What will happen to BWPS's reputation after 1st November

[mammy blue]

Also I think I prefer tracks like Do You Dig Worms without the vocals. BBSS has such a great vibe to it, almost eerie in parts.

Especially since the lead vocal melody in Roll Plymouth Rock is decidedly inferior to the amazing Worms melody 1966 Brian shares with us in CD 3 Track 1.

[Austin]

Apparently (can't remember where I heard this) the fakesichord, which is a real bone of contention with most SMiLE fans, was only supposed to be temporary. They were going to put real harpsichord on there, but Brian said "No, it's fine"

Not according to this Sound on Sound article:

"An early plan to replace the sampled Kurzweil harpsichord with the real thing later was abandoned, as everyone professed themselves happy with the sounds from the K2600 on hearing rough mixes."

Personally, I've never had a problem with the sound. I still prefer the sound of the original, but I feel like many BWPS bashers dislike it on principle that it's a software instrument.

Also, given the rest of the work to make the album sound authentic, if Mark and Darian OK it, it probably can't be that bad.

[The Heartical Don]

Smile live in London in February 2004 was the highlight of my musical life. The DVD or CD captures some of it, but it's just not the same. The Smile Sessions is the base material for Smile 2004.  It all hangs together....but there is nothing in my musical experience like that series of shows in London...

Seeing SMiLE live was the nearest thing to a religious experience I have ever had in my life.

I'm not saying it made me believe in a spirit being, but it had the effect on my described by people who have major religious experiences.

A moment not to be missed, and one that perhaps cannot be explained to those who were not there. Being in the same room as Brian Wilson and his band performed SMiLE was amazing.

I can relate very well. I had expressly avoided all info and all rave descriptions beforehand, having a ticket for Feb 24, 2004. For me, Ms. O'Leary's Cow was the zenith, the apex, the pivotal point, the mountain, the peak, and the ultimate of ultimates. When the 'Woody Woodpecker Chant' kicked in, I forgot time and place, and felt Eternity.

And I am a religious person. I bet God had a good time in that particular week too.

[Chris Brown]

Apparently (can't remember where I heard this) the fakesichord, which is a real bone of contention with most SMiLE fans, was only supposed to be temporary. They were going to put real harpsichord on there, but Brian said "No, it's fine"

Personally, I've never had a problem with the sound. I still prefer the sound of the original, but I feel like many BWPS bashers dislike it on principle that it's a software instrument.

I don't particularly care that it's a software instrument - what bothers me is that for a guy who was obsessive about achieving the perfect sound in the studio, Brian was content to just say "ok that's close enough," something he'd never do in 1966.  And it's even more perplexing in light of the fact that they went to great lengths to get the right sounds on the rest of the album, and did a pretty damn good job of it.  So why not just take it the rest of the way and get a real harpsichord?

[tansen]

Also, you can get a LOT better samples than the Kurzweil - you don't have to look very far to find some very decent ones you can load up in Kontakt.

[Wirestone]

I don't particularly care that it's a software instrument - what bothers me is that for a guy who was obsessive about achieving the perfect sound in the studio, Brian was content to just say "ok that's close enough," something he'd never do in 1966.  And it's even more perplexing in light of the fact that they went to great lengths to get the right sounds on the rest of the album, and did a pretty damn good job of it.  So why not just take it the rest of the way and get a real harpsichord?

Because the producer, one Mr. Brian Wilson, said he was satisfied with it. The 1966 Brian ain't coming back. So if the 2004 Brian says something, do you make him fight it out with his former self? And if you do, aren't you one more person trying to manipulate him into doing what you want him to do?

[Wirestone]

Listening back to BWPS I think it sounds very rushed, the sound is nowhere near the original recordings and sounds far too synth based. Live and it sounded great, but the album sounds like they just went in and recorded as they would perform it. Also I think I prefer tracks like Do You Dig Worms without the vocals. BBSS has such a great vibe to it, almost eerie in parts.

Some harpsichord samples make BWPS synth based? The studio had both an upright and grand piano, both of which are on the record.

The album was also expressly not recorded as they performed it. At Brian's request, it was recorded in sections, just like the original sessions.

It was rushed.

They did spend three months spent on lead and backing vocals. That doesn't sound rushed to me.

[tansen]

Listening back to BWPS I think it sounds very rushed, the sound is nowhere near the original recordings and sounds far too synth based. Live and it sounded great, but the album sounds like they just went in and recorded as they would perform it. Also I think I prefer tracks like Do You Dig Worms without the vocals. BBSS has such a great vibe to it, almost eerie in parts.

Some harpsichord samples make BWPS synth based? The studio had both an upright and grand piano, both of which are on the record.

The album was also expressly not recorded as they performed it. At Brian's request, it was recorded in sections, just like the original sessions.

It was rushed.

They did spend three months spent on lead and backing vocals. That doesn't sound rushed to me.

Yet, the overall sound is slick, and quite overproduced to my ears - most to do with mixing/mastering, and perhaps the lack of tape. This was also Brian's choice.

[Wirestone]

I don't know if overproduced is quite the word you want here.

But yes ... the finished sound to BWPS is one its less appealing aspects. I would call it just a bit too careful.

[tansen]

I don't know if overproduced is quite the word you want here.

But yes ... the finished sound to BWPS is one its less appealing aspects. I would call it just a bit too careful.

Yeah, perhaps overproduced is the wrong word. It sounds to me that they could have easily applied more vintage compressors, pre-amps (tubes, etc), etc and use tape to make it sound more vintage.
Anyways, that wouldn't really change Brian's voice, nor the Wondermints' blend (as great as they are).

[Wirestone]

more vintage compressors, pre-amps (tubes, etc), etc and use tape to make it sound more vintage.

I do agree here, as this is something that could have easily been done without Brian caring particularly one way or the other.

It's definitely part of what Andy Paley did in his mid-90s work with Brian, and I happen to think the sonic results are very appealing.

[tansen]

more vintage compressors, pre-amps (tubes, etc), etc and use tape to make it sound more vintage.

I do agree here, as this is something that could have easily been done without Brian caring particularly one way or the other.

It's definitely part of what Andy Paley did in his mid-90s work with Brian, and I happen to think the sonic results are very appealing.

Absolutely. By the way, that made me think of 'This Song Wants to Sleep With You Tonight' - what an amazing song. In my opinion better than anything Brian has done post Imagination.

[?]

I don't know if overproduced is quite the word you want here.

But yes ... the finished sound to BWPS is one its less appealing aspects. I would call it just a bit too careful.

Yeah, perhaps overproduced is the wrong word. It sounds to me that they could have easily applied more vintage compressors, pre-amps (tubes, etc), etc and use tape to make it sound more vintage.
Anyways, that wouldn't really change Brian's voice, nor the Wondermints' blend (as great as they are).

You haven't heard the vinyl have you?  It was cut from an analog tape and sounds incredible.

[Wirestone]

I have heard people praise the BWPS vinyl to the skies ...

I am a little dubious. Regardless of the role tape plays in the transfer, the album was still recorded and processed digitally.

Basically, the sound that people are praising would seem to me to be a certain amount of sonic degradation / "warmness" introduced by transferring the music to tape and then mastering to vinyl. And I'm sure that sounds good, but it's not really "real" to me somehow. I'd prefer something recorded / mixed / mastered warmly to begin with.

[tansen]

I have heard people praise the BWPS vinyl to the skies ...

I am a little dubious. Regardless of the role tape plays in the transfer, the album was still recorded and processed digitally.

Basically, the sound that people are praising would seem to me to be a certain amount of sonic degradation / "warmness" introduced by transferring the music to tape and then mastering to vinyl. And I'm sure that sounds good, but it's not really "real" to me somehow. I'd prefer something recorded / mixed / mastered warmly to begin with.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[joshferrell]

Is BWPS still in print? (on the shelves not amazon) because if it's isn't or it's become very hard to find then I don't know how TSS can help the sells of it if people can't get it or can only get it from amazon..

[?]

I have heard people praise the BWPS vinyl to the skies ...

I am a little dubious. Regardless of the role tape plays in the transfer, the album was still recorded and processed digitally.

Basically, the sound that people are praising would seem to me to be a certain amount of sonic degradation / "warmness" introduced by transferring the music to tape and then mastering to vinyl. And I'm sure that sounds good, but it's not really "real" to me somehow. I'd prefer something recorded / mixed / mastered warmly to begin with.

You haven't heard it then?  I highly suggest you check it out.  You will be very surprised.  Also, keep in mind that it was a different mastering engineer than the cd and the analog tape was made from the high res digital files, not the 16 bit cd version.  The difference is really night and day.

[Sam_BFC]

I don't know if overproduced is quite the word you want here.

But yes ... the finished sound to BWPS is one its less appealing aspects. I would call it just a bit too careful.

Yeah, perhaps overproduced is the wrong word. It sounds to me that they could have easily applied more vintage compressors, pre-amps (tubes, etc), etc and use tape to make it sound more vintage.
Anyways, that wouldn't really change Brian's voice, nor the Wondermints' blend (as great as they are).

You haven't heard the vinyl have you?  It was cut from an analog tape and sounds incredible.

I'd love to hear the vinyl or at least a needle-drop but have never been able to find such things   maybe one day.

I am a little dubious. Regardless of the role tape plays in the transfer, the album was still recorded and processed digitally.

Recorded digitally i.e. to hard disk yes.  But according to the aforementioned SOS article, most of the actual mixing (and thus much of the processing) was done in the analogue domain through Mark's console and effort was made to impart some more analogue/authentic character in certain parts of the signal chain such as the Universal Audio preamps that are 'based' on those of the original 60s console(s) that Brian used.  Obviously this does not magically overcome the inherent traits of digital, but as digital is considered to be somewhat transparent, is the said transfer to tape just a further step towards completing a more authentic overall signal chain?  If ya get what I mean...

[tansen]

I don't know if overproduced is quite the word you want here.

But yes ... the finished sound to BWPS is one its less appealing aspects. I would call it just a bit too careful.

Yeah, perhaps overproduced is the wrong word. It sounds to me that they could have easily applied more vintage compressors, pre-amps (tubes, etc), etc and use tape to make it sound more vintage.
Anyways, that wouldn't really change Brian's voice, nor the Wondermints' blend (as great as they are).

You haven't heard the vinyl have you?  It was cut from an analog tape and sounds incredible.

I'd love to hear the vinyl or at least a needle-drop but have never been able to find such things   maybe one day.

I am a little dubious. Regardless of the role tape plays in the transfer, the album was still recorded and processed digitally.

Recorded digitally i.e. to hard disk yes.  But according to the aforementioned SOS article, most of the actual mixing (and thus much of the processing) was done in the analogue domain through Mark's console and effort was made to impart some more analogue/authentic character in certain parts of the signal chain such as the Universal Audio preamps that are 'based' on those of the original 60s console(s) that Brian used.  Obviously this does not magically overcome the inherent traits of digital, but as digital is considered to be somewhat transparent, is the said transfer to tape just a further step towards completing a more authentic overall signal chain?  If ya get what I mean...

Wow, that is surprising - You'd think this would be more apparent on the final product then (the CD included).

[Wirestone]

Good catch. I had remembered otherwise, but I didn't go back and check the booklet.

[runnersdialzero]

Caring about using software for one instrument on BWPS and dismissing the project due to it is pretty laughable imo.

[tansen]

Caring about using software for one instrument on BWPS and dismissing the project due to it is pretty laughable imo.

Well if you read the posts above carefully you'd see that that was only _one_ of the reasons for preferring TSS over BWPS.

[positivemusic]

While I LOVE Brian Wilson Presents Smile, I have to say that the lack of a real harpsichord on "Wonderful" and the organ as used on the original "Good Vibrations" is perplexing. Especially in the face of how close the instrumental tracks to songs like "Roll Plymouth Rock" and "On A Holiday" (just for 2 examples!) are to their '67 counterparts.

[runnersdialzero]

Caring about using software for one instrument on BWPS and dismissing the project due to it is pretty laughable imo.

Well if you read the posts above carefully you'd see that that was only _one_ of the reasons for preferring TSS over BWPS.

Nothing to do with preferring one over the other, I just think it's a silly reason to hate on BWPS. I doubt anyone would know any better if not for it being stated.

[debonbon]

Caring about using software for one instrument on BWPS and dismissing the project due to it is pretty laughable imo.

Well if you read the posts above carefully you'd see that that was only _one_ of the reasons for preferring TSS over BWPS.

Nothing to do with preferring one over the other, I just think it's a silly reason to hate on BWPS. I doubt anyone would know any better if not for it being stated.

I don't think anyone is saying they hate it. I said I don't dig like some of the sonic choices, being a modern recording it is VERY clean and I think for the material it suffers from that. The harpsichord does sound cheap to me ( I LOVE the sound of a real harpsichord) but it doesn't distract me from enjoying the album as a whole.