Sign the petition to include Blondie and Ricky in the 2012 Reunion!

[Aegir]

Additionally, we have a cast of dozens of surviving people who have contributed to the legacy in various ways: Blaine, Kaye, & other Crew members, Asher, Parks, Hinche, Dragon, Carter, Blondie, Ricky, Foskett, Stamos, Sahanaja, Totten, and many others.  Can they all be on stage at some point during 2012?  It would be cool if they were, but it's unrealistic, isn't it?

Okay, but only two of those people were actually members of the Beach Boys. Blondie and Ricky.

[PongHit]

only two of those people were actually members of the Beach Boys. Blondie and Ricky.

So what?  That distinction doesn't seem to hold much water now — as I said, when the decision was made to add Blondie/Ricky as members, the intention must have been for it to last longer than a couple years.  Had they remained in the band for, say, 10 years or so, maybe the notion of them becoming 'full time' members would carry more weight now.  And we probably wouldn't need to conduct this debate.  As Mikie just pointed-out, others were more important, and for much, much longer:

Meros was with the band from 1979 to 2001, 22 years! Kawalski was the Beach Boys drummer and percussionist from 1968 to 2007, 39 years! Carter played guitar live and on the records from 1968 to the late 90's (30 years), Hinsche for 20 years, and Figueroa for 12 years.  So these guys shouldn't be ignored - they were an integral part of the live (and recording) band for a lotta years!

[Aegir]

David wasn't in the band for 10 years. Hal Blaine was a paid session musician. you can argue that Hal Blaine was more important than Brian, he probably played on more tracks.

[PongHit]

David wasn't in the band for 10 years.

Doesn't matter — David grew-up with the Wilsons, learned guitar with Carl, signed the original Capitol deal, and played on the classic first 4-5 albums.

Hal Blaine was a paid session musician.

They all got paid!

you can argue that Hal Blaine was more important than Brian, he probably played on more tracks.

  Me? No, I'll leave that argument for you to make.

[b00ts]

David wasn't in the band for 10 years.

Doesn't matter — David grew-up with the Wilsons, learned guitar with Carl, signed the original Capitol deal, and played on the classic first 4-5 albums.

Hal Blaine was a paid session musician.

you can argue that Hal Blaine was more important than Brian, he probably played on more tracks.

  Me? No, I'll leave that argument for you to make.

Doesn't matter - Ricky and Blondie were hand-picked by Carl, made into full members of the band, and played (AND wrote!) on two of the BB's classic 70s albums, as well as tons of live shows during the band's resurgence. Also, Blondie sang lead on one of the group's biggest hits of the 70s.

[PongHit]

Doesn't matter

What doesn't matter?

[PongHit]

Ricky and Blondie were hand-picked by Carl...

We all know the above — are you just trying to string this thread (that you started) along for a long as you can? Look: I've said this over & over again — Ricky/Blondie are cool by me, but they're only 2 of a batch of dozens of comparable people who also deserve to be involved somehow.

[Aegir]

They're also the only two surviving actual "Beach Boys" who are not in the reunion.

[PongHit]

They're also the only two surviving actual "Beach Boys" who are not in the reunion.

They ceased being "Beach Boys" nearly 40 years ago, or we wouldn't be talking about this.

[Jim V.]

Well....David Marks ceased being a "Beach Boy" in like 1999 or whatever. And as far as being a real band that puts out new albums, he was last a Beach Boy in like 1963 (?) so if he wasn't included would you say the same?

And Brian and Alan haven't being in the touring band since 1996 or 1997 (?) respectively so does that not make Brian a Beach Boy for the last 15 years? Or does his being partner in BRI invalidate that? I'm serious with these questions too.

[PongHit]

if he wasn't included would you say the same?

I've already addressed this — should be obvious anyway.

I'm serious with these questions too.

You'd like to debate if Brian Wilson or Al should be part of the 50th thing?  I see why you need to specify you are "serious."

[Mike's Beard]

F*ck it, Brian and Al out - Blondie and Ricky in. 

[PongHit]

F*ck it, Brian and Al out - Blondie and Ricky in. 

YESSSSS! I'm so glad The Return of the Son of Mike's Beard has returned!

[Jim V.]

I'm not debating whether Brian or Al shouldn't be part, I'm debating the fact of whether they have or haven't been "Beach Boys" for the past 15 years, because your reasoning is that Blondie and Ricky haven't been Beach Boys for almost 40 years so they shouldn't be involved. I don't think it matters WHEN they were Beach Boys. They were Beach Boys on recorded albums, and live. I don't understand the argument against them that has David Marks in, but them out. Just seems odd.

[PongHit]

your reasoning is that Blondie and Ricky haven't been Beach Boys for almost 40 years so they shouldn't be involved.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all! As I've said numerous times, I'd love to see Blondie/Ricky involved.  And my comment about '40 years' was to indicate that they were BBoys, not are...

They were Beach Boys on recorded albums, and live. I don't understand the argument against them that has David Marks in, but them out.

Adding Blondie/Ricky opens a can of worms — what about Hinche, Carter, et al?  They also were on recorded albums, and live, and for much, much longer.

Marks was there from the beginning (& before the beginning), signed the original Capitol contract, and recorded on classic 1960s material that will live forever — big difference.  Some people who apparently agree with me include Brian Douglas Wilson, Michael Love, Alan Jardine, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, Capitol Records, and all their associated parties.

[drbeachboy]

There is a big difference. Blondie and Ricky were official members. The old backing band were just that, the backing band.

[PongHit]

Blondie and Ricky were official members.

OK, I'll DO IT AGAIN: Blondie/Ricky being 'official,' briefly, apparently doesn't mean much now.  Nearly 40 years ago, when the decision was made to add them as members, the plan must have been for it to last longer than 2 years.  Had they remained in the band a lot longer, maybe the notion of them becoming 'full time' members would carry more weight now.

[Jim V.]

I totally see what you are saying PongHit, but it just seems like your rules are kinda arbitrary.

What you are saying, however, is probably what Brian, Mike and Al might be thinking. It's very possible.

But I'm not looking at it from that perspective. I'm looking at it from the perspective that both of these guys were fully in the band and made some great music with the band, and therefore should be part of the group.


But I will also say that beyond all else it is up to Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl's estate. Whoever they want in the group is fine with me. However, my only thing is I'm sure if somebody asked Brian Wilson or Alan Jardine if they thought it'd be cool if Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar rejoined the group, they'd be cool with it.

I honestly think it is an oversight, and that Blondie and Ricky just don't get thought of. It's obvious that they were totally cool with David joining, and I don't think they originally excluded him out of any malicious intent. I think they are just used to the basic Beach Boys being Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, with Carl and Dennis being deceased members. I don't think they had a meeting and somebody said "Should Blondie and Ricky be part of the reunion?" and they had a yea or nay vote. I just don't think Brian Wilson really ever concerns himself with who was in the band. Which is why I think it is good that it is being brought to light.

[PongHit]

I totally see what you are saying PongHit, but it just seems like your rules are kinda arbitrary.

They're not my rules, and they're not arbitrary.

It totally makes sense that the "50th Celebration" BBoys are: Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, & Bruce. 

If, during a live concert, or TV special, or whatever, any of the many other major players can be added, that would be a nice bonus.  But the notion of Blondie/Ricky 'rejoining the band' is silly, and it ain't gonna happen. 

It's that simple.

[Jim V.]

I totally see what you are saying PongHit, but it just seems like your rules are kinda arbitrary.

They're not my rules, and they're not arbitrary.

It totally makes sense that the "50th Celebration" BBoys are: Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, & Bruce. 

If, during a live concert, or TV special, or whatever, any of the many other major players can be added, that would be a nice bonus.  But the notion of Blondie/Ricky 'rejoining the band' is silly, and it ain't gonna happen. 

It's that simple.

I know it's probably not gonna happen, but your grouping Blondie and Ricky together which "other major players" is bullsh*t to me. I don't know how many times it has to be said, they weren't just major players, they were Beach Boys, unlike Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, or a number of other fine gentleman who worked for The Beach Boys, and it is an insult to them as people and musicians that many here can not accept that they were full fledged Beach Boys.

How does Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, and Bruce make more sense than Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, Bruce, Blondie, and Ricky though? The Beach Boys lineup never had Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, and Bruce in it at the same time, so it's not like it's really true to the "group who recorded 'Surfin' years ago"  band, nor is it equivalent to the Pet Sounds/Smile band. It's just guys that happened to be in the band who are all still living. And even though one guy was onlly in the band from like '62 to '64, he is ESSENTIAL, but the guys who helped keep the band alive from '72 to '73 and '74, and one whose lead vocals who are on a classic hit record aren't included. I would not have this argument if the "reunion" lineup was just Brian, Al, and Mike, but with Bruce and David being there, it just makes the no Blondie and Ricky argument trickier, because people can rationalize it however they want, but those guys were in the band, whether they accept it or not. And some have admittedly had trouble accepting it, which is odd to be honest.

[PongHit]

some have admittedly had trouble accepting it, which is odd to be honest.

1: Is your use of "odd," which you've done at least twice so far, intended to imply possible racism?

2: They have trouble accepting it for logical reasons, which are obvious to most people.

3: Yes, the plan and *intention* at the time was for Blondie/Ricky to become members, 'forever,' but things didn't work-out that way.  Therefore their special distinction hasn't held much water since they left in 1973-'74.  That's how lots o' peeps apparently see it, including the powers that be.  And that perspective is not 'bullsh*t' just because you want to view it differently.

[drbeachboy]

some have admittedly had trouble accepting it, which is odd to be honest.

1: Is your use of "odd," which you've done at least twice so far, intended to imply possible racism?

Even though you say you want them included, it is clear that the fact they were official Beach Boys seems not to matter that much to you. To me that is odd, considering you seem to give more credence to adding former backing band members. Why would you bring up racism? You have never brought that to the conversation. I guess we all have our odd ways of what things we consider important and unimportant.

[PongHit]

you seem to give more credence to adding former backing band members.

Nope, not more nor less, in general — it would depend on the specific people we're talking about — for example, I'd estimate Hinche contributed & continues to contribute more, & for much longer, to BBland than Blondie/Ricky did.  And clearly Carl's & Dennis's commitment/dedication to, & relationship with Hinche was as intense, if not more so, than Blondie/Ricky — they invited Hinche to be 'official' too.

Why would you bring up racism?

Have you read this entire thread?  It was brought-up before, and not by me.

[drbeachboy]

you seem to give more credence to adding former backing band members.

Nope, not more nor less, in general — it would depend on the specific people we're talking about — for example, I'd estimate Hinche contributed & continues to contribute more, & for much longer, to BBland than Blondie/Ricky did.  And clearly Carl's & Dennis's commitment/dedication to, & relationship with Hinche was as intense, if not more so, than Blondie/Ricky — they invited Hinche to be 'official' too.

Why would you bring up racism?

Have you read this entire thread?  It was brought-up before, and not by me.

Racism was never brought up by Jim or myself. Plus, none of your arguments for or against had any inference to it. The argument is, whether all living official members, past and present should be included in the reunion.

[PongHit]

The argument is, whether all living official members, past and present should be included in the reunion.

Would it be cool if Blondie/Ricky were included?  Sure!  But I think the debate should be more like 'to what extent?'

Why do you think they've been overlooked thus far?