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Author Topic: The Beatles  (Read 17266 times)
Keri
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« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2011, 03:46:43 PM »

The Beatles are great. Very different from The Beach Boys/Brian Wilson, whereas Brian said "I just wasn't made for these times" the Beatles clearly were, the cultural currents of the time flowed effortlessly through the Beatles work, Timothy Leary's reading of the Tibetan book of the Dead went into Tomorrow Never knows, Brian Gyson's cut up technique most notably on revolution number nine, Indian mysticism in sitar playing and Within You without you. Sgt Pepper was the perfect expression of Psychedelia as well as the wealth of popular music influences that poured through them and became truly Beatled.

For me the pinnacle is Sgt Pepper there has been a lot of kick back on this album, but it is so positive and creative. Paul's story songs give a warm human appreciation of everyday life. Lucy in the Sky (particularly the mono version with its psychedelic phasing) is a great psychedelic trip. Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite is such a wonderful colourful extravaganza. Within You without you gives a weight to the album, a philosophic centre and it all builds up to the final epic A Day in the Life. Amazing!

For me, the Beach Boys are primarily Brian Wilson and Brian is primarily music. The early Beach Boys records are great but lyrically they are just good. They made a California dream but it is also a bit hokey "East coast girls are hip, I really dig those styles they wear" that's one of the reasons why Pet Sounds and SMiLE are such great albums, the lyrics have moved up a notch, the other being that the music had too.

The Beatles worked together and progressed together at least until Sgt Pepper, there was no one saying "don't f**k with the formula" they were a band in a way that the Beach Boys never were.
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« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2011, 03:56:57 PM »

The Beatles are great. Very different from The Beach Boys/Brian Wilson, whereas Brian said "I just wasn't made for these times" the Beatles clearly were, the cultural currents of the time flowed effortlessly through the Beatles work, Timothy Leary's reading of the Tibetan book of the Dead went into Tomorrow Never knows, Brian Gyson's cut up technique most notably on revolution number nine, Indian mysticism in sitar playing and Within You without you. Sgt Pepper was the perfect expression of Psychedelia as well as the wealth of popular music influences that poured through them and became truly Beatled.

For me the pinnacle is Sgt Pepper there has been a lot of kick back on this album, but it is so positive and creative. Paul's story songs give a warm human appreciation of everyday life. Lucy in the Sky (particularly the mono version with its psychedelic phasing) is a great psychedelic trip. Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite is such a wonderful colourful extravaganza. Within You without you gives a weight to the album, a philosophic centre and it all builds up to the final epic A Day in the Life. Amazing!

For me, the Beach Boys are primarily Brian Wilson and Brian is primarily music. The early Beach Boys records are great but lyrically they are just good. They made a California dream but it is also a bit hokey "East coast girls are hip, I really dig those styles they wear" that's one of the reasons why Pet Sounds and SMiLE are such great albums, the lyrics have moved up a notch, the other being that the music had too.

The Beatles worked together and progressed together at least until Sgt Pepper, there was no one saying "don't f**k with the formula" they were a band in a way that the Beach Boys never were.

Well put!  I don't understand why some people have to try and pick "one over the other" when both were (and are) great.   Unfortunately for Beach Boys fans, the Beatles had impeccable "timing" throughout their whole career, while the Beach Boys had many, many "timing" fiascos, especially after 1966.   





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Keri
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« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2011, 04:03:22 PM »

Well put!  I don't understand why some people have to try and pick "one over the other" when both were (and are) great.   Unfortunately for Beach Boys fans, the Beatles had impeccable "timing" throughout their whole career, while the Beach Boys had many, many "timing" fiascos, especially after 1966.   

Yeah, isn't it great to have both? The fact that Brian was blown away by the Beatles and the Beatles were blown away by Brian shows that they both had a rich appreciation of good music.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2011, 04:04:06 PM »

Well put!  I don't understand why some people have to try and pick "one over the other" when both were (and are) great.   Unfortunately for Beach Boys fans, the Beatles had impeccable "timing" throughout their whole career, while the Beach Boys had many, many "timing" fiascos, especially after 1966.   

Yeah, isn't it great to have both? The fact that Brian was blown away by the Beatles and the Beatles were blown away by Brian shows that they both had a rich appreciation of good music.

Absolutely.
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Keri
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« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2011, 04:07:28 PM »

I guess over the last month or two I've been listening to them a lot, and just want to hear thoughts and comments from other people.


I highly recommend reading Ian MacDonald's Revolution in the Head, it is the most intelligent in depth study of the Beatles work I've read.
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earcandy
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« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2011, 04:09:53 PM »

I guess over the last month or two I've been listening to them a lot, and just want to hear thoughts and comments from other people.


I highly recommend reading Ian MacDonald's Revolution in the Head, it is the most intelligent in depth study of the Beatles work I've read.

I'm still waiting for a really intelligent study of Brian Wilson's music!  Especially compared to all the Beatle books out there!
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« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2011, 08:06:58 PM »

Check out Phillip Lambert`s Inside the Music of Brian Wilson.
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« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2011, 10:10:27 PM »

Personally what I enjoy about the Beatles and the Beach Boys is that it doesn't HAVE to be intelligent.  You can play either band for a 2 year old and they'll bop around the room, you can play either band for a 90 year old and they'll hum along.  That's universal, when you start talking about the intelligence behind the music I think most of it was unintended and although interesting, I think it misses the mark of what made both bands so extraordinary.  Extra.  Ordinary. 
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2011, 10:12:30 PM »

Check out Phillip Lambert`s Inside the Music of Brian Wilson.

I'll second that - it can get a bit technical at times, but you won't find a better intelligent musical analysis of Brian's music anywhere.  A very enjoyable read if you're a music geek.
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2011, 10:18:57 PM »

I got into The Beatles rather late in life, after I was already obsessed with The Beach Boys.  I've grown to love a lot of their songs/albums.  The songwriting and production were always top-notch, but as others have said, they've just never had the same emotional impact for me as Brian's music has.  Even their more sincere and heartfelt tunes tend to feel somewhat...sterile (for lack of a better word).  Like they're the product of studied craftsmanship, as opposed to divine inspiration.  There's nothing inherently wrong with that, mind you, but I just don't feel connected to Beatles tunes in the same way that I do Beach Boys tunes. 

I think that's the reason I find myself coming back to The Beach Boys much more frequently than I do The Beatles - there's a sincerity in Beach Boys music that I just don't get from The Beatles.
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JohnMill
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« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2011, 11:51:43 PM »

I think that's the reason I find myself coming back to The Beach Boys much more frequently than I do The Beatles - there's a sincerity in Beach Boys music that I just don't get from The Beatles.

I remember you mentioning this several weeks back and I found it to be one of the more astute things I've ever read on either band and since then I've given it some thought myself.  At first with the Beatles being my favorite band I was somewhat dismayed that another person could feel that The Beatles lacked sincerity in their music because I myself never found that to be the case.  I think George Harrison said it best when he mentioned (and I'm paraphrasing here) expressed their thoughts, ideas and desires more than anything else.  I always thought there was a great deal of sincerity in the music of The Beatles however when trying to describe the music of Brian Wilson the word sincerity is really taken to a whole other level that I'm not sure any other artist has ever reached.

I think it's why so many people feel a kinship with Brian Wilson.  I remember Tony Asher writing about Brian and saying: "The real wonder of Brian Wilson is not to be found within the headline grabbing antics, the lawsuits or the dysfunction of either his private or public families but simply in his music".  I don't think anyone could've have put it any better.  Brian wrote about so many different experiences but experiences that are common to so many people.  He wrote about innocence, the loss of innocence, first love, heartbreak and finding love again.  His music also spoke greatly about pain.  He was fearless to write about doubts and questions and fears that most of us have experienced but never would have the ability nor the forum to share publicly.  The songs Brian wrote "Please Let Me Wonder", "She Knows Me Too Well", "Let Him Run Wild", "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", "Til' I Die", "Still I Dream Of It" and "Where Has Love Been?" gave both voice and comfort to more than a few people who have lived the moments detailed in those songs.  I believe that in enough of itself is the legacy of Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys. 
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« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2011, 05:50:19 AM »

I (highly recommend reading Ian MacDonald's Revolution in the Head, it is the most intelligent in depth study of the Beatles work I've read.
Check out Phillip Lambert`s Inside the Music of Brian Wilson.

Agreed, brilliant books both (he said, looking over his shoulder at them on their respective shelves).

MacDonald also wrote a stunning if controversial book about the music of Shostakovich. The section on the Fourth Symphony is worth the price of admission alone.
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« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2011, 07:39:57 AM »

Check out Phillip Lambert`s Inside the Music of Brian Wilson.

I'll second that - it can get a bit technical at times, but you won't find a better intelligent musical analysis of Brian's music anywhere.  A very enjoyable read if you're a music geek.

Third. Also, definitely check out 'Brian Wilson: Songwriter' DVD - Lambert explains in exquisite detail many of Brian's songs and just how complex they really are.
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Amy B.
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« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2011, 07:20:41 PM »


I remember you mentioning this several weeks back and I found it to be one of the more astute things I've ever read on either band and since then I've given it some thought myself.  At first with the Beatles being my favorite band I was somewhat dismayed that another person could feel that The Beatles lacked sincerity in their music because I myself never found that to be the case.  I think George Harrison said it best when he mentioned (and I'm paraphrasing here) expressed their thoughts, ideas and desires more than anything else.  I always thought there was a great deal of sincerity in the music of The Beatles however when trying to describe the music of Brian Wilson the word sincerity is really taken to a whole other level that I'm not sure any other artist has ever reached.


The Beatles were it for me from an early age. Growing up in the 80s, I really didn't like any of the music on the radio, except the oldies station...and my mother's Beatles albums. I loved the craftsmanship in the music...the experimentation with sounds, the joy in their voices in the early albums (always made me smile, even if they WERE on uppers), the wit in many of the Lennon songs, etc. I loved the diversity of songs, from psychedelic to vaudeville and everything in between. I even loved the corny stuff, like Martha My Dear. And I remember watching The Compleat Beatles documentary and getting into the story arc of the band, from teenage friends to grown men who had moved in separate directions-- all the while continuously changing their music, and all within the span of less than a decade. 

One reason why people are still talking about the Beatles today is that the Beatles very cannily played up their legend. As ex-Beatles, they guarded their brand very carefully, so that every talk show appearance by an ex-Beatle is an event, and every new Beatles release is something built-up for months and celebrated in the press. I've seen McCartney purposely prolong a standing ovation on a talk show (standing up and sitting down and standing up to make the audience follow suit), milking the moment to make it seem like he's even more revered than he actually is. Huge ego, but he knows how to work his career. And the Beatles broke up early enough to leave people wanting more.

Also, the Beatles were charismatic and well-liked. The BBs, for example, could never compete with that. Compared with the Beatles, they (and many other bands) had zero charisma.

I liked the Beach Boys when I was a kid, but I didn't really become a fan until I was in my 20s and Pet Sounds made me cry (listening for the 20th time). The Beatles never made me cry, and I can see what you're saying about a lack of sincerity. Most bands seem insincere when compared with BW's music, because BW was coming from that place of childlike innocence and vulnerability. I can't imagine Lennon and/or McCartney writing something like "She Knows Me Too Well," just as I can't imagine BW writing "Norwegian Wood." But I love both. For me I feel like one reason the two bands admired each other so much is because each knew they could never do what the other did. The Beatles could never have been the BBs, and vice versa. And thank God we had both.

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« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2011, 08:28:27 AM »

I'm with Amy on this. I adore both Beatles and Beach Boys.

I was a latecomer to the BBs, after being a Beatlemaniac since 1964. But SMiLE changed my life, got me into the BBs (yes, that was my gateway drug), and though I still would probably count the Beatles as my absolute favorite band, I would have to say SMiLE has been my favorite album (unfinished, BWPS-version, live, and I'm sure the 2011 version as well) since sometime in the 80s.

Other favorites includes Jon Brion/The Grays, Crowded House/Finns, Elliott Smith, The Who, Elton John, Badfinger, Elvis Costello, Squeeze, XTC, Nick Drake, The Zombies, Neil Young...what a wealth of great music there is out there to love.
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« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2011, 04:23:16 PM »

Please Please Me: 7/10
With The Beatles: 5
Hard Days Night: 6
Beatles For Sale: 4
Help: 9
Rubber Soul: 5
Revolver: 8
Sgt. Peppers: 9
Magical Mystery Tour: 8
S/T: 6
Yellow Submarine: 5
Abbey Road: 6
Let It Be: 4
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« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2011, 09:21:02 PM »

The Beach Boys are my second favourite band.

The Beatles are the first. They've been in that position since I was about four years old and I'm sure they'll always be there.

To be honest, I find it somewhat unsettling that the campaign to make the Beach Boys hip again which started in the late 90s and continued throughout the next decade has led to a re-evaluation of the Beatles music. Well, I guess these things can be cyclical - the same opinions were held during the punk era. The Beatles will have their day again.

I'm pretty sure the Beatles never stopped having their day; their popularity has never really waned in the public eye.  And with good reason.
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« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2011, 06:57:51 PM »

For any true, honest fan of pop or rock music in any form, The Beatles are essential, as well as The Beach Boys and many other bands. Not essential that you love them, but essential that you at least understand and appreciate their influence and place in history. That being said, I love The Beatles. Each one of their albums, except Yellow Submarine, consistently blows me away.
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« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2011, 09:56:27 PM »

The Beatles are a huge part of my life.  I was 6 years old when a film clip of them was aired on the Jack Parr show and a few weeks later, they made their big U.S. debut on the Ed Sullivan Show.  Those events were a milestone for a musically inclined kid like myself.  I followed them closely throughout my childhood, and their music has continued to be very special to me throughout my life. 

For me, everything from Rubber Soul on is just an incredible body of work.  I'm hopelessly biased, because their music is extremely sentimental for me, having been such a huge part of my childhood.  I'm not sure I can be a lot of help to anyone wanting to understand why they're so highly regarded.  I think you either get what they were doing or you don't. 

I will say this much.  Very few bands were so capable of reinvention as the Beatles.  What kept me interested in them then, and what continues to excite me about their music today, from a sheer musical perspective, is their eclecticism and how they evolved from album to album, especially from 1965 though 1968.
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« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2011, 11:47:43 PM »

I wanted to start a thread about the most famous band of all time. If your a Beatles fan please share your thoughts, list your favorite songs, whatever. Earlier today I conducted an experiment, I listened to all The Beatles albums in order. I can't say that I understand them, they've just never really wowed me. I've yet to hear a song by them that I just *have* to hear again, perhaps the closest I've come to that is I'm Only Sleeping. Sure they have good songs, even some great ones, but none of them feel really special to me. I guess over the last month or two I've been listening to them a lot, and just want to hear thoughts and comments from other people.

My ratings:
Please Please Me: 7/10
With The Beatles: 7
Hard Days Night: 7.5
Beatles For Sale: 8
Help: 8.5
Rubber Soul: 9
Revolver: 8.9
Sgt. Peppers: 8
Magical Mystery Tour: 9
S/T: 7
Yellow Submarine: 4 (why does this even count as an official Beatles LP?)
Abbey Road: 8.5
Let It Be: 6
check out "oh darling"..."it's all too much".."free as a bird" maybe then you'll hear the best of the beatles.
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« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2011, 08:16:39 AM »

I don't get the flack that Real Love and Free As A Bird get. Sure, the original demos are beautiful in their simplicity. But damn if RL and FaaB don't put a lump in my throat every time I hear them.
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« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2011, 12:38:31 PM »

I don't get the flack that Real Love and Free As A Bird get. Sure, the original demos are beautiful in their simplicity. But damn if RL and FaaB don't put a lump in my throat every time I hear them.
free as a bird is an amazing piece of work :]
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Newguy562
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« Reply #72 on: December 25, 2011, 03:39:52 AM »

Please Please Me: 9 (First album i heard by them thanks to my parents..so it holds some sentimental value to me.)

With The Beatles: 7

Hard Days Night: 7

Beatles For Sale: 6

Help: 7 (At first i hated this album the most ..but once i kept listening to it it became one that i definately grew to love.)

Rubber Soul: 9 (only reason it's not a ten is because of "what goes on" and "run for your life"..otherwise it would've been perfect smh)

Revolver: 8 (most say this album is better than rubber soul but i'm not one of them.)

Sgt. Pepper: 6 (extremely over-rated...with songs like "when i'm 64" .."lovely rita".."mr.kite".."Within You Without You"? really? the best album of all time? This isn't even the best beatles album. )

Magical Mystery Tour: 10 (My favorite beatles album...a true psychadelic album Smiley

White Album: 9 (even though there is alot of filler songs they are more incredible songs that are very important in the beatles catalog)

Abbey Road: 7 (the last great beatles album?...there are a few gems in this one but if they wanted to end with a bang they could've done much better. even for the beatles)

Let It Be: 5 (when i first heard this i was so disappointed i expected to hear a masterpiece  but i heard "dig  a pony", "i me mine", & "for you blue" yikesssss! lol...but there was also gems like "don't let me down"..."across the universe" & "The Long and Winding Road")
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« Reply #73 on: December 25, 2011, 03:44:35 AM »

Who?
My Generation 7.5
A Quick One 5.5
Sell Out 8.0
Tommy 8.5
Live at Leeds 9.5
Who's Next 10.0
Quadrophenia 9.5
By Numbers 7.0
Who are You 6.5

My Generation : 10 (i love every single song on this album)
A Quick One :  5 (disappoiting sophomore)
Sell Out :10 (their beautiful psychedelic album)
Tommy :5 (i like the story but didnt care too much about the songs besides pin ball wizard)
Live at Leeds : 6 (i hate live albums)
Who's Next : 9
Quadrophenia : 6
By Numbers : 6
Who are You : 8
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« Reply #74 on: December 25, 2011, 01:41:48 PM »

To me, bands and songs come down in a few categories:

- Those songs you hear, don't really care much for, and never really do.

- Those songs you hear, really like at first, and then they get really old really quick.  LOTS of pop music falls in this category, it just doesn't have staying power. 

- Those songs you hear, really like at first, and they stay good forever.  Most of the Beatles music falls in this category.  I've heard so many Beatles songs where I can remember the first time I heard the song, and I liked it from the start, and still enjoy it.  I would call this the "Mozart" type of Rock; pretty brilliant stuff that's timeless, almost effortless too.

- The final category is the stuff you hear, kind of dig at first, and over time it actually gets better.  A lot of the Beach Boys music falls in this category.  Like Amy said above, the 20th time she heard Pet Sounds she cried.  I similarly grew to love that album.  At first I only liked a few songs, over time I noticed how beautiful other songs were, and eventually realized what an incredibly well done and great album it is. 

I've noticed, for me at least, too, that a lot of good Country music is like that, I mean the old stuff from the 60's, 70's, 80's.  The first time you hear it, you think "oh, that's pretty cool, kind of hokey" and the more you hear it, the more you love it. 

I would say the Beatles are the greatest band of all time, but I'd also say the Beach Boys are my favorite band of all time.  Although these 'categories' are how the music falls to me, I think others may have different experiences, but these are mine. 
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