SPOILER!!- Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations from TSS

[Micha]

Thoughts on Good Vibrations.  Love the edited PARTS but it seems like it's almost sacrilege to cut and paste those parts into the final version of the song. Always thought they belonged in the early version (w/Tony Asher lyrics) or in a GV sessions comp. The edits are very well done, and fit, but it seems like something that was part of a SMiLE mix tape compiled by a fan. I dunno - I have mixed reactions about creating something that wasn't intended for release.

ALL BETS ARE OFF, however, if Brian approved it or told Linett/Boyd that his original intention was to include those parts in the final release but had to trim it down or other reasons.

I was listening to the GV sessions from the 1993 box this weekend. Of course I maybe totally wrong, but I think the "Gotta keep.." vocals actually replaced the Humbeedums in the development of the song. They are both sung over the same backing track, which is in its originally recorded form only long enough for one of the two vocal parts. The Humbeedums weren't cut from a longer version, but instead, just as you said, cut and pasted into the session tape in 1993 or 1990.

Screw historical accuracy, I like it that way!

Also, i always assumed that Brian's verse vocals on this version, the softer delivery (as opposed to the more aggressive almost shouting takes) were from the Smiley sessions? He did these vocals during Smile sessions proper?

I wonder why nobody minded openly yet that on the session CDs for H&V contain Smiley sessions. Now we know for sure that the revised "My children were raised" was recorded June 14, 1967, including the harpsichord. (In my own mixes I always used this version as intro to Wonderful.)

[Ron]

It's interesting that they decided to push up the backing vocals on "Heroes & Villains". It creates a decent leap in volume at 0:20 that's not there on the Smiley Smile version (where the background vocals are mixed lower). It's a different effect. I wonder if they're basing this new approach on a vintage Brian mix, or simply because they thought it sounded good?  Either way, I'm not complaining... I just wonder how they made these decisions.

I honestly think their number 1 motivation in this mix is making it sound as much like BWPS as possible.  You can hear the backing vocals better in BWPS, so they pushed them up on this mix.  They are treating the 2004 album as canon.  This leads me to believe that either A. Brian is serious as a heart attack that 2004 was his original intended vision, or B. there are mixes/acetates/something showing that his 2004 album was pretty damn spot on.  So somebody in the mix, whether it's Brian or Mark or whoever, FIRMLY believes that the 2004 album was pretty close to what would have been released in 67.

[Ron]

I was listening to the GV sessions from the 1993 box this weekend. Of course I maybe totally wrong, but I think the "Gotta keep.." vocals actually replaced the Humbeedums in the development of the song. They are both sung over the same backing track, which is in its originally recorded form only long enough for one of the two vocal parts. The Humbeedums weren't cut from a longer version, but instead, just as you said, cut and pasted into the session tape in 1993 or 1990.

You may know much more about it than I, but I've always noticed, in the "hum be dum" mixes I've heard over the years, the bass either makes a mistake, or is edited badly just before the vocals start.  So they could have been cut out just to clean up that area, although Brian probably could have fixed the bass mistake anyways.  It's kind of still there in this mix.  There's an extra note, or a missing note, or something, listen to it and you'll hear what I'm talking about.  There's a nice bass groove going on (in the single) in that part, but if you listen to the 'hum be dum' take on the Pet Sounds box set (I think!), that nice bassline has a hicup in it just before the humbedum part starts. 

[guitarfool2002]

Go to 1:26 into the track...what's with that edit? You can still hear the fluttertone horn from another section

That's always been there, you can hear it on the Smiley version.

Exactly, it's just that on this modern version the rough quality of that edit jumps out at you more than it did buried in a rather muddy mix from '67. But it is definitely the fluttertone horn.

[buddhahat]

 well wow!

Thanks for whoever posted the YouTube link as I'm on holiday and can only listen on my phone.

Had really been wonderng how ML would get around the key mismatch of heroes followed by worms and I think the answer is in the use of the descending strings version of the flutter tone. Genius solution! Think we onlyhad a really bad version of that flutter tone on the boots too, right? What a blast - so excited about this release although might keep a low profile in these threads as think there will be a lot ofgriping soon about the bwps influence. Persoannly I love it. Much respet to mark linnett - this is going to be fab!

[Mr. Cohen]

That trail-off horn note is what the edit I pointed out on the "new" track seems to be. Hear those shortened horn notes at exactly :42 and 1:55 on that Britz mixdown.

Oh, I see what you're talking about now. My mistake. I think that sound was put there by Brian on purpose. I actually used to think that was Mike doing a bass vocal part! It blends nicely if you ask me.

[Mr. Cohen]

BTW... now that we're already listening to stuff from TSS... is it time to start pining for a complete "The Shortening Bread Exercises" box? With liner notes by Iggy Pop & David Bowie?

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm most reliably informed "you ain't heard nothin' yet". 

[guitarfool2002]

I was listening to the GV sessions from the 1993 box this weekend. Of course I maybe totally wrong, but I think the "Gotta keep.." vocals actually replaced the Humbeedums in the development of the song. They are both sung over the same backing track, which is in its originally recorded form only long enough for one of the two vocal parts. The Humbeedums weren't cut from a longer version, but instead, just as you said, cut and pasted into the session tape in 1993 or 1990.

You may know much more about it than I, but I've always noticed, in the "hum be dum" mixes I've heard over the years, the bass either makes a mistake, or is edited badly just before the vocals start.  So they could have been cut out just to clean up that area, although Brian probably could have fixed the bass mistake anyways.  It's kind of still there in this mix.  There's an extra note, or a missing note, or something, listen to it and you'll hear what I'm talking about.  There's a nice bass groove going on (in the single) in that part, but if you listen to the 'hum be dum' take on the Pet Sounds box set (I think!), that nice bassline has a hicup in it just before the humbedum part starts. 

Smiley Smile two-fer, track 24 GV "various sessions" exactly 6:23 is that "hiccup" bass note. I'm hearing it as deliberate, just what the bass player played to rhythmically accent that beat. I say that because he does the exact same thing at 6:29 on that track under the vocals, but it's on a different beat, accenting a different part of the beat, and it's not an edit there.

[Micha]

I was listening to the GV sessions from the 1993 box this weekend. Of course I maybe totally wrong, but I think the "Gotta keep.." vocals actually replaced the Humbeedums in the development of the song. They are both sung over the same backing track, which is in its originally recorded form only long enough for one of the two vocal parts. The Humbeedums weren't cut from a longer version, but instead, just as you said, cut and pasted into the session tape in 1993 or 1990.

You may know much more about it than I, but I've always noticed, in the "hum be dum" mixes I've heard over the years, the bass either makes a mistake, or is edited badly just before the vocals start.  So they could have been cut out just to clean up that area, although Brian probably could have fixed the bass mistake anyways.  It's kind of still there in this mix.  There's an extra note, or a missing note, or something, listen to it and you'll hear what I'm talking about.  There's a nice bass groove going on (in the single) in that part, but if you listen to the 'hum be dum' take on the Pet Sounds box set (I think!), that nice bassline has a hicup in it just before the humbedum part starts.  

That "hicup" is the place the Humbedum section was originally spliced in. That extra note is the one the bass starts with at 2:27. This time the Humbeedum section was spliced in with more care.

And this mix of H&V is obviously a 2011 or 2010 creation. The reason the first La seems chopped off is that that section isn't available as multitrack but from the final mix only. Remember, they had to do fake stereo on that section for the Endless Harmony stereo version. So they had to use the single version of that section, starting after the organ stops.

Sorry to FatheroftheMan, I PMed him before I read rhrough the thread. My bad.

[guitarfool2002]

I was listening to the GV sessions from the 1993 box this weekend. Of course I maybe totally wrong, but I think the "Gotta keep.." vocals actually replaced the Humbeedums in the development of the song. They are both sung over the same backing track, which is in its originally recorded form only long enough for one of the two vocal parts. The Humbeedums weren't cut from a longer version, but instead, just as you said, cut and pasted into the session tape in 1993 or 1990.

You may know much more about it than I, but I've always noticed, in the "hum be dum" mixes I've heard over the years, the bass either makes a mistake, or is edited badly just before the vocals start.  So they could have been cut out just to clean up that area, although Brian probably could have fixed the bass mistake anyways.  It's kind of still there in this mix.  There's an extra note, or a missing note, or something, listen to it and you'll hear what I'm talking about.  There's a nice bass groove going on (in the single) in that part, but if you listen to the 'hum be dum' take on the Pet Sounds box set (I think!), that nice bassline has a hicup in it just before the humbedum part starts. 

That "hicup" is the place the Humbedum section was originally spliced in. That extra note is the one the bass starts with at 2:27. This time the Humbeedum section was spliced in with more care.

It's not an edit or a splice, it's the way it was played by the bassist  - read my post just before this one and check those examples on the Smiley Smile two-fer. It's very easy to hear on that track.

[Ron]

O.K., if it's deliberate then, though, and it's not on the original single, doesn't that show that there were either two instrumental parts like that recorded (one with the extra notes, one without), or that the recording was originally longer and could have had both parts?  

(Not being argumentative, this is just something I've noticed for years)

[theCOD]

I'm most reliably informed "you ain't heard nothin' yet". 

You are not making the wait any easier! 

[guitarfool2002]

O.K., if it's deliberate then, though, and it's not on the original single, doesn't that show that there were either two instrumental parts like that recorded (one with the extra notes, one without), or that the recording was originally longer and could have had both parts?  

(Not being argumentative, this is just something I've noticed for years)

I agree, it's something that stands out and sounded like an edit or tape splice. But check out track 24 on the Smiley 2-fer, and it's a continuous recording with the "hiccups" coming from the player. That's not saying the continuous track wasn't edited and spliced, but the hiccups were not a result of that splice if they appear on the session tape where no edits were done. 5:48 to 6:52 is the entire unedited take of that section, and the bass player repeats that hiccup several times.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm most reliably informed "you ain't heard nothin' yet". 

You are not making the wait any easier! 

I know. 

[Micha]

It's not an edit or a splice, it's the way it was played by the bassist  - read my post just before this one and check those examples on the Smiley Smile two-fer. It's very easy to hear on that track.

I checked it, and I still think that's a splice at that spot. Listen to the flute (or harmonica?): It stops at the exact moment of the "hiccup" and starts again at 6:30.

IMHO the 6:23 "hiccup" note is the same note as at 6:01. The flute (or harmonica) starts at 6:09, about the same time it starts after the 6:23 "hiccup" note. The missing flute in between is to me proof that it's not a continuing backing track but a splice.

Hope I worded it in a way that could be understood? Not sure about that.
6:01 hiccup note, four bars later flute starts.
6:23 hiccup note, four bars later flute starts.

[guitarfool2002]

It's not an edit or a splice, it's the way it was played by the bassist  - read my post just before this one and check those examples on the Smiley Smile two-fer. It's very easy to hear on that track.

I checked it, and I still think that's a splice at that spot. Listen to the flute (or harmonica?): It stops at the exact moment of the "hiccup" and starts again at 6:30.

IMHO the 6:23 "hiccup" note is the same note as at 6:01. The flute (or harmonica) starts at 6:09, about the same time it starts after the 6:23 "hiccup" note. The missing flute in between is to me proof that it's not a continuing backing track but a splice.

Hope I worded it in a way that could be understood? Not sure about that.
6:01 hiccup note, four bars later flute starts.
6:23 hiccup note, four bars later flute starts.

Go to the SOT: Volume 15, disc 3 "Session #5". Tracks 2 through 9 are the clearest ones. The hiccup is on every track. My guess is Brian had the "hum be dum" vocals part available as 2 vocal overdubs, and on the released version he simply didn't have those faders up, or had the vocal tracks muted, whatever the case in '66 when they did the final mix they added instead the "Gotta keep those..." vocals instead of Hum Be Dum. The instrumental bed of bass, percussion, etc. is exactly the same. And he could also remove the bass harmonica overdub at will since it was an overdub. The released '66 version is that same bed onto which the hum-be-dum vocals were overdubbed.

What was the original question about a splice anyway? When was it, what was it, was it a splice? Were we talking about the released '66 single?

[Dunderhead]

ARGH ARGH
i just got home from work and this site is down. I need to hear this, please please please somebody help me.

[guitarfool2002]

Micha: Are you talking about the version just posted today? There is a difference of 8 bars of music between the two in the organ-bass-"hum be dum" section...the original 1966 session is 24 bars long and the version posted today is 32 bars long.

Maybe I was misunderstanding the original question - I apologize if that's the case. Perhaps I thought you meant the original single version, or was it that you thought the "hiccup" note was the result of the editing rather than the player playing it?

If anything that ending section was *definitely* extended 8 bars from how it was recorded originally on the session, but listening to the session tape the bassist plays the hiccup every time so it was done take after take and was planned out. On one take Brian has him play the accents in a higher octave, and he "hiccups" that pickup note in the higher octave too.

[chris.metcalfe]

I don't really like the humbedum part of Good Vibrations. There was a reason it wasn't included in the single. Heroes and Villains sounds soulless without the Baldwin. These are my current thoughts.

There is a Baldwin in there if you listen closely.

[Dunderhead]

I really think Heroes should always have False Barnyard. I *love* False Barnyard. Personally my favorite version will always be the "alternate version", I was listening to it earlier today and was really thinking about how radical it sounds, it's some crazy stuff.

Not to say that the version just released isn't great, because it is, it's really great.

[vintagemusic]

They sound great! I kind of like the offical Vibrations single, but its great, Hero's is superb

Does anybody have 320Kpbs on the Cabin Essence Vegetables promo 45. so I can hear all four
the ones on you tube are scratchy

[desmondo]

And I'd have dubbed the clarinet back onto Look. Its VINTAGE OK.




[/quote]

So where is that missing ?

[Paulos]

Wow, just wow. Especially the H&V ending, being a relative SMiLE novice i've never heard that before.

[John Manning]

Frankenmixes.