The Smiley Smile Message Board

Middle girl isn't Diane - way too short, and nose is wrong.

Barbara Gaddy?

Al has his David Frost/Cottonfields look, 1968/69?

Dunno. It looks like the 20/20 era dressed Al. And I vagualy remember a picture of the Boys including Brian performing at the Whiskey; Brian's hair was much longer on that pic. compared to this one.

The photos of Brian singing with Marilyn et al-were taken at a showcase/party that the BBs threw for the Flame in the summer of 1970-four or five months before the Whiskey gigs.  Around the time Jack Rieley appeared on the scene

Why is Brian holding a tape recorder ?

I think it's a magic transistor radio :-D
_____

And yeah, that is the spitting image of the Brian Wilson doll :o

I thought it was a stereo or early cassette player to play "be my baby" while Brian was on the go.

Looks like an 8 track player to me; even has the end of a tape sticking up out of the player on the right side closest to Brian

I see that tape sticking out on closer look, so  it probably is an 8 track player.

let me see (got these pictures from gettyimages btw.):

http://www.gettyimages.nl/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&assetType=image&family=Editorial&p=beach+boys+whisky#

They performed at the Whisky-A-Go-Go on
- Nov. 4 - 7th 1970. Carl obviously had a beard then. Brian doesn't look like the one shown in the picture above with Al/Lynda/Marylin
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2zxxum0.jpg)   (http://i53.tinypic.com/zlyolg.jpg)

One possibility for that photo...Jack Lloyd told me that he accompanied Brian, Carl, Al and wives and maybe Bruce to see Elvis in Las Vegas during his first and most exciting engagement there (he opened on July 31 1969 and was there three weeks).  BBs were on tour and weren't back till Aug 3-so Aug 3 or after.  He was emphatic that Brian joined them to see Elvis.  But he said that when he tried to get permission to bring them up to Elvis room after the show one of the "Memphis Mafia" said it was too crowded up there and  no more visitors could come up.  So that could be from that night???
Would be hard to prove this though

That'd be interesting. I always heard the story that the Beach Boys visited Elvis in Vegas but without Brian. Al and Bruce (iirc) visited him in RCA's studio during sessions for Little Bird while Elvis was recording the soundtrack to Live A Little Love A Little. But I believe I got this from Badman. He also said that Bruce visited Elvis in '65/'66 while they were working on Pet Sounds. But Brian chickened out.

The engagement went 'til August 28th, so it's more like 4 weeks. The International usually was full of stars that wanted to see Elvis and photographers were all around, so it could be that this shot was taken then and there.
For Rock'n'Roll nothing gets better than Elvis live in '69 but his engagements in '70 - '72 were much better for more recent stuff and bombastic ballads. Beautiful.

Anyway, Mike Eder might have more info on this if it should be from a visit to Elvis.

Holy smokes Lynda Jardine is beautiful!

But as to the Whisky shows-I think all those shots are from the Nov 70 engagement. They were there for four days-only two with Brian.  In a wider color shot with Brian-you also see Daryl and Ed Carter were there in 70 too.  I think Carl shaved midway through-he was just starting his beard phase then and may have decided to chuck it then thought better of it.  He did have a beard again by Nov 16 when they headed to Europe.  

Holy smokes Lynda Jardine is beautiful!

The next question is, what was BW doing with the tape recorder?

She sure was. Al you old dog you! Didn't Dennis tap that at some point?

Thought it was Fishmonk - he uses/used the same moniker.

No matter, just dumb. Sometimes ya gotta have a little respect for people, you know? The woman is very nice and classy - I met her once in Monterey.

Geez. And I thought I was bad....

actually I am pretty positive about it-all these pics were mostly taken by Earl Leaf and appeared in Teen Magazine in 1970-71 issues-in his monthly column. I have to look through them-but pretty sure the photos were in issues before April 71.  By the way Carl isn't exactly clean shaven and the beard was already coming back

Now theeeeere's a real smart post.  Real whippy, with her son reading this board and all.  ::)

One of your all time posts, Fishmonk.  And you've made some real doozies here.

Can I ask; why all this name switching? Is it juvenile humor or something? It is kind of hard to have a conversation and know fellow posters with all this name switching. I notice even the Mods do it too. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, just want to know why some you do this stuff.

Now theeeeere's a real smart post.  Real whippy, with her son reading this board and all.  ::)

One of your all time posts, Fishmonk.  And you've made some real doozies here.

Well, in one instance, I'm guessing someone didn't like being referred to as both "Flash Harry" and "Lapdog". BTW, isn't there some kind of netiquette about using someone else's avatar ?

So we either get back at 'em by doing the same thing or ITF.  The admins obviously don't give a poo and aren't doing anything about it.

Where's Chuckie these days anyway?

Hmmmm. The fact that the Bruce Willis avatar is in fact one of the default settings on the account profile page seems to have escaped one or two people. Nevermind. Hope nobody takes offence at my new persona.

Hmmmm. The fact that the Bruce Willis avatar is in fact one of the default settings on the account profile page seems to have escaped one or two people. Nevermind. Hope nobody takes offence at my new persona.

Just clowning around. If the idiotic tone of my posts don't give away it's me, there's always a "the many moods of mike's beard" tag under my avatar. I might go back to being "Scarlett's Rack" next. For some reason I can't quite fantom it seemed to be quite popular.

A much more fitting avatar for your name. Still, would you mind answering the question that I posed earlier, why all the changes to your handle name and avatar?

For me personally, I do it every two weeks or so cause I get bored.

Also interesting that Brian's discredited auto-bio claims that he didn't attend any theatrical film screenings between SECONDS (1966) and E.T. (1982). I have to assume he actually went in and watched YELLOW SUBMARINE, right? Or did he just stay in the lobby recording his thoughts on tape?

I think it's pretty obvious that the whole "Brian as recluse who won't leave his bedroom" story was blown out-of-proportion and maintained simply because it makes interesting press. This is not to say that Brian hasn't suffered from debilitating mental illness or displayed anti-social behavior, but that he was far from being rock's Howard Hughes. The press still loves the angle; just two weeks ago, Mitch Albom had a Detroit Free Press column in which he referred to Brian in the present tense as a "semi-recluse"! If Brian is a "semi-recluse" these days, I must be a complete hermit.

Seriously, does the Brian Wilson shown in those photos, November 1968 in a crowd of people at a public event, resemble the image some sources official and unofficial have promoted in the past? Maybe this was one isolated event but he looks comfortable and seems to be enjoying himself, tape recorder and all.

And yet his family, mostly off the record, have pointed to 1968 as the year something went permanently wrong with Brian's mental state. He was definitely institutionalized that year, and I've been told by several of his family and friends that he was never quite the same again post 1968.

Brian attended the July 17, 1968 Beach Boys concert in San Diego and looked great at that time.  He sat in the audience during the concert, and stood up and waved in all directions when introduced by Mike, who, as I recall, explained that Brian was there to check up on the band's performance.

When exactly was Brain institutionalized in 1968, and for how long?  What is known about the events leading up to his institutionalization?  Was Brian in favor of the idea? 

And yet his family, mostly off the record, have pointed to 1968 as the year something went permanently wrong with Brian's mental state. He was definitely institutionalized that year, and I've been told by several of his family and friends that he was never quite the same again post 1968.

That's cool to hear-I wasn't aware he was at that show.  A fan who attended the BBs app in Anaheim (Melodyland show-missing from Badman book-but reviewed in LA Times) on Sept 27 and 28 1968 also saw Brian at those shows.  The fan had attended Hawthorne HS and Brian ended up conversing with him throughout the show-with lots of questions about old tecahers and students.  He also took part in a meet and greet before the show-it was a circular theatre and depending what entrance you came in you got to meet a different BB-the real lucky ones came face to face with Brian

there is no doubt that 1970 was a year of lost opportunities in terms of Brian-he was coming back and then retreated again.  But I think he still kind of had it together till 1973.  I think Murry's death in June 73 was a big deal-that kind of began the real decline

That's cool to hear-I wasn't aware he was at that show.  A fan who attended the BBs app in Anaheim (Melodyland show-missing from Badman book-but reviewed in LA Times) on Sept 27 and 28 1968 also saw Brian at those shows.  The fan had attended Hawthorne HS and Brian ended up conversing with him throughout the show-with lots of questions about old tecahers and students.  He also took part in a meet and greet before the show-it was a circular theatre and depending what entrance you came in you got to meet a different BB-the real lucky ones came face to face with Brian

Was he institutionalized in 1968 or hospitalized? Didn't he have an ear operation in 1968 which didn't work?

Maybe the ear operation was a cover story for the institutionalization that occured? I doubt that they would have wanted that as public knowledge back then. That stuff was not as acceptable then as it is today.

I have said it so many times but Brian in 1967-71 was so much more normal than at any time since. I say this as far as how he carried himself, how well he wrote and sang, how productive he was, he did not began this huge retreat after Smile. It's an easy out as to why they stopped having hits here or why the records said produced by the Beach Boys. The mental decline was gradual and began long before Smile, if he hadn't met Landy the Brian we see now (he he gotten some proper help) would be much more lucid.
It's not a news flash to most here but
1. Brian's role in the band was very important through the early seventies
2. Mike Love did not hate Pet Sounds, nor did he kill Smile
3. Brian never stayed in bed years at a time.

There is nothing unusual about a photo of Brian smiling out in public the year that he was institutionalized. Even more so, considering that most people put on an act for the media and cameras.

It was unusual to me in light of the decades of history being reported about Brian not going out, not wanting to be a part of large events like a movie premiere, and as another poster said, by his own comments about not going to see a movie at all for a long period of time after seeing "Seconds". And also his own comments and comments from his family and bandmates about "staying in bed" for long periods of time.

The photo contradicts all of that which we have read and heard and thus assumed about 1968, in a small way, and it actually helps clarify some of what was really going on. Even if it is just a set of photos from one event frozen in time.

This discussion is not about debating mental illness in any way, and if that is the impression some may be getting or leading up to, it is not what is going on. This is simply about a photo showing a man doing something which contradicts the image that has been portrayed through the years. And the more facts we are able to see, such as the photo, the better the story can be told. That's about it.

There are definitely some things that have been regurgitated and overstated regarding Brian's retreat from activity, but the fact remains he was not the 100% reliable and consistently motivated group leader following his 1962 - early 1967 rule. True but as early as 1963 he wasn't going to shows. The pattern had already begunHe was still active and writing but to a gradually lessening degree beginning incrementally in mid 1967 to the point of being perhaps the least contributing Beach Boy by 1972. Very true but before 1972 Brian had a lot of clout. I consider the use of Surf's Up in 1971 to be the real turning point as to when he really went on the sidelines.There are plenty of exceptions and spurts of creativity and participation, but if you were to look at a graph of his production and compositional contributions it would peak in 1967 and dwindle slowly from there to the point of being nearly non-existent by 1974.Also true by 1974 he was not a well man, you can see that in the photos, but isn't it interesting that he did work quite a bit that fall. Remember I am not trying to make it look like he was the same, just we were told he was in his room the entire year! Therefore the definition of Brian as recluse or receding genius is probably fundamentally true, but not nuanced enough to tell the real story, which someone like you who sees it differently can counter to find some balance. But don't go too far with it, because Brian was only "normal" or "productive" in 1969 by 1979 standards, but certainly not by 1965 standards.Again true, but there was a level of ease there before Murry died that never came back. Not that nothing had changed, but that the Brian of myth (or of say 1975 or 1981-2) didn't yet exist. The Beach Boys were much more of a group by 1969, but Brian was as active as the others in the studio with perhaps the exception of Carl. Still he sure was writing more than Carl.[/b]

Mike Love had some problems with both Pet Sounds and Smile, you are certainly right that he didn't kill them, but he saw Pet Sounds as a departure from what he would have preferred, and to this day Mike isn't at all fond of Smile, mostly off the record. So much of the truth regarding the Beach Boys remains off the record. I think Smile represents something negative to Mike, precisely because of what it initiated with Brian (see above) and although Mike will not be saying that in public anymore, or at least for the next six months for sure...I think its true. I think Mike wanted to write the lyrics for Pet Sounds, but I also think he liked a lot of the music. Hang On To Your Ego was kind of akward compared to I Know There's An Answer and I feel the change helped the album. That was his big objection at the time, but people make it like he hated the stuff. He performed very well on the LP "Here Today" for one(which he did great when I saw him in 2007), promoted it fully, and I feel came around. Smile is a different matter. I don't think it's a big secret that he wasn't thrilled by some of it, maybe right now he is temporing his remarks but he has made no secret that he isn't a fan of the era. I think you hit the nail on the head, it represents a lot of the downturn to follow career wise and eventually in Brian. Still he worked on it pretty hard, and while he could have been more tactful I doubt he thought Brian or the album would be destroyed by his remarks. Let's be frank Brian and the album weren't destroyed solely because Mike Love didn't like it. It didn't help the situation but Mike did do what Brian told him during those sessions-repeatedly.

Brian's reputation as a recluse is not untrue. Bed, chair, couch, kitchen table...whatever...he was afraid to and/or refused go out during various periods. On the other hand he had periods of normalcy too, just not as consistently as a normal person. Again this is true, but it began in 1963. I have read a 1964 interview with Brian where he complains that he can't take care of himself, take the vitamins, or eat the right foods like he did in high school. There was a small decline starting the moment he put on even a little weight and got Al to come back. No one could have seen what it would lead to by the mid seventies but that was a clear sign to me that Brian began to change from who he was as a teen.

There are so many Beach Boys things that are overblown and/or rooted in myth or partial myth. I think each of the things above are rooted in varying degrees of truth, but as i said usually without the essential nuance to truly understand that truth in a balanced way. By countering the usual meme you can bring light to the subject, but you still have to acknowledge what is essentially true. Example - The Beach Boys were not replaced by the Wrecking Crew in the studio on their records. Well, in truth, yes they were. But not to the degree or as early as the majority of journalists have reported. The nuanced truth is both the Beach Boys and the Wrecking Crew contributed instrumentally to the best of the Beach Boys work...and sometimes simultaneously. But for that brief window (Pet Sounds to Smile) the Beach Boys were mostly replaced as musicians. There is a basis of truth behind the very untruthful conventional wisdom of the Beach Boys as non-studio musicians. I guess our job is to break that down, and uncover the reality, but without overlooking the substance in what we are overcoming. Spot on.[/b]That post was morning push-ups for my brain.

I think contradictions are great, and as you said they help tell the story, but they have to be given a sober assessment in the overall. I doubt we'll ever see any photos of Brian sitting alone in the dark at home in 1968, or in a psychiatric facility, only the "normal" ones that counter that.

The info is less than specific, but the source is credible: in summer 1968, Brian was committed to a psychiatric hospital, quite possibly at his own request.

June was awash with sessions, there were exactly three right at the end of July and none at all in August. Seven in early/mid-September. So... looks like July or August.

At the same time we won't see any photos of Brian regularly going bowling with the Rovell family during the Smile era...

I'd say the odds on seeing that are much more friendly than the odds of seeing one of  Brian in a psych ward. My point is people tend to take photos of happy times, public times, times when they are ready to be seen. If there are 27 photos of happy Brian in 1968 its likely he'll be meeting and greeting and doing regular normal human pop star stuff in them. There will not be any fetal position screaming at the audio hallucination demons to leave him alone photos. Therefore the happy ones that counter all the books, documentaries and articles do enlighten... but to what degree? None of us have an exactly accurate gauge, but my gut feeling says don't give them too much weight. 

I'd say the odds on seeing that are much more friendly than the odds of seeing one of  Brian in a psych ward. My point is people tend to take photos of happy times, public times, times when they are ready to be seen. If there are 27 photos of happy Brian in 1968 its likely he'll be meeting and greeting and doing regular normal human pop star stuff in them. There will not be any fetal position screaming at the audio hallucination demons to leave him alone photos. Therefore the happy ones that counter all the books, documentaries and articles do enlighten... but to what degree? None of us have an exactly accurate gauge, but my gut feeling says don't give them too much weight.