Who are these people?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Brian attended the July 17, 1968 Beach Boys concert in San Diego and looked great at that time.  He sat in the audience during the concert, and stood up and waved in all directions when introduced by Mike, who, as I recall, explained that Brian was there to check up on the band's performance.

When exactly was Brain institutionalized in 1968, and for how long?  What is known about the events leading up to his institutionalization?  Was Brian in favor of the idea? 

I have always wondered that myself.  Big mystery for me.

[Cam Mott]

Was he institutionalized in 1968 or hospitalized? Didn't he have an ear operation in 1968 which didn't work?

[Jay]

Seriously, does the Brian Wilson shown in those photos, November 1968 in a crowd of people at a public event, resemble the image some sources official and unofficial have promoted in the past? Maybe this was one isolated event but he looks comfortable and seems to be enjoying himself, tape recorder and all.

And yet his family, mostly off the record, have pointed to 1968 as the year something went permanently wrong with Brian's mental state. He was definitely institutionalized that year, and I've been told by several of his family and friends that he was never quite the same again post 1968.

Electric Shock "Therapy", perhaps? That's been known to really screw people up beyond repair.

[Ian]

Being in the hospital doesn't mean he still didn't go out or smile! There are pictures of him smiling in 1970!  He also did shows with the BBs in 1970 and very, long and lucid interviews around that time. 

[Cliff1000uk]

That's cool to hear-I wasn't aware he was at that show.  A fan who attended the BBs app in Anaheim (Melodyland show-missing from Badman book-but reviewed in LA Times) on Sept 27 and 28 1968 also saw Brian at those shows.  The fan had attended Hawthorne HS and Brian ended up conversing with him throughout the show-with lots of questions about old tecahers and students.  He also took part in a meet and greet before the show-it was a circular theatre and depending what entrance you came in you got to meet a different BB-the real lucky ones came face to face with Brian

That is such a cool idea-they could've done that at the Royal Albert Hall gig a couple of years ago.

*Prays it's Taylor*

[MBE]

there is no doubt that 1970 was a year of lost opportunities in terms of Brian-he was coming back and then retreated again.  But I think he still kind of had it together till 1973.  I think Murry's death in June 73 was a big deal-that kind of began the real decline

100 percent true every word.

[Amy B.]

That's cool to hear-I wasn't aware he was at that show.  A fan who attended the BBs app in Anaheim (Melodyland show-missing from Badman book-but reviewed in LA Times) on Sept 27 and 28 1968 also saw Brian at those shows.  The fan had attended Hawthorne HS and Brian ended up conversing with him throughout the show-with lots of questions about old tecahers and students.  He also took part in a meet and greet before the show-it was a circular theatre and depending what entrance you came in you got to meet a different BB-the real lucky ones came face to face with Brian

Wow, imagine getting to meet Brian at a show in the 60s. Different experience, that's for sure.

[MBE]

I have said it so many times but Brian in 1967-71 was so much more normal than at any time since. I say this as far as how he carried himself, how well he wrote and sang, how productive he was, he did not began this huge retreat after Smile. It's an easy out as to why they stopped having hits here or why the records said produced by the Beach Boys. The mental decline was gradual and began long before Smile, if he hadn't met Landy the Brian we see now (he he gotten some proper help) would be much more lucid.
It's not a news flash to most here but
1. Brian's role in the band was very important through the early seventies
2. Mike Love did not hate Pet Sounds, nor did he kill Smile
3. Brian never stayed in bed years at a time.

[guitarfool2002]

Was he institutionalized in 1968 or hospitalized? Didn't he have an ear operation in 1968 which didn't work?

This is exactly what I was thinking too: Was there a connection between the ear operation and the institutionalization? Or were they totally unrelated yet happened the same year?

It is true Brian had an ear operation to correct his hearing, and several interviews including one specific interview from Carl leading up to it mentioned the possibility that Brian may be able to hear "stereo" after the surgery. The operation did not work. It doesn't seem to be discussed too much in any history of the band or of Brian.

[drbeachboy]

Maybe the ear operation was a cover story for the institutionalization that occured? I doubt that they would have wanted that as public knowledge back then. That stuff was not as acceptable then as it is today.

[guitarfool2002]

Maybe the ear operation was a cover story for the institutionalization that occured? I doubt that they would have wanted that as public knowledge back then. That stuff was not as acceptable then as it is today.

An interesting possibility. Has the date of the surgery ever been confirmed or even given an approximate guess? I seem to remember a few articles mentioning it but cannot remember where or when they were from. It would help to narrow it down to even a month in 1968 or whenever it was.

[ghost]

On the subject of Brian's different phases and moods - please keep in mind that in mental illness you are not stuck 24/7 in the same state of mind. It's an episodic thing heavily related to the conditions surrounding the person. If things were going well and Brian kept afloat in his own mind there's no reason to think that the man could not and has not enjoyed himself plenty of times even during his "dark years". It is impossible to be happy ALL THE TIME anyway since all such things are just impermanent mind breezes...

Brian strikes me as a guy who chipped too much of his social ego away on acid, lost his competitive urges, and just withdrew into what he perceived to be a natural, humble life. Busy doing nothing, you know? And like he has said, he had the money to waste on drugs so he did, and that really does make the years pass by...

[Jon Stebbins]

I have said it so many times but Brian in 1967-71 was so much more normal than at any time since. I say this as far as how he carried himself, how well he wrote and sang, how productive he was, he did not began this huge retreat after Smile. It's an easy out as to why they stopped having hits here or why the records said produced by the Beach Boys. The mental decline was gradual and began long before Smile, if he hadn't met Landy the Brian we see now (he he gotten some proper help) would be much more lucid.
It's not a news flash to most here but
1. Brian's role in the band was very important through the early seventies
2. Mike Love did not hate Pet Sounds, nor did he kill Smile
3. Brian never stayed in bed years at a time.

There are definitely some things that have been regurgitated and overstated regarding Brian's retreat from activity, but the fact remains he was not the 100% reliable and consistently motivated group leader following his 1962 - early 1967 rule. He was still active and writing but to a gradually lessening degree beginning incrementally in mid 1967 to the point of being perhaps the least contributing Beach Boy by 1972. There are plenty of exceptions and spurts of creativity and participation, but if you were to look at a graph of his production and compositional contributions it would peak in 1967 and dwindle slowly from there to the point of being nearly non-existent by 1974. Therefore the definition of Brian as recluse or receding genius is probably fundamentally true, but not nuanced enough to tell the real story, which someone like you who sees it differently can counter to find some balance. But don't go too far with it, because Brian was only "normal" or "productive" in 1969 by 1979 standards, but certainly not by 1965 standards.

Mike Love had some problems with both Pet Sounds and Smile, you are certainly right that he didn't kill them, but he saw Pet Sounds as a departure from what he would have preferred, and to this day Mike isn't at all fond of Smile, mostly off the record. So much of the truth regarding the Beach Boys remains off the record. I think Smile represents something negative to Mike, precisely because of what it initiated with Brian (see above) and although Mike will not be saying that in public anymore, or at least for the next six months for sure...I think its true.

Brian's reputation as a recluse is not untrue. Bed, chair, couch, kitchen table...whatever...he was afraid to and/or refused go out during various periods. On the other hand he had periods of normalcy too, just not as consistently as a normal person.

There are so many Beach Boys things that are overblown and/or rooted in myth or partial myth. I think each of the things above are rooted in varying degrees of truth, but as i said usually without the essential nuance to truly understand that truth in a balanced way. By countering the usual meme you can bring light to the subject, but you still have to acknowledge what is essentially true. Example - The Beach Boys were not replaced by the Wrecking Crew in the studio on their records. Well, in truth, yes they were. But not to the degree or as early as the majority of journalists have reported. The nuanced truth is both the Beach Boys and the Wrecking Crew contributed instrumentally to the best of the Beach Boys work...and sometimes simultaneously. But for that brief window (Pet Sounds to Smile) the Beach Boys were mostly replaced as musicians. There is a basis of truth behind the very untruthful conventional wisdom of the Beach Boys as non-studio musicians. I guess our job is to break that down, and uncover the reality, but without overlooking the substance in what we are overcoming. That post was morning push-ups for my brain.

[Ian]

I agree 100% with what Jon said.  Often what happens is someone makes a statement that is sort of true-but they make it too blanket a statement.  Good example-is Mike's comment in Endless Harmony that after Smile-Brian was in bed, wouldn't come out, couldn't do anything.  Clearly that is too absolute and it is easy to pop holes in it-but he probably, in his own mind, sees that period as one in which Brian was basically absent.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The info is less than specific, but the source is credible: in summer 1968, Brian was committed to a psychiatric hospital, quite possibly at his own request.

June was awash with sessions, there were exactly three right at the end of July and none at all in August. Seven in early/mid-September. So... looks like July or August.

[monicker]

It's really weird to read some people's perception of mental illness here. It is perfectly possible and reasonable to be mentally ill and a) go out in public, b) smile and laugh, and c) have a good time. As ghost said, it is not 24/7. Or rather, it is, but it's not always manifesting itself in that cliche image of insanity that we are constantly being fed. I have had mentally ill and suicidal friends over the years, who laugh and smile plenty, and are also (with certain people) really good at hiding their misery. One of my current closest friends, actually, is quite mentally ill, the sickest person i've known--she is certifiably crazy and totally self-destructive and suicidal--and i laugh more with her than with anyone else. She also goes out from time to time. If years after the fact you looked at a chart that factored in her stints at mental hospitals and "going out," you'd probably discover that she went out within a week of being admitted in and out of the hospital. That might be surprising to discover if you are looking at someone's life as a narrative, years removed from all the events. While mental illness is a lot of things that it is reported to be, it's also not a lot of things it's reported to be. There is nothing unusual about a photo of Brian smiling out in public the year that he was institutionalized. Even more so, considering that most people put on an act for the media and cameras.

[Andrew G. Doe]

My perception of mental illness is informed by the personal experience of someone in my family. Me.

[Wirestone]

Jon: That post is probably one of the best single things I've read about the Boys in the last few years. Brilliant, spot on, and a refreshing tonic for everyone here.

[TdHabib]

Wonderful post Jon, bravo!

[guitarfool2002]

There is nothing unusual about a photo of Brian smiling out in public the year that he was institutionalized. Even more so, considering that most people put on an act for the media and cameras.

It was unusual to me in light of the decades of history being reported about Brian not going out, not wanting to be a part of large events like a movie premiere, and as another poster said, by his own comments about not going to see a movie at all for a long period of time after seeing "Seconds". And also his own comments and comments from his family and bandmates about "staying in bed" for long periods of time.

The photo contradicts all of that which we have read and heard and thus assumed about 1968, in a small way, and it actually helps clarify some of what was really going on. Even if it is just a set of photos from one event frozen in time.

This discussion is not about debating mental illness in any way, and if that is the impression some may be getting or leading up to, it is not what is going on. This is simply about a photo showing a man doing something which contradicts the image that has been portrayed through the years. And the more facts we are able to see, such as the photo, the better the story can be told. That's about it.

[Jon Stebbins]

There is nothing unusual about a photo of Brian smiling out in public the year that he was institutionalized. Even more so, considering that most people put on an act for the media and cameras.

It was unusual to me in light of the decades of history being reported about Brian not going out, not wanting to be a part of large events like a movie premiere, and as another poster said, by his own comments about not going to see a movie at all for a long period of time after seeing "Seconds". And also his own comments and comments from his family and bandmates about "staying in bed" for long periods of time.

The photo contradicts all of that which we have read and heard and thus assumed about 1968, in a small way, and it actually helps clarify some of what was really going on. Even if it is just a set of photos from one event frozen in time.

This discussion is not about debating mental illness in any way, and if that is the impression some may be getting or leading up to, it is not what is going on. This is simply about a photo showing a man doing something which contradicts the image that has been portrayed through the years. And the more facts we are able to see, such as the photo, the better the story can be told. That's about it.

I think contradictions are great, and as you said they help tell the story, but they have to be given a sober assessment in the overall. I doubt we'll ever see any photos of Brian sitting alone in the dark at home in 1968, or in a psychiatric facility, only the "normal" ones that counter that.

[MBE]

I have said it so many times but Brian in 1967-71 was so much more normal than at any time since. I say this as far as how he carried himself, how well he wrote and sang, how productive he was, he did not began this huge retreat after Smile. It's an easy out as to why they stopped having hits here or why the records said produced by the Beach Boys. The mental decline was gradual and began long before Smile, if he hadn't met Landy the Brian we see now (he he gotten some proper help) would be much more lucid.
It's not a news flash to most here but
1. Brian's role in the band was very important through the early seventies
2. Mike Love did not hate Pet Sounds, nor did he kill Smile
3. Brian never stayed in bed years at a time.

There are definitely some things that have been regurgitated and overstated regarding Brian's retreat from activity, but the fact remains he was not the 100% reliable and consistently motivated group leader following his 1962 - early 1967 rule. True but as early as 1963 he wasn't going to shows. The pattern had already begunHe was still active and writing but to a gradually lessening degree beginning incrementally in mid 1967 to the point of being perhaps the least contributing Beach Boy by 1972. Very true but before 1972 Brian had a lot of clout. I consider the use of Surf's Up in 1971 to be the real turning point as to when he really went on the sidelines.There are plenty of exceptions and spurts of creativity and participation, but if you were to look at a graph of his production and compositional contributions it would peak in 1967 and dwindle slowly from there to the point of being nearly non-existent by 1974.Also true by 1974 he was not a well man, you can see that in the photos, but isn't it interesting that he did work quite a bit that fall. Remember I am not trying to make it look like he was the same, just we were told he was in his room the entire year! Therefore the definition of Brian as recluse or receding genius is probably fundamentally true, but not nuanced enough to tell the real story, which someone like you who sees it differently can counter to find some balance. But don't go too far with it, because Brian was only "normal" or "productive" in 1969 by 1979 standards, but certainly not by 1965 standards.Again true, but there was a level of ease there before Murry died that never came back. Not that nothing had changed, but that the Brian of myth (or of say 1975 or 1981-2) didn't yet exist. The Beach Boys were much more of a group by 1969, but Brian was as active as the others in the studio with perhaps the exception of Carl. Still he sure was writing more than Carl.[/b]

Mike Love had some problems with both Pet Sounds and Smile, you are certainly right that he didn't kill them, but he saw Pet Sounds as a departure from what he would have preferred, and to this day Mike isn't at all fond of Smile, mostly off the record. So much of the truth regarding the Beach Boys remains off the record. I think Smile represents something negative to Mike, precisely because of what it initiated with Brian (see above) and although Mike will not be saying that in public anymore, or at least for the next six months for sure...I think its true. I think Mike wanted to write the lyrics for Pet Sounds, but I also think he liked a lot of the music. Hang On To Your Ego was kind of akward compared to I Know There's An Answer and I feel the change helped the album. That was his big objection at the time, but people make it like he hated the stuff. He performed very well on the LP "Here Today" for one(which he did great when I saw him in 2007), promoted it fully, and I feel came around. Smile is a different matter. I don't think it's a big secret that he wasn't thrilled by some of it, maybe right now he is temporing his remarks but he has made no secret that he isn't a fan of the era. I think you hit the nail on the head, it represents a lot of the downturn to follow career wise and eventually in Brian. Still he worked on it pretty hard, and while he could have been more tactful I doubt he thought Brian or the album would be destroyed by his remarks. Let's be frank Brian and the album weren't destroyed solely because Mike Love didn't like it. It didn't help the situation but Mike did do what Brian told him during those sessions-repeatedly.

Brian's reputation as a recluse is not untrue. Bed, chair, couch, kitchen table...whatever...he was afraid to and/or refused go out during various periods. On the other hand he had periods of normalcy too, just not as consistently as a normal person. Again this is true, but it began in 1963. I have read a 1964 interview with Brian where he complains that he can't take care of himself, take the vitamins, or eat the right foods like he did in high school. There was a small decline starting the moment he put on even a little weight and got Al to come back. No one could have seen what it would lead to by the mid seventies but that was a clear sign to me that Brian began to change from who he was as a teen.

There are so many Beach Boys things that are overblown and/or rooted in myth or partial myth. I think each of the things above are rooted in varying degrees of truth, but as i said usually without the essential nuance to truly understand that truth in a balanced way. By countering the usual meme you can bring light to the subject, but you still have to acknowledge what is essentially true. Example - The Beach Boys were not replaced by the Wrecking Crew in the studio on their records. Well, in truth, yes they were. But not to the degree or as early as the majority of journalists have reported. The nuanced truth is both the Beach Boys and the Wrecking Crew contributed instrumentally to the best of the Beach Boys work...and sometimes simultaneously. But for that brief window (Pet Sounds to Smile) the Beach Boys were mostly replaced as musicians. There is a basis of truth behind the very untruthful conventional wisdom of the Beach Boys as non-studio musicians. I guess our job is to break that down, and uncover the reality, but without overlooking the substance in what we are overcoming. Spot on.[/b]That post was morning push-ups for my brain.

[guitarfool2002]

There is nothing unusual about a photo of Brian smiling out in public the year that he was institutionalized. Even more so, considering that most people put on an act for the media and cameras.

It was unusual to me in light of the decades of history being reported about Brian not going out, not wanting to be a part of large events like a movie premiere, and as another poster said, by his own comments about not going to see a movie at all for a long period of time after seeing "Seconds". And also his own comments and comments from his family and bandmates about "staying in bed" for long periods of time.

The photo contradicts all of that which we have read and heard and thus assumed about 1968, in a small way, and it actually helps clarify some of what was really going on. Even if it is just a set of photos from one event frozen in time.

This discussion is not about debating mental illness in any way, and if that is the impression some may be getting or leading up to, it is not what is going on. This is simply about a photo showing a man doing something which contradicts the image that has been portrayed through the years. And the more facts we are able to see, such as the photo, the better the story can be told. That's about it.

I think contradictions are great, and as you said they help tell the story, but they have to be given a sober assessment in the overall. I doubt we'll ever see any photos of Brian sitting alone in the dark at home in 1968, or in a psychiatric facility, only the "normal" ones that counter that.

At the same time we won't see any photos of Brian regularly going bowling with the Rovell family during the Smile era, when the legend and the myth of that time period has Brian and friends engaging in far less mundane and more infamous activities. I think part of the trap fans fall into is getting most of their impressions from films and books which may embellish the truth for interest and as a result, the day-to-day normal activities of a celebrity like Brian get lumped in with the outrageous or the unusual, which may be more interesting of a story but not representative of the "big picture". Maybe in October 1966, or whenever, Brian held a dinner party where they banged silverware on glasses and plates and Jules Siegel reported it, but was every dinner in Fall 1966 that way? Do fans assume it was always that way because the only account they've read of a specific dinner Brian hosted in 1966 was like that? Or was it more along the lines of Brian eating regular meals in a normal way most nights of the week?

I guess I can also point to years of me watching almost every BB's documentary, TV special, and reading nearly every book that comes out, and getting the impression that Brian withdrew publicly and professionally after 1967 and for a period of time in the late 60's was not making public appearances or doing much other than hanging around his house. "Busy Doin' Nothing"? I hadn't seen the public side of Brian as much as hearing about Brian being reclusive. Now we find out Brian was meeting and greeting fans at a concert in Fall 1968...that kind of info is pretty startling in light of the previous image we may have had.

[Cam Mott]

Also, we tend take what we are told as fact rather than someone's impression especially if it comes from an eyewitness. For instance, Tony Asher has given or it has been taken as a fact that the Boys didn't like his lyrics and were dissing him/them at a recording session. However Tony has volunteered that that is just his impression, it may not have been what he thought it was. When pressed [too strong a word] he remembers comments like "that Tony Asher writes some good lyrics". He took it as sarcasm but he has confided that he might have just taken it wrong.

The other problem is memory. I may not remember it right.

[guitarfool2002]

The info is less than specific, but the source is credible: in summer 1968, Brian was committed to a psychiatric hospital, quite possibly at his own request.

June was awash with sessions, there were exactly three right at the end of July and none at all in August. Seven in early/mid-September. So... looks like July or August.

Would this be the same time Brian may have had that surgery to correct his hearing? Or do we have a specific date for that surgery? I've been interested in that date for a long time, and I'd guess it would have had to happen when there were no sessions and/or appearances for obvious reasons.