The Smiley Smile Message Board

I made a petition asking BRI include Blondie and Ricky to some extent in the 2012 reunion. I know many of you will scoff at this, but it only takes a minute of your time to sign a petition. If you love and/or respect Blondie and Ricky's work with the Boys, don't be a lazy asshole. Just sign it.

In a best-case scenario, it could show BRI that a large number of fans want to see these full-fledged members in the reunion. In a worst-case scenario, it will at least show Blondie and Ricky how much we value them as Beach Boys, even if BRI does not.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/blondieandricky/

I initially read this as "Rocky". Yeah.

b00ts, did you even sign the petition? I seem to be the only signature on there so far.

I did sign.
But be aware that in case this should work out in any way, it has to go to Bros. records soon enough to get in contact with Blondie and Ricky

I signed it! Now where is the petition to NOT include Stamos?

I'd sign that one.  :hat

 

On the other hand, if only a handful of people sign( say, less than 5000), it will send a message that not enough people really care whether they're involved.

I'd like Rocky to be involved.  Flying high now.

I just signed it and had the girlfriend sign it.   Now I'm going to go encourage a couple of other fellow Beach Boys fans to sign it.

Good one, b00ts!

Let me know when it gets close tp 5000 and I'll sign it

You're worse than Phil Cohen, Bgas.   Absolutely the number one poster with a negative attitude on this board.

Signed it!

For some reason, the first time didn't go through. Second time did.

Great, insightful, salient point. That would be far worse than the way things are right now. Let's all sign a petition disavowing this petition!

I'd sign a petition for Rocky Pamplin to get kicked in the nuts.

I'm in.

Add one more to the list B00ts

Signed

How do you check that it goes through ?

No worries I saw an email come through.
By the way weren't Ricky and Blondie in the BBs longer than Dave ?

Signed. Though it seems only fair that if Carl's Brother Records protoges are included, Mike's should be also. I'm starting a petition for the Pickle Brothers...

Done !

I signed of course, Blondie and Ricky rule!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDKow9kcpU

The PB's from the Spring 1967 tour....You are funny!  ;)

Kidding aside, this is starting to look like the "tail wagging the dog..."

The Boys will decide who plays or doesn't, based on their performance, experience and ability to create a "workable" and not unwieldy ensemble.   A lot of people sounded brilliant on Sail on Sailor, particularly Carl. I have seen  Brian do the lead with great audience reception, and I like Billy Hinsche on lead, with the band for about 25 years, and hope he makes the cut, both with his film background, academically (as well as musically in the academic context) and for the Carl and Dennis historian aspect.  (When I saw Blondie with the Stones I jumped out of my seat - delighted that old Mick had such good taste, as to hire a Beach Boys vocalist.)

If I were asked (and I wasn't ) and stepped back looking at each of the bands, all of whom I have seen, live, I might look for Nelson Bragg,  to supplement John Cowsill on percussion (who was on the Do It Again clip) especially for the SMiLE and Pet Sounds stuff. I like Richie Cannata, Ed Carter and Matt Jardine, Randell, Scott, Tim and Christian (for the absolute and unmistakable Wilson vocal similarity and the way it just 'harmonically Beach Boys "blends" with the rest of the Boys) as a back-line, because most of them played in the Carl  led-era, and, now play with the Touring Band, who have probably played at least 1,500 shows, and under the BRI banner of playing in the "Beach Boys style."   

And, (while I put on my flak jacket,) at least a cameo with John Stamos who brings a younger generation market share and who has kept Dennis' memory out there in the live context, and only in the most positive of contexts, and his presence sells tickets.  Period.  The young people he brings in, add to the show, enthusiasm of in a multi-generational context, and we DO want the music to live on, don't we? These kids born since Dennis' passing have no idea who Dennis Wilson was until Stamos gives them a history lesson.  A "negative"  poll to keep him out?  This is not presidential politics.  I want my kids, their friends, and their generation to want to go to a show like this.  "Uncle Jesse" opens the door. Even a Yahoo news article posed that question.       

Maybe a "cameo" of some of these other great and former Band members who, given the 50th Anniversary focus on the core members (where the emphasis really belongs) (Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce and David) (Dennis and Carl, in mind, of course) and less on the others,  who are part of the "BB story," except in a "support context."  Frankly, there is only so much room on the front of the stage.  It would be the size of a football field.   

How many people played with them, over time, and where do you draw the line?  It has to be reasonable.  Do people expect every mini orchestra and the cheerleaders, tripping over palm-like vegetation, surf boards?   Take a poll and vote them in?  Pa-leeze!
 
     

Fillthepage, did you sign the damn petition?  :)

I suspect the 50th year plans are already complicated and awkward enough — all the egos/personalities, bad-blood of the past — the melding of BW & ML's band-members, etc., etc. I suppose we should consider ourselves 'lucky' Dave is involved to the extent he is. The citizens of this board are far more knowledgeable than Mr. John Q. Public — to JQP, Blondie/Ricky's brief stint is, sadly, a minor footnote. And one that could, at this phase of BBoys history, emphasize an unsavory deviation from the band's famous canon.

Thanks, Pong Hit and b00ts for your thoughts...

There was no inference of the cheerleaders being on the same par as Ricky and Blondie, but what does one do with a "50-year entourage?" I like them both (Ricky and Blondie) and play that 73/74 concert album nearly every day.  I love it!  Pong Hit made a valid point about the whole process being a delicate one, and it certainly appears so.  That said, finally, there is concrete indication via the YouTube that our beloved guys are all working together.  Thank God.  First things, first. 

When  one surveys all the wonderful musicians, who have worked with the Band, you still have Glen Campbell, Daryl Dragon (and the brothers) Toni Tenille, and my point was that the list is "ad infinitum."  Should the Band feel pressured when they have just sat down and are working out things to be barraged with petitions, and demands from an internet community message board? 

In 50 years, there have been a lot of people and many of us, have special time windows, where that music is special.  For me, it is probably not the car songs, even if I get a kick out of them. I like the SDSN, Pet Sounds eras, forward, but other fans have other decades they wish to see represented. 

We finally have Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce and David together.  Isn't that enough for now?  Can't they just breathe and figure things out as they go along? They are all adults.  Can't they pick their own team?  No sports team management operates under fan pressure.   

And, I think any member has the right to post here, and not feel bullied, or coerced because a group or individual has a wish list attended to.  Members are free to sit down, write a letter, signed and dated, with a contact phone number, mail it, or email it, to an appropriate party, and that gets people further as activists, in a cause. You can craft your ideas (well-supported by facts,) and they don't reflect a simple position statement on a petition.  The "pen is still mightier than the sword."  (I could not resist!) And, most of us don't know each other except through this great exchange of ideas having to do with this music.   Petitions are just not my preference. That is my choice.     

It starts with those special "5 Guys" - and they take it from that table they are sitting at now, together. They look very comfortable with one another.  But, at some point the "class" (membership) identification is closed.  And, while you might love to invite "this whole world" to your wedding, but you only have room and money for your close friends and immediate relatives.   

It is an issue for someone far smarter than me.  Solomon.      ;) 

I'm inclined to agree with PongHit and filledeplage on this one.  No disrespect to Ricky and Blondie--they did the best they could under challenging circumstances.  But their tenure with the band was a relatively brief and obscure one (though I enjoy those albums) and maybe the Boys have enough on their plate just focusing on getting the right cohesion between the original members (and all of the competing egos and pressures that go with that).  I don't like to see Ricky and Blondie get airbrushed out altogether, but it's not really our place to tell the band how to run the show here.  Maybe they want to focus on other periods of their career without taking time out to do a CatP/Holland medley.

if they even want to.

I do think its totally BULLSHIT however, to put Blondie and Ricky in the same bracket as Daryl Dragon, Billy Hinsche, or any of these other sidemen.

Blondie and Ricky were expressly NOT hired as sidemen. They were actually in the band THE BEACH BOYS, as were Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, David Marks, and Bruce Johnston. So I don't like the whole, "ah, but there's so many people and some just might not make it" angle. These guys were actual members and played on classic fuckin' material. I think that's important enough for me.

I also feel though, The Beach Boys is ultimately Brian, Mike and Al's thing (as Carl and Dennis are no longer with us), so if they think it is appropriate that it is them three along with Bruce and David for this go-round, then so be it. But I have a feeling that if you asked Al Jardine or Brian Wilson why Blondie and Ricky aren't around for this project they probably say, "Well, gee, I guess they should be part of this! They were Beach Boys after all, weren't they! And Blondie sounded great on 'Sail On Sailor' and 'Funky Pretty'!"

You all could imagine that, couldn't you??

I think the reason people see Ricky and Blondie as being lesser Beach Boys is that there were only albums that didn't make much money compared to the surf hits. which is a dumb reason.

Filldeplage, you are a very articulate individual. You explain your reasoning very well, and I agree with much of what you wrote. I understand that you are not a petition person; I am not, either, believe it or not!

However, I don't think that making a petition means that we are trying to take away the Boys' ability to choose who they play with. The decison is up to them, and none of us are going to boycott or bully them if they don't include Blondie and Ricky. We are all excited for the reunion. They are big (Beach) Boys.

This is the one chance for all the surviving Beach Boys to get together. All the people you mentiomed contributed greatly to the Beach Boys' legacy, but they were not official members.

The only two official surviving Beach Boys who are not included in this reunion are Blondie and Ricky. They deserve to know that they are valued by the fans, whether or not they are eventually included. To that end, it is good to sign the petition if you appreciate Blondie and Rickys' contributions to the Holland era. I would imagine that giving these two a small part in the tour would cost BRI money, and hearing that the fans want Blondie and Ricky may influence their decision.

To that end, I respectfully and pig-headedly once again request that anybody who values Blondie and Ricky sign the petition.

Tristero, The Beach Boys are all grown men and BRI is a business. We are not bullying them by making a petition. The decision to include Ricky and Blondie,the only two surviving Beach Boys not included, likely is a financial concern.

We are not threatening a boycott or sending out any negativity. This is likely the last chance to see all the surviving Beach Boys together on stage. I think it is worth it to show BRI and Blondie and Ricky that we want to see them with the rest of the group. If not, I will still go see the reunited Beach Boys several times and buy their new album/box set.

Brian: "Hey Mike, some fans on the internet started a petition to get Blondie and Ricky included in the reunion."
Mike: "Are they serious? We already reunited with you, me, Al, Bruce, and David. Thse fans sure are spoiled."
Jeff: (in falsetto) "Ooooooowweeeeeooooo"
Al: "See guys, this is why I waited so long to agree to the reunion. These damn spoiled fans with their entitlement, trying to tell us what to do. I'm steamin' over here!"
Bruce: "Yeah, this fuking disgusts me." (pensively glances around the room)
Bruce: "Forget this bullshlt. I'm out."
David and Al (in unison): "So are we."
Al: "It's back to dental school for me..."

And so, Brian and Mike went their separate ways. Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar took over BRI and toured as The Beach Boys until the end of days.

b00ts - Thanks for your kind words...

Would people find it unreasonable to just let the guys (The Boys) enjoy the holidays and allow the dust to settle a bit?

A little "moratorium" as it were; even done during wartime? 

Mr. Mirth (Andrew) might be trying to drop a not-so-subtle hint that there is a possibility that some representative from the Band might carve out some time to check out the lively, if, sometimes too-hot-to handle discussion...and relay a certain fan sentiment...

After all, they have been back singing all together for about a minute!  And the fan passion is really great!

Happy Holidays to All! 

The guys back together is really a great gift to us all!  :love


 

I don't mean to disrespect those guys, but I think their role would not be more than tangential in a reunion like this. They're great musicians, an important part of an obscure but musically satisfying period, and full-time members for a while (that, I still don't get).

But this is about Hawthorne, CA 1961 and taking it from there. This is not about feeding minutia-hungry hardcore fans. Those guys don't fit within the vibe that is presented in the promo vid, and they had no significant relationship to the band for, what? 30 years? When Carl passed, it was David on stage playing the late Wilson's licks. Not Blondie. David fits. Bruce does. Blondie and Ricky would only as a one-time gentle nod to History. Nothing more. I'm sure they're greatful to have their share of immortality thanks to the BBs, but they know they ARE NOT beach boys. I imagine they must be very nice guys, and it'd be alright to have them join the band onstage for something, but I won't sign.

I signed the petition and would love to see Blondie and Ricky play with the band one more time..but,
I don't expect that to happen and I don't think the petition will alter the planned reunion in any way.

I look at this one way only, as a tribute to Blondie and Ricky, so if we get a pile of signatures, If they (Blondie and Ricky) see
them, they will know that we fans do care and enjoyed their contribution to the legend.

I don't know about Ricky, but Blondie does have a internet presence (Facebook, etc) so I would imagine he may see the list.

 :)
Peace
Doc Smiley

Exactly. It will show Ricky and Blondie that we fans are thinking about them during the 2012 reunion. It may also show BRI that we are interested in the Holland - CATP period of the band, which could conceivably affect the reissues/box set tracklisting in some infinitesimal way.

Really? I have a few albums I'd like to show you. By your reasoning, Bruce isn't a Beach Boy either?

I think the real truth may lie in the fact that they are black. And not in a racist way from those that are excluding them. But from the fact that many in the public would be like "what the f***?" when seeing a seven man Beach Boys including two black guys. People would be confused. Because even though Carl and Dennis are gone, the public will see 5 white guys up there on stage, and they'll think "hey, The Beach Boys". Blondie and Ricky might make them confused.

it's not really important to me that they're not there.  Perhaps it's their album songs.  None of them sound like the beach boys.  but another band on a beach boys album.  and in my mind/to my ears, they aren't beach boy songs.  Great musicians/songwriters though.

Couldn't we make a case that Hal Blaine, for example, was a more important part of BBoys history than Bruce, Blondie, or Ricky?

I think we could. But once again: Bruce, Blondie, and Ricky are/were FUCKING BEACH BOYS!

No need for a petition; it won't make any difference to them.  The group is aware of their history, and are in the process of making decisions for 2012.

 :'( No need to sign a petition either…  :'(

We're redundant…   :'(

Eh, that's ^ not a big deal to me.  I'd reckon Billy Hinsche was/is more important, and for longer — he was invited to be an 'official' BBoy (I think they wanted him before they wanted Blondie/Ricky).  And Christian, Usher, Asher, and Parks all co-wrote songs that are vital to the catalog — Bruce, Blondie, and Ricky did not…

These types of debates could go on endlessly…  as endless as the summer, one might say.  Bottom line is: for now, let's just be happy our 5 major survivors were together in one room again — I predict some bumpy weather during 2012 — stay seated, and use your seat belt.

No disrespect David, but maybe for once The Beach Boys will pay attention to their actual fan base and do something for us instead of just catereing to the casual fans who do not and have not bought their records since 1968. I signed the petition anyhow. It may or maynot make a difference, but it certainly won't hurt anything to let BRI know how we feel. People here keep telling me they listen to this board, so what the hell, let them listen now.

I think Bruce might take offense to the fact. And trust me, I am not a Bruce fan by any means, but I think many would say "Disney Girls" is a classic.

I signed.  :afro

You got that right. I understand that some people think the petition will have no effect, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why it is that people think the petition is somehow "pushing" things for 2012.

We fans are the ones who have been telling our friends for years that the Beach Boys are actually a really seriously good band, one of the best ever. The real deal, so to speak. We were into Pacific Ocean Blue, Holland, and Love You when those albums had been out of print for a decade or more. We watched Brian improbably start touring again, and then gasped in amazement as he decided to tour Smile and re-record and complete it. We witnessed Mike and Bruces' band evolve from a touring machine to a touring machine with really excellent performances. We waited decades (!) for Smile... and a couple of years for Postcard from California.

The point is, as frustrating as it is to be a Beach Boys fan at times, and as much as the BB's mess things up logistically at times, it is supremely gratifying when the group makes a good decision and/or listens to their fans.

As David said, the group are making all sots of plans for 2012. How could it hurt to show them that we, the hardcore fans, are not forgetting about the only two Beach Boys being left out of 2012? Anyone who is on the fence should just sign the goddam petition; it is most definitely not going to hurt anything.

Using that logic, Al shouldn't be in the reunion either.

If we're only talking about songwriting, then yes — but Al's voice was far more crucial and prominent than Bruce's, Blondie's, or Ricky's.

Let's face it: in BBoyworld, the recordings made during the early to mid-1960s is what matters.

Sure, commercially that's true. Artistically, many of us fans love the Brother Record years and consider those albums to be among the group's finest, and we would live to see it represented in the setlists. Judging by the increased popularity of these albums over the past decade and the reunion logo being what it is, we may yet see that period represented in the reunion.

I'm actually coming to that conclusion myself, all this talk of them not "fitting" and whatnot. It's ridiculous. And that comment about them knowing they're not Beach Boys? Well from what I read on another thread Blondie is a bit miffed that he hasn't been asked. David Mark's has every right to be up on that stage with the guys and i'm ecstatic that he is but by the same token so should Ricky and and Blondie.

I fall more in line with Dr. Lenny here, but I still signed.  Aside from "Sail on Sailor," I've never been a fan of their contributions to the band (although to be fair, aside from a few Dennis compositions I'm not a fan of that era in general).  Even so, they are a part of the Beach Boys story, being official members and all, and deserve to be recognized.

You should give another listen to Here She Comes.  :hat Great song.

Has anyone linked the petition on any of the other Beach Boys boards - bloo, SDV2, BB Britain etc?

Yeah, it is weird. I wonder if there is some racism in the mix there somewhere. I'm not accusing anyone here of consciously being racist, but I have to wonder why people refuse to sign the petition. It is such a simple thing, and fans who say "we should just be happy they are reuniting" are missing the point entirely.

I never expected so many people to be against the idea of including Blondie and Ricky, or to be against the idea of showing our support for these two, who, once again, are the only full members of the band who are still alive and not included in the reunion in any form.

Of course, we don't want them to just shoehorn Blondie and Ricky into the proceedings, but some particiption from them would make this reunion that much better. BRI can decide if it's worth it financially and otherwise, but why not make our support for these 'lost beach boys' known?

Petitions might not work, but they take a second of your time to sign, much less time than it takes to write a post detailing your reasons for not signing the petition. Essentially, there can be no ill effects from this petition. If things fall apart, it is not because some fans want Blondie and Ricky to be given their due. I never expected so many people to emphatically refuse to sign the petition.

I suppose that's human nature, though, and to ascribe it purely to racism is not fair. I think it is mainly that:

A) some people just don't consider Ricky and Blondie to be important, or important enough to advocate for
B) some people are just nay-sayers, or 'don't believe in petitions,' or don't think it will have any effect (a self fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one)
C) who the hell knows

The important thing, though, is that many of us love and respect Blondie and Ricky's tenure with the band, and have already signed the damn thing.

I am the one who made the petition and I haven't posted it anywhere besides Smileysmile.net. If someone here has accounts on the other boards and would like to post the petition there, that would be awesome. Otherwise, I can make accounts at those message boards and do it - it is probably better coming from someone who is known around those parts, though. I stay away from the bleuboard.

I posted it on my facebook page and also on the Beach Boys facebook page and maybe one or two other places. I suggest everyone who's for this who has a facebook at least post it there.

The comparisons of David Marks to Ricky/Blondie don't work in my mind; this is the 50th anniversary of what? The birth of the BBoys. 50 YEARS ago, David Marks was a legit, undisputed, 100% member of the band who signed the historic contract with Capitol. He was 1/5th of the group — and he played guitar on songs that are a vital part of the batch of tunes that have made everything since possible.

How are Ricky and Blondie not legit? In the gatefold of Carl and the Passions- "So Tough", on the back covers of Holland and In Concert. Composed and sang on all three albums. If I recall dates and math correctly, the years 1972, 1973 and 1974 are within the 50 years time frame that the Reunion embodies.

Using this logic, Bruce shouldn't be in the reunion, and Al's inclusion is also questionable.

I think the real truth may lie in the fact that they are black.[/quote]

Blondie, partly.  But, Ricky?  No.

I didn't say they weren't legit — but 50 years ago they weren't involved. An anniversary is... an anniversary! 1972 + 50 = the year 2022.

I can hear Bruce on "California Girls," and "God Only Knows," at least + other PS/SMILE tracks. Al's inclusion is not questionable — he sang/played on that same batch of vital material during the golden era.

Let's not get distracted by the race-thing — it wouldn't matter to me if they were purple or plaid.  :afro

First you said David is included because he was there at the start of the 50 years. Now you're streching your own criterion three years past that to include Bruce.

Why not go just a few years more and include the other two surviving members, Ricky and Blondie? I'm sure Carl would want them to get some recognition during this anniversary.

I'm not contradicting myself; it's the 50th anniversary of the band who made the tunes that have made everything since possible.



Carl's ghost & I have that in common — like I said, if they perform at some live dates, I'd love it — but they shouldn't be part of every 50th anniversary thing.

Your criteria for David, Al, and Bruce to be included and Blondie and Ricky not to be included is arbitrary. The closest thing I can figure is that it has to do with the band's commercial success in these periods.

Nobody is saying Blondie and Ricky should be a part of every 50th annversary thing. I have stated this numerous times here and elsewhere.

It's not arbitrary — it's specific, and should be easy to grasp — it's fairly obvious to most people...

 

That's part of it — but a cynical way to phrase it though.

 

Word. Then we are in agreement then. OK!

It's a 50 Year Anniversary Reunion. All the years that make up that 50 get included, you know. It's not a celebration of the first year 50 years later. It's a celebration of all 50 years.

Now hold on there partner.

 :police: I'm thinking about starting a petition that John Stamos be banned from all shows.  :police:

If that were the case, we wouldn't need an internet petition for Blondie/Ricky.

Excellent news, thanks — can't wait for the FAT BOYS/"Wipe-Out" segment of the concert.

Just give up -  as much as I love Ponghit, there's no logic or clear reasoning at work here. The best thing we can do is to promote the petition in as many Beach Boys forums and websites as possible.

Yeah and Kokomo too. Considering Wipe-Out was all Brian on background vocals, yeah, why not.

Indeed, when intentionally being a hard head, not much more to say, is there? ;)

Look, they are Beach Boys. They should both get their chance to strap on guitars and belt out something. I can't believe some of us are saying they don't deserve to be there.


The Fat Boys comparison is spurious - they were never 'The Beach Boys ft. Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar', were they? If you say, 'ner, let's get them onstage and do Wipe-out, it'd be just as valid as Blondie and Ricky!', well, get Little Richard and Status Quo onstage too.....

Some people like to deal in absolutes because they think it helps their flimsy arguments... c'est la vie.

(1) It was a joke — like the joke SurfRiderHawaii had just made about Stamos.
(2) I was not referring to Blondie/Ricky at all; I was talking about the notion that 'all 50 years are represented' in the show.

I guess Capital Records, the band, and everyone planning the 50th have no logic nor clear reasoning either. They need our input.

Pleaze tell me you're joking. If you're not, theres on logic nor clear reasoning at work here.

Hey, that was no joke.  No Stamos.

(well, the 'No Stamos' petition part was)   :lol

Now why would you think I am joking? Brian is very proud of his solo work on that record. It is part of his, and subsequently, the Beach Boys recorded history. It was always a part of their live show from it's time of release until at least 1997, with Billy doing the rap. Or are we doing a revisionist Brian/Beach Boys recording history? Personally, no, I would not like it included in the set list, but if it was, no big deal.

High-5. Sense of humor here is appreciated (by me).

A trivial correction:

"October 19, 1995 … 'Wipeout' had also been dropped; Billy Hinsche may have left the band by then."

Source: http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/10-19-95.html

isn't Blondie basically a Rolling Stone these days?

he might not even be available... or affordable for that matter

Yes, true, but that doesn't mean that he still coudn't be invited.

That's cool, broheim - did not realise your joke in nicotine-deprived rage  :lol

It's been 20 years since I quite smoking, but I remember that rage clearly!

I'm again puzzled as to why anyone sincerely opposes people who were legit members of the band, not just touring members, being in on this. The Fat Boys comparison was ridiculous.

Blondie/Ricky "being in on it" to some extent would be great. And as I already explained, my Fat Boys comment was a joke, like the Stamos one the immediately preceded it.

If you think it would be great, then why not sign the petition? Afraid to 'boss around' the Beach Boys?  :police:

Are you asking me? What makes you think I haven't signed already?

Did the Rolling Stone thing happen since May? When that video of him playing Sail On Sailor with Ron Jeremy in a high school auditorium was posted?

We already know he's interested in being a part of the reunion based on the comment by Mr. Ed Roach. I'm sure there will be at least one appearance by him, not sure about Fataar, anybody know what he's doing nowadays?

Doubt they will be there the whole tour, possibility slightly increased if fans make enough noise and show enough interest in a Blondie Chaplin/Ricky Fataar reunion with the Beach Boys. Chances are it's only fanatics on message boards who give a damn. Unfortunately for us.

And for those against it because "omg they weren't in the band 50 years ago," this is arguably the last time the surviving members of the Beach Boys will play together and the last chance for those two to play with them.

Either way, I'm sure we're all going to be there and we're all going to have a great time. 2012 !!!  :rock

Ah, gotcha :)

You know what though? Why shouldn't they be part of everything? Can somebody show me David's parts on Pet Sounds and SMiLE? Or his songwriting on Sunflower? Oh yeah, that's right! He's not on the fuckin' albums, and wasn't in the band during those times. Yet there he is, playing guitar on the new version of "Do It Again", a song which he had f***-all to do with back in 1968! Now don't get me wrong, I think David is great, and I'm very happy for him that he's part of the reunion, and I really think artistically he will make the new album more interesting.  But I think it's just fine that if they do a TV special and they are performing "California Girls" or "Wouldn't It Be Nice" that he be on stage. Same with Brucie, he wasn't on anything until Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) but I think it's ok that he is on stage for "Little Deuce Coupe" and "Surfin' Safari" clapping his hands and wearing his dorky little shorts!

My point being, I think it'd be pretty sweet seeing Ricky Fataar playing drums on ALL of these songs since, uh, well, he probably has played nearly EVERY SINGLE SONG that The Beach Boys will be playing on this tour with the band while he was with them, which is more than you can say for David for the post-Surfer Girl material. And he is on record playing those songs with them. I direct you to In Concert if you aren't aware. Same thing with Blondie. Not to mention that if they play "Sail On Sailor", which I would think they should since it's one of their best songs of the '70s, they could have the original lead vocalist sing it. And they would have a guy that could play bass or guitar, and therefore could be really versatile in the band, also adding a great voice to the blend.

Just my 2¢

Completely agree with everything sweetdudejim says.

I would love to see Ricky & Blondie, even if it means there would be like 6 guitar players on stage.

Greatest live show I ever saw was the BBs with Blondie and Ricky...count me in!  They should at least be addressed and invited.

BTW -- no Human Beat Box, no Fat Boys.

 :lol

I doubt this ^ is accurate — the phase with Blondie/Ricky was a unique couple o' years when the live show was deliberately trying to move away from 'the traveling jukebox' setlist.  The new 50th anniversary show will likely include things like "Little Deuce Coupe," "Surfin' Safari," "Be True To Your School," "Shut Down," "409," etc.

Blondie and Ricky definitely played all the bigger early hits live, Surfin' USA, Fun Fun Fun, Barbara Ann, California Girls, etc. Towards the end of Ricky's tenure with the band they started playing Little Deuce Coupe and Catch a Wave.

I saw The Beach Boys in 1974 without Blondie, but with Dennis & Ricky together on drums and they did quite a few of the songs that were mentioned. I'm not really sure what your issue is, but the main deal here is that both Blondie & Ricky were "Official", dyed in the wool, Beach Boys, whether you approve or not.

I think a lot of us fans, still do not quite see Blondie and Ricky as beach boys. Notwithstanding their tenure as full-time members... which is hard to understand for some like myself.

They were a grouo within the group in a way.

They are good muisicians and singers, and would be a nice addition to some of the events, but their role in this reunion can only be secondary, just as their role in the band's history has been tangential (in spite of an excessive studio album presence during a couple of years).

Regarding the comments that Blondie's voice would be a nice addition to the blend, I don't agree. His sound is too guttural, and there are others to sing on his harmony range. Not that he is without merit as a singer.

The thing is, it is like revisionist history. We bitch about Mike Love doing it, but now we have fans doing it to a certain extent. Like, oh they don't really count because they weren't here long enough. Or, it was during a time when they weren't as popular, etc.. The argument that I responded to about Blondie & Ricky not ever playing Shut Down or 409 is like saying David shouldn't be there because he never played All This Is That.

I think your point in support of Blondie and Ricky's well deserved credentials for being included in a reunion would be more credible if you could keep your facts straight. You are not doing them any favors by using a badly framed argument.  First off David was on studio recordings post Surfer Girl, like all of the new LDC LP tracks and at least a couple later than that...but that's a minor issue. However, if you know anything about Dave you'd know that one of the huge revelations of his life was when he rejoined the Beach Boys in 1997 and had to learn all of the post 1964 material that he wasn't on. That's when it hit him so deeply regarding Brian's genius, because he had to learn Wouldn't It Be Nice, Good Vibrations, Sloop John B., California Girls, Heroes and Villains, Sail On Sailor etc.. etc.. etc... And as he learned those songs and toured the world with the Beach Boys playing them night in and night out the brilliance of that music reminded him of Brian and the band's incredible growth after he left. Between his time as a solo artist, with Al and the Endless Summer Band, playing with Mike's side project in the late '70's, and playing gigs with the Beach Boys in the '70's, 90's, 2000's...Dave has played far more Beach Boys material than what's on the first three LP's...he's been doing it for many years...and he does it beautifully.

Whatever.

The jist of my point still stands, and I'm pretty sure that most fans value the 1972 Beach Beach over the 1998 Beach Boys. And gimme Carl & The Passions over Saluting NASCAR By Three Guys that Can't be Credited as "The Beach Boys" on this release.

And it is wonderful that he learned that about Brian's genius. And I think David seems like a totally awesome guy. And I think its great he's part of the reunion. My only quarrel is that it would be a crying shame to many if David wasn't part of the reunion, but the lack Blondie and Ricky merely elicits a "meh". It's just odd. And I really am beginning to think they won't be included because their presence would confuse the public. Whereas, you could replace Bruce, Al, and Dave with Jeff Foskett, Christian Love, and John Cowsill and the public wouldn't bat an eyelash, because most people know Brian, maybe Mike, and then some other guys, and the one that drowned.

The band were at their peak live in the early 70's, in no small part due to Blondie and Ricky's contributions. Getting them involved seems like a no brainer to me.

As I said, I don't think the following is literally accurate, as stated: "EVERY SINGLE SONG that The Beach Boys will be playing on this tour." That's all — no biggie.

I love the Blondie/Ricky period — the live album they're on is one of my favorite things in the catalog — and it's the 'best of' album I recommend to newbies.

I never said they "shouldn't be there" — and certainly not because they didn't play Shut Down or 409.

The above ^ is obviously true.  Nearly 40 years ago, when the decision was made to add Blondie/Ricky as members, the intention must have been for it to last longer than a couple years.  Had they remained in the band for, say, 10 years or so, maybe the notion of them becoming 'full time' members would carry more weight now — and their current status would be less "secondary" and "tangential."  

The point is: a line had to drawn.  Clearly, the core of this 'reunion' is getting Brian & Mike back together to do it again.  Beyond that, since Carl & Dennis are gone, the next obvious choices are Al, Bruce, and David.  Additionally, we have a cast of dozens of surviving people who have contributed to the legacy in various ways: Blaine, Kaye, & other Crew members, Asher, Parks, Hinche, Dragon, Carter, Blondie, Ricky, Foskett, Stamos, Sahanaja, Totten, and many others.  Can they all be on stage at some point during 2012?  It would be cool if they were, but it's unrealistic, isn't it?

I wish that was the case. I certainly do value the '72 BB's more, and probably about 2954 more of us do too. The majority of the people that will go to these reunion gigs won't care or know the difference. The 1972 Beach Boys played to 10,000 on a big night. The 1998 Beach Boys played to 150,000 on a big night...hard to imagine...but true. I think the 1998 Beach Boys biggest audience is somewhere around 300,00 at a festival in Germany. I'd estimate they probably picked up more fans on those tours than the '72 tours. Maybe they aren't as appreciative as we are...but they love the Beach Boys. Bottom line is that we agree that Blondie and Ricky deserve to be included...I'm 100% for it and will do what I can to help.

To Sweet Jim (The Dude)...This whole 50 year dynamic is mind-boggling.  I have already said my 2 cents about the early 70's and the love for the 73/74 concert era.  Love it and listen in its entirety (which is the test, I think) about that era.  Whether it is NASCAR or a Hallmark mini-release, it all adds up to keeping the music alive.  

This Christmas, while "making the rounds" I listened to some really enlightening stuff from some of the young cousins in the family, who were impressed that I had seen the Boys, but not so much the "Boys" but John Stamos.  Their information reference for the Beach Boys stems from Full House.  One bright young man, working in California, took a trip up to see the "house" of the fictional family.

The other young girl cousins were between 10 and 17 or so and they said they like the Beach Boys because they had the 8 seasons  of Full House, on DVD!  It ran from 1987 to 1995 or so, eight seasons, so these kids are the 2nd generation to have Full House on DVD, with the episodes that featured the Boys.   It was a real "a-ha" moment for me.  I would guess that Stamos must be around his late 40's, but for these kids,  with DVD's, he is still a twenty-something.  It is delightful to hear these kids say they like the Beach Boys but, still a shock to even imagine that they know/like a band, whose members are already or nearly 70 years old!  

The Rolling Stones don't have a Stamos, even if they have Blondie, whom I have seen, with them.   I'll bet he (Old Mick) wishes he did, to cultivate a new market share!   I'm kidding! (Maybe) ;)

The point is, that, all these 50 year transitions of the band and conotations for each generation and interest group make it really difficult, to cater to all potential concert goers.  I was a college/grad school student during the "Blondie and Ricky" years.   Maybe the management will do a guest "cameo" segment of the show, in certain markets, featuring some of the past band members, all great musicians.  Who knows?  But, frankly, that era, although super creative and I identify with it, is one of high interest for 50 and 60 somethings, and, maybe only potentially workable in certain markets.  And, how do you ensure the future of the music?  

Que será, será...

I'm really glad everyone on this thread has agreed that Ricky and Blondie are real Beach Boys and deserve to be acknowledged either on a 50th Anniversary TV/video/special and/or live on stage with the band at some point during the 2012 tour. Let's hope for the best!

But if they are/were real BBs, did they have signed contracts entitling them to shares of the revenue; or were they listed/pictured on the LPs, but paid as sidemen? 
 and if there is/was a paper trail, how was it so easy to walk away after a fight?

Has this thread achieved :deadhorse status yet?

The number of views for this thread: 2,335

The number of signatures on the petition: 116

well heck. we better all sign it a couple more times each, with other/fake names, so it'll look like enough people really care

Who will go to bat for Billy Hinsche?  Doesn't he deserve to be included?

Yep!  Billy should be recognized as a top notch Beach Boys sideman. Same with Ed Carter, Bobby Figeuroa, Carli Munoz, and Elmo Peeler, who I saw do an outstanding job in the 70's. Throw in Mike Meros, Kawalski, and the Dragons too while we're at it. And Charles Lloyd too. They should be recognized in the video.

The thing is, though, Blondie & Ricky WERE Beach Boys!  That's a distinction not many people can claim, and is the reason I originally mentioned that Blondie was kind of ticked off at the way they are always overlooked.  Sure, he's played & sung with The Stones for years now, (a feat not to be sneezed at), but he & Ricky were invited to become Beach Boys...  Regardless of how things ended between them, it's just a crime, the way they are always just an asterisk in the bands' history.

Billy Hinsche was also invited to become a Beach Boy…  and although he declined the official distinction, that doesn't diminish is enormous and long-standing input/support that continues to this day, with his documentaries, etc.

I'm a huge fan of the Blondie/Ricky era and would love to see them at least once on the tour (final night, filmed performance for the inevitable DVD, etc) but I'm not surprised by their omission.  Their tenure is like Murray and David all over again.  WE know they were members but the group barely acknowledges them.  Their entire appearance in the Endless Harmony doc (outside of that one eency, weency, don't-blink-or-you'll-miss-it wide shot) was cut from the broadcast and only included with the DVD.  My opinion?  Take em on the road.  Why?  First and foremost, they're Beach Boys.  As Ed said, that's a very short list of people so why not include em all?  But the thing that KILLS me about them not even being considered is the two members missing (now deceased) from the classic "man on the street" line up played LEAD GUITAR AND DRUMS!!!!  Hello??? 

They may not have sang many hits or played on the studio versions on any major "classics" but to me, they're the OBVIOUS choices to replace Carl and Dennis (onstage), as they were great friends (or at the very least proteges) of Carl and Ricky "replaced" Dennis (apparently with his approval) while he was still in the band.  Not to take anything from David (who obviously DID play on the studio versions of several major classics, etc).  The need for his inclusion is a no-brainer.  But Blondie and Ricky are usually thought (or at least referred to) as a "set" and would slip right into the show without having to worry about "who's" guitar player and drummer to use on the tour.

All that said, we'll be lucky if they're even mentioned outside of the box set tracks they're on but I 'd still love to see them on the all but assured 2012 concert DVD. 

Sadly Mike Meros died a while back and i've heard that Daryl Dragon isn't keeping too well :(

They "were," not "are."

Right. Just looking for acknowledgement though video/still pictures as Beach Boys sidemen through the years, that's all. Meros was with the band from 1979 to 2001, 22 years! Kawalski was the Beach Boys drummer and percussionist from 1968 to 2007, 39 years! Carter played guitar live and on the records from 1968 to the late 90's (30 years), Hinsche for 20 years, and Figueroa for 12 years.  So these guys shouldn't be ignored - they were an integral part of the live (and recording) band for a lotta years!

Okay, but only two of those people were actually members of the Beach Boys. Blondie and Ricky.

So what?  That distinction doesn't seem to hold much water now — as I said, when the decision was made to add Blondie/Ricky as members, the intention must have been for it to last longer than a couple years.  Had they remained in the band for, say, 10 years or so, maybe the notion of them becoming 'full time' members would carry more weight now.  And we probably wouldn't need to conduct this debate.  As Mikie just pointed-out, others were more important, and for much, much longer:

David wasn't in the band for 10 years. Hal Blaine was a paid session musician. you can argue that Hal Blaine was more important than Brian, he probably played on more tracks.

Doesn't matter — David grew-up with the Wilsons, learned guitar with Carl, signed the original Capitol deal, and played on the classic first 4-5 albums.


They all got paid!


 ::) Me? No, I'll leave that argument for you to make.

Doesn't matter - Ricky and Blondie were hand-picked by Carl, made into full members of the band, and played (AND wrote!) on two of the BB's classic 70s albums, as well as tons of live shows during the band's resurgence. Also, Blondie sang lead on one of the group's biggest hits of the 70s.

What doesn't matter?

We all know the above — are you just trying to string this thread (that you started) along for a long as you can? Look: I've said this over & over again — Ricky/Blondie are cool by me, but they're only 2 of a batch of dozens of comparable people who also deserve to be involved somehow.

They're also the only two surviving actual "Beach Boys" who are not in the reunion.

They ceased being "Beach Boys" nearly 40 years ago, or we wouldn't be talking about this.

Well....David Marks ceased being a "Beach Boy" in like 1999 or whatever. And as far as being a real band that puts out new albums, he was last a Beach Boy in like 1963 (?) so if he wasn't included would you say the same?

And Brian and Alan haven't being in the touring band since 1996 or 1997 (?) respectively so does that not make Brian a Beach Boy for the last 15 years? Or does his being partner in BRI invalidate that? I'm serious with these questions too.

I've already addressed this — should be obvious anyway.



You'd like to debate if Brian Wilson or Al should be part of the 50th thing?  I see why you need to specify you are "serious."

F*ck it, Brian and Al out - Blondie and Ricky in.  ;D

YESSSSS! I'm so glad The Return of the Son of Mike's Beard has returned!

I'm not debating whether Brian or Al shouldn't be part, I'm debating the fact of whether they have or haven't been "Beach Boys" for the past 15 years, because your reasoning is that Blondie and Ricky haven't been Beach Boys for almost 40 years so they shouldn't be involved. I don't think it matters WHEN they were Beach Boys. They were Beach Boys on recorded albums, and live. I don't understand the argument against them that has David Marks in, but them out. Just seems odd.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all! As I've said numerous times, I'd love to see Blondie/Ricky involved.  And my comment about '40 years' was to indicate that they were BBoys, not are...


Adding Blondie/Ricky opens a can of worms — what about Hinche, Carter, et al?  They also were on recorded albums, and live, and for much, much longer.

Marks was there from the beginning (& before the beginning), signed the original Capitol contract, and recorded on classic 1960s material that will live forever — big difference.  Some people who apparently agree with me include Brian Douglas Wilson, Michael Love, Alan Jardine, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, Capitol Records, and all their associated parties.

There is a big difference. Blondie and Ricky were official members. The old backing band were just that, the backing band.

OK, I'll DO IT AGAIN: Blondie/Ricky being 'official,' briefly, apparently doesn't mean much now.  Nearly 40 years ago, when the decision was made to add them as members, the plan must have been for it to last longer than 2 years.  Had they remained in the band a lot longer, maybe the notion of them becoming 'full time' members would carry more weight now.

I totally see what you are saying PongHit, but it just seems like your rules are kinda arbitrary.

What you are saying, however, is probably what Brian, Mike and Al might be thinking. It's very possible.

But I'm not looking at it from that perspective. I'm looking at it from the perspective that both of these guys were fully in the band and made some great music with the band, and therefore should be part of the group.


But I will also say that beyond all else it is up to Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl's estate. Whoever they want in the group is fine with me. However, my only thing is I'm sure if somebody asked Brian Wilson or Alan Jardine if they thought it'd be cool if Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar rejoined the group, they'd be cool with it.

I honestly think it is an oversight, and that Blondie and Ricky just don't get thought of. It's obvious that they were totally cool with David joining, and I don't think they originally excluded him out of any malicious intent. I think they are just used to the basic Beach Boys being Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, with Carl and Dennis being deceased members. I don't think they had a meeting and somebody said "Should Blondie and Ricky be part of the reunion?" and they had a yea or nay vote. I just don't think Brian Wilson really ever concerns himself with who was in the band. Which is why I think it is good that it is being brought to light.

They're not my rules, and they're not arbitrary.

It totally makes sense that the "50th Celebration" BBoys are: Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, & Bruce. 

If, during a live concert, or TV special, or whatever, any of the many other major players can be added, that would be a nice bonus.  But the notion of Blondie/Ricky 'rejoining the band' is silly, and it ain't gonna happen. 

It's that simple.

I know it's probably not gonna happen, but your grouping Blondie and Ricky together which "other major players" is bullsh*t to me. I don't know how many times it has to be said, they weren't just major players, they were Beach Boys, unlike Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, or a number of other fine gentleman who worked for The Beach Boys, and it is an insult to them as people and musicians that many here can not accept that they were full fledged Beach Boys.

How does Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, and Bruce make more sense than Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, Bruce, Blondie, and Ricky though? The Beach Boys lineup never had Brian, Mike, Al, Dave, and Bruce in it at the same time, so it's not like it's really true to the "group who recorded 'Surfin' years ago"  band, nor is it equivalent to the Pet Sounds/Smile band. It's just guys that happened to be in the band who are all still living. And even though one guy was onlly in the band from like '62 to '64, he is ESSENTIAL, but the guys who helped keep the band alive from '72 to '73 and '74, and one whose lead vocals who are on a classic hit record aren't included. I would not have this argument if the "reunion" lineup was just Brian, Al, and Mike, but with Bruce and David being there, it just makes the no Blondie and Ricky argument trickier, because people can rationalize it however they want, but those guys were in the band, whether they accept it or not. And some have admittedly had trouble accepting it, which is odd to be honest.

1: Is your use of "odd," which you've done at least twice so far, intended to imply possible racism?

2: They have trouble accepting it for logical reasons, which are obvious to most people.

3: Yes, the plan and *intention* at the time was for Blondie/Ricky to become members, 'forever,' but things didn't work-out that way.  Therefore their special distinction hasn't held much water since they left in 1973-'74.  That's how lots o' peeps apparently see it, including the powers that be.  And that perspective is not 'bullsh*t' just because you want to view it differently.

Even though you say you want them included, it is clear that the fact they were official Beach Boys seems not to matter that much to you. To me that is odd, considering you seem to give more credence to adding former backing band members. Why would you bring up racism? You have never brought that to the conversation. I guess we all have our odd ways of what things we consider important and unimportant. ;)

Nope, not more nor less, in general — it would depend on the specific people we're talking about — for example, I'd estimate Hinche contributed & continues to contribute more, & for much longer, to BBland than Blondie/Ricky did.  And clearly Carl's & Dennis's commitment/dedication to, & relationship with Hinche was as intense, if not more so, than Blondie/Ricky — they invited Hinche to be 'official' too.


Have you read this entire thread?  It was brought-up before, and not by me.

Racism was never brought up by Jim or myself. Plus, none of your arguments for or against had any inference to it. The argument is, whether all living official members, past and present should be included in the reunion.

Would it be cool if Blondie/Ricky were included?  Sure!  But I think the debate should be more like 'to what extent?'

Why do you think they've been overlooked thus far?

You know what, I probably wouldn't be all for them being total members for the 50th anniversary if David wasn't. And this is nothing against David. I read Jon's book about him and really dig the guy. But my thing is I just don't understand how David Marks should automatically be in the group, but Blondie and Ricky shouldn't. That is it. Both Blondie, Ricky, and David were in the band for a much shorter time than the rest of the members. All three of them are somewhat "forgotten" (or never even noticed) by the public. So my thing is, well, it should be all three, or none of the three. Yes, I understand David was on "Surfin' USA" and "Surfer Girl" and so on, but still, on the same hand I can say Blondie sang the lead on the first song of what is now known as one of their more well known albums. And Ricky played drums on the same crucial album. So there is pluses and minuses for all. But I just don't understand the allegiance to David at the expense of Blondie and Ricky.

I just think by your reasoning Billy Hinsche of Mike Kowalski should be part of this more than David Marks should, since they (possibly to some) played a bigger part for longer to the band.

But that's ^ only one part of the reasoning — Marks was there from the beginning — before the beginning, growing-up with the Wilsons, learning guitar with Carl, etc. — he signed the original Capitol contract, and played on classic 1960s material that will live forever. 

SOS is a cool tune, but HOLLAND is appreciated by BB aficionados like us who frequent this board — hardly comparable to the legacy of "Surfin Safari", “409”, “Shut Down”, "Surfin USA", "In My Room," "Surfer Girl", "Be True to Your School", and so on.

Some of you guys are not reading closely, being dense, or deliberately trying to take only one element out of context.  It's the sum of the parts that equals the logic behind the decisions being made.  I'm explaining the reasoning at work with the band, Capitol, et al., and yes, I agree with their decisions.

As I said before, someone has to play the bass and drums for these gigs. As the only other two living souls inhabiting a planet of roughly 7 billion people that can genuinely say they were once official Beach Boys, I'd say that's as good a reason as any why Blondie and Ricky should be given first refusal.

But looking at it from another perspective, it's probably natural that Brian, Mike etc.. would feel more inclined to use parts of their current respective rhythm sections then people they haven't performed with for nearly 40 years.

Without Brian, there's no 'reunion' — oops, sorry, we're not supposed to call it that — Without Brian, there's no '50 year celebration.'  BW needs to feel comfortable, and his entourage need to be happy, thus The Lovester's statement that 'we're mostly using BW's band.' 

Sounds like it will essentially be The BW Band, with Totten/Cowsill added.

Which, to be fair, will be a good band!

Heck yes, it will.

Some of us fans have nice fan-fantasies, but the reality doesn't match-up.  Like I said, the 50th year plans must be complicated/awkward already; the egos/personalities involved, the history of lawsuits, the blending of BW & ML's band-members, and so on.  Maybe we're 'lucky' we get Dave at all?  Those of us here on the board know a lot about historical details, but Blondie/Ricky's brief stint is unfortunately just one of many minor footnotes in BBland.  And one that could emphasize an unsavory period — Blondie/Ricky were brought into the fold when Brian had flaked-out, so they needed new blood to pick-up the slack.  The agenda for 2012 will be, in part, to celebrate BW.  And for the 50th bday, they want a party, not a bummer.

I don't think if Blondie and Ricky were in the band, it would be a celebration of Brian being a flake. That's like saying that Bruce being in the band is a celebration of Brian being a flake. Bruce directly replaced Brian on the road.

It would be neat if Glen Campbell joined them for some shows and maybe even did "Guess I'm Dumb" but I guess we all know why that wouldn't happen...   

That ^ can be spun in a positive way, thusly: 'The young visionary, Brian Wilson, worked hard in the studio, innovating new recording and composition techniques while his band toiled on the road — in the process, Wilson valiantly battled the British Invasion, produced a string of smash hit singles, and created timeless albums forever considered to be masterpieces.'

By contrast, 1970s Brian had long since disappeared down the scary rabbit-hole to Wilsonland.

Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth — let's be grateful that Brian, Mike, and others will do a full-scale tour again, for probably the last time ever.  It's a 'celebration' after all — let's CELEBRATE.

Reading the fine points in these discussion threads,  (and learning much, thank you all)  realizing that the Boys produced (in house) to the greater extent, their own work;  whilst others had professional producers to do it for them, raises the bar in my opinion as to the apples-and-oranges debate, as between the two bands.   And, after having seen The Wrecking Crew film (not just to appreciate their music industry work) but the fact that Brian could work out a lot of kinks and be more time-efficient when the band returned from touring. 

Yes, it is a "celebration..."

You are correct, Pong Hit,...not to look a "gift horse in the mouth!"

Happy New Year, all!  :love

the fact that you are trying to "spin" things makes this entire discussion pointless.

Those grapes were probably sour anyway.

And you appear to be speaking only for yourself:

Yeah not to offend anyone but this conversation is becoming much less productive than it could be. Naysayers will always say "nay" and they will always have their reasons. Is anyone here a member of the BleuBoard in good standing, or any of the others? We should be promoting this petition more outside of ss.net.

Now that all the excitement hasn't settled per se but at least has so that my view is realistic nough (hehe  :) ) I'd just like to say that I don't think Blondie & Ricky have to be part of the whole reunion. They did great things for the band at the time but the legend was already built and just waiting to be re-discovered. That is, they should be honored in some way. Maybe playing some songs with the other guys. They are great musicians and if Blondie still sounds somewhat like in the 70s his voice would add some great harmonic sound. Listen to In Concert and you can hear how fantastic his voice fitted even - almost especially - with the old songs like Don't Worry Baby, Good Vibrations, etc.

All in all, I'd love to have them there but imo it doesn't lessen the reunion if they aren't part of the whole thing. But again, they without any question should at least be honored in some nice way. They deserve that mightily.


BTW I think this would be a interesting song for the Beach Boys to record:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCBWPGXmK7A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCBWPGXmK7A)

The John Stamos' appreciation club are pushing for his inclusion for the tour so I hear!
 What the heck ,why stop with Blondie and Ricky!? ::)
 

I'd like to see Blondie and Ricky part of the tour as perhaps special guests: maybe open for the band or perform their set in the middle of the show to act as an intermission for the Beach Boys--much like the way the Everley Brothers did on Simon and Garfunkel's reunion tour in 2003.  They do some of their own songs, and then bring out the Beach Boys for "Sail On Sailor" etc. 

This being said, I would not want them to be permanent members of the band for the entire show.  First off, neither of the guys have played with Ricky or Blondie in years....it would be much too hard to work with basically new musicians who aren't used to playing these sonsg.  John Cowsill is a safe decision.  Mike has worked with him for a while, he knows the songs...the transition is seemless.  That would not be the case with Ricky on drums. 

Blondie & Ricky are professional musicians. Should they be invited, they would rehearse the material before going on the road. Are you afraid that they might rearrange the songs to sound like the Stones or Bonnie Raitt or something? ;)

That is incorrect. I watched Ricky play most of the songs in Mike and Bruce's current setlist and more. Mike has worked with him for awhile too. And if Ricky didn't know a particular song, he'd come up to speed pretty fast.

Absolutely they are professional dudes and I have no doubt they'd be able to pick up any song after working with the band...but that's the issue.  If I were Mike, why go with Ricky who would need extra time/work to rehearse/learn the arrangements when I got a guy like John Cowsill who already knows the songs and is ready to perform them at the drop of a hat right now?  The rehearsals for the tour are most likely going to be focused on the vocals between the principle Beach Boys....I doubt Mike would want to burden himself with also worrying about having to get the band up to speed from scratch.  The band is practically ready to go as is. 

And yes, I would guess a small portion of the reason is that they want to ensure that the music stays true to the original sound and feel and not sway to much into other areas.  The band is the least of their issues in the greater scheme of the proceedings, I doubt they'd want to complicate issues by bringing new-old members into the mix when they have bigger fish to fry.

I don't know why I go into this thread, it just makes me angry.

and Mike Cowsill doesn't know any Beach Boys songs.

Okay, I read through this whole thread and I'm surprised that nobody has brought up what I was thinking which is do Blondie and Ricky WANT to be included?  You guys are arguing this like it's your decision.  But it was their choice to quit the band and they never came back.  I personally would love to see them as part of the tour, if only to see Sail On Sailor performed with its original singer but they might have left their Beach Boys stint behind them for a good reason.  Their time in the group was a transitional period for the Beach Boys, an essential one and an interesting one but frankly, the wide audience wants to hear the Beach Boys of the 60s, the ones who wrote hit songs.  The Who doesn't include Kenney Jones in their current shows because while he was a member of the band, he was not a huge part of the history, the band hit their peak before he got there and he will never get the recognition that Keith Moon got.  Same with Blondie and Ricky of the Beach Boys.  I'm not saying they deserve to be forgotten but they're not part of the classic Beach Boys lineup.

See post 119 from Ed to see how Blondie feels about things. Your last sentence is a bit presumptuous.

All ^ true.  But more to the point: at its core, it's all about Brian — he needs to be happy/comfortable during this 50th year thing — if BW's crew gets spooked, it's game-over.  The way to make things smooth and easy for the big-guy is to use the band he's familiar with.  No one's gonna risk making waves (pun intended) over Ricky/Blondie's inclusion in the band; they're not a priority.

The 50th Anniversary Beach Boys band includes members from Mike and Bruce's band, Brian's band, and Al Jardine's band. There are certain songs that a member of each band will have to learn from scratch if they are to do all of the songs from one another's setlists. ALL of the members (including Ricky, Blondie, Al, and Dave) know most of the songs that these three bands do, with the exception of a very few. They should ALL hit the ground running with a few rehearsals. But ALL of them will have to learn something from scratch.

If Brian and Mike are happy with 'Mike' Cowsill, I'm happy. I'd just like to see Ricky sit in for a few gigs - and Blondie too.

Hell, even let that hamburger Stamos sit in, just so we can make fun of his showboatisms and throw rocks at him.

Who from Al's group?  Mike was quoted recently as saying 'We're mostly using BW's band,' so I thought it was BW band, + Coswill on drums, & Scott Totten on guitar.

Gary Griffin played with Brian but also with Al. Don't know about any other.

As others have mentioned, it seems the ultimate goal from Mike and Brian's perspective is to make this as seamless of a transition as possible.  Yes, there will be songs that will require some band members to have to learn new parts---but nothing is worse than having to go through a whole set of songs with a new drummer--regardless if they've played these songs before or not.  Having a new drummer sit in is like having a completely different band: sometimes it's great but sometimes It throws you off.  Every musician has their own style...who's to say Ricky would really gel with the band?   In Mike's position, I'd be confident in knowing that my guy John Cowsill has and can do the part, there's a sense of security there---I wouldn't dare throw away that guarantee on bringing in someone new--- even if it was an old friend. 

That said, I'm totally for Blondie and Ricky having a full set either as an opener or in the middle of the show.

THERE you go. I knew you'd come around! Fataar is a drummer's drummer. Why do you think he took over for Dennis in the early 70's when he hurt his hand? Both Dennis and Carl knew he could do the job. Guy knew the oldies like the back of his hand and picked up new material in a flash. No wonder Dennis wanted Rick on his album.

Bonghit: The answer is Al himself. And David played in his band at some gigs too.

And isn't Scott Bennett going to go with them on the 50th?

I don't remember noticing Bennett in the "Do It Again" video, but maybe all the personnel details aren't arranged yet.

Yup, Bennett was definitely there.  He was at the tail end of the full video.

Scott Bennet was playing keyboards, visible at the tail end of the video

That's why I asked if Bennett is joining The Beach Boys on tour this year - because he was in the video. Has it been confirmed yet that pretty much everyone in the video (in addition to Marks) will be in the 50th Anniversary shows?

Presumably.

nothing's more reliable than presumable confirmations! on the internet!

There's a lot of info on the Internet — some of it's true!

Do you think the Stockholm Strings'n'Horns or a similar group will be part of the shows ?

One day, when the 50th ann celebration passes, I wanna hear the full story on how and why Blondie and Ricky became FULL-TIME BEACH BOYS!!!!

From what I just heard, it doesn't look like Blondie (and therefor Ricky) will be part of the reunion/celebration. Things are up to the Boys, maybe someone will have the bright idea to include them.

BTW does Bruce still post on BBBritain ? Maybe someone can ask him what he thinks....

Not sure if this was posted already, but here's Blondie performing Sail On Sailor in 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reP5gImvF-c&feature=related

I just saw Blondie play the other day. When he introduced Sail on Sailor he said something to the effect of "I used to play in a band called the Beach Boys. They were a bunch of weirdos, but this is a good song."

Pretty hard to argue with that!

A blawst from the pawst.

Not everyone speaks English in the same way that you do. What's your point?

Wondering if he was refering to the weird TM stuff or just Mike Love?

Did you watch/hear the video? That's not how I speak — it's how Blondie pronounced it — I thought it was cute.

Probably that, and more — hard to deny they were 'a bunch of weirdos.'

But, they are our weirdos. ;D

The word 'weird' does not make me immediately think of Mike. The are others in line, ahead of him.

I disagree — Mike is definitely weird to me — maybe not the top of the list, but certainly higher than Bruce, Al, David, and Carl. Brian, and Mike himself, apparently agreed — check my sig below…  ;D

I know.

Seemed more like you were making fun of his accent, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ah OK, no — I thought it was cool that he has enough affection for his BBoy time to do the song, and I thought it sounded good, and it was charming to see him in a modest setting like that one.  He seems like a cool cat.

I'm so grateful that David Marks was included that I don't want to complain.

Right. I must admit that after the first buzz about the idea of Blondie and Ricky being part of this, it kinda got aside for me. To make so much noise about them having to be part of it gives this whole great idea of the reunion a bad taste. But after Stamos was included it lit up for me again. But as you say, we should be grateful and happy for this reunion, although Blondie and Ricky deserve to at least be mentioned as more than just a side note.

Meh. I guess that I've seen Carl perform it live so often that I'm spoiled for anybody else, even the original lead vocalist.

Hasn't Desper said he has an original version from '71 with a Carl lead?

I'd love it if Blondie and Ricky were included but, to be frank, they've escaped that whole surf/sunshine web that's ensnared the likes of Foskett and even David Marks, for so long – whether they've wanted/needed it or not, that they certainly don't need to fall back on it. If they take part, I hope it'll be for the fun of it and not out of any sense of obligation or desperation.

I think it's about time this topic be removed as a sticky.

I still don't understand the push for them anyway

They are the only living Beach Boys not included in the reunion. As good a reason for a push as any.

The topic is obsolete by now, it seems.

Where's the Glenn Campbell thread

Glen Campbell, aside from being pretty much retired at this point due to his Alzheimer's, was never an official Beach Boy.

Yes, put the Jeff thread up here instead. I'm not done ranting :p

Neither was Hal Blaine, but I'd rather have those two playing on a new album recording than have a new song by the flame on there

I agree that having new Blondie and/or Ricky songs on the new BB album would be kinda lame. Especially after all this time. But then again I don't really see how a new David Marks composition would really make sense on this album either, seeing as how he has written 0.00 percent of The Beach Boys material. I know Jon Stebbins will get mad at me for this, as David is actually better than Eric Clapton, Peter Green, and Jimi Hendrix combined, and had he stayed with the BB, he'd have brought world peace.

But yeah, and I know this brings this thread back to "that place", but I don't get why David is featured and Blondie and Ricky continue to be looked at as footnotes to the BB story.

You don't know how to make a record.

Material should be and is often chosen for its appropriateness to the project. Granted, sometimes there are bones thrown, favors granted and  politics considered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk_XLf5puC8

if arranged in a certain way, this would be a great Beach Boys song.

I have no interest at all in hearing a new David Marks song (or no more interest than I would in any other random musician) but the most obvious reason why David would be featured and Blondie & Ricky not is that David is a founding member of the band, and he played on a lot of their most famous songs and biggest hits. If you're going to go on stage and say that you're reuniting the band that recorded Surfin' USA, Surfin' Safari, Surfer Girl. Little Deuce Coupe, 409, Shut Down, In My Room and so on, it makes sense to have every living member of the band that recorded those songs on stage.

On the other hand, Blondie and Ricky played on none of the hits, and were in the band when their records were barely selling. If we're *very* lucky we may get as many as three songs from the time they were in the band (Sail On Sailor, All This Is That, California) on the tour, only one of which either of them sang on. I'd certainly like to see them with the band, but the fact is that they joined the band the vast majority of the music they're loved for (whether by dedicated fans like us or casual listeners) had already been recorded.

blondie and ricky are great at what they do.  but they never feel like anything but a band within a band to me.  I usually skip their songs when i listen to holland and passions.  we got love is a greeeat song though. 

Before this thread disappears (and not thinking that it would be right to make another thread about it) I saw Ricky playing drums for Bonnie Raitt tonight on David Letterman and it was great (him and the whole band). They did a very inventive cover version of "Right Down The Line".

I wish there was a video of that, I just checked the letterman site and they don't have it there.

I'd like to sign a petition to get Ricky back with The Rutles.

I saved it on my dvr. I wish I had my desktop here (the one I use to make movies with). Funnily enough I'm going to get all that and all of the rest of my stuff next month. i just checked YouTube and there is no video for it yet but there is a performance on Ellen and an official music video. Search "Bonnie Raitt Right Down The Line" and you will find at least 2 performances.

I just checked out her album, and there's a song called God Only Knows on there! but it's not the Beach Boys song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6rwIQKawfU&feature=related

Y'all need to lrn2google.

Thanks for that stack-o-tracks, Ricky looks great and his drumming is as solid and classy as ever.

Speaking of Bonnie Raitt, she's on Colbert right now.

"we got love is a greeeat song though."

Man, isn't it though?  I love that song.

So: can we remove the sticky from this topic already?

yes, we can

I'm sick of Blondie and Ricky already. :o

Ricky is a class guy. 
Blondie is a piece of crap and doesn't deserve mention in the same thread with Mr Fataar

Why's that? What did Blondie do?

He chose to disrespect a good friend of mine, time and again; a friend  who has always gone the extra mile to sing the praises of Blondie and the Flames.

Blondie was really nice to me when I saw him a few months ago. He small-talked with me for about ten minutes just because he knew I wanted to talk to him.

(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/33/2ef458dbc7f90edbe7a8f5236589bc87/l.jpg)

After one of the Brian/Al-shows. Bonnie Raitt was in town and Ricky joined Brian and Al on "Surfin' USA" IIRC