SPOILER!!- Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations from TSS

[SloopJohnB]

To those who miss the Baldwin in the choruses: I'm one of you. Three reasons why Mark & Alan probably ditched it:

1) BWPS has the ascending bass, not a buzzing organ
2) The Baldwin was from the Smiley Smile sessions
3) They couldn't find/extract the Baldwin overdub.

I guess I'll just have to make my own version... 

You can still hear the Baldwin in the "boys and girls" section though.


Also, I love the extra "pause" between "by the Heroes and..." and the last chorus. It was my only "complaint" about the single version (my all-time favorite song), and this new version makes the transition perfect.

[SloopJohnB]

I'm creating Apple Lossless versions.... Oh gosh I can't wait for headphones...

How do you make a lossless file out of an mp3?

Encoding, it's magic

You're aware that it won't make ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER in sound quality, right? 

Actually, you lessen the quality re-encoding from lossy mp3 to another format, whether lossy or lossless. So, best quality will be if you leave it at 320 mp3.

I know, you're right. I should have said "improvement" instead of "difference". 

Here's hoping the "studio musician" who seems to "know" a lot of things about lossless file types will read your post and learn... 

[vintagemusic]

After listening to these two cuts, and the Cabin essence 45, I think perhaps some of the famous
versions ie singles, Smiley versions or 20/20 are just as good,

However, there is a homogenous feel to this whole thing, it belongs together, and they sound
so good with each other,

this is a masterpiece, that exceeds Sgt Pepper to offer a simple opinion. and I love my Beatles.

This album is arguably the greatest pop album ever made, it breaks my heart they couldnt finish it.
But I am very happy it is finally getting its day.

the arrangement and structure put together on this version of Hero's and Villians is the best. just aces.
the fidelity is good too. I do prefer stereo but what can you do. Mono is so pure, it's not a loss, it's just
what is.

Good Job Beach Boys, Brian and Capitol. Your;e all gonna score big in money and accolades for this
np question. They will be using this box set to teach in music class all across America and Europe.

[Too Much Sugar]

Wow.  These are incredible.  I've been obsessed with "SMiLE" since early 2004 and after millions of listens and dozens of bootlegs, it feels like a fresh new listening experience.  I was already excited about this enough, but these samples have taken it to another level.  And being able to listen to the "Cabin Essence/Wonderful" tracks from Mojo would really Please Me, as well. 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

And I'd have dubbed the clarinet back onto Look. Its VINTAGE OK.

So where is that missing ?
[/quote]

It's on BWPS. Whilst Darian was researching he heard the clarinet line on bleedthrough, though it had been erased. It's vintage SMiLE.

I seriously doubt they would dub new instruments on, but it wouldn't bother me if it was a proven vintage idea and was done correctly.

[phirnis]

I really think Heroes should always have False Barnyard. I *love* False Barnyard. Personally my favorite version will always be the "alternate version", I was listening to it earlier today and was really thinking about how radical it sounds, it's some crazy stuff.

Not to say that the version just released isn't great, because it is, it's really great.

Oh yes, "False Barnyard" is quite possibly my favourite Smile section of all!

Just heard the new versions at youtube. Personally I think the "hum de dum" part always should have been part of the original "GV" single version (though I know I'm in a minority here). The extended outro is gorgeous! Now the new "H&V" sounds amazingly good too but I think I still prefer the Smiley Smile version because of its perfect flow.

[desmondo]

And I'd have dubbed the clarinet back onto Look. Its VINTAGE OK.

So where is that missing ?

It's on BWPS. Whilst Darian was researching he heard the clarinet line on bleedthrough, though it had been erased. It's vintage SMiLE.

I seriously doubt they would dub new instruments on, but it wouldn't bother me if it was a proven vintage idea and was done correctly.
[/quote]

Thanks - thought you had another TSS track - lololol

[The Shift]

On my third listen now. Think maybe it's time to buy new headphones though…

Don't want to comment until others have had chance to listen so will hold off until the morrow.

G'night all!

John, I'm with you. I'm listening to them with my Grado SR-60's which are pretty alright for consumer headphones. Can't say I'm overly impressed with the sound quality. Of course, they are mp3s, but 320kbps none the less.

Thanks Tansen, thought I was in a minority of 1 for a mo'. The sound is pretty rough even for a 320kb MP3 (which is what I thought they were - they're fairly big files). Maybe they've been mastered for the iPod earbud generation?

[Freddie French-Pounce]

Also: Sure, anyone else for MOJO?

I have it on my iPod, but my turntable isn't fantastic. So, yes please

[lance]

Alright, there's a mediafire link on page 2, please use that.
Also: I can't give out any more MOJO 45 mp3s because I don't
Feel right about that... So if anyone wants it please ask someone who already has it.

Thanks
I just can't copy and paste those 3 links a million times! Haha

found the mediafire after I'd posted...sorry...

[Cliff1000uk]

May I ask for a PM for the Mojo tracks-thanks to FatherOfTheMan for doing them originally, by the way

Cheers

[tansen]

On my third listen now. Think maybe it's time to buy new headphones though…

Don't want to comment until others have had chance to listen so will hold off until the morrow.

G'night all!

John, I'm with you. I'm listening to them with my Grado SR-60's which are pretty alright for consumer headphones. Can't say I'm overly impressed with the sound quality. Of course, they are mp3s, but 320kbps none the less.

Thanks Tansen, thought I was in a minority of 1 for a mo'. The sound is pretty rough even for a 320kb MP3 (which is what I thought they were - they're fairly big files). Maybe they've been mastered for the iPod earbud generation?

Yeah, might be. H&V actually sounds 'better' on my AKG Q350's earbuds then on the better quality Grado SR-60's. Oh well, let's wait for the CD's/LPs and we'll hopefully be blown away!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

To those who miss the Baldwin in the choruses: I'm one of you. Three reasons why Mark & Alan probably ditched it:

1) BWPS has the ascending bass, not a buzzing organ
2) The Baldwin was from the Smiley Smile sessions
3) They couldn't find/extract the Baldwin overdub.

I guess I'll just have to make my own version... 

You can still hear the Baldwin in the "boys and girls" section though.


Also, I love the extra "pause" between "by the Heroes and..." and the last chorus. It was my only "complaint" about the single version (my all-time favorite song), and this new version makes the transition perfect.

I think your third point is the main reason. If they were excluding on the grounds of it being post SMiLE, then the majority of the song would be gone.

I think Brian dubbed the organ on during mixdown, so it couldn't be extracted. It's missing on the Hawthorne stereo mix of the Smiley Smile version, so there you go.

And the ascending bass is on the Smiley version, it's just obscured by the organ.

[WWDWD?]

this is a masterpiece, that exceeds Sgt Pepper to offer a simple opinion. and I love my Beatles.

This album is arguably the greatest pop album ever made, it breaks my heart they couldnt finish it.
But I am very happy it is finally getting its day.

I agree and I'd like to add something. Now, I love SMiLE a lot more than I do Sgt. Peppers but I just feel that it is not as commercial as Sgt. Peppers. I'm not saying that like its a bad thing. Sgt Peppers, to me, is a lot more straight forward. But SMiLE? SMiLE is just pure ART! I feel the same way about Pet Sounds. This is true pop art. The Beatles were amazing of course... but nothing touches Pet Sounds and SMiLE. Nothing!!!

[Loaf]

The new H&V version brings out a lot more of the 'spookiness' i love so much. One thing that really struck me when i first heard the Smile boots of H&V (and GV) sessions was just how spooky it sounded, especially the harpsichord stuff.

I think dropping the organ from the My Children Were Raised section allows more room for the vocals to sparkle, and the ascending bassline part too. The vocals in general have more room to breathe. The Smiley version is quite cluttered with too much midrange.

Still not sure what I think about the woo-woos interrupting the "Dance...You're Under Arrest!".

[The Shift]

On my third listen now. Think maybe it's time to buy new headphones though…

Don't want to comment until others have had chance to listen so will hold off until the morrow.

G'night all!

John, I'm with you. I'm listening to them with my Grado SR-60's which are pretty alright for consumer headphones. Can't say I'm overly impressed with the sound quality. Of course, they are mp3s, but 320kbps none the less.

Thanks Tansen, thought I was in a minority of 1 for a mo'. The sound is pretty rough even for a 320kb MP3 (which is what I thought they were - they're fairly big files). Maybe they've been mastered for the iPod earbud generation?

Have listened on buds and it does sound better. Is this possible?

[Matt Bielewicz]

And the ascending bass is on the Smiley version, it's just obscured by the organ.

I'll swear it isn't, and that it's utterly mixed out for Smiley. A little bit of the clanging percussion is still there (just two of the many original 'clangs', if I remember rightly), but not even much of that, and that rising bass-line... is completely absent. If you analyse everything below 160Hz in that mix, which is where that bass-line ought to be, spectrally speaking... then like the Zombies nearly said... it's not there.

And to Loaf:

The new H&V version brings out a lot more of the 'spookiness' i love so much. One thing that really struck me when i first heard the Smile boots of H&V (and GV) sessions was just how spooky it sounded, especially the harpsichord stuff.

I think dropping the organ from the My Children Were Raised section allows more room for the vocals to sparkle, and the ascending bassline part too. The vocals in general have more room to breathe. The Smiley version is quite cluttered with too much midrange.

Still not sure what I think about the woo-woos interrupting the "Dance...You're Under Arrest!".

Whoa, whoa... some things to point out here, too. First, some opinion. While I agree that the rising bassline chorus is spooky, it's not like the Baldwin in the Smiley chorus *isn't*. Especially in the parts on the 45/Smiley version where the whole track fades out leaving just that Boris Karloff drone. Disconcerted the beejeebies out of me when I first heard it, that did (though I kinda loved it, too).

Second... whaddya mean by 'dropping the organ from the My Children Were Raised section allows more room for the vocals to sparkle'. The organ is still IN that bit, even in the new mix! It's the only thing left droning after all the voices in that section have finished their beautiful harmonies, right before the lead vocal starts the 'I've been in this town' line in the 'Sunny Down Snuff' section.

And third... to borrow your terms for a moment; the 'woo-woos' interrupt the 'dance...you're under arrest' section on the original recorded tapes, if I remember my boot listening sessions correctly . That part was edited to cut more quickly to the 'You're Under Arrest' on Brian's February 'cantina' mix of H&V, but the woo-woos weren't interposed there for this mix. They were on the original tapes in that position all along. You could argue with some justification that as Brian edited them out and cut more quickly to 'You're Under Arrest' in February 1967, this mix should have been edited similarly to reflect that decision... but I'm guessing that as we'll be getting the Feb 67 mix somewhere else in the set anyway, Messrs Linett and Boyd chose to leave the 'woo-woos' in on this version. After all, for close-harmony approximations of a steam-train whistle, they sound pretty damn fine - a sterling piece of the brothers singing at their finest, I would say. Why not give these vocals their moment in the sun SOMEWHERE on the set, at least?

MattB

[Roger Ryan]

I wanted something different from these mixes and I got it!

I'm thinking this sets a precedent that Disc 1 is not about trying to honor to the letter what was might have happened in '66/'67, but to create something new and fun based on what Brian decided was new and fun back in 2003. Clearly, BWPS is the template, but as we can tell from the timings, there are going to be some twists that may be closer to the spirit of the original test edits/sessions.

Mark has tried to de-SMILEY SMILE as much of "Heroes & Villains" as possible (note how the a cappella section after "Peace in the valley" seems to be missing the vocal overdub done for the 45 single) while sticking to what was presented on BWPS. Sure, there are a few rougher moments in there, but this is being cobbled together from incomplete tapes. This, to me, is what a SMiLE version should have sounded like (even though I prefer "Heroes..." without the "Bicycle Rider" theme chorus); I'm really looking forward to hearing this in stereo!

Similarly, the new additions to "Good Vibrations" are there not because Brian wanted that in '66 but was forced to edit those additions out, but because that's how Brian/Darian et al decided to do it in 2003. I like it because it gives this SMiLE-version of the song a twist not heard for the last 45 years. If you're going to end the "album" with it, why not give it an extended ending (the quick fadeout of the single version would have felt very abrupt). I imagine Steve Hoffman feels somewhat vindicated since he extended the ending himself a number of years back without asking permission!

[ghost]

Mike Love IS the Balwdin Organ on "girls, boys" part. his voice merges with it.

[Freddie French-Pounce]

I still say, after listening through speakers and my (not fantastic ) iPod headphones, that its just a bit too trebley. or maybe its because of my favouritism for bass (always turn it up a bit on the turntable). Ah vell.

[ghost]

Also will I be the first with the guts to suggest that besides the better sound quality there is nothing much better than many fan mixes here? And certainly not better than the singles - Heroes and Villains on the single is like it or leave it THE one, because Brian felt strongly for it. It was at the height of a big trip for him, it meant a lot. And the harpsichord is in that version too you just might not have your eq set right. it's low in the mix, subliminal. mozart on acid a couple rooms away. The humbedum was left out of Good Vibrations not for time constraints but because it makes the song drag into mediocrity, the Ahhhhh! becomes a non-climax, deadened. Someone didn't get this in the room. They should've hired me as spiritual over seer of project. Mark Linett, you made the Ahhhhhs a premature ejaculation.

[SloopJohnB]

And the ascending bass is on the Smiley version, it's just obscured by the organ.

I'll swear it isn't, and that it's utterly mixed out for Smiley. A little bit of the clanging percussion is still there (just two of the many original 'clangs', if I remember rightly), but not even much of that, and that rising bass-line... is completely absent. If you analyse everything below 160Hz in that mix, which is where that bass-line ought to be, spectrally speaking... then like the Zombies nearly said... it's not there.

And to Loaf:

The new H&V version brings out a lot more of the 'spookiness' i love so much. One thing that really struck me when i first heard the Smile boots of H&V (and GV) sessions was just how spooky it sounded, especially the harpsichord stuff.

I think dropping the organ from the My Children Were Raised section allows more room for the vocals to sparkle, and the ascending bassline part too. The vocals in general have more room to breathe. The Smiley version is quite cluttered with too much midrange.

Still not sure what I think about the woo-woos interrupting the "Dance...You're Under Arrest!".

Whoa, whoa... some things to point out here, too. First, some opinion. While I agree that the rising bassline chorus is spooky, it's not like the Baldwin in the Smiley chorus *isn't*. Especially in the parts on the 45/Smiley version where the whole track fades out leaving just that Boris Karloff drone. Disconcerted the beejeebies out of me when I first heard it, that did (though I kinda loved it, too).

Second... whaddya mean by 'dropping the organ from the My Children Were Raised section allows more room for the vocals to sparkle'. The organ is still IN that bit, even in the new mix! It's the only thing left droning after all the voices in that section have finished their beautiful harmonies, right before the lead vocal starts the 'I've been in this town' line in the 'Sunny Down Snuff' section.

And third... to borrow your terms for a moment; the 'woo-woos' interrupt the 'dance...you're under arrest' section on the original recorded tapes, if I remember my boot listening sessions correctly . That part was edited to cut more quickly to the 'You're Under Arrest' on Brian's February 'cantina' mix of H&V, but the woo-woos weren't interposed there for this mix. They were on the original tapes in that position all along. You could argue with some justification that as Brian edited them out and cut more quickly to 'You're Under Arrest' in February 1967, this mix should have been edited similarly to reflect that decision... but I'm guessing that as we'll be getting the Feb 67 mix somewhere else in the set anyway, Messrs Linett and Boyd chose to leave the 'woo-woos' in on this version. After all, for close-harmony approximations of a steam-train whistle, they sound pretty damn fine - a sterling piece of the brothers singing at their finest, I would say. Why not give these vocals their moment in the sun SOMEWHERE on the set, at least?

MattB

Nothing to add, really - I just wholeheartedly agree with this post. The Baldwin sounds even spookier to me than the bassline. "Menacing", almost.

[The Shift]

Also will I be the first with the guts to suggest that besides the better sound quality there is nothing much better than many fan mixes here? And certainly not better than the singles - Heroes and Villains on the single is like it or leave it THE one, because Brian felt strongly for it. It was at the height of a big trip for him, it meant a lot. And the harpsichord is in that version too you just might not have your eq set right. it's low in the mix, subliminal. mozart on acid a couple rooms away. The humbedum was left out of Good Vibrations not for time constraints but because it makes the song drag into mediocrity, the Ahhhhh! becomes a non-climax, deadened. Someone didn't get this in the room. They should've hired me as spiritual over seer of project. Mark Linett, you made the Ahhhhhs a premature ejaculation.

Those "Aaahs" – and the "breath" in Surf's Up '71, which strike on (or a millisecond prior to) the "D" in "Dove nested towers…" – are two of the quintessential moments in rock music. Peerless.

[ghost]

the organ transcends the speakers it is played on. listen to the original heroes single with the bass and mids up appropriately. turn th volume up. the organ is a PRESENCE. it is a sound color that fills the air you're in. you feel like you can grasp it. it gives the sound a motionless motion. the movement of the notes is like phillip glass in the choruses "NA na na na na na, na na na na na na na... etc" sounds like it's from Einstein On The Beach. Brian Wilson influenced Philip Glass.

[ghost]

Also will I be the first with the guts to suggest that besides the better sound quality there is nothing much better than many fan mixes here? And certainly not better than the singles - Heroes and Villains on the single is like it or leave it THE one, because Brian felt strongly for it. It was at the height of a big trip for him, it meant a lot. And the harpsichord is in that version too you just might not have your eq set right. it's low in the mix, subliminal. mozart on acid a couple rooms away. The humbedum was left out of Good Vibrations not for time constraints but because it makes the song drag into mediocrity, the Ahhhhh! becomes a non-climax, deadened. Someone didn't get this in the room. They should've hired me as spiritual over seer of project. Mark Linett, you made the Ahhhhhs a premature ejaculation.

Those "Aaahs" – and the "breath" in Surf's Up '71, which strike on (or a millisecond prior to) the "D" in "Dove nested towers…" – are two of the quintessential moments in rock music. Peerless.

i know, which is why i am saying that strripped of their context made to follow the mediocre humbedum recording are made to sound weak, inferior, a non-climax. in the single, the Ahhhh is a powerful orgasm. it's perfectly placed.