

Consequently, I don't care much for this Steven Pinker mentioned in the essay. 

-Gregg

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:
The website swdstudyvideos.com will be off-line for several weeks due to re-construction.

The site will return with all the previous study-videos plus a study-video version of
Recording The Beach Boys (Part One).    ~swd

[pixletwin]

Cool. Can't wait to see the new site and hear the new lessons.

[grillo]

I'm looking forward to this at least, no more, than I did for MIC! Thanks in advance, Stephen.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:

The entertainment industry has lost a great man.

Ray Dolby is a personal hero.

Last week, Ray passed away at 80, two years into retirement.

Early in his career, Ray helped invent the videotape recorder.

He went on to invent Dolby Noise Reduction in 1965 (although he didn't file the patent until 1969!)

He brought the sound industry, going many wrong directions, into focus with Surround Sound 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 -- the standards by which we all hear and enjoy movies today.

A billionaire American engineer and inventor.

CNET said of him, "Ray Dolby changed the way we hear sound."

The company never stopped innovating, and while Dolby Labs isn't a tech giant like Sony or Apple, the wide scale adoption of Dolby technology has changed the way almost everyone listens to music or movies

You see, Ray never tried to build a "Dolby Radio" or "Dolby Receiver".

Instead, he licensed his technology widely. This turned his invention into a true industry standard, a household name.

In the analog world of my time there were several Dolby schemes being marketed. I liked one and used it, but Alan liked another type of DNR, and recorded using it. So all the Dolby channels had to be changed for Alan's productions. Sixteen channels of Dolby Noise Reduction units to switch, test, and align. But, it was Dolby or noise.

Thank you, Ray Dolby, for touching all our lives in a positive way and truly making possible

Good Listening !   ~Stephen W. Desper


The New York Times on Ray Dolby >>>
 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/business/ray-dolby-who-put-moviegoers-in-the-middle-is-dead-at-80.html?_r=0