gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
655548 Posts in 26192 Topics by 3726 Members - Latest Member: DerekTaylorIsAGenius February 28, 2020, 10:46:30 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Jon Stebbins Thread  (Read 93172 times)
sailonsailor
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2006, 11:02:40 AM »

Jon, thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. I'll be interested in reading your David Marks book.
Logged
sailonsailor
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


View Profile
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2006, 11:45:16 AM »

By the way, just watched that YouTube live footage of IT'S ABOUT TIME. Mind: totally blown.
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2006, 01:59:51 AM »

Jon do you think 74-77 was a good personally or just artistically? As far as music I agree that it was a huge peak  comparable to 68-72. However personally I think it's when he began his slide. 74 was when he lost his real voice through a fight. It didn't help that he was getting into cocaine heavier. Now late 74 and he meets Karen he cleaned up a little and got into sailing erx. but if you notice he already looks a little more frayed at the edges by the end of 75 and had a incident with ludes on stage (not the time he mentioned them in 79).  I would have to say 76 was an overall good year but as the months passed he looked older and older. 77 and his drug use is soaring, he was still fairly togehter, but really on a bad road. 1978 was the real decline but I think the stresses of the last few years and Karen herself going down hill must of been a cause. I mean people mention the hand incident in 71 as the first sign of trouble, but with him building his friendship with Murry and still having Barbara in his life I have to say he still had a chance at that point. You know the people who knew Dennis a lot better then me but do you think I am far off base?
Logged
kirt
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


View Profile
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2006, 07:33:57 AM »

   I read alot about Dennis's rough voice being the result of a fight ,but Brian's voice went rough about the same time and I don't think anyone hit or stepped on his throat. I just figured it was from drugs,alcohol and cigarettes. It seems like the other Beach Boys would have reacted in some way, because Dennis's voice was some of their lively hood. If this true were there  any punishments for these bozos? 
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4487


View Profile WWW
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2006, 07:53:40 AM »

I think Murry's death had a profound impact on both Brian & Dennis.  Neither could bring himself to attend the funeral, and in the year folowing his death they both began to reach new heights of "over indulgence" in:  cigarettes, booze, drugs, and sex (Dennis), and cigarettes, booze, drugs, and food (Brian).  I believe they both tried to allow Murry to live on through them by adopting a courser appearance and mannerism, trying to be "men" for the first time in their lives, as opposed to "boys".  We see this in Brian's deliberate near-abandonment of his wonderful falsetto voice in favor of lower-register singing, and Dennis acting more "macho" than ever before. 

Craig
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4487


View Profile WWW
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2006, 07:56:21 AM »

BTW, Carl reportedly used cigarettes to deliberately "roughen up" his voice, as well, to give it the rock/r'n'b edge he desired.  I'm not saying that's the only reason any of the Wilson Bros. smoked, but I think they liked what it did to their voices.  They wanted the tougher, more "manly" image and sound at that point in their careers and lives. 

Craig
Logged
Jon Stebbins
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2624


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2006, 09:23:59 AM »

Al told me a couple months back he thinks Brian wrecked his voice on purpose because he wanted to sound more "macho"...he never got over the sounding like a girl thing. As with most things Beach Boy there's probably a thread of truth in that, as well as enough counter anecdotes to dispute it. But Al was very sincere about this, he thinks of the loss of Brian's voice as the number one tragedy for the group .

MBE...you said it yourself...for Dennis '78 was the beginning of the real decline. Compared to '78 Dennis in '74 was a mormon boy scout on a health mission. He actually was pretty clean in '74 compared to the previous couple of years. If you look at photos of him from '74 - '75 he's in absolute perfect physical shape, he looks like a freakin' acrobat...the cut muscles had mostly disappeared by '80. Having Karen in his life was a motivation on some level. She was his Murry for a few years. Like Murry she was very agressive, and pushed him to work for success...but like Murry she cut both ways. The positive side was that he was very productive in '75 - '77 after a couple of years of limited productivity in '72 - '73 due to non-stop Golden Cadillacs down the hatch. Having Brother was the biggest thing. Dennis utilized it more than any of the BB's, and he certainly got the most out of it...Alan Boyd will testify that Dennis was the one who found the best sounds it could give. Earle Mankey told me Dennis clearly out worked everybody during this period. Mike never wanted to rehearse or spend time in the studio, In '75 Brian would show up, everybody would get all excited... then he'd work for 30 minutes and split. Carl was around but never driven to produce piles of tracks and experiment like Dennis. I think Carl's best period was '71 - '73. Anyway, Dennis was a pretty healthy guy during the Brother period, yes he partied his ass off and screwed around with everybody's wives and girlfriends, but he'd been doing that since he was 15. By '77 some more serious issues had kicked in like heroin(courtesy of Karen), alcoholism(courtesy of endless demons), and he'd soon be buried under a Fleetwood Mac sized pile of cocaine and drowning in Meyers Rum. I think he basically gave up once the BB's made him choose between being in the Beach Boys and being a solo artist...it happened in late '77...and believe me they DID make him choose. They could not cope with the fact that he was potentially a succesful solo artist, and he couldn't cope with the responsibility of being on his own. It's basically the same thing they did to Brian, just on a smaller scale, or a more expedited scale.

Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2006, 10:49:35 AM »

Al told me a couple months back he thinks Brian wrecked his voice on purpose because he wanted to sound more "macho"...he never got over the sounding like a girl thing. As with most things Beach Boy there's probably a thread of truth in that, as well as enough counter anecdotes to dispute it. But Al was very sincere about this, he thinks of the loss of Brian's voice as the number one tragedy for the group .
 
I have heard this too from several people. I think it's the truth. Since Brian didn't get knocked in the throat, the mere 12 months between the Caribou sessions and  the Back Home recording could have only been done on purpose.

Very intersting info on Dennis. Karen's positive/negative effect is very well explained.
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2006, 04:07:02 AM »

I think he basically gave up once the BB's made him choose between being in the Beach Boys and being a solo artist...it happened in late '77...and believe me they DID make him choose. They could not cope with the fact that he was potentially a succesful solo artist, and he couldn't cope with the responsibility of being on his own. It's basically the same thing they did to Brian, just on a smaller scale, or a more expedited scale.

Wasn't Dennis recording another solo album after '77?  Were Mike's and Carl's solo careers similarly halted?
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Jon Stebbins
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2624


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2006, 11:15:39 AM »

I think he basically gave up once the BB's made him choose between being in the Beach Boys and being a solo artist...it happened in late '77...and believe me they DID make him choose. They could not cope with the fact that he was potentially a succesful solo artist, and he couldn't cope with the responsibility of being on his own. It's basically the same thing they did to Brian, just on a smaller scale, or a more expedited scale.

Wasn't Dennis recording another solo album after '77?  Were Mike's and Carl's solo careers similarly halted?

Dennis' solo recording was sporadic at best after Brother was sold in late '77. Carl's solo career was tolerated, and he was even allowed to tour and then come back to the BB's. Dennis was told he could not do both in Nov. '77.

The main difference between Mike and Carl's solo careers, and Dennis' is that Dennis' sales numbers actually competed with BB's sales, and according to Al he even outsold them for a time. Mike and Carl never presented that problem.
Logged
Emdeeh
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2453



View Profile
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2006, 02:15:08 PM »

Quote from: c-man
BTW, Carl reportedly used cigarettes to deliberately "roughen up" his voice, as well, to give it the rock/r'n'b edge he desired.

I dunno about the smoking part -- Carl started smoking in his early teens, so he was probably hooked well before the BBs started. It is clear that he was trying to get that rougher singing edge in how he tried to stretch his voice stylistically, but he didn't necessarily need to "use" anything for that purpose.

What I DO know is that, shortly after he quit smoking, Carl told my husband that he wished he'd taken better care of his voice over the years. A few years after he said that, Carl started taking lessons from a vocal coach.
Logged
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2006, 03:07:35 PM »

I think he basically gave up once the BB's made him choose between being in the Beach Boys and being a solo artist...it happened in late '77...and believe me they DID make him choose. They could not cope with the fact that he was potentially a succesful solo artist, and he couldn't cope with the responsibility of being on his own. It's basically the same thing they did to Brian, just on a smaller scale, or a more expedited scale.

Wasn't Dennis recording another solo album after '77? Were Mike's and Carl's solo careers similarly halted?

Dennis' solo recording was sporadic at best after Brother was sold in late '77. Carl's solo career was tolerated, and he was even allowed to tour and then come back to the BB's. Dennis was told he could not do both in Nov. '77.

The main difference between Mike and Carl's solo careers, and Dennis' is that Dennis' sales numbers actually competed with BB's sales, and according to Al he even outsold them for a time. Mike and Carl never presented that problem.

Jon, didn't Carl fly solo principally because he was disgusted and frustrated at what they had become ? Solo album or no, I think he would have walked in any event. His comments on the Long Beach '81 gig said it all (this is a compound quote, but Carl did say this): "That was painful... some rehearsals would help".
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Jon Stebbins
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2624


View Profile
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2006, 04:14:29 PM »

I think he basically gave up once the BB's made him choose between being in the Beach Boys and being a solo artist...it happened in late '77...and believe me they DID make him choose. They could not cope with the fact that he was potentially a succesful solo artist, and he couldn't cope with the responsibility of being on his own. It's basically the same thing they did to Brian, just on a smaller scale, or a more expedited scale.

Wasn't Dennis recording another solo album after '77? Were Mike's and Carl's solo careers similarly halted?

Dennis' solo recording was sporadic at best after Brother was sold in late '77. Carl's solo career was tolerated, and he was even allowed to tour and then come back to the BB's. Dennis was told he could not do both in Nov. '77.

The main difference between Mike and Carl's solo careers, and Dennis' is that Dennis' sales numbers actually competed with BB's sales, and according to Al he even outsold them for a time. Mike and Carl never presented that problem.

Jon, didn't Carl fly solo principally because he was disgusted and frustrated at what they had become ? Solo album or no, I think he would have walked in any event. His comments on the Long Beach '81 gig said it all (this is a compound quote, but Carl did say this): "That was painful... some rehearsals would help".

Yes. Maybe he was stronger than Dennis in that way.

 
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2006, 02:06:55 PM »

Did Al mention how they coped with Mike and Brian having a "solo" hit single with Almost Summer at that same time?
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Bob Hanes
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


View Profile
« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2006, 02:15:56 PM »

that whole "hit" fiasco" is a wonderful story from beginning to end.
It is however, a contractual thing rather than a "I have a need to express myself musically" thing, like the individuals "solo" career attempts.
The BBs were under contract to 2 (count 'em) record labels at the same time and the opportunity to do the theme song for this movie was offered to Brian.  Over the lunch meeting of the offer Brian wrote out the chord progressions and some lyrics on a napkin.  The "playa's" were so impressed they insisted that it had to be used.  Mike found a way, to his credit, and the rest is rock n roll.
I don't really think anyone had to "deal" with much of anything over that one.
And btw for the record, Brian's version is way mo better'n Endless Summer Beach Band or Celebration or whatever they called themselves for 29.4 minutes.
Logged

The Right Reverend, Left Leaning Bob, Dumb Angel Chapel, Church of the Harmonic Over-dub
MBE
Guest
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2006, 10:42:09 PM »

Mike's solo record invovled the other Beach Boys. I know Al was initally in Celebration, and as well as going on t.v. with Mike to promote Brian wrote Almost Summer. Carl also did a gig with Celebration. The point is is that it was a more group oriented project and really posed no artistic threat to anyone. Dennis was simply doing something different enough and seperate enough to be a threat. It was envy, and as Al said later Deniis was doing better work then the Beach Boys were at the time.  Dennis should have left and gone solo perhaps he would have straightened out.
Logged
Bob Hanes
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


View Profile
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2006, 01:02:59 AM »

the original title of the movie was "High School" until the producers heard Brian's song, Almost Summer. 
Eddie Carter, Charles Lloyd (I always hated it when Mike would say "we call him the chief, cause he has his war paint on").the guys out of King Harvest too I believe.  They were all in the BBs touring band.  It was something to do until WB finally accepted the "last" BB album, and they could get on with the new high signing bonus Caribou/Columbia deal. Obviously Mike likes to work and stay busy (that was actually one of the explainations of the day about why Celebration rather than the BBs and why Carl wasn't more involved).  Carl didn't have any desire to do much of anything, given everything else going on in his life at the time.  Al participated to the degree he chose, and was able given the issues in his life.  Brian once again was needed to write and "sell" the music. (by this I mean to the record company hacks that make those oh so important decisions.)  Their appearance on some Dick Clark show was a trip.  I wonder if I still have video of that?  They did the "b" side. Recording 25 or more seperate versions for major cities, naming "hot spots" and local scenery of these places  around the nation was wonderful/brilliant promotion for the record and the movie.   Anyone?
Like I said earlier, nothing really, to "deal with".  b
Logged

The Right Reverend, Left Leaning Bob, Dumb Angel Chapel, Church of the Harmonic Over-dub
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2006, 03:53:57 AM »

Thanks for the clarification.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
MBE
Guest
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2006, 04:39:52 AM »

On my VHS copy they do both sides of the single but its a version so many sources away from the original that its in black and white!
Logged
Howie Edelson
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 599


View Profile
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2006, 02:54:39 PM »

Hey Jon -- Can you shed any light on whether Dennis was docked payment in '70/'71 for his various missed shows, due to injury or filming? Obviously, when forced out of the band during the various stretches in the early '80s he indeed WAS docked; but I was wondering if during the early '70s no shows, he still was able to take his cut of each gig, ala Brian.

Also, is there any evidence that the substitute drummers throughout the years (Figueroa, Dennis Dragon, Kowalski, etc...), were paid additionally for drumming on these Dennis-less concerts?
Logged
Jon Stebbins
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2624


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2006, 01:56:15 PM »

Hey Jon -- Can you shed any light on whether Dennis was docked payment in '70/'71 for his various missed shows, due to injury or filming? Obviously, when forced out of the band during the various stretches in the early '80s he indeed WAS docked; but I was wondering if during the early '70s no shows, he still was able to take his cut of each gig, ala Brian.

Also, is there any evidence that the substitute drummers throughout the years (Figueroa, Dennis Dragon, Kowalski, etc...), were paid additionally for drumming on these Dennis-less concerts?

That question is coming from a very informed perspective Howie. I've never even pondered this myself until now. you're right about the later days...he certainly was docked or cut off periodically. But while he was filming Two Lane Blacktop and around that time i'd guess that he still got his cut. First off he and his brothers had more say in such matters at that time, than they did in '82 etc...  It would seem with the BB's balance of power and management tilting in a Wilson friendly direction that Dennis would be given his full share no matter just by being one of the three brothers. I'm guessing there were protests from certain members if this was the case, but that's just a guess. Another guess is that the sidemen filling in as primary drummer in those days received no pay increase. This just seems to be the BB's way in general...and money was tight in '70/ '71. However dennis was known to be generous with those guys...he probably bought them a pair of desert boots, or a mink hat, or even a big wide leather belt with turquoise inlays. I know he gave Kowalski a brand new set of drums once totally on the spur of the moment. So doing a solid for Dennis had its perks.
Logged
endofposts
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 837


View Profile
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2006, 03:48:10 PM »

However dennis was known to be generous with those guys...he probably bought them a pair of desert boots, or a mink hat, or even a big wide leather belt with turquoise inlays.

Thanks for bringing us that '70s nightmare fashion flashback, Jon!  Smiley
Logged
Aegir
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4679



View Profile
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2006, 08:21:45 PM »

However dennis was known to be generous with those guys...he probably bought them a pair of desert boots, or a mink hat, or even a big wide leather belt with turquoise inlays.

Thanks for bringing us that '70s nightmare fashion flashback, Jon!  Smiley
Hey! I'm insulted.. I wear desert boots.
Logged

Every time you spell Smile as SMiLE, an angel's wings are forcibly torn off its body.
Bill
Smiley Smile Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 6


View Profile
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2006, 02:10:35 AM »

I have a question for you about Al and his absence from the Summer Days cover. When the LP came out, I always thought that the flu bug reason offered for why he wasn't pictured seemed to ring a little false. Can you imagine, for example, the cover of Rubber Soul excluding George because he happened to be at the dentist that day? Anyhow, since photos from the cover shoot emerged in the 80s including Bruce on the boat with the Wilsons and Mike, I have always suspected that Al might have committed some violation of Murry's rules and was kicked out. Maybe he was demanding to be a full participating member, particularly in light of his new prominence as lead singer on the successful Help Me Ronda/Rhonda.  This would have decreased Murry's boys' and his nephew's shares.  As I recall from reports, Al didn't go from salaried employee to partner until the 70s, when things were a little more bleak, success-wise, for the group. Of course, it was around the time of the boat shoot that Bruce's voice first became apparent in the backgrounds of California Girls, and he was filling in on the road for Brian, so his possible replacement for Al in the lineup would make chronological sense. Was this a Murry powerplay- back down, Al, or you're history, smoothed over when Al did back down?
Thanks.
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2006, 03:21:49 AM »

You know he wasn't at the All Summer Long photo session either look close at all the group photos. His were taken at a different time. Why he wasn't included beats me? I don't know for sure but wasn't Murry fired  by the time both covers were shot? Would he have been able to bully Al at any point after that.
Logged
gfx
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 1.803 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!