The Stephen Desper Thread

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

So did I. It sounded like LP 'static'.

[Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist]

I got them too. Awesome video nonetheless, thank you very much Mr. Desper!

[Don Malcolm]

Thank you so much, Mr. Desper, for sharing that rapturous a capella version of "Break Away" with us! Among the many great group vocals, this one has to be ranked near the very top! And it is a humbling experience to attempt to sing the lead, to be sure. (Of course, the track has been sped up, yes? Which means those of us at home trying to sing along are having to push our range...how much of speed-up in terms of "change in key" are we talking about here? Forgive me if you noted that info in the study-video, I did not see any mention of the specifics of that.)

I'm with Mitchell in surmising that this is the version from Hawthorne--definitely sounds like Brian on the first verse.

I would hope that someone from the group or their "people" might hear your a capella version and seriously consider making it part of the Made in California box set that we all hope to see later this year. It stands on its own brilliantly, and it deserves to be heard by each and every Beach Boy fan.

[brother john]

Stephen, what is the cause of that clicking sound heard during the background vocal only sections of Break Away (not the a cappella mix with lead vocal)?

COMMENT:  Sounds like digital overload, but I don't know for certain. Check your gain along the chain. Anyone else notice clicks?  ~swd

Firstly thanks very much for these - more later.  

Secondly, yes, there are definitely clicks during background vocal parts of Break Away, but not during the backgrounds plus leads. I've tried listening at different volumes, turning down the volume on both my laptop and my media player, but the clicks remain on those sections.

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:  Thanks to all of you for the feedback. The Break Away Study-Video is now SUSPENDED until we figure out what the clicking problem might be. Neither Will nor myself have heard the clicks on the Internet, but that does not mean the track might have become damaged. When we have a good track to post, it will be back on.     ~swd

[sockittome]

I heard the clicking myself, but I was too dialed into the study to be distracted at all!  Great, great presentation!  One of my favorite BB songs from what seems to generalized by so many folks as a "dark" period in their history. 

Thank you, Mr. Desper!  Whether or not that clicking anomaly is tracked down and corrected, the Break Away tutorial is a vital chapter in your series. 

[leggo of my ego]

No doubt, I can hear some kind of artifact.

I can only discern the "clicking" when the audio is "backgrounds only". The mixes with lead voc. and track
sound fine.

[Stephen W. Desper]

No doubt, I can hear some kind of artifact.

I can only discern the "clicking" when the audio is "backgrounds only". The mixes with lead voc. and track
sound fine.

COMMENT:  Could I ask of you a big favor?  Please find the point in the Study-Video where you hear a click and note the time. Let me know at what time you hear the clicking. I'm asking this of you because in the several playbacks I've made from the Internet, I don't hear any clicks, static or anything that shouldn't be there. So if you can give me a time that would pin it down more.  I'm taking a USB feed from my computer and using an outboard, professional grade D2A converter, taking the analog output from the D2A into an audiophile quality headphone amplifier and listening over Sennheiser HD-600 phones.  In a second test I used a Dell computer and Sony MDR-7506 headphones powered directly from the computer. In both situations I do not hear any clicks or static. Both these machines are wired directly to the Internet so my common equipment is the modem, a Scientific Atlantic model supplied by Brighthouse Networks, and all the other digital stuff within the Internet itself.

Would it be possible that our rendering is just too hot for your service provider, although I've never heard of anything like that. One thing you might try is turning down the output of the video by clicking on the Vimeo speaker and reducing that level. I don't know if that will help or not. I run mine all the way up.

Anyway, by having the time where you hear the click, we can both be on the same page. Maybe we can figure this problem out then.   

Thank you so much!!   ~swd

[Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist]

Dear Mr. Desper,

I am listening on a MacBook Pro with Sennheiser HD280 headphones and I can hear the clicks (but ONLY on a capella sections) starting slightly after 13:00. Some are individual clicks like dust on an LP, but some are rapid and spread across the stereo mix -- *almost* like very loud "brickwalled" music. Quite strange.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Thank you so much, Mr. Desper, for sharing that rapturous a capella version of "Break Away" with us! Among the many great group vocals, this one has to be ranked near the very top! And it is a humbling experience to attempt to sing the lead, to be sure. (Of course, the track has been sped up, yes? Which means those of us at home trying to sing along are having to push our range...how much of speed-up in terms of "change in key" are we talking about here? Forgive me if you noted that info in the study-video, I did not see any mention of the specifics of that.)

I'm with Mitchell in surmising that this is the version from Hawthorne--definitely sounds like Brian on the first verse.

I would hope that someone from the group or their "people" might hear your a capella version and seriously consider making it part of the Made in California box set that we all hope to see later this year. It stands on its own brilliantly, and it deserves to be heard by each and every Beach Boy fan.

COMMENT:  This version of Break Away is the version I recorded and mixed and was targeted as a 45 release. You can see my matrix copy on the Study-Video. It was re-mastered for CD by Mark Linett. It is Capital CD number CDP 7 93697 2. Carl sings the lead on verses and Alan sings lead on the choruses.

The speeding up was done to the track, before any vocals were added.  So try to sing along with the vocals. Those are the actual ranges the singers are singing -- you will need to match Carl's and Alan's range. No speed changes were made to the vocals. And, by the way, the track was speeded up by 1/2 pitch -- that's not much.

 ~swd

[Stephen W. Desper]

Dear Mr. Desper,

I am listening on a MacBook Pro with Sennheiser HD280 headphones and I can hear the clicks (but ONLY on a capella sections) starting slightly after 13:00. Some are individual clicks like dust on an LP, but some are rapid and spread across the stereo mix -- *almost* like very loud "brickwalled" music. Quite strange.

COMMENT:  Thanks for taking the time to find the time of the clicking.  I have reviewed the Study-Video at 13:00 and on. I also listened to the Master File, which is used to render the Study-Video.  I could not hear anything wrong.  Keep in mind that the a cappella and any vocals without tracks is from a cassette copy. A good one, but still a compact cassette. Perhaps you are hearing Dolby tracking or mis-tracking. I just don't know since I don't hear any clicks or static or LP-type noise.

Still waiting to hear from Will C., but I can't fix it if I can't hear it. 

Keep Posted . . .       ~swd

[monicker]

Stephen, with the video not being up anymore there's no way to note the exact times or to more accurately describe the noise, but from what i remember it's a very fast, precise, and rhythmic clicking, similar to the sound of a CD skipping only without actually affecting the playback of the music. It's not really anything resembling LP surface noise in my opinion. I've never really heard this type of noise other than on playback on heavily scratched CDs. It was also fairly loud, about the same volume as the vocals themselves (imagine the sound of a sped-up ticking clock on top of the music). I'll go as far as to say that it's prominent enough that it would be very hard to miss, so if anyone is not hearing it, my guess is that, for whatever reason, they're not experiencing it on their playback.

I was listening through Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones direct into the headphone jack of a Macbook, on the Safari browser. As i said in my first post, it only occurred during the sections of backing vocals alone. The a cappella mix with lead vocals were fine, as was the rest of the audio throughout the video.  

Hope that helps some. And thanks for looking into the issue!

EDIT: Okay, thanks to Cactus' tip below, i heard it again, and my description above wasn't that accurate. It's not quite as loud as the vocals themselves, but it is still pretty prominent/noticeable. It almost sounds like the vocals are pushing into the red and the gain is causing the noise because when there's a rest in the music, the noise stops. Again, the only way i can describe the noise itself is that it sounds like the same thing you might hear if you listen to a cheap CDR that has a lot of light surface scratches rather than deep/heavy scratches, so that there's a constant kind of shuffling, static-y sound that is not actually causing the audio to skip. Sounds like something in the digital domain.  Nothing is affected by adjusting the volume on the Vimeo player.

[Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist]

Stephen, with the video not being up anymore there's no way to note the exact times or to more accurately describe the noise, but from what i remember it's a very fast, precise, and rhythmic clicking, similar to the sound of a CD skipping only without actually affecting the playback of the music. It's not really anything resembling LP surface noise in my opinion. I've never really heard this type of noise other than on playback on heavily scratched CDs. It was also fairly loud, about the same volume as the vocals themselves (imagine the sound of a sped-up ticking clock on top of the music). I'll go as far as to say that it's prominent enough that it would be very hard to miss, so if anyone is not hearing it, my guess is that, for whatever reason, they're not experiencing it on their playback.

I was listening through Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones direct into the headphone jack of a Macbook, on the Safari browser. As i said in my first post, it only occurred during the sections of backing vocals alone. The a cappella mix with lead vocals were fine, as was the rest of the audio throughout the video.  

Hope that helps some. And thanks for looking into the issue!

The video is still up if you're smart with the URL

[Mitchell]

I concur that it's only when there's singing and it sounds digital. I PMd Stephen a link to an mp3 of the sound I made so hopefully my link works and he can hear it to determine the cause.

[Stephen W. Desper]

I concur that it's only when there's singing and it sounds digital. I PMd Stephen a link to an mp3 of the sound I made so hopefully my link works and he can hear it to determine the cause.

COMMENT:  As I emailed you, -- first thanks for taking the time to copy the problem and link -- I played the copy and heard no clicks or noise. Your copy and the track of the Study-Video all sound fine to me. The Study-Video sounds the same as the master file. I'm at a loss to explain this problem, but I'm coming to believe it is a problem with something at your end of the Internet, not any problem with the file at Vimeo.

Obviously, you are hearing a digital anomaly of some kind. You hear it. You make a copy of the anomaly. You play the copy and hear it. You send the file to me. I play it and do not hear any problem, even from your copy. It leads me to conclude that the problem is being generated by some local servers or something. I mean, how can you have this problem and make a copy of the problem -- send it to me and I don't hear any problems, it means the file you sent to me is without problems. But yet, you hear the problems when you make a playback. Sounds to me like the problem is self-generated, but how could that be if other people hear it too? 

What about Cabinessence?  Any clicks there?  If you were listening over speakers, what did you think?  

~swd

[seltaeb1012002]

Hey Stephen, Just wanted to weigh in and say I hear the clicks as well, on the background vocals section (same time as indicated above).

Either way, it's no big deal, as usual I enjoyed the study videos. Thanks for taking the time!

[pixletwin]

I finally got the opportunity and space to really listen to these. I loved them! They were very interesting and informative. Two short comments:

1) My copy also had the clicks during the background excerpts. But it was only during the two (or so) small excerpts so they were easily overlooked. I had never noticed the grunt at the beginning but when it's gone it really looses that immediate punch of energy! That was a great call to keep it in the mix.

2) Maybe this has been brought up before but it seems to me the lead vocals on the first verse are actually the version with Brian's demo vocals spliced in. Am I hearing that wrong?

Cabinessence was also wonderful. Your mix really opens it up aurally. With my eyes closed I could almost picture how an animator might create a short piece based on it. Very cool.

[atroxi]

Outside of the usual 'holy crap that was amazing' comment, I'll state that I had the clicking as well.

Just for fun, I tried downloading what Vimeo marked as the 'original' QuickTime video and loading it up into Final Cut Pro and Adobe Premiere - and got the same thing.  Since it's in video form, my hunch was that editing software might be a bit better at playback as opposed to streaming it.  No dice.

It really sounds like digital clipping to my ears, despite the waveform not being crushed in the final output and no clipped samples being detected.  Audition's 'declicker' got rid of most of it, but not all.

[Mitchell]

Very strange!

I didn't have a chance to listen to Cabinessence yet. Looking forward to it!

[Sam_BFC]

Also had the clicking over hear during the sections described by others (verse background vocals acapella at around 13:00).

Had same issue running Safari on Macbook and Google Chrome on Windows 7 PC.

(Will also take this opportunity to thank Stephen and Will for another cool video.)

[Will C.]

Hey all,

Glad you are enjoying the new video.  Desper and I will be ironing out any problems with the clicking in the Break Away video over the next couple days. For those who have had a chance to check the video out already, what did you think about all the other parts of the video, without the clicks?  "Break Away" is such an incredible tune in the Beach Boys catalogue.  There is one song that inspired me to leave a job of six years, and it's this one!  The uplifting lyrics, the positive vibe in the track, the HEAVENLY vocal blend.  Stephen Desper's personal recollections on the song are exhilarating, as always.

This was the first time I heard him talk about his experience recording with Murry.  His first hand account witnessing the positive energy in The Beach Boys camp as Brian unveiled "Break Away" is just a wonderful situation to hear about.  We all wish we could be a fly on the wall, yet we might have something almost better on this forum.  Steve wasn't only there, he was getting his hands dirty capturing our favorite group and pushing the boundaries of stereo recording to an entirely new realm.  Anytime he opens his mouth and talks about his experiences, it seems like he nonchalantly remembers something that most of us would consider book-worthy.  I assure you, we will converse and iron out what's going on in the "Break Away" video.  In the meantime, I'd love to hear more thoughts on any videos that have been made available so far.  You never know, if there's something you're wondering, Steve may just be able to clear something up and once again nonchalantly blow our collective minds!

[leggo of my ego]

What do you call the proprietary device mentioned in the study-videos?
I assume this isn't something commercially available to the general public?
Is the device similar to what was used in the MIU LP?

I have yet to burn some CDs so I can check these out on my main system
(Emotiva/ Magnepan) but I'm sure it will be worth the effort!

[zachrwolfe]

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[zachrwolfe]

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[leggo of my ego]

What do you call the proprietary device mentioned in the study-videos?
I assume this isn't something commercially available to the general public?
Is the device similar to what was used in the MIU LP?

I have yet to burn some CDs so I can check these out on my main system
(Emotiva/ Magnepan) but I'm sure it will be worth the effort!

I could be wrong but I think Stephen included one with his Recording The Beach Boys book when he was selling it.

I don't have MIU but I have the Christmas songs they revamped from those sessions. Flip Flop Flying (Santas got an airplane) uses that spatial 3-D effect  thingy and I thought this device he mentioned in the video might be that or something similar.

And I wouldn't know that information except the liner notes on the Ultimate Christmas had some details like that.