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Author Topic: The Stephen Desper Thread  (Read 718848 times)
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« Reply #1050 on: May 07, 2010, 04:57:18 AM »

Hi Steve...wondering if you could answer this for me:  what instrument is playing the solo on "San Miguel"?  It kinda sounds like a heavily-processed kazoo.  I used to think it was a Moog synthesizer, but those weren't yet common in January '69, when this song was recorded.
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« Reply #1051 on: June 03, 2010, 12:36:10 PM »

Great reading in this thread, thanks Mr. Desper!
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« Reply #1052 on: June 16, 2010, 09:25:52 PM »

Mister Desper,

My apologies if you've addressed this question here before, but I searched the thread and did not find it here, so here goes:

I'm writing a scholarly article about the history of stereophonic sound. I'm spending some amount of time discussing pseudo-stereo techniques, most notably Capitol's Duophonic mixing. Precious little exists in print -- either in books or journals -- about the technique; the only information I found was from un-official web sites and blogs by anonymous "experts", none of whom I would trust to quote as a source. Would it be possible for you to discuss Duophonic mixing for posterity?

Thanks,
Scott C.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1053 on: July 08, 2010, 06:57:22 AM »

opps
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 07:02:51 AM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1054 on: July 08, 2010, 07:01:17 AM »

Mister Desper,

My apologies if you've addressed this question here before, but I searched the thread and did not find it here, so here goes:

I'm writing a scholarly article about the history of stereophonic sound. I'm spending some amount of time discussing pseudo-stereo techniques, most notably Capitol's Duophonic mixing. Precious little exists in print -- either in books or journals -- about the technique; the only information I found was from un-official web sites and blogs by anonymous "experts", none of whom I would trust to quote as a source. Would it be possible for you to discuss Duophonic mixing for posterity?

Thanks,
Scott C.

COMMENT TO SCOTTYTHERED:  The explanation on Wikipedia seems accurate to me.  
 [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duophonic ]

Any engineer can patch-up a Duophonic type circuit. The problem is keeping it mono compatible when slight delays are used. Early on, Capitol engineers developed their unique technique that overcame those problems through a compromise of settings.

You may also like to check out the listings and articles at the following >>>
>>>[ http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=history+of+stereophonic+sound&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=C43-_v9s1TP6oDaeqgATg1ODJCQAAAKoEBU_Qx3BM ]
~swd
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 07:13:47 AM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
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« Reply #1055 on: July 30, 2010, 10:53:19 AM »

Dear Mr Desper,

I'm a new board member and I'm thrilled to have found this thread with your marvelous insights of a time that, in hindsight, must have been most exciting. I guess The Beach Boys were anything but dull in the late Sixties and early Seventies.
I made an internship in a recording studio in 1982 (it was the time of analog 24 track recordings) in Germany , so I have only little insight myself and some of your described techniques are still in my memories.
I guess you're still editing your book, can't wait until you post the long awaited message: "Book revision is finished!"
Sorry, no question from me this time (reading all these posts makes me speechless with admiration), just wanted to say "thanks" for your time spending on this board

best wishes
Surfing Moose
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 08:57:28 AM by Surfing Moose » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1056 on: August 09, 2010, 04:33:47 PM »

COMMENT:  Had a fall. Broke arm. Hard to type, can't even work on book. Damn!   Will be off this thread for about six weeks. See you all then ...
~swd
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« Reply #1057 on: August 09, 2010, 04:41:53 PM »

Sorry to hear about your fall. Get well soon, Stephen!
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« Reply #1058 on: August 09, 2010, 07:38:59 PM »

looks like us Steve's (my first name is also Stephen) have not had a kind last few weeks.

get well soon...
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1059 on: October 25, 2010, 06:59:21 AM »

COMMENT:

Arm has healed. Typing (and mixing) again.

Good Listening to all
...
     ~Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1060 on: October 25, 2010, 07:18:25 AM »

Glad to hear you're back at it! Lookin' forward to that book!!!!
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« Reply #1061 on: October 25, 2010, 08:54:24 AM »

Nice to see you back, Mr. Desper!
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« Reply #1062 on: October 25, 2010, 02:02:23 PM »

Great news Stephen, nice to see you back! Can't wait for the book to come out!  Cheesy
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« Reply #1063 on: October 25, 2010, 02:18:54 PM »

Good news  Smiley, nice to see you back.
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« Reply #1064 on: October 25, 2010, 08:42:46 PM »

Glad to see you back!  I have a couple questions: what is your opinion of the sound quality difference between the 3M M23, Ampex 440 and Scully 280 models?
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1065 on: October 25, 2010, 09:42:11 PM »

Glad to see you back!  I have a couple questions: what is your opinion of the sound quality difference between the 3M M23, Ampex 440 and Scully 280 models?

COMMENT TO DONNYL:

What an interesting question!  The 3M is without question the most technically advanced design, and the machine was well made too. I liked it over the others because it had the least noise, tape noise. If you set it up for the dual-dynamic tracking, it was a quiet as digital. Since I did a fair number of ping-pongs, noise was a very important issue.

The 3M had the least amount of coloration. It was the truest sound.  The Ampex gave a clear and clean sound too, but good with strings and more classical recording. The Scully 280 always good with R&B with a ballsy sound. Seemed to round out the bottom of the sound that has good play on AM radios.

These sound differences are all very slight. Of the opened loop tape systems the Ampex handled tape best with Scully a little less refined. But the closed loop design of the 3M was quite the advancement. A very superior design.

Here is an interesting story about the 3M machine from the History of Recorded Music...

"The Beatles were often frustrated in the studio– mainly because they were quick to change–they wanted to stay ahead of other groups with new sounds and new techniques. The Beatles had been using 4-track recording for many years, and American musicians (and some English groups like the Rolling Stones) had already begun using new 8-track recorders. The Beatles were left waiting for one.

Many months later, Abbey Road finally received a new 8-track recorder, specially shipped from America. This was a 3M model M23 recorder, capable of 8 separate parts on the tape. While the Beatles were extremely anxious to use it - this memo states that the new recorder has been “rejected” for the new 1968 Beatles sessions (for The White Album) by their own producer - George Martin. This was a crushing defeat for the Beatles at the time - they had an 8-track machine in the building but were not allowed to use it!

However, George Martin and the technical staff had determined that the new 8-track machine could not do the “tricks” possible on the older 4-track machines, like phasing and ADT.  So, it was taken away for nearly half a year to be modified as the Beatles sessions needed. Eventually, the Beatles were annoyed by the long delay and commanded their staff to sneak in the middle of the night and “steal” the 8-track machine! It was then used on their session for “While My Guitar Gently Weeps.”  After nearly being fired for this, the staff were then allowed to continue limited use of the 8-track on the sessions; simply because the Beatles were powerful and important to EMI Records."



I would type more but this software for posting is screwed up.[/
size]

~swd
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« Reply #1066 on: October 26, 2010, 09:13:27 AM »

thanks for the info and opinion!  i am on the hunt for a 1" 8-track to replace my teac 80-8.  i have basically narrowed it down to the 3M m23 or Scully 280.  i have an Ampex 440 mono machine that i mix to, so i thought it would be better for variety to get a different deck.  its probably going to be the 3M but i do like a bit of "character" or colorization.  the 440 imparts a nice warm punch on anything i put through it.

(PS i also used "new old stock" Scotch 202 tape stock from the '60s for mixdown ... it runs better than new tape!)
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1067 on: October 26, 2010, 09:30:16 PM »

thanks for the info and opinion!  i am on the hunt for a 1" 8-track to replace my teac 80-8.  i have basically narrowed it down to the 3M m23 or Scully 280.  i have an Ampex 440 mono machine that i mix to, so i thought it would be better for variety to get a different deck.  its probably going to be the 3M but i do like a bit of "character" or colorization.  the 440 imparts a nice warm punch on anything i put through it.

(PS i also used "new old stock" Scotch 202 tape stock from the '60s for mixdown ... it runs better than new tape!)
 

COMMENT TO DONNL:

I think you would prefer the 3M/Ampex combo rather than the Scully/Ampex combo.  The bass resonance bumb of the Scully's headstack will combine with the Ampex's bumb to be too much of a good thing ... if you get my meaning. 

The 3M is like a fine meal whereas the Scully is more meat and potatos.

The 3M will be the most stable of the three. That is, the levels and EQ adjustments will maintain their settings over time better than the Ampex and certainly better than the Scully.

Damn it!!! there is something wrong with this software. It jumps all over the place making typing a drag.

One more thing.  The distance between the record and playback heads on the 3M is longer than on the Ampex or Scully.  So tape echo tricks you might be use to will not be possible on the 3M. However you can get interesting effects by taking sound from the playback and record head during mixdowns.

Damn it !!  I am typing blind \. This software , smileysmile.nnet software is screwed up!!

Please get if fixed.  Thanks.
  ~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1068 on: October 26, 2010, 09:46:09 PM »

thanks for the info and opinion!  i am on the hunt for a 1" 8-track to replace my teac 80-8.  i have basically narrowed it down to the 3M m23 or Scully 280.  i have an Ampex 440 mono machine that i mix to, so i thought it would be better for variety to get a different deck.  its probably going to be the 3M but i do like a bit of "character" or colorization.  the 440 imparts a nice warm punch on anything i put through it.

(PS i also used "new old stock" Scotch 202 tape stock from the '60s for mixdown ... it runs better than new tape!)

COMMENT TO DONNYL:

Your Scotch 202 will also fair better on the 3M. The only tension on the tape is in the loop around the heads, whereas with Ampex/Scully tension is applied through the entire supply wind through the capstand. On the 3M all the supply and takeup motors do is wind the tape. All head pressure is a function of the closed loop, and is very consistant. It does not rely on springs (passive) to apply pressure, but rather on the slight difference in diameter between the in and out groves of the capstands (active).


Now I'm blind typing again.....[/
size]
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1069 on: October 26, 2010, 10:00:16 PM »

thanks for the info and opinion!  i am on the hunt for a 1" 8-track to replace my teac 80-8.  i have basically narrowed it down to the 3M m23 or Scully 280.  i have an Ampex 440 mono machine that i mix to, so i thought it would be better for variety to get a different deck.  its probably going to be the 3M but i do like a bit of "character" or colorization.  the 440 imparts a nice warm punch on anything i put through it.

(PS i also used "new old stock" Scotch 202 tape stock from the '60s for mixdown ... it runs better than new tape!)

COMMENT TO DONNL:

Also it's easy to make the 3M have variable speed for effects.  Use a power amp of 150 Watts or so with an oscillator connected to it set at 60 Hz for normal speed. Vary the frequency of the oscillator and the motor will follow. Of course, only power the tape loop motor from the amp, not the supply or takeup motors. The ability to adjust speed comes in handy when you can't quite reach that note. Just reduce the speed by one or two keys and hit the note. Maybe do a punch-in. Then playback at normal speed. Impress everyone with your guitar playing ability's by slowing down the recorder to play those hard to hit runs, then at normal playback speeds you become an amazing guitarist! 

Can't type anymore as I can't see what I'm typing.
~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #1070 on: October 26, 2010, 10:08:00 PM »

SOMEONE FIX THE SOFTWARE PLEASE !!  ~swd
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« Reply #1071 on: October 27, 2010, 12:16:29 AM »

Hey Stephen,

Are you using a new internet browser or some different settings then last time? Nothing has changed on the board, and both the quick reply and regular reply look exactly the same to me as it did for the last few years.

Take care
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« Reply #1072 on: October 27, 2010, 12:31:40 AM »

I think I understand Stephen's problem. As I'm probably having the same problem for a while on my home PC. It might be a setting on the PC itself, but I don't know how to change those settings right away.

What happens is that, if one starts typing so much text that it doesn't fit within the frame (and you have to scroll to read your writings) the text starts to center vertically. One can see 10 lines within this frame. So if - for instance - you have typed down 20 lines, you don't see the top 5 and lower 5 lines of text. You can scroll down, but type one letter and automatically  teh text centers again (and you don't see what you're typing.

(does anyone understand at all what I mean now  Roll Eyes  )

I assume there's an easy solution for this, but I wouldn't know how to fix it.



O, and welcome back, Steve!
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Check out the Beach Boys Starline website, the place for pictures of many countries Beach Boys releases on 45.

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« Reply #1073 on: October 27, 2010, 08:56:33 AM »

thanks for thorough info!  I am looking forward to the recording the beach boys book when you have it available … I missed out on the original edition! 
 
The teac 80-8 has a something of a mushy head bump as well; the ampex actually tightens it up a bit when mixing down.   I do a lot of ping pong (bouncing) as well, so it can become an issue without low cutting everything or keeping tape levels fairly low.
 
I’m gonna take your advice and go for the 3M … my neighbor has an M23 for sale but its in another state, so getting it over here to Austin, TX is not gonna be an easy task, but I think we’ll be able to get it together!
 
have you seen this you tube clip?  its a capitol promo for "i can hear music" ... if you watch closely, you can see yourself manning the board while the M23 spins tape in the background:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWOsX5g1Gho&feature=related

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« Reply #1074 on: October 27, 2010, 09:17:53 AM »

The quality of that tape is a bit rough - I know a chunk of that film was used in American Band in better quality, but I don't have that in front of me! Anyway, here are a few screenshots of interest to this thread...and referring to the "Brian's Home Studio" thread from a few weeks ago, this film is a great document of that setup. Lots o' Neumanns on that session!

At 1:28, look to the right of the frame and there is Brian's famous Baldwin Theater Organ, the same white one that survived the Hawaii trip and the Smiley sessions...



A familiar face on the job...



And I'm sure the answer is already posted here and my apologies for being too lazy to scroll through, but what kind of board was this shown in the clip?





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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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