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Author Topic: The Stephen Desper Thread  (Read 422651 times)
brother john
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« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2006, 03:47:12 AM »

Comment to Brother John --

I like the sound of the Andrew Sandoval and Dan Hersch 2000 release best -- over and above the first one I sat in on.  ~swd

Stephen, which is the CD release of Sunflower that you like the best? I have two - the one that accompanies the Surf's Up release mentioned above, and a 'onefer' remastered by Joe Gastwirt and released in I think 1991. There is a difference in the sound of the two, notably in Brian's backgrounds in the breakdown of This Whole World, which seem to have a more pierceing treble to them on the Sandoval Hersch release. I also have an EMI Stateside Brother LP (SSLA 8251) though sadly I have no equpiment to listen to it on.

Thanks,

bj
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2006, 06:18:36 AM »

Comment to Brother John --

I like the sound of the Andrew Sandoval and Dan Hersch 2000 release best -- over and above the first one I sat in on.  ~swd

Stephen, which is the CD release of Sunflower that you like the best? I have two - the one that accompanies the Surf's Up release mentioned above, and a 'onefer' remastered by Joe Gastwirt and released in I think 1991. There is a difference in the sound of the two, notably in Brian's backgrounds in the breakdown of This Whole World, which seem to have a more pierceing treble to them on the Sandoval Hersch release. I also have an EMI Stateside Brother LP (SSLA 8251) though sadly I have no equpiment to listen to it on.

Thanks,

bj

I like the 2000 release over the 1991 release.  I worked on the 1991 release.  Sometimes someone else can improve on your own work.  Like, don't proof read your own writing.  I think also that that the A to D converters had greatly iimproved in the nine years between the two releases.

I'd say the authentic version is on Reprise Records LP # RS 6453 and if you can find a matrix number 31237 it will be one of the Artisan originals.  (The matrix number is hand written on the land between the leadout groove.)

None of them sound complete unless heard through the matrix of 360Surround.  Hope you have one.
  ~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2006, 06:23:14 AM »

Question for Brother John --

In your signature line you say, "Religion is a privilege, not a right."  Wouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution make it the other way around?
~swd 
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brother john
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« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2006, 07:27:33 AM »

Question for Brother John --

In your signature line you say, "Religion is a privilege, not a right."  Wouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution make it the other way around?
~swd 

I haven't read the 1st Amendment, so I can't comment. I'm English, so naturally don't subscribe to it. I didn't put the comment in to annoy or offend anyone, but it saddens me to see so much hate and mistrust in this world, much of which is based on interpretations of worthy religious texts of the past. There is a huge gap in understanding between the East and the West right now, and the voices riased the loudest in condeming other people's beliefs seem to come from those who use religion to defend their views. Martin Amis, our great English writer and novelist, once said (I paraphrase, but it was a short quote) 'Religion is fine in the home, but don't bring it out onto the street.' That I do subscribe to.

bj

PS If anyone has an issue with this, please take it to the Sandbox. This is a thread for discussing the beautiful music of the Beach Boys.
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brother john
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« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2006, 07:33:29 AM »

Thanks for the Sunflower info Stephen.

I don't have a Matrix 360Surround. I've toyed with the idea, but have yet to make a commitment to buying one. Feel free to persuade me here, though! Wink Sunflower is one of my very favourite records, and I guess anything that will imprive the listening experieice would be worth having!

bj

P.S. I have your book though (but I guess you know that! Roll Eyes)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 07:50:37 AM by brother john » Logged

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NimrodsSon
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« Reply #80 on: January 03, 2006, 08:17:19 AM »

I'd say the authentic version is on Reprise Records LP # RS 6453 and if you can find a matrix number 31237 it will be one of the Artisan originals.  (The matrix number is hand written on the land between the leadout groove.)

The matrix number on my copy is RS-1-6453-LW1 and then RS-2-6453-LW1 on side 2. Do you have any idea what this means in terms of which pressing it is and what generation of tapes were used, etc.?
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« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2006, 08:38:02 AM »

Brother John - buy one!  Even to my non-dog ears, it makes a difference in the sound - even of non-matrix recordings.  What it does to Stephen's BB recordings is amazing - it opens everything up, lets you hear SO much more - - if you have the extra cash, it's well worth the investment!
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« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2006, 09:10:14 AM »

Thanks for the advice Susan. Maybe I should pop over to Stephen's site and take another look at his blurb.

Stephen - are they still available, and do you have a link?

john
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 09:17:49 AM by brother john » Logged

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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #83 on: January 03, 2006, 09:20:54 AM »

Question for Brother John --

In your signature line you say, "Religion is a privilege, not a right."  Wouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution make it the other way around?
~swd 

I haven't read the 1st Amendment, so I can't comment. I'm English, so naturally don't subscribe to it. I didn't put the comment in to annoy or offend anyone, but it saddens me to see so much hate and mistrust in this world, much of which is based on interpretations of worthy religious texts of the past. There is a huge gap in understanding between the East and the West right now, and the voices riased the loudest in condeming other people's beliefs seem to come from those who use religion to defend their views. Martin Amis, our great English writer and novelist, once said (I paraphrase, but it was a short quote) 'Religion is fine in the home, but don't bring it out onto the street.' That I do subscribe to.

Well, that puts a different light on things.  England has a state religion and that was one of the primary reasons for the colonies coming to and forming America -- to get away from government sactioned belief systems.  Here is the 1st amendment of the US Constitution:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
.


~swd

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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #84 on: January 03, 2006, 09:24:25 AM »

Thanks for the advice Susan. Maybe I should pop over to Stephen's site and take another look at his blurb.

Stephen - are they still available, and do you have a link?

john

No longer available.  If you don't mind waiting on my time table, I could make a copy of SU and SF from a CD or LP through the matrix to a CD, so you would, at least, have that. ~swd
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« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2006, 10:10:23 AM »

Stephen - Did you find out any further info on that interesting vocals-only mix of "Sail On Sailor" you discovered a couple of months back? The lead vocal sounded the same as Blondie Chaplin's lead on the 1973 release version, but you believed your tape dated from 1971. As always, thanks for your enlightening info and opinions.
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« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2006, 11:18:06 AM »

Thanks for the advice Susan. Maybe I should pop over to Stephen's site and take another look at his blurb.

Stephen - are they still available, and do you have a link?

john

No longer available.  If you don't mind waiting on my time table, I could make a copy of SU and SF from a CD or LP through the matrix to a CD, so you would, at least, have that. ~swd

Stephen, you are a star of the highest order!!

I would be absolutely thrilled with the above. Wow! Why don't you PM me (or email me at john.tozer@virgin.net) with what you'd need from me (address, obviously...). Thankyou so much for that very kind gesture.

If the 360 availability situation ever changes I'm sure you'd let us know here...

Thanks again,

john
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« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2006, 11:54:42 AM »

If it's possible to do that (make a CD of the albums as played through the matrix), why hasn't been released like that already? It seems that that would make a really interesting release, not to mention the most "official" way of hearing it aside from using the matrix itself. I guess it wasn't possible to do that in the 70s?
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2006, 02:20:16 PM »

If it's possible to do that (make a CD of the albums as played through the matrix), why hasn't been released like that already? It seems that that would make a really interesting release, not to mention the most "official" way of hearing it aside from using the matrix itself. I guess it wasn't possible to do that in the 70s?

It was possible to cut an LP with the surround decoded in virtual dimension. I proved it to W7 engineering back then, but the engineer in the cutting room was up for retirement in a few months and did not wish to extend his neck out for something unique. Then I approach Capitol for re-issues on CD. Gave a demo which they loved, but the decision was to pass because the public was already use to the way the stereo relesase sounded.  Someone told me that it was suggested that it be part of the 5.1 re-mix as a seperate surround matrix 2-track on the same DVD, but that was also passed on. Through the years I've tried to get the major record companies to release in the original form but the same problem is cited, change of sound will confuse the public. So that is when I decided to offer the matrix itself to the fans for a limited time.  Those who bought are enjoying the sound.  What can I say.  I did not make anything on each device, in fact toward the end it was costing me money to make them. I checked with my lawyer to see if I could release each album as passed through the matrix, but there is some legal problem with that unless you send me the CD and I copy it.  But that's a lot of trouble to go through so I forgot that idea.  It's really a shame because the album does sound completed when passed through the matrix plus the mix is as Carl heard it in virtual surround and not a re-mix in 5.1. With all due respect to the many talents of Mark who did the 5.1 version, it sounds OK, but it's not what we did back when it was mixed through the matrix.  I like that version best, as I'm certain you would also upon hearing.The inside of the sound field is filled with sonic imaging and not just the perimeter of the sound field. Also the bass management is true to the original mix.  In 5.1 this can be a blessing or a curse due to the nature of the system. As I suggested to Brother John, I can make a copy through the matrix for you, but remember that I've got to go through a DtoA convertor on the way to the analog matrix and back again from the matrix to an AtoD convertor. My digital matrix is rented to a studio in Canada so I've got to use the analog version. If you don't mind that, believe me, the matrixed version will be the one you play most often.   ~swd
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« Reply #89 on: January 03, 2006, 02:25:25 PM »

So Stephen, rather than set up the matrix each time I play the CD, I'd be better off copying the CD through the matrix, and then just playing the copy?  The results would be the same (the sound results, that is)?
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #90 on: January 03, 2006, 04:26:09 PM »

So Stephen, rather than set up the matrix each time I play the CD, I'd be better off copying the CD through the matrix, and then just playing the copy?  The results would be the same (the sound results, that is)?
Actually you would do best to plug the matrix in and use it all the time.  There is no setup.  No adjustment. Ask Susan of her experience or anyone else reading this.

The commercial version will be available soon.

Recording through it will yield the same results in playback.
  ~swd
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« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2006, 04:40:43 PM »

Indeed - i hooked it up when i got it, and haven't touched it since.  Muy easy!
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« Reply #92 on: January 03, 2006, 07:31:34 PM »

Stephen,
I'd go for that,too! My email addy is fear2stop@yahoo.com  I'd also like a copy. Just let me know how much it costs and Ill send payment pronto!

I also plan to buy the book,too. I handle the mixing duties for my own group, and I'd like to learn from the master. Sorry about the flattery, but I've always considered your work with the BB to be awesome.

BTW...what other artists have you worked with, and are you still active?
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« Reply #93 on: January 03, 2006, 07:39:56 PM »

The commercial version will be available soon.

Any idea how much that will cost?
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #94 on: January 04, 2006, 08:16:45 AM »

The commercial version will be available soon.

Any idea how much that will cost?

The legal system is hard to work with sometiimes.  I'm thinking out loud here, so let's figure this out.

Did you know that when you buy a CD you only buy the plastic disc, the programming material is owned by the artist/company and licensed to you under implied agreement. I can't make a copy of a CD and sell it. I don't have a license from the artist or record company to do that. Doing such would deny the artist their royalties. I can, however, make a copy of a CD and charge for my services to make the copy, but you must supply the CD. That way there is proof that the artist got paid the royalties due them from the sale of the CD. When you buy a CD you also have the right to make one copy for your own non-commercial use. 

Now in practice, I will make one file in my computer representing a copy (through the matrix) of each CD.  Only two tracks -- side one and side two.  Then upon receipt of your CD and money for services rendered, I would make a CD from my file and enclose it with your CD in a return envelope that you supplied. You are responsible for all shipping and packaging costs. If you prefer to use boxes, use them.   

So let's see, You send me a CD (from the 2000 twofer set) and a self-addressed and stamped envelope and your check.  Then I'll send you back your original CD plus the matrix copy of the CD in the envelope you supply.  You decide the postage costs -- priority is usually $3.00. 

Thinking out loud here.  You could send me the CD in a flat-rate USPS Priority envelope and also enclose a simular flat-rate envelope folded in half with the return address and postage already on the envelope. I add my copy and drop it in the mailbox. 

You see I've got other things going on in my life and I don't have all the time it takes to address envelopes, package CD's, keep records of shipments, etc.  You'd be surprised how long all that takes.  And this is a service which yields very little money for all the trouble it takes. No matter what the cost is, it's more of a courtesy to a die-hard fan than anything.

I'll come up with some figures in a day. 

By the way, the commercial version will be in the neighborhood of $1000.00.  It's aimed at a nitch market and operates on higher voltage rails, uses audiophile quality internal components and is adjustable.  The little 360Surround unit I make for the fans was good enough for most general applications, gave proper sonic results for SU and SF, and served as a test fixture for me to see if any problems came from users.  None surfaced. Never heard any negative comments back. So now I'm proceeeding with the commercial version. 
  ~swd     
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« Reply #95 on: January 04, 2006, 09:07:14 AM »

Yeah, I was referring to the 360 surround thing, not the CD, although if it's going to cost that much, I might just have to get a CD. So there won't be any commercial versions of those matrixes you were selling for $75? Just the improved $1000 one?

By the way, Mr. Desper, how do you handle rattling caused by the bass amplifier when you're recording? Generally, for me, it's not much of a problem, but I'm recording a song at the moment where the bass is very prominent, and it's causing problems. I could, of course, just turn the volume down, but then I'd lose the tone I want. I think it's mainly the walls that are rattling. Is that just something I'll have to deal with when recording in a house?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006, 09:08:58 AM by NimrodsSon » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #96 on: January 04, 2006, 09:35:33 AM »

Yeah, I was referring to the 360 surround thing, not the CD, although if it's going to cost that much, I might just have to get a CD. So there won't be any commercial versions of those matrixes you were selling for $75? Just the improved $1000 one?

By the way, Mr. Desper, how do you handle rattling caused by the bass amplifier when you're recording? Generally, for me, it's not much of a problem, but I'm recording a song at the moment where the bass is very prominent, and it's causing problems. I could, of course, just turn the volume down, but then I'd lose the tone I want. I think it's mainly the walls that are rattling. Is that just something I'll have to deal with when recording in a house?

Studios are usually screwed together.  Houses are generally nailed.  Over time the nails loose their strength.  If it's the dry-wall sheets rattling against the studs, drive some dry-wall screws into the wall sheets to tighten them down. Same with floor or ceiling rattles. Doors can also rattle against the frames.  Application of adhesive backed foam insulation will tighten the closed door against the frame.  If its wall hangings that are rattling, place adhesive backed felt discs on the back of the picture frames to stop the vibration. If it's lighting fixtures that are rattling, remove the lamps and put a blanket over the hanging fixtures while you record the bass.  If all that seems too much trouble, get yourself two, three or more padded packing blankets (the type used by movers -- buy at U-haul) and cover the bass amp/speaker and the microphone.  This will not stop the rattles from your recording room but may prevent them from being picked up by the microphone and thus from being heard in the recording. This method may also reduce some of the room sound in the recording, so if you want room sound too let me know as the recording method for doing that is more complex.  Hope that helps.

I have explored all the market levels and prefer the high-end market for this product.
~swd   
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« Reply #97 on: January 04, 2006, 10:33:39 AM »

It turned out it was the air vent. I unscrewed it, slipped a felt disc underneath it, and voilà, problem solved! thanks for the tip!
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #98 on: January 04, 2006, 10:46:24 AM »

It turned out it was the air vent. I unscrewed it, slipped a felt disc underneath it, and voilà, problem solved! thanks for the tip!
Ah yes, the 'ol A/C vent rattle problem. 

Also consider:

The A/C vent has louvers to direct the air.  These louvers cause air vortexes to develop and make noise as the air passes over the louvers or any grill in the vent cover.  Best to remove the entire vent and just have a hole in the ceiling.  If you have problems hearing the fan noise from back up the duct, try this.

Take a 1/2 in thick board at least 4 feet by 4 feet.  Using rope or chains, hang it from the ceiling using four hooks, one at each corner.  Hang the board 12 inches to 18 inches from the ceiling and centered under the A/C outlet.  Next place a fiberglass sheet 6 inches thick and 4 x 4 feet on top of the board and under the vent. Place an old towel on top of the fiberglass sheet to contain the fiberglass fibers. This technique will absorb much of the fan noise while allowing the air to flow into the room.
  ~swd 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006, 10:48:41 AM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
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« Reply #99 on: January 04, 2006, 03:22:09 PM »

Stephen,
Regarding recording basses.
How do you get the bass to sit so well in a mix? Do you use much post-processing on it (compression, EQ)? Do you equalize other instruments frequencies so they don't clash into the bass? How do you get a consistent volume for a bass line that's varied in pitch a lot?
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