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Author Topic: "On A Holiday" 1996 illustration  (Read 16831 times)
seltaeb1012002
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2011, 11:00:00 AM »

Great info, thanks for the find!
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2011, 11:01:41 AM »

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Are we certain that this illustration was done in '96? Did anyone see this illustration prior to 2004? Did Mr. Holmes specifically state that he did the illustration in '96?

The key question. AGD?

OK, here is my question, exactly as sent to Frank:

"I have a question about the 1996 illustration you did that has "ukulele lady Lili" and the Milky Way bar in it - did you do that from any of your old lyric sheets, or did Van Dyke clue you in, or did you just do it off your own bat ? Reason I'm asking is that when Brian did his 2004 version of Smile, there are some lyrics in it that seem to relate very precisely to that illustration."

Note, I expressly specified "old lyric sheets".

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Wirestone
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« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2011, 11:09:57 AM »

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Seriously, it's dumbass responses like yours that make me give serious thought to saying "f*ck it, the next time I do a bit of asking around and unearth some new info, I'm not telling anyone because some sh*tweasel is going to say it's nonsense". Frank did illustrations in 1966, 1996 and 2000, not in 2003. He gave back all the lyric sheets he had in 2003. Which part of this keeps bouncing off your thick skull ?

None of it, given that I didn't know that information before.

And I wouldn't have known it unless I asked about it. So there you go.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2011, 11:32:49 AM »

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Seriously, it's dumbass responses like yours that make me give serious thought to saying "f*ck it, the next time I do a bit of asking around and unearth some new info, I'm not telling anyone because some sh*tweasel is going to say it's nonsense". Frank did illustrations in 1966, 1996 and 2000, not in 2003. He gave back all the lyric sheets he had in 2003. Which part of this keeps bouncing off your thick skull ?

None of it, given that I didn't know that information before.

And I wouldn't have known it unless I asked about it.
So there you go.

Everything I stated above regarding Frank's illustrations has been mentioned on this forum more than once and very recently. It's not classified info: you didn't need to ask, all you had to do was read, and retain.
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« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2011, 12:26:20 PM »

Specifically, I hadn't heard about the 2000 Holmes work. I don't think there have been any references to it here -- I did a quick search of the archives and didn't see any. Also, I hadn't heard that he "gave back" the lyric sheets in 2003. I had always assumed he provided BW and Darian with copies of some sort.

Anyway, in retrospect the backdating thing does sound silly. But at least two other posters within the last month or so have suggested the possibility, so it wasn't an original thought or question.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 12:56:55 PM by Wirestone » Logged
Roger Ryan
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« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2011, 12:37:26 PM »

Thank you for the clarification AGD...and I'm sorry for stirring up the hornet's nest.

I was taken aback when I spied the "Holidays" illustration in the TSS book with the "1996" copyright. I thought perhaps that Mr. Holmes had done one more illustration in 2004 to make his SMiLE collection complete (perhaps with the intent of the artwork being used for BWPS?) and that the "1996" copyright was put on by mistake - just a way to denote all the non-1966 illustrations. I certainly wasn't suggesting that anything nefarious was going on here, just a potential oversight.

Now we have confirmation that the drawing is based on (presumably) vintage 1966 lyrics. This certainly goes a long way to establish that "Holidays" was indeed closely related to "Do You Like Worms?" with its use of Hawaiian imagery.

I'm curious - what SMiLE-oriented illustrations did Mr. Holmes do in 2000?
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2011, 02:26:41 PM »

Thank You AGD!!  Afro

I am of the opinion that the "Rock Rock Roll, Plynouth Rock Roll Over" part is vintage as well as at least most of the melody. I base this opinion on the notion that Brian would not have laid down an instrumental track without a melody in mind, and also because of the way everything fits so perfectly with the track (melodically speaking).

I have thought about this often, but how much knowledge of SMiLE was retained by Brian through the years. We all know about his contribution to the end of Surf's Up in 1971, but what else did he remember, and for how long? After all, SMiLE was his magnum opus....

Once again, thanx AGD.
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JohnMill
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2011, 04:57:16 PM »

Thank you for the clarification AGD...and I'm sorry for stirring up the hornet's nest.

I was taken aback when I spied the "Holidays" illustration in the TSS book with the "1996" copyright. I thought perhaps that Mr. Holmes had done one more illustration in 2004 to make his SMiLE collection complete (perhaps with the intent of the artwork being used for BWPS?) and that the "1996" copyright was put on by mistake - just a way to denote all the non-1966 illustrations. I certainly wasn't suggesting that anything nefarious was going on here, just a potential oversight.

Now we have confirmation that the drawing is based on (presumably) vintage 1966 lyrics. This certainly goes a long way to establish that "Holidays" was indeed closely related to "Do You Like Worms?" with its use of Hawaiian imagery.

I'm curious - what SMiLE-oriented illustrations did Mr. Holmes do in 2000?

I'm going strictly from memory and I don't have any specific titles for you but I remember around ten years ago in the era of "The SMiLE Shop", Holmes had a website and was selling prints of all of his SMiLE artwork to fans.  Maybe he did up some new illustrations around this time for this purpose?

PS: Hate to nag but does anyone have any guesses on what the illustration next to "Barnyard" in TSS booklet represents?  I understand the illustrations are grouped in relation to the songs they are depicting but I don't see how the mystery illustration has any relation to any song in the first movement.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 04:58:11 PM by JohnMill » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2011, 03:42:31 PM »

I'll second that. I cannot for the life of me work out what that brick thing is suposed to represent.
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« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2011, 11:05:58 PM »

"I have a question about the 1996 illustration you did that has "ukulele lady Lili" and the Milky Way bar in it - did you do that from any of your old lyric sheets, or did Van Dyke clue you in, or did you just do it off your own bat ? Reason I'm asking is that when Brian did his 2004 version of Smile, there are some lyrics in it that seem to relate very precisely to that illustration."

Got a reply from Frank to my question re: the 1996 sketch featuring lyrical references to the 2004 track, thus:

"It all came from the lyrics of Holiday and my own bat as you say. The Milkyway candy bar was an easy way of not dealing with the actual Milky Way (too many stars)."

So... seems that most if not all of those lyrics are vintage.  Smiley

Now it would be interesting what was from "his own bat" and what was vintage lyric. I guess everything we find in both the picture and the BWPS lyrics must be regarded as vintage, but the only way to find out for sure is to ask Mr. Holmes if he made copies of the old lyric sheets before he gave them back...

Anyway, thank you Andrew. Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2011, 02:56:53 AM »

PS: Hate to nag but does anyone have any guesses on what the illustration next to "Barnyard" in TSS booklet represents?  I understand the illustrations are grouped in relation to the songs they are depicting but I don't see how the mystery illustration has any relation to any song in the first movement.

If at all, the "ribbon of concrete" with which nature, the "church of the American Indian" is plastered - notice the adhesive plasters undeneath.

Of course I could be wrong.
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2011, 04:08:40 PM »

PS: Hate to nag but does anyone have any guesses on what the illustration next to "Barnyard" in TSS booklet represents?  I understand the illustrations are grouped in relation to the songs they are depicting but I don't see how the mystery illustration has any relation to any song in the first movement.

As positioned in the book, it supposedly represents "I'm In Great Shape", although none of the imagery seems to relate to the lyric we're aware of (unless we consider something like "tumble out of bed" to be represented by a roller coaster). Perhaps the phrase "built like a brick house" is the metaphor here for being in great shape, but I'm thinking that maybe the illustration represents missing lyrics that Parks wrote, but were not recorded (or recorded but not found).

Another thought: if we assume the original lyric was, indeed, "open country", then the illustration would show that country being divided by fences first and by brick-and-mortar after (following the "Cabin Essence" theme of moving from agrarian to industrial). The structure at the right seems to suggest an artifical oasis built on girders. Again, given how close Mr. Holmes illustrations seem to hew to a given lyric, I suspect there were more words to "I'm In Great Shape" than we currently know about.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 05:36:37 AM by Roger Ryan » Logged
Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2011, 07:55:57 PM »

I think it's a "brick ****-house". Looks like a brick turd to me.
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Summertime Blooz
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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2011, 08:49:33 PM »

Thank you for the clarification AGD...and I'm sorry for stirring up the hornet's nest.

I was taken aback when I spied the "Holidays" illustration in the TSS book with the "1996" copyright. I thought perhaps that Mr. Holmes had done one more illustration in 2004 to make his SMiLE collection complete (perhaps with the intent of the artwork being used for BWPS?) and that the "1996" copyright was put on by mistake - just a way to denote all the non-1966 illustrations. I certainly wasn't suggesting that anything nefarious was going on here, just a potential oversight.

Now we have confirmation that the drawing is based on (presumably) vintage 1966 lyrics. This certainly goes a long way to establish that "Holidays" was indeed closely related to "Do You Like Worms?" with its use of Hawaiian imagery.

I'm curious - what SMiLE-oriented illustrations did Mr. Holmes do in 2000?
Is there any possibility that Holidays was actually a part of DYLW-  like an insert? That would at least explain why it's not on the track listing from December 66. Or, it occurs to me, if Holidays is the last section of DYLW and it ends with that whispering winds section that could have it lead right into Wind Chimes. Of course on the Dec 66 tracklist Wind Chimes follows DYLW.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 09:01:02 PM by krabklaw » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2011, 04:53:54 AM »

Of course on the Dec 66 tracklist Wind Chimes follows DYLW.

"See Label For Correct Playing Order"

Also, where and why has it been theorized that "Holidays" and "Do You Like Worms?" were linked in any significant way? BWPS re-uses the "Rock, rock, roll" chant, true, but it does this several times throughout the record in ways that didn't exist at all on any original '66 and '67 versions.

Two and a half minutes would be a f*ck of a long insert. Again, I don't think the December '66 list of songs (not tracklist) should have any kind of stock put into it for a number of obvious reasons.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 04:55:56 AM by runnersdialzero » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2011, 05:35:35 AM »

Of course on the Dec 66 tracklist Wind Chimes follows DYLW.

"See Label For Correct Playing Order"

Also, where and why has it been theorized that "Holidays" and "Do You Like Worms?" were linked in any significant way?

It has been suggested here that on the "Holidays" session track on TSS, one can faintly hear Brian singing "Do You Like Worms?" lyrics as he demonstrates how the "Holidays" melody and rhythm should go.
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runnersdialzero
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« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2011, 05:48:15 AM »

Oh, that. Eh, while I'm not authority on the matter and am listening to the same extremely sketchy and hard to discern recording as the rest of you, I didn't hear any "Worms" lyrics when listening to that bit over and over.

The revelation that the '04 version's lyrics are partially based upon or just outright are the '66 lyrics (I'd have to guess the former) kind of shoots this theory down even more.
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« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2011, 11:59:17 AM »

Oh, that. Eh, while I'm not authority on the matter and am listening to the same extremely sketchy and hard to discern recording as the rest of you, I didn't hear any "Worms" lyrics when listening to that bit over and over.

The revelation that the '04 version's lyrics are partially based upon or just outright are the '66 lyrics (I'd have to guess the former) kind of shoots this theory down even more.

Completely agree with you on this. I mentioned this on the TSS sub-board, but thought I'd throw it on here as well: re-listening to the "Holidays" session highlights yesterday, I'm thinking that the bit of lyric Brian is heard singing is "...and Liliuola Kalani will sing to me"!
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« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2013, 05:32:28 PM »

So Frank and I were exchanging emails recently, and I brought up the Holidays illustration in hopes of gleaning some more info.

My question: "The book included with the box set features an illustration of yours, dated 1996, that appears to accompany the song "Holidays" (the lazy moon, the ukulele lady, the Milky Way bar, etc.).  However, I was under the impression that "Holidays" didn't have lyrics until the music was revived in 2003-04.   Did Brian and/or Van Dyke provide those lyrics to you in the 1966-67 era?  Do you still have the lyric sheet you used to create that illustration?"

His (terse but direct) answer: "No lyrics from Brian or VDP. Holidays date mistake."

Humph.
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« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2013, 02:44:49 AM »

Eh?
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« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2013, 05:23:49 AM »

Perfect illustration of the perils and pitfalls of researching not only BB but also plain rock history. Not only do different folk remember the same event in sometimes diametrically opposed ways, but worse, the same person can remember an event differently as time passes. Question being, which is the more accurate recall ?
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« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2013, 10:50:40 AM »

Curiouser and curiouser...
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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2013, 01:25:01 AM »

Question being, which is the more accurate recall ?

The one I want to believe of course!
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« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2013, 03:19:06 AM »

... is the correct answer !  Cool
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« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2013, 06:15:16 AM »

Interesting that this thread has been resuscitated and shows AGD behaving like a cantankerous curmudgeonly codger 18 months ago in exactly the same way as he does now. Even when other posters suggested things that were then backed up by the people in question...

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