What Happened with Brian and the Band after Friends?

[mammy blue]

Something significant happened with the BB after Friends. I've done a search regarding this subject but haven't been able to find a lot of discussion about it.

Friends seems to be the last "Brian" album until the "comeback" period. The group takeover truly begins, for the first time, with 20/20. The question is, why?

Brian seems to be really stepping back into the fold with Friends. The arrangements are becoming more elaborate again, and he's starting to engage more with the Wrecking crew. That leads us into the early sessions for the followup to Friends, which are very interesting. Brian is still actively composing and arranging great tracks like Ol' Man River, We're Together Again, Sail Plane Song and Walk On By. I just love this material but ultimately none of it makes it on the next album, although if I recall correctly, Do It Again is also started during this time.

Then, suddenly the sessions go in a completely different direction with I Can Hear Music, Bluebirds, All I Want to Do, etc etc. Brian seems to have very little to do with any of this.

What happened? Did Brian voluntarily step back after the poor chart placing of Friends, or was there a group intervention? The Carlin book refers to Mike Love making disparaging comments about Brian's "obsessive" work on Ol' Man River, telling him that the group didn't want to work on it anymore. That event seems to still sting for Brian, even today.

I'd love to read some insights on this fascinating period when Brian *really* seemed to step down, and the group asserted creative control.

[letsmakeit31]

Interesting Point. Maybe it had something to do with the arrive of his kids?? (Not a bad thing but maybe he stepped back into his new family).
Or the start of his hard drug use (a bad thing of course!!) Or When the Beach Boys was trying to find a new record deal, and Brian didn't wanna know or care to carry on??.

[Loaf]

There was a lack of commercial success, the downward trend exacerbating, which hurt him, and an increase in mental health issues.

The rest of the band pitched it in with what they had for 20/20, then really took the reins with Sunflower.

[letsmakeit31]

I so wish that Brian had access to all the good drugs and help that we have today to help his Mental Health issues. But its so easy to look back in hindsight

[drbeachboy]

To me, Brian didn't seem to push himself in a more commercial direction. Sales of SS, WH, and Friends were not amounting to anything near what they used to be prior to this period. Record Labels want hits. Capitol, and later Warner's gave the Beach Boys fits for lack of good singles material. I think the band took their careers in their own hands, and tried to do what Brian was not willing or couldn't do for them; make them a viable, relevant rock band again, at least here in the U.S..

[bossaroo]

didn't Murry sell the publishing in 1969? that must have had a huge effect.

also I think Brian was committed to an institution for a short time in '69 or so. I read somewhere that he was never quite the same after being given Thorazine.

seems like he was pretty enthusiastic and involved in the making of Sunflower though. I think the real downward turn came after that.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

didn't Murry sell the publishing in 1969? that must have had a huge effect.

This was my first thought too since it seems like it was a big blow - particularly based on things that Marilyn has said. But as the original post does point out, Brian really does seem to pull away sometime after June of 1968, which does happen to be when the Friends LP is released.

[Dead Parrot]

This was my first thought too since it seems like it was a big blow - particularly based on things that Marilyn has said. But as the original post does point out, Brian really does seem to pull away sometime after June of 1968, which does happen to be when the Friends LP is released.

It was sometime between the recording of Friends and 20/20 , that Brian started using cocaine. Which might have had a lot to do with it, then again it might not. There a plenty of albums out there where the people making them are clearly coked out of their minds. Their usually (but not always) not very good though.

[Andrew G. Doe]

didn't Murry sell the publishing in 1969? that must have had a huge effect.

also I think Brian was committed to an institution for a short time in '69 or so. I read somewhere that he was never quite the same after being given Thorazine.

Summer of '68, which sits nicely between the Friends and 20/20 sessions.

[b00ts]

This was my first thought too since it seems like it was a big blow - particularly based on things that Marilyn has said. But as the original post does point out, Brian really does seem to pull away sometime after June of 1968, which does happen to be when the Friends LP is released.

It was sometime between the recording of Friends and 20/20 , that Brian started using cocaine. Which might have had a lot to do with it, then again it might not. There a plenty of albums out there where the people making them are clearly coked out of their minds. Their usually (but not always) not very good though.

Agreed, but here is the exception that tests the rule: Sgt. Peppers.

[phirnis]

Very interesting topic.

I've heard about the Thorazine thing before and if this is indeed true it is genuinely heartbreaking.

Personally I think the big change was that after Friends, Brian obviously didn't oversee the creative process anymore in terms of making albums. He still wrote lots of new material for the group but 20/20 clearly wasn't his baby.

(That said, do we know whether he was involved in sequencing Sunflower? Never heard anything about that.)

[anazgnos]

Wasn't there also a big blowup over his production of "Time to Get Alone" for Redwood in mid-'68?

[adamghost]

I was gonna say the institutionalization too.  My understanding is that's exactly what happened:  Brian starts getting back in the studio, then breakdown, commitment, then the band takes over.  Never the same after that.  I wasn't aware of the Thorazine angle though.  Forgive my ignorance, but what are the specific effects of that drug?

[Mikie]

It use to be used to control mental patients and for schizophrenics. It alters brain chemistry. It's also an elephant tranquilizer.

[bossaroo]

Thorazine was the first anti-psychotic. Side effects include sedation and amnesia.

Thelonious Monk was also given Thorazine which seemed to drastically decrease his creative output in the 60s

[cablegeddon]

BW wanted to quit BB at the time and become a producer. Darlin was written for another band but the band woulnd't allow BW to give the song to another act. He hated BB and I think this was during the time when they were recording in BW's house while BW was hiding in a corner of the house.

[runnersdialzero]

I occasionally wish the group would've splintered in the late 60s. Only occasionally, though, as I'm such a huge fan and am even glad that they still exist in 2011 in some form.

But still, we can't even know half of some of the ugliness that went on between these guys and even in their own lives and minds, and it feels like a fair amount could've been avoided if they'd went their own way when things got especially bad. Some of this stuff just genuinely bums me out to read. It's fascinating, it's interesting, I want to know it as a fan, but damn. :\

At the same time, though, maybe the band breaking up in the late 60s would've ensured Brian becoming complacent and unproductive even sooner, and maybe the band still existing actually kept him alive in that sense. Who knows?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I think the band was still capable of working together until 1977 or so. As the Bill Hinche 1974 dvd shows, they were still getting along ok for the most part. In 1976, they were sort of united behind Brian and his return, but they soon began to tug at him from two directions. Dennis and Carl on the artistic, free drug taking side and Mike and Al on the commercial/nestolgic and meditator clean living side. I read that there was a big fight over Brian that nearly led to the band braking up. Perhaps that would've been the best time. After that, the music became uninspired for the most part.

[I. Spaceman]

I think the total commercial failure of Friends was the final nail in the coffin. But, there plenty of nails before it.

[Newguy562]

Wasn't there also a big blowup over his production of "Time to Get Alone" for Redwood in mid-'68?

yes he had plans to give it to redwood and the boys became angry with this and they made him keep it for them . brian was even crying say he had to give it to them because they were his family.

[runnersdialzero]

Wasn't there also a big blowup over his production of "Time to Get Alone" for Redwood in mid-'68?

yes he had plans to give it to redwood and the boys became angry with this and they made him keep it for them . brian was even crying say he had to give it to them because they were his family.

Wasn't the "they cornered Brian, who was crying" story confirmed to be BS a while back? Or am I thinking of something else?

[drbeachboy]

Wasn't there also a big blowup over his production of "Time to Get Alone" for Redwood in mid-'68?

yes he had plans to give it to redwood and the boys became angry with this and they made him keep it for them . brian was even crying say he had to give it to them because they were his family.

Wasn't the "they cornered Brian, who was crying" story confirmed to be BS a while back? Or am I thinking of something else?

Isn't that Chuck Negron's story of what happened? I don't believe the story was ever corroborated.

[cablegeddon]

I think the total commercial failure of Friends was the final nail in the coffin. But, there plenty of nails before it.

In my humble estimation, the commercial failure of Holland was the final nail in the coffin. After that they had little ambition other than to make money.

[drbeachboy]

I think the total commercial failure of Friends was the final nail in the coffin. But, there plenty of nails before it.

In my humble estimation, the commercial failure of Holland was the final nail in the coffin. After that they had little ambition other than to make money.

Holland did ok with sales and garnered quite a bit of critical praise. The commercial success of Endless Summer and the concert crowd may have stymied ambition in that era. With the huge turn toward nostalgia around 1973, people didn't want to hear anything but their back catalog from that point on. It was a shame, because they worked hard to get back in good graces with the U.S. fan base, and by 1973-74 that success came back to bite them on the creative side of things.

[phirnis]

One thing I don't get about the commercial failure of Friends and Sunflower is how did these records not sell while The Carpenters did? It's fairly obvious that not only the gruffest of rock groups could sell large amounts of records at that point in time when even the Ohio Express could make it big.

That said, I wasn't even born by then so it's hard for me to put myself in the position of a 1968/1970 record buyer.