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Author Topic: How do YOU think Smile would have went?  (Read 20635 times)
Aegir
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« Reply #175 on: August 10, 2012, 10:24:46 AM »

Or maybe it is about exaggerating the importance of one's own thoughts over preserved, documented, available evidence from the composers and performers themselves, at the very moment of creation.

No, no, Aegir has a point. After all, this is why we don't believe that Do You Like Worms is really called Do You Like Worms, just because Brian off-handedly called it that at the time.

Its written on the f***ing box.

It's off-handedly written on the box. Stop exaggerating.
Even though you're making fun of me, that's really funny.
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Reddiwhip
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« Reply #176 on: August 10, 2012, 11:20:12 AM »

Or maybe it is about exaggerating the importance of one's own thoughts over preserved, documented, available evidence from the composers and performers themselves, at the very moment of creation.

Exactly, which is why MY Smile track lineup is inevitably the correct one:


(Prayer)
H&V
Wonderful
Holiday
Cabin Essence
The Elements (Fire)
Child

GV
Wind
Look
Veg
Worms
Surfs Up




 Grin LIKE
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« Reply #177 on: August 10, 2012, 04:05:49 PM »

all i'm pretty sure about is that Surf's Up would have been the final track of the album. forget whatever happened to BWPS, SU was gonna be the final piece as Brian valued it the most and would have insisted on its inclusion as an ending to the album.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #178 on: August 10, 2012, 04:12:18 PM »

Brian is the one who insisted Surf's Up wasn't the end of the album. Now that my mind has been liberated from trying to make Smile into Sgt. Pepper, the one thing I am absolutely sure of regarding Smile is that Surf's Up wasn't the finale. That's not the way Brian thought in the 60's.
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Cabinessenceking
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« Reply #179 on: August 10, 2012, 04:27:16 PM »

Brian is the one who insisted Surf's Up wasn't the end of the album. Now that my mind has been liberated from trying to make Smile into Sgt. Pepper, the one thing I am absolutely sure of regarding Smile is that Surf's Up wasn't the finale. That's not the way Brian thought in the 60's.

he also said Smile was a happy album, it's the darkest stuff he ever did (until SS ofc  Grin). I can hardly imagine smiling due to the supposed 'happy sounds' inside... I simply smile because the music is heavenly, not that it is happy music in any way.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #180 on: August 10, 2012, 05:13:11 PM »

Brian valued it the most and would have insisted on its inclusion as an ending to the album.


"It's a p*ssy song." - Brian Wilson

It doesn't HAVE to be at the end, but that's where it sounds best on my personal mix.

Vosse said in the '69 interview that it would close the album and there'd be a sort of "ah-men" thing. But that doesn't really mean anything either.

You just got to roll it to your own needs. Which is what I have done. And I've finally nailed it, getting it into a form which works FOR ME. I'm finished worrying about history and what goes where. This is it.  And this is how I've been listening to the music for the past 9 months.  Now I'm at peace and not sitting in front of a computer recording myself singing "A'once upON the Sandwich Isle the social structure steamed upon HawAIIIIIIIII!".
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 05:14:12 PM by Bubba Ho-Tep » Logged
I. Spaceman
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« Reply #181 on: August 10, 2012, 05:39:30 PM »

Now I'm at peace and not sitting in front of a computer recording myself singing "A'once upON the Sandwich Isle the social structure steamed upon HawAIIIIIIIII!".

YES!
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krabklaw
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« Reply #182 on: August 11, 2012, 04:48:13 AM »

All in stereo 'cause I like stereo- this follows the Capitol memo sequence fairly closely with a couple of liberties, notably Wind Chimes is moved to Side 2 to precede The Elements- Air, and IIGS is bumped to follow Vega-Tables to create a Barnyard Suite coupled with The Old Master Painter/ You Were My Sunshine. I'm really good with this version for now. Unless more stuff is discovered, this might be the ultimate Smile mix for me.

SIDE 1
(Intro- Our Prayer) 1:06
Do You Like Worms- (my edit with Holidays edited in) 4:17
Heroes & Villains  (my own edit) 5:44
(Interlude- George Fell Into His French Horn) :56
Surf's Up 4:23
Good Vibrations (my edit with Inspiration edited in) 4:51
Cabin Essence 3:42

SIDE 2
(Intro- He Gives Speeches) 1:10
Wonderful 2:10
Child Is Father Of the Man (my own edit- includes Look aka Song  For Children) 4:38
Wind Chimes 3:08
The Elements
   Air- Second Day 1:15
   Fire- Intro To Fire/ Mrs. O'Leary's Cow 2:15
   Water- Love To Say Dada 1:34
   Earth- I Wanna Be Around/ Friday Night aka Workshop1:26
(Interlude- Brian Falls Into A Piano) 1:26
Vega-Tables 3:51
(Heroes & Villains Reprise) 1:03
I'm In Great Shape (The Barnyard Suite- my own edit- IIGS/Barnyard/Eat A Lot (H&V version)/IIGS) 3:03
The Old Master Painter (TOMP/ You Were My Sunshine/ H&V edit- 'My Children Were Raised'/ Barnshine 3:12

This is my ideal fantasy Smile cut. Really too long to have been released in this form in 1967, but it includes most of my favorite Smile bits, and it flows really great as a unified album IMO.


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Cam Mott
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« Reply #183 on: August 11, 2012, 08:31:05 AM »

I just came across this thread...but just the other day I was wondering the same question.  Brian's "modern" version of Smile has the luxury of digital technology.  He could fit it onto a compact disc...therefore not being constrained by time.  The LP that comes with the boxed set features Brian's complete version...but it's spread over three sides and we all know that the original Smile, if it would have come out, would have been a single LP.  Obviously, Brian's complete version contains material that simply could not have fit onto a standard LP back in 1967.  I've always felt that was one of Brian's biggest issues (and maybe I'm stating the obvious)...what to do with ALL of this material?  How do I put it all together so that it flows...yet fits on one LP?  With the basic editing he would have had access to in 1967 (manually cutting and pasting) I can imagine how it could have just slipped away.  Brian just kept recording and erasing and recording and erasing.  The original LP fell apart because of Brian's inability to complete it.  I wonder if all of this had anything to do with it?

To me the record shows Brian was capable and well on his way to completing SMiLE. The problem wasn't knowing or doing or getting what he wanted, he very deliberately got what he wanted by revising and fine tuning in a very adventurous ways. The problem was that when he got what he wanted it just didn't work for him. Who hasn't planned and worked very hard on something they are very excitied about and get to where you felt it's done and come to the realization you're not that crazy about what you were so excited about?
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« Reply #184 on: August 11, 2012, 09:10:15 AM »

I just came across this thread...but just the other day I was wondering the same question.  Brian's "modern" version of Smile has the luxury of digital technology.  He could fit it onto a compact disc...therefore not being constrained by time.  The LP that comes with the boxed set features Brian's complete version...but it's spread over three sides and we all know that the original Smile, if it would have come out, would have been a single LP.  Obviously, Brian's complete version contains material that simply could not have fit onto a standard LP back in 1967.  I've always felt that was one of Brian's biggest issues (and maybe I'm stating the obvious)...what to do with ALL of this material?  How do I put it all together so that it flows...yet fits on one LP?  With the basic editing he would have had access to in 1967 (manually cutting and pasting) I can imagine how it could have just slipped away.  Brian just kept recording and erasing and recording and erasing.  The original LP fell apart because of Brian's inability to complete it.  I wonder if all of this had anything to do with it?

To me the record shows Brian was capable and well on his way to completing SMiLE. The problem wasn't knowing or doing or getting what he wanted, he very deliberately got what he wanted by revising and fine tuning in a very adventurous ways. The problem was that when he got what he wanted it just didn't work for him. Who hasn't planned and worked very hard on something they are very excitied about and get to where you felt it's done and come to the realization you're not that crazy about what you were so excited about?

Um...never? If I am dissatisfied, it's probably because I didn't get what I want and maybe it's becase I didn't really know exactly what I wanted in the first place. It seems me that that was precisely Brian's problem with completing Smile.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #185 on: August 12, 2012, 11:57:03 AM »

Fair enough, mileage may very.

But it is interesting that Brian had it all planned out before he went into the studio, identified what all of it was and what for and always [I think always ended with a "final" take] but his reasons at the time for not releasing it were he decided it was too artistic, too elaborate,  not relate-able, old fashioned, but not I couldn't get it the way I wanted or I didn't know what I wanted.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #186 on: August 12, 2012, 12:41:55 PM »

Fair enough, mileage may very.

But it is interesting that Brian had it all planned out before he went into the studio, identified what all of it was and what for and always [I think always ended with a "final" take] but his reasons at the time for not releasing it were he decided it was too artistic, too elaborate,  not relate-able, old fashioned, but not I couldn't get it the way I wanted or I didn't know what I wanted.

Then why did the plans for what constituted several of the tracks change on a near-daily basis?
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #187 on: August 12, 2012, 01:37:27 PM »

Fair enough, mileage may very.

But it is interesting that Brian had it all planned out before he went into the studio, identified what all of it was and what for and always [I think always ended with a "final" take] but his reasons at the time for not releasing it were he decided it was too artistic, too elaborate,  not relate-able, old fashioned, but not I couldn't get it the way I wanted or I didn't know what I wanted.

Then why did the plans for what constituted several of the tracks change on a near-daily basis?

Refinement and improvement? Just like GV. The difference: Brian was happy with it when he got it.

Really only H&V and Vt to a lesser extent got much refinement/improvement. The singles, just like GV. The other tracks for the album, not so much: just like PS.  Anyway, that's the way it looks to me.

PS. I said "final take" before but I meant "master take".
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« Reply #188 on: August 12, 2012, 11:27:11 PM »

SU was gonna be the final piece as Brian valued it the most and would have insisted on its inclusion as an ending to the album.

What is your source for this claim?

the one thing I am absolutely sure of regarding Smile is that Surf's Up wasn't the finale. That's not the way Brian thought in the 60's.

How do you know the way Brian thought in the 60's?

All I can say is, I think Surf's Up would make a terrible ending for a record called "SMiLE". That's why I always ended my own mixes with the sequence Surf's Up -> Prayer -> Good Vibrations. I was quite happy when BWPS ended with GV, plus a Prayer snippet before it!
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« Reply #189 on: August 12, 2012, 11:37:05 PM »

But the Prayer thing isn't an offhand comment. It is Brian seriously telling the group what the plan for the album is, at least that day. That Prayer is the intro to the album, and that it isn't meant to be a "track" e.g. listed on the album as a separate item. All tracklists for Smile changed thusly after that tape came to light.

Yes, at least that day. Personally I think Prayer would have been a turn-off for me if I would take a record called "SMiLE" out of that funny, happy cover, put it on the player not knowing what I would hear.

The track "Prayer" would have been perfect to open an album called "Dumb Angel" though - Brian says "intro to the album", not "intro to SMiLE"...

On the other hand, it opens BWPS, so what do I know? Wink 2
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« Reply #190 on: August 12, 2012, 11:42:09 PM »

But it is interesting that Brian had it all planned out before he went into the studio,

If you define "all" as "the segment(s) or song Brian wanted to record that day", I agree with you. If youb define "all" as "the whole album" I strongly disagree.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #191 on: August 13, 2012, 06:02:08 AM »

As I remember Brian was saying at the time to journos that he spent a lot time planning before recording and planned and thought in terms of whole albums. Albums of songs that go together like pictures at an exhibition. Something like that. So little deviation from the 12 track list suggests to me that is what he did and we don't have it right about his state of mind regarding the songs or the album.

Also we are always saying he couldn't pull the songs together with so many fragments but we are really talking about GV, H&V, and/or Vt. He did pull together those songs and we refute our own hypothesis. Don't we?
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« Reply #192 on: August 14, 2012, 06:09:08 AM »

As I remember Brian was saying at the time to journos that he spent a lot time planning before recording and planned and thought in terms of whole albums. Albums of songs that go together like pictures at an exhibition. Something like that. So little deviation from the 12 track list suggests to me that is what he did and we don't have it right about his state of mind regarding the songs or the album.

Also we are always saying he couldn't pull the songs together with so many fragments but we are really talking about GV, H&V, and/or Vt. He did pull together those songs and we refute our own hypothesis. Don't we?

I don't, for one. He attempted to record Wonderful about 4 times in spite of the first version being absolutely great. 2 full weeks of recording Vega-Tables in April led to no finished product, and the version released last year does sound pretty inferior to backing tracks from Pet Sounds that he recorded in one afternoon. Not to mention the songs that he didn't even try to record the vocals. If he was so insecure about what the individual songs should sound like, in a few cases even how they were to be structured, I just can't believe that he was absolutely sure about what songs should be on the album.

I don't believe there is "THE" SMiLE album hidden somewhere in the maelstrom of unfinished and abandoned recordings. In fact I think it is rather likely that DYLW was scrapped altogether when he chose to put the BR theme as the chorus into H&V.
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« Reply #193 on: August 14, 2012, 09:28:56 AM »


I don't, for one. He attempted to record Wonderful about 4 times in spite of the first version being absolutely great. 2 full weeks of recording Vega-Tables in April led to no finished product, and the version released last year does sound pretty inferior to backing tracks from Pet Sounds that he recorded in one afternoon. Not to mention the songs that he didn't even try to record the vocals. If he was so insecure about what the individual songs should sound like, in a few cases even how they were to be structured, I just can't believe that he was absolutely sure about what songs should be on the album.

I don't believe there is "THE" SMiLE album hidden somewhere in the maelstrom of unfinished and abandoned recordings. In fact I think it is rather likely that DYLW was scrapped altogether when he chose to put the BR theme as the chorus into H&V.

There is the finished version of Vegetables right after H&V on Smiley Smile. He changed Windchimes a few times too but they are on the list and even finished for Smiley, the most evolved songs were finished and not left undone. Also there are not really any new songs outside the list introduced to the album before it is canceled.
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