gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 05:42:20 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE?  (Read 41156 times)
Justin
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2244



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2011, 12:27:16 PM »

Dead Horse

Yeah I figured this was a topic that has been discussed ad infinitum around here but Brian's new story that "Drugs were the real reason he stopped SMiLE" perked my ears.  I had never heard this from him and found it interesting that it's one more story to throw into the bag as to why he really shelved SMiLE. 
Logged
Iron Horse-Apples
Guest
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2011, 12:32:48 PM »

Dead Horse

Yeah I figured this was a topic that has been discussed ad infinitum around here but Brian's new story that "Drugs were the real reason he stopped SMiLE" perked my ears.  I had never heard this from him and found it interesting that it's one more story to throw into the bag as to why he really shelved SMiLE. 

Really?

SMiLE's non appearance due to Brian's drug use was the most common reason given at one point. That was the first reason I knew about.
Logged
Justin
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2244



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2011, 12:39:14 PM »

Really?

SMiLE's non appearance due to Brian's drug use was the most common reason given at one point. That was the first reason I knew about.

The first story I heard was that it was Mike Love's aggressive displeasure for the material to be the number one cause and I ran with that for many years.  It seems that we've all gotten several stories over the years.  I think I"m learning now that it was never just ONE reason but an amalgamation of a few factors that led to Brian bailing on SMiLE. 
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2011, 01:09:12 PM »

Capitol would have fumbled the release ?

They had full page color ads for it in late 1966... they booked studio time for Brian in blocks... they printed 400,000 booklets and were set to manufacture 400,000 sleeves... they sent a message to their sales people in December 1966... they were gasping to have the album to release...

Respectfully, complete nonsense.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
roll plymouth rock
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 549



View Profile WWW
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2011, 01:29:26 PM »

I think SMILE is too f***ed up and promotes drug use. Smiley Smile does too in a lot of ways but its a lot more mellow and harder to get lost in that trip. Smile is a lot of fragments just on a sorta dead-end trip. It doesn't have the cohesive scope I think they set out to acheive
Logged

Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2011, 01:36:09 PM »

Great points being made all around.  It's nice to see such rational and respectful discussion on this issue - that wasn't always possible back in the day.

When you start listing everything Brian had working against him at the time, the fact that he accomplished as much as he did becomes that much more astounding.  He was hit with the "perfect storm" at the worst possible time. 

Brian's quote from the booklet is much more accurate than anything he's been saying in interviews lately.  The drugs and "people weren't ready for it" excuses are nice little PR soundbites, designed to mask the fact that this isn't a story you can just boil down and simplify for public consumption.  We've all spent years discussing these issues, but to the uninitiated, it would be ridiculously overwhelming, and would also have the unintended consequence of distracting from the music, which is ultimately the most important part of the story.
Logged
Justin
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2244



View Profile
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2011, 01:45:16 PM »

Great points being made all around.  It's nice to see such rational and respectful discussion on this issue - that wasn't always possible back in the day.

When you start listing everything Brian had working against him at the time, the fact that he accomplished as much as he did becomes that much more astounding.  He was hit with the "perfect storm" at the worst possible time. 

Brian's quote from the booklet is much more accurate than anything he's been saying in interviews lately.  The drugs and "people weren't ready for it" excuses are nice little PR soundbites, designed to mask the fact that this isn't a story you can just boil down and simplify for public consumption.  We've all spent years discussing these issues, but to the uninitiated, it would be ridiculously overwhelming, and would also have the unintended consequence of distracting from the music, which is ultimately the most important part of the story.


Yes indeed Chris, nice post.  I as well view the quote from the booklet to be the more fair assessment with what went down.  It touches on many subjects without going into laborious details.   For a second though, I thought Brian's latest "drug" story was him finally coming to terms with it and finally revealing the story.  He's been saying with such conviction and very as-a-matter-of-factly that it seemed worth believing.   That Brian is still throwing me for a loop!
Logged
Andy T
Smiley Smile Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 6


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2011, 02:13:22 PM »

Didn't Van Dyke say in a previous interview (something along the lines of) that drugs had no bearing on why Smile being shelved. Brian sounds pretty focused and confident in the studio and the amount of hours of work put in wouldn't have been possible if he was stoned or jacked up. Also in a work environment with all those people around would he want to look wasted in front of them?
Logged
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2011, 02:35:16 PM »

I think SMILE... promotes drug use.

I... what?
Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2011, 02:43:19 PM »

Didn't Van Dyke say in a previous interview (something along the lines of) that drugs had no bearing on why Smile being shelved. Brian sounds pretty focused and confident in the studio and the amount of hours of work put in wouldn't have been possible if he was stoned or jacked up. Also in a work environment with all those people around would he want to look wasted in front of them?

In Beautiful Dreamer he said something to the effect of "don't let drugs confuse the issue."  And his reasoning was basically as you said - if anything, the drugs allowed Brian to work longer hours and get more done.  A very "athletic situation" is the wording I believe he used.

Of course, this doesn't touch on how Brian's mental and emotional stability was impacted by the drugs, which is an issue that shouldn't be overlooked. 
Logged
Firemellow
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2011, 03:21:34 PM »

"The real reason Brian abandoned SMiLE?"


So he could devote more time to keeping the streets of Los Angeles safe from crime, of course.

Is that the reason I felt so safe when I was over there in April this year?  Shocked Shocked

You felt safe there 'cause Phil Spector was safely behind bars.   Wink

Thank God and Brian that the mind gangsters finally had been corralled.   LOL
Logged
CarlTheVoice
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 355



View Profile
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2011, 03:24:15 PM »

I just watched a Leonardo Da Vinci documentary on the BBC and it said he often left paintings incomplete. They said it was probably because he had a vision for the paintings that he just couldn't realise on the canvas so he just gave up. It suddenly got me thinking about Brian and Smile. Perhaps this is a curse of a genius, sometimes you just can't relay what's in your head.
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2011, 03:25:06 PM »

Actually all of the Boys gave the same support to Brian and SMiLE as Dennis did. Theirs' gets overlooked for some reason. There used to be list of the same type of statements of support all voiced by all of Boys during SMiLE.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2011, 03:58:08 PM »

Actually all of the Boys gave the same support to Brian and SMiLE as Dennis did. Theirs' gets overlooked for some reason. There used to be list of the same type of statements of support all voiced by all of Boys during SMiLE.

As I recall (and without my LLVS by my side, I may be wrong), the only other Beach Boy besides Dennis to praise SMiLE in contemporary press articles was Bruce.  Mike praised "Heroes," but not the project as a whole.  Even those were nothing like Dennis' comments at the time - "so good it makes Pet Sounds stink" is a pretty strong statement, and I don't recall any of the Boys saying anything like that at the time, or even in subsequent years.
Logged
The Demon
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 181


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2011, 04:02:18 PM »

Actually all of the Boys gave the same support to Brian and SMiLE as Dennis did. Theirs' gets overlooked for some reason. There used to be list of the same type of statements of support all voiced by all of Boys during SMiLE.

As I recall (and without my LLVS by my side, I may be wrong), the only other Beach Boy besides Dennis to praise SMiLE in contemporary press articles was Bruce.  Mike praised "Heroes," but not the project as a whole.  Even those were nothing like Dennis' comments at the time - "so good it makes Pet Sounds stink" is a pretty strong statement, and I don't recall any of the Boys saying anything like that at the time, or even in subsequent years.

How many were specifically asked about the project, though?  Some of those Smile-era articles on the group seem to focus on their lifestyles and how they function as a band, versus delving into the current project.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2011, 04:54:42 PM »

Say, where's my "nice post"? Cheesy

I think the issue of Capitol's willingness to promote the album is a bit of a red herring in light of other factors. Just a bit, because obviously Capitol was going further than they had done previously for a teenage/pop act in the way they were going gung-ho into the packaging and the creative control given to Brian. *That* is what a smash hit #1 single that gets your band voted more popular than the Beatles will buy in the way of bargaining power.

However...

As I mentioned, a major factor in all of this is the lawsuit. Which, if I'm correct on the timeline, came after the planning for the promotion, the booklet, the artwork, etc. The Beach Boys as a litigant against Capitol had gone public, had basically exposed a practice I'm sure Capitol would have rather hid under their legal carpet, and stood to cost them not only money, future money and the like, but also the most popular band (in England at least) of 1966...as the Boys were threatening to jump ship and cut ties with Capitol. hence, the lump sum back payment *and* the creative freedom of Brother Records.

The lawsuit was a major factor, I'm convinced more in 2011 than I ever was in the past.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
hypehat
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6311



View Profile
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2011, 05:16:37 PM »

Nice post!  Cheesy
Logged

All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?

Quote from: Al Jardine
Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2011, 05:23:10 PM »

Nice post!  Cheesy

Finally!
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Justin
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2244



View Profile
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2011, 05:42:24 PM »

Haha..nice posts guitarfool2002...and great avatar!  I think you are right that the lawsuit may have more to do with the breakdown of events than people realize.  It's yet another component that when mixed with all the other factors...brought things to a crashing halt. 
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2011, 06:26:10 PM »

Maybe my memory was a little foggy but here are some of them for whatever it's worth.

Nov 7 1966

Dennis Wilson: “In my opinion it makes ‘Pet Sounds’ stink - that’s how good it is.“

Published November 19 1966

Al Jardine: “Brian has done some terrific things - he is unbelievably devoted to our music - and there is more to come in the next album we must finish up when we get home.”

Published  December 17 1966

Al Jardine re. “ a very Hawaiian-influenced track, sung in Hawaiian, no less”: “This is by far the best thing we’ve ever done! Everything - the music, lyrics, singing, background - everything is perfect. “

Published January 7 1967

Mike Love: “Our [early] stage act was sort of early rhythm-and-blues - stuff by the Coasters and Chuck Berry. Not too many musical innovations there. Our progress has been slow. Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks. That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months. Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggered. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.”

May 7 67

Bruce Johnston: “I’ve got some tapes at home of the new tracks to be on the ‘Smile’ LP which would blow your mind. All the ideas are new and Brian is coming up with fantastic ideas all the time.”


May 7 1967

Mike Love re. EMI release of Then I Kissed Her: “The record company didn’t even have the decency to put out one of Brian’s own compositions. The reason for the hold up with a new single has simply been that we wanted to give our public the best and the best isn’t ready yet.”

2nd week of July 67

Mike Love: "[re. Heroes and Villians] A new improvement of Brian’s capacities in this job. Once again he knows exactly what we can and what we can’t. There’s a lot of things happening on the record just like ‘Good Vibrations’…The flip is incredible. The title is ’You’re Welcome’. No other lyrics. I don’t know how Brian did it, but there’s no accompaniment. ‘Heroes and Villains’ is going to be released as the first single on our new label, Brothers Records…We are finishing it [the album] now. We knew the title and songs months ago already. Only Brian played the tapes again a few times and found it necessary to skip some songs. I don’t know how many sleeves they can throw out now, just because the lineup of songs and some songs have changed completely. He also said that we were going to make ‘Vegetables’ [the next single] instead. Brian had a photo session in a supermarket at the vegetables and fruit part."

Late 1967/early 1968

Brian Wilson: "Early 1967, I had planned to make an album entitled SMILE. I was working with a guy named Van Dyke Parks, who was collaborating with me on the tunes, and in the process we came up with a song called 'Surf’s Up,' and I performed that with just a piano on a documentary show made on rock music.
The song 'Surf’s Up' that I sang for that documentary never came out on an album, and it was supposed to come out on the SMILE album, and that and a couple of other songs were junked ... because I didn't feel that they ... I don't know why, I just didn't, for some reason, didn't want to put them on
the album ... and the group nearly broke up, actually split up for good over that, that one ... the decision of mine not to put a lot of the things that
we'd cut for the album SMILEY SMILE on the album, and so for like almost a year, we're just now kind of getting back together ... because I didn't
think that the songs really were right for the public at the time, and I didn't have a feeling, a commercial feeling, about some of these songs that
we've never released, and ... maybe I ... some people like to hang onto certain things and ... just as their own little songs that they've written
almost for themselves. And a lot of times, you know, a person will write and will realize later that they're ... it's not commercial, you know, but
what they've written is nice for them, but a lot of people just don't like it."
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6372


Oh for the good old days


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2011, 06:53:27 PM »

Maybe my memory was a little foggy but here are some of them for whatever it's worth.


Published January 7 1967

Mike Love: “Our [early] stage act was sort of early rhythm-and-blues - stuff by the Coasters and Chuck Berry. Not too many musical innovations there. Our progress has been slow. Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks. That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months. Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggered. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.”


Just wondering why this was never brought up during the royalties lawsuit...
Logged

Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2011, 07:21:50 PM »

Maybe my memory was a little foggy but here are some of them for whatever it's worth.


Published January 7 1967

Mike Love: “Our [early] stage act was sort of early rhythm-and-blues - stuff by the Coasters and Chuck Berry. Not too many musical innovations there. Our progress has been slow. Because of Brian being on the road with us. He and I used to write songs. I’d contribute a lyric or rhyme, but actually, the bulk of the work has always been Brian’s. We worked after or during road tours that lasted weeks. That’s enough to kill a person without trying to come up with hit singles every few months. Somehow we did. Then when Brian stopped touring, wham! We were staggered. And he keeps doing this to us! More and more and greater and greater things.”


Just wondering why this was never brought up during the royalties lawsuit...

That is a fantastic point. Why didn't they use this quote? Damn.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Mr. Wilson
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1138


Surfs up around these parts.!


View Profile
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2011, 07:41:37 PM »

Jon Steebins +_ Adam Ghost Are RIGHT.. SORRY if i spelled your names wrong.. Its drugs + Mike + Brian Stopping SMILE;; ALL the BB except DENNIS has REWROTE  HISTORY.. None of the BB liked smile and spacey songs + drug influenced music...  I do understand after ALL these years they might come around to the music.. How could they NOT..??..BUT.. if you have all the music + books + videos + print material.. You will find they all are full of BS..NONE of the BB were willing to go in  this direction .. I stand by this statement,,!!!!!!!!!!! The 5 other BB broke BW heart and slowly; he with drew from BB.. BW is a sensitive soul.. He withdrew + never came fully back to this day...!! And then technology overcame him +he didnt have chuck britz to bounce ideas off of.. The studio musicians were more open to experimentation  than  BB band.. .. THe other 5 BB are responsible for tellin BW dont mess with the formula.... OK i get that.. But what we would have left would be,,.. Mama"s +Papas..association.. Raiders.. Left over beatles.. What we do have is the GREATEST rock + roal band from USA.. The Beach Boys..!!.. Smile is part of that legacy.. If BB came out in late 60"s + 70"s.. BB because of SMILE would have been considered a prog rock band>>> Oh my did i say that.. YES i did.... SMILE rates in prog rock like ..YES .. Procul Harum.... ELP ...Beatles..  Whatever you had from that time..!!What keeps them out of the bands in that GENRE is that they were NOT great soloist on their instruments. Cw in later interviews says he loved smile.... Scuse me.. He thought GV was to far out + so did Bruce..!! UMM..The other 5 BB were POP musicians.. BW was prog rock??pop.. He lost them + had to retreat back to pop rock to reign them in + then he dispersed.. I stand by this statement + i believe BB were the greatest R+R band from USA + GREATEST VOCAL GROUP OF 20 TH CENTURY....!! bUT IM TIRED OF HISTORY BEING re written..pAUL
Logged
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2011, 07:47:12 PM »

Jon Steebins +_ Adam Ghost Are RIGHT.. SORRY if i spelled your names wrong.. Its drugs + Mike + Brian Stopping SMILE;; ALL the BB except DENNIS has REWROTE  HISTORY.. None of the BB liked smile and spacey songs + drug influenced music...  I do understand after ALL these years they might come around to the music.. How could they NOT..??..BUT.. if you have all the music + books + videos + print material.. You will find they all are full of BS..NONE of the BB were willing to go in  this direction .. I stand by this statement,,!!!!!!!!!!! The 5 other BB broke BW heart and slowly; he with drew from BB.. BW is a sensitive soul.. He withdrew + never came fully back to this day...!! And then technology overcame him +he didnt have chuck britz to bounce ideas off of.. The studio musicians were more open to experimentation  than  BB band.. .. THe other 5 BB are responsible for tellin BW dont mess with the formula.... OK i get that.. But what we would have left would be,,.. Mama"s +Papas..association.. Raiders.. Left over beatles.. What we do have is the GREATEST rock + roal band from USA.. The Beach Boys..!!.. Smile is part of that legacy.. If BB came out in late 60"s + 70"s.. BB because of SMILE would have been considered a prog rock band>>> Oh my did i say that.. YES i did.... SMILE rates in prog rock like ..YES .. Procul Harum.... ELP ...Beatles..  Whatever you had from that time..!!What keeps them out of the bands in that GENRE is that they were NOT great soloist on their instruments. Cw in later interviews says he loved smile.... Scuse me.. He thought GV was to far out + so did Bruce..!! UMM..The other 5 BB were POP musicians.. BW was prog rock??pop.. He lost them + had to retreat back to pop rock to reign them in + then he dispersed.. I stand by this statement + i believe BB were the greatest R+R band from USA + GREATEST VOCAL GROUP OF 20 TH CENTURY....!! bUT IM TIRED OF HISTORY BEING re written..pAUL

Yer on drugs, too, my friend.
Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
Micha
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2011, 11:06:25 PM »

"The real reason Brian abandoned SMiLE?"


So he could devote more time to keeping the streets of Los Angeles safe from crime, of course.

Before you came up with this explanation I honestly believed it was Brian's declining mental state that was the main reason. Roll Eyes
Logged

Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
gfx
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.824 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!