What Happened with Brian and the Band after Friends?

[Cam Mott]

As I remember Steve Desper described it as what he saw as a process of Brian recognizing that the rest of the band had talents too. Something like that. It used to be archived under Desper on Mike Wheeler's board Cabinessence. I suppose someone could ask him on his child board.

[bgas]

As I remember Steve Desper described it as what he saw as a process of Brian recognizing that the rest of the band had talents too. Something like that. It used to be archived under Desper on Mike Wheeler's board Cabinessence. I suppose someone could ask him on his child board.

Except he( desper) doesn't like to post on Smiley any more; the programming here is evidently not compatible with his computer and makes it intensely laborious for him.

[Rocker]

iirc Desper mentioned the time Brian worked on Break Away as something like a return of the old Brian and that everyone stood behind him. But then it bombed....

[DonnyL]

I think that Brian was satisfied with 'Friends' and let the rest of the group carry on, helping them out here and there.  The man deserved a break and had made most of his major statements by that time.  Brian has stated more than once that 'Friends' was his favorite Beach Boys album, and has also noted that it was the first record that didn't have any mistakes.

[Cam Mott]

As I remember Steve Desper described it as what he saw as a process of Brian recognizing that the rest of the band had talents too. Something like that. It used to be archived under Desper on Mike Wheeler's board Cabinessence. I suppose someone could ask him on his child board.

Except he( desper) doesn't like to post on Smiley any more; the programming here is evidently not compatible with his computer and makes it intensely laborious for him.

As I remember Steve Desper described it as what he saw as a process of Brian recognizing that the rest of the band had talents too. Something like that. It used to be archived under Desper on Mike Wheeler's board Cabinessence. I suppose someone could ask him on his child board.

Except he( desper) doesn't like to post on Smiley any more; the programming here is evidently not compatible with his computer and makes it intensely laborious for him.

Someone could ask him privately.

[anazgnos]

One thing I don't get about the commercial failure of Friends and Sunflower is how did these records not sell while The Carpenters did? It's fairly obvious that not only the gruffest of rock groups could sell large amounts of records at that point in time when even the Ohio Express could make it big.

That said, I wasn't even born by then so it's hard for me to put myself in the position of a 1968/1970 record buyer.

That a really interesting question, but my gut feeling is that the Carpenters were already kind of an anomaly in their time period.  They were part of a much more heavily groomed, whitebread cookie cutter AM radio world that was already kind of vanishing...they were being pitched to the "silent majority", not the heads.  The Beach Boys for good or ill followed the FM-radio "rock cred" path, however poorly it treated them, but they probably didn't feel like they had any other options, since by then Dennis & Carl were waking up artistically and more and more interested in following their own path.

Nowadays the Carpenters pop craftsmanship is well recognized, and rightly so, but they were anything but hip at the time.  For the Beach Boys to have followed that path, you have to imagine them clean-shaven, coiffed like 1964, and still wearing the striped shirts well into the 70s.  I'll be Murry would have been more than happy to keep them going in that direction!

[SMiLE Brian]

One thing I don't get about the commercial failure of Friends and Sunflower is how did these records not sell while The Carpenters did? It's fairly obvious that not only the gruffest of rock groups could sell large amounts of records at that point in time when even the Ohio Express could make it big.

That said, I wasn't even born by then so it's hard for me to put myself in the position of a 1968/1970 record buyer.

That a really interesting question, but my gut feeling is that the Carpenters were already kind of an anomaly in their time period.  They were part of a much more heavily groomed, whitebread cookie cutter AM radio world that was already kind of vanishing...they were being pitched to the "silent majority", not the heads.  The Beach Boys for good or ill followed the FM-radio "rock cred" path, however poorly it treated them, but they probably didn't feel like they had any other options, since by then Dennis & Carl were waking up artistically and more and more interested in following their own path.

Nowadays the Carpenters pop craftsmanship is well recognized, and rightly so, but they were anything but hip at the time.  For the Beach Boys to have followed that path, you have to imagine them clean-shaven, coiffed like 1964, and still wearing the striped shirts well into the 70s.  I'll be Murry would have been more than happy to keep them going in that direction!

The Beach Boys being clean cut in the 1970s with striped shirts is a truly scary idea.

[Zach95]

One thing I don't get about the commercial failure of Friends and Sunflower is how did these records not sell while The Carpenters did? It's fairly obvious that not only the gruffest of rock groups could sell large amounts of records at that point in time when even the Ohio Express could make it big.

That said, I wasn't even born by then so it's hard for me to put myself in the position of a 1968/1970 record buyer.

That a really interesting question, but my gut feeling is that the Carpenters were already kind of an anomaly in their time period.  They were part of a much more heavily groomed, whitebread cookie cutter AM radio world that was already kind of vanishing...they were being pitched to the "silent majority", not the heads.  The Beach Boys for good or ill followed the FM-radio "rock cred" path, however poorly it treated them, but they probably didn't feel like they had any other options, since by then Dennis & Carl were waking up artistically and more and more interested in following their own path.

Nowadays the Carpenters pop craftsmanship is well recognized, and rightly so, but they were anything but hip at the time.  For the Beach Boys to have followed that path, you have to imagine them clean-shaven, coiffed like 1964, and still wearing the striped shirts well into the 70s.  I'll be Murry would have been more than happy to keep them going in that direction!

The Beach Boys being clean cut in the 1970s with striped shirts is a truly scary idea.

I think the Beach Boys looking the way they did in the 70s was scary enough in itself , i.e. Mike Love

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I think in some ways there is a similarity between the BBs and Pink Floyd. Although, commercially it was the opposite. You had the era where Syd Barrett was the leader of the band. But he soon drifted away and the rest of the group took over. Although the commercial success was reversed. With Pink Floyd they became much bigger after Syd Barrett was gone.

[runnersdialzero]

With Pink Floyd they became much bigger after Syd Barrett was gone.

And worlds upon worlds worse, where as the other guys in teh beach boiz, with a bit of Brian's help as an adhesive agent of some sorts, managed to keep it together (albeit not with much commercial success).

[kookadams]

They still made good albums after Friends! 20/20 , Sunflower , Surf's Up, Holland and Love You are all good!!! And Friends wasn't the last BW album, he was very much involved with Sunflower and Love You; maybe not so much on 20/20, Surf's Up and Holland (sept Sailor & Funky Pretty),,, By the mid 70s it didn't even matter anyway- all bands have their issues and especially a super-group like the Beach Boys. I don't get why I always see people bitching bout their struggles and Brian going crazy or whatever, who the f*** cares?? The important thing bout them is their astonishing legacy and phenomenal body of music. The mid 70s onward belonged to the Ramones and the re-emergence of rock n' roll thru punk; and the Ramones owe everything to the Beach Boys. Even though the Beach Boys after Love You you didn't make another landmark album it doesn't matter!!! No group in history has made as many great records, not even the goshdarn Beatles, I don't care what anyone says.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

With Pink Floyd they became much bigger after Syd Barrett was gone.

And worlds upon worlds worse, where as the other guys in teh beach boiz, with a bit of Brian's help as an adhesive agent of some sorts, managed to keep it together (albeit not with much commercial success).

I love the Syd Barrett era. But in my opinion, Dark Side of the Moon was their best album. No need to argue about it, these are just opinions.

[runnersdialzero]

With Pink Floyd they became much bigger after Syd Barrett was gone.

And worlds upon worlds worse, where as the other guys in teh beach boiz, with a bit of Brian's help as an adhesive agent of some sorts, managed to keep it together (albeit not with much commercial success).

I love the Syd Barrett era. But in my opinion, Dark Side of the Moon was their best album. No need to argue about it, these are just opinions.

I know = ) I just enjoy mentioning my fondness of the Syd era and my lack of fondness of everything after it for the sole purpose of baffling people. It's a good time. Or maybe it isn't.

[cablegeddon]

I think the total commercial failure of Friends was the final nail in the coffin. But, there plenty of nails before it.

In my humble estimation, the commercial failure of Holland was the final nail in the coffin. After that they had little ambition other than to make money.

Holland did ok with sales and garnered quite a bit of critical praise. The commercial success of Endless Summer and the concert crowd may have stymied ambition in that era. With the huge turn toward nostalgia around 1973, people didn't want to hear anything but their back catalog from that point on. It was a shame, because they worked hard to get back in good graces with the U.S. fan base, and by 1973-74 that success came back to bite them on the creative side of things.

According to Gaines in H&V it was commercial failure, and looking and the chart performance it looks like it. Great point about the nostalgia factor though!

I also found it interesting that post-Pet Sounds, Add some music and Sail on Sailor were BB's two most anticipated and promoted singles and they both underperformed. So basically the labels put all their strenght behind the songs.

So I sit and listen to these two songs and try to figure out what's wrong with them. Sail on Sailor was FM-rock but FM-Rock stations would never play BB, not in a hundred years. With Add some music it's probably more to do with the song itself.

[Mahalo]

I wish that someone other than Blondie sang lead on SOS. Live it would be really cool, but for the album-no. It loses that Beach Boys vox blend. So sad considering how awesome of a song it is.

[MBE]

With Pink Floyd they became much bigger after Syd Barrett was gone.

And worlds upon worlds worse, where as the other guys in teh beach boiz, with a bit of Brian's help as an adhesive agent of some sorts, managed to keep it together (albeit not with much commercial success).

I love the Syd Barrett era. But in my opinion, Dark Side of the Moon was their best album. No need to argue about it, these are just opinions.

I know = ) I just enjoy mentioning my fondness of the Syd era and my lack of fondness of everything after it for the sole purpose of baffling people. It's a good time. Or maybe it isn't.

I also love the Syd era. I like most of the sixties and seventies stuff without him too, but not nearly to the same degree. They were all fairly unquie musicians, but Syd had a special quality that made you feel good. Nobody wrote or played like him, he was a true original.

Brian after Friends wanted to be a part of The Beach Boys but not completely in charge. At least through Surf's Up he had a lot of say in the music and relationships were solid. After mid 1971 he lost some interest, for many reasons, but for a time him the group dynamic worked with him being a contributer as opposed to a leader. Sometimes he resented the change, other times he welcomed it. Being deaf in one ear as stereo became a requirement didn't help at all, and yes I agree that he didn't want to stifle the others. The Desper era was a happy time in many ways, as much as he did have periods where he wasn't running full throttle, I still feel he was better then than anytime since.

[oldsurferdude]

I think the total commercial failure of Friends was the final nail in the coffin. But, there plenty of nails before it.

In my humble estimation, the commercial failure of Holland was the final nail in the coffin. After that they had little ambition other than to make money.

Holland did ok with sales and garnered quite a bit of critical praise. The commercial success of Endless Summer and the concert crowd may have stymied ambition in that era. With the huge turn toward nostalgia around 1973, people didn't want to hear anything but their back catalog from that point on. It was a shame, because they worked hard to get back in good graces with the U.S. fan base, and by 1973-74 that success came back to bite them on the creative side of things.

According to Gaines in H&V it was commercial failure, and looking and the chart performance it looks like it. Great point about the nostalgia factor though!

I also found it interesting that post-Pet Sounds, Add some music and Sail on Sailor were BB's two most anticipated and promoted singles and they both underperformed. So basically the labels put all their strenght behind the songs.

So I sit and listen to these two songs and try to figure out what's wrong with them. Sail on Sailor was FM-rock but FM-Rock stations would never play BB, not in a hundred years. With Add some music it's probably more to do with the song itself.

Better check that "hundred years" thing again-Sunflower, SU, and Holland all garnered major FM airplay in this market-I was very pleased indeed.

[drbeachboy]

I can't speak for Sunflower, but Surf's Up got some air play here in Philly on WMMR, and CATP and Holland received decent air play on KDKB in Phoenix. Even cuts from In Concert were played on KDKB. Holland got into the mid-30's on the U.S. charts, so it did ok, not great, but not bad, either.

[Alex]

I just wish classic rock stations nowadays would play some BBs every now and then. Just throw on some Marcella, SOS, or Trader on between the endless repeats of Zeppelin, Boston, ZZ Top, Foreigner, Journey, and the Stones.

[Mikie]

They do.  You just have to listen to the right stations.  Try Serius/XM radio. Deep Tracks, Underground Garage, and the other Classic station. The Loft played a live version Saturday of Good Vibrations that I don't think I've heard before. Outstanding version.

[oldsurferdude]

I can't speak for Sunflower, but Surf's Up got some air play here in Philly on WMMR, and CATP and Holland received decent air play on KDKB in Phoenix. Even cuts from In Concert were played on KDKB. Holland got into the mid-30's on the U.S. charts, so it did ok, not great, but not bad, either.

Ed Sciaky(RIP), Micheal Tearson(now on Sirrius-XM), Luke O'Reilly, and others on 'MMR were all into the band. Ed played Dierdre, IAT, ASM, TITM, and CCW from Sunflower consistantly. SU programming included FF, DGNTW, SDT, and TID. In fact, Tearson played the entire SU album the day of it's release at midnight. Needless to say, I had the Tandberg rolling. CATP  got very little attention with Holland doing well with SOS, LTT, FP, Trader, and Steamboat. After that, the only current cut that got any airplay was ACH on 'IOQ courtesy of Mike Tozzi.

[Mikie]

In the past three weeks I've heard stuff from the new Smile set - mainly Heroes & Villains and Vegetables and Surf's Up on Little Steven's Underground Garage. Steven Van Zandt is a big Brian/Beach Boys fan as are the other DJ's like Andrew Loog Oldham (Stones producer) and Hansome Dick Manitoba. Tom Petty plays 70's Beach Boys on his show on Deep Tracks. I've heard Sail On Sailor and Marcella and Feel Flows on Deep Tracks.

[drbeachboy]

I can't speak for Sunflower, but Surf's Up got some air play here in Philly on WMMR, and CATP and Holland received decent air play on KDKB in Phoenix. Even cuts from In Concert were played on KDKB. Holland got into the mid-30's on the U.S. charts, so it did ok, not great, but not bad, either.

Ed Sciaky(RIP), Micheal Tearson(now on Sirrius-XM), Luke O'Reilly, and others on 'MMR were all into the band. Ed played Dierdre, IAT, ASM, TITM, and CCW from Sunflower consistantly. SU programming included FF, DGNTW, SDT, and TID. In fact, Tearson played the entire SU album the day of it's release at midnight. Needless to say, I had the Tandberg rolling. CATP  got very little attention with Holland doing well with SOS, LTT, FP, Trader, and Steamboat. After that, the only current cut that got any airplay was ACH on 'IOQ courtesy of Mike Tozzi.

Yeah, when I moved back to Philly in early 1980, Sciaky, Tozzi and company at WIOQ played The Beach Boys a lot. L.A., KTSA and Carl's first solo album all got decent airplay from all the jocks there. Even in 1985 they debuted that album and played a few cuts from it over the next few months.

[jabba2]

I believe Brian had locked himself in his room by 1971 and was doing very little studio work. Maybe it was the drugs, thorazine or whatever but he was not active in many ways. I always thought Brian had done alot of work up until Sunflower, with the band pitching in for Sunflower and 20/20 but they were still overwhelmingly Brian records, with just less creative influence from Brian. Carl and the Passions and SU only had a few tracks with Brians involvement from what I have read.

[MBE]

1971 he was fairly active during Surf's Up and the early stages of Spring. 1972 was really when he was not there more than he was there in the studio. I was surprised by that too, but Desper makes it clear in his book that Brian took an interest in 1971 though he wasn't writing as much as before. This was confirmed by Desper and listening to the Surf's Up LP. He plays on most of the tracks, and sings on them too. SDT and LAT are the only ones he didn't do much if anything at all.