The Smiley Smile Message Board

Ask Jon Stebbins questions here.  Can't guarantee he'll answer, but you never know!

SO - just to get everyone up to speed here...

What's this new book I hear you're working on, and when is it coming out??

AB

Hi Jon, Jason Penick here.  I met you at the Dennis Wilson bash at Chez Jay.  I was wondering what the status was regarding a remixed re-issue of Pacific Ocean Blue, and if a Dennis Wilson box set has been proposed or is in the works.  Everybody really wants to hear "Wouldn't It Be Nice/ To Live Again".  :police:

And i'm wondering all that, plus this: How's the Chez Jay book coming?

Hi Alan,
As you know I've spent the last year and a half writing something called "The Lost Beach Boy"...an authorized biography on the life of David Marks. The book is a VERY candid look at the journey Dave has taken through life. I would think any Beach Boy fan will enjoy the inside perspective one gets as eight-year old David moves in across the street from the Wilsons in 1956 and becomes their daily companion for most of the next decade. One gets a great sense of the Wilsons in the pre-BB's years through David's recollections. Brian was his hero, who taught him how to throw a football, Carl was his pal who discovered the guitar and rock and roll with him, and Dennis was the "Indian guide" who gave David an unending string of unforgettable experiences and taught Dave about life...for better or worse. This all happens before the word "Surfin'" is ever uttered.

And then there's the BB's years... the early sessions, the early hits, the first tours. The book gives a very detailed look at what went on inside the band in 1962 and 1963. We had access to Elmer Marks journals as Beach Boys tour manager, Jo Ann Marks records of gigs, locations dates, even attendance records and payment records for many gigs. We have some pretty amazing photos ad memorabilia of the Beach Boys during this period...the book should have over 100 photos, and in general will be very entertaining in a visual way. One thing that becomes obvious while looking through these old concert photos is that Dave sang a lot, and Al played bass a lot...two things we rarely hear about. There are plenty of revelations and new perspectives for BB's fans to argue about for years to come. And once Dave and Murry begin butting heads, and Dave's early tenure with the boys plays out...the story actually gets better. The years 1964 - 1973 are the book's most interesting in my opinion...that's when Dave's roller coaster ride really hits speed. And I'll warn anyone who "just wants the innocence"...don't read this book.

The years from the mid seventies to today are mostly a tale of addiction, recovery, survival, and re-connection. The various Beach Boys show up regularly throughout the story...and a new perspective is given on the '97 - '99 period as well. All in all, I'm very proud of it, and I think it will entertain anyone who reads it...unless Murry gets a copy...he might not like it so much.

The book is currently being edited, we're still a few weeks away from a "final" edit. Luckily, my editor, Emma McKay of Mudscout media is someone who was also involved in the production of my Dennis Wilson book, and our collaboration on the new one is a comfortable situation. The actual launch date has not been set, although I'd estimate we'll see the book's release around June of this year. Anyone can reserve a copy by emailing their contact info to... CSMproductions@aol.com

Jon, does the book address any possibility of David working with the Beach Boys again?

And is there any possibility of Dennis Wilson: The Real Beach Boy being in print again?

Yeah, I'd like to know that, too. I ordered the book twice or three times through amazon and they could never send one...

Hey Jason,
I wish I had an answer for this one. I'm completely out of that loop, if there is such a loop. It seems like even the guys who are in the loop, are wondering the same thing. You might direct this one to the Alan Boyd thread...he's put some effort into making things happen in the past. I just don't know what to say...WIBNTLA is a great, great song...I think we'll see it on something someday. Sheesh...that's pretty vague eh? Maybe this year we'll get some real asnwers on these things...I hope.

Hey Susan,
The Chez Jay's book has been on and off so many times...it's kind of like my Smile...I hope it ends as nicely. The short answer is... that project needs to be fully backed before I can spend more time and effort to complete it. Much of it is done...but it needs more support to reach a published state. We've been through three agents, two publishers who backed out, another publisher who sat on it for 10 months and backed out, and several proposals, and re-writes. At times I'm really postive about it, and at times I just want to bury it forever. Sometimes adversity can lead to great things...I know the book will be great when it finally surfaces...but who knows when that will be? Not me. When things like the Dennis book, and Dave's book go so smoothly, and are supported so well, it makes something like the Chez Jay's book all the more frustrating.   

There's a great possibility of that happening. I own all the rights to the book, print rights, ancillary rights...everything is 100% mine. This gives me the ability to revise, expand and re-publish the book on my own terms. I have a partner who I'm in the process of working towards this goal with. If everything falls into place...you might see a 350 page version of "The Real Beach Boy" with lots of new material. Nothing is solid yet...but if it does solidify I'll make an announcement here.

Good deal, as I thought your book was excellent!

One quick question; is any there any mention in the DM book about his contact with Brian during the Landy years? I know absolutely nothing about it, besides seeing a picture of them together in ghost-written "autobiography".

One quick question; is any there any mention in the DM book about his contact with Brian during the Landy years? I know absolutely nothing about it, besides seeing a picture of them together in ghost-written "autobiography".

Yes...that event is recounted in great detail. And I think it's one of the funniest parts of the book.

The David Marks book will provide some fresh new perspective. I'd also like to see an expanded version of the DW bio.

Dennis is the real enigma. His talent was maligned at first . . . and then he blossomed into one of the group's best writers . . . all while hurtling down a path of self destruction. Dennis is worthy of a major, in-depth psychological evaluation.

We know the mechanics of destruction . . . but what (as with any addict) were the underlying causes? Murry's a given . . . but the range of other factors would be very revealing. That, when tied to the music and relationships within the Beach Boys, would be a powerful study.

It seems Dennis just gave up . . . and if it hadn't been for the drowning . . . it probably would have been something else . . . and probably around the same time period.

I think the Manson thing weighed on him heavily, as it probably would for any of us in the same situation.

But I think you're right about Murry...I think Murry's death, especially, had a deeply proufound effect on both Dennis and Brian.  You see them both taking a drastic turn for the worse in the couple of years after that.  Their "binging" (Dennis: cigarettes, booze, dope, sex; Brian: cigarettes, booze, dope, food) grew to mamouth proportions and it clearly had a negative impact on their health.  Prior to Murry's passing, B & D still seemed like "Boys" if you will; after that, they seemed like damaged men.

C-Man

And, might I add, if it hadn't been for Landy's brutal approach to therapy, we likely would've lost Brian as well.  Sad but true.  Maybe another psych could've also done the trick, but the point is Brian could not have pulled himself out of it....he needed major help.  As Jon and others have pointed out though, the notion of someone doing "a Landy" on Dennis was not exactly practical, given his utterly rebellious nature.

C-Man

Thier common problem behavior seems to "addition", don't hear about them being physically/emotionally abusive to their loved ones so much [intentionally anyway].  Or is that wrong? Could they have actually been modeling another parent's behavior much more than the usual suspect's?

I found this statement from David Marks on Jon's upcoming book:

There’s a book to be written about your career and your role in the Beach Boys: Can you tell a bit more or is it a secret? Will there be “secrets” cleared or scandals opened?

I don’t know if they’ll be scandals, but there will be newly revealed information for sure and some of that information will disprove some things that have become assumed as fact.  I found a lot of papers and materials that my mom saved, letters from lawyers, tour journals stuff like that so there’s proof to what will be written.  Jon’s been very careful to only put in information that he has evidence to support him.  Otherwise, he makes it clear that it’s opinion or “believed” to be true.  There will also be some pictures of the early Beach Boys, which have never been seen before.  I’ll leave the details for the book, but it will be something every fan that wants to know the truth about the birth of the Beach Boys should read.

http://www.brianwilson-fans.com/content/view/156/1/

Please go there and read the entire interview, it's good stuff.

These are all good insights...C-Man, Mark, Cam...I'd say Murry was a huge factor in why the Wilson boys were/are so emotionally raw...or vulnerable. Who knows what his parenting techniques were at the most crucial stage...age two to four. So much of one's ability to process the world is set at that point. I imagine he did the best he could. Murry was full of heart, and it shows in all the boys...but he was extremely controlling, he could be cruel, and then overly apologetic...he spoiled them in many ways. The Dave Marks book deals with the subject of Murry quite a bit...from the late '50's until the mid '60's. I feel I got a clearer picture of Murry , both good ands bad, from talking to people who really knew him like David, Jo Ann Marks, Dave's cousin Toni, Fred Vail, Eddy Medora and others. One thing is for sure...Murry left a lasting impression on all of them. The descriptions run from "horrible" to "brilliant". But in Dave's story you get a clear sense of both the power and weaknesses of Murry Wilson.

Karen Lamm once told me that Dennis' biggest problem was the fact he never felt "accepted" by Murry. I think Brian is still seeking Murry's approval on some level too.

By "addition" I of course meant "addiction"; damn fingers.  And by that I mean I wonder if Audrey doesn't get a pass for her role, maybe more influential role, in the Wilson son's upbringing. If stories of her alcohol addiction are true, that is.  Murry's behavior is very memorable and upfront from stories told while Audrey's may have been more stealthy [undercover of happy drunk] but inflicting more behavioral damage to the sons.  Anyway the sons seem to be more addictive than abusive but then there is the complications of how much is learned and how much is disease too.  Aw, forget it.

There's also the conscious effort to NOT be what their dad was. I could see that being a factor.

True.

There were two parents involved and we hear/speculate alot about one but not so much the other;  I'm thinking the influence of the other is largely unexplored territory.

Well here's some 20/20 hindsight through rose colored glasses...
Actually Audree's influence was prevelant and noted while researching the Dave Marks book. It seems all of the kids and parents in the neighborhood loved Audree, and many felt sorry for her. She seems to have genuinely been a loving and consistent parent. She's the one who taught the kids how to play the piano, and how to get a rock and roll or boogie woogie groove on it. She really nurtured their musical growth and didn't "push" them. She was always very forgiving of their folbles according to many sources.

Jo Ann Marks, who is in her late seventies now... told me the difference between Audree and Murry was like night and day...one, Audree being one of the kindest people she's ever known, while the other, Murry, was probably among the worst human beings she's ever known. I've heard others describe the couple in nearly the same terms. It's hard to find a bad word about Audree from anyone who knew her...with Murry it's not so hard. Perhaps the one thing people point to as a fault of Audree's is that she was so passive when it came to Murry's behavior. And if he was abusive, her tendency to be passive towards that would certainly be a contributing factor in the abuse. I have heard she drank, but have never heard that her consumption was anything out of the ordinary for a 50's/60's housewife, especially one with a husband like Murry. So the bottom line, Audree was a positive influence, a nurturing influence, a significant musical influence, a good and consistent friend to those outside the Wilson family. However, she seems to have let Murry have his way, and set the agenda.

Jon, I recall seeing Brian on one of the videos out there, demonstrating a boogie woogie piano riff and giving Murry credit for teaching him..........

not to nitpick your reporting...just appears to be another case of different people having different recollections of BB history

...........and I still peruse your Dennis book occasionally....it resides on my living room bookshelf next to Kingsley Abbot, and Paul Williams  :)

Hey Donald - Audree was definitely the boogie-woogie teacher in that house from what I hear.. Dennis has said that in past interviews, Carl too...Dave Marks as well. Murry spent most of his time on the Hammond. And you're right, Brian will say anything at any moment...sometimes it cuts right to the truth...sometimes it short circuits the truth. Don't know why he does that...but the DW/POB reference in the "Brian as a fan" thread is a perfect example. Or, perhaps Murry taught it to Brian and Audree taught it to the rest of the guys...seems unlikely though. Glad you still find the book useful...though it badly needs an update.

I vaguely recall an interview with Brian where he said that his dad taught him boogie woogie piano (which he has always claimed), but not very well.  That Brian learned to play it better than his dad did.  Maybe because Audree taught Brian after Murry's first attempts at teaching him?

I just (finally) got around to reading the Peter Ames Carlin thread on this board, and it seems that after researching his book, and especially after speaking with Barbara, Peter is in agreement that the death of Murry was THE point of biggest impact on the downward spiral of both Dennis and Brian.  They may have both been traveling  in that general direction beforehand (especially Brian), but they both took a shortcut and jumped several miles ahead on that road after Murry passed.

C-Man

In fact, the more I think about it, I would go so far as to say that Brian and Dennis both, subconsciously and unknowingly, tried to BECOME Murry, to a certain extent, after his death.
They didn't adopt his abusiveness/cruelty, in fact Brian definitely tried to avoid the chance of that by avoiding his kids to a large degree...but I definitely see Murry's mannerisms picked by by B & D.
You remember how Brian characterized Murry in that 1976 NBC TV special?  He said something like Murry scared a lot of his friends 'cause his personality was a little too "HI, HOW ARE YA"...real brusque.  Interesting that Brian had adopted that quality, maybe to a slightly lesser degree, but still noticeably, by that time.  After Murry's death, Brian and also Dennis, it seems, tried to become as "macho" as they possibly could.  Dennis pulled it off better, 'cause he was pretty macho to begin with, but you'll notice Brian's and Dennis' voices, both their speaking and their singing voices, becoming much coarser after 1973.   I truly believe they were unwittingly trying to "channel" Murry, as if by adopting some of his mannerisms they could somehow keep him alive...

C-Man

There is a Brian quote (in Gaines' book p.229) where Brian says
"You know, since my father died, it's been a lot different. You know, I feel a lot more ambitious. It really does something to you when your father passes away. Takes a while to get over it, too. I got a new perspective on life. I'm gonna try a little harder now....It's makin' a man outta me".

Jon:  There is a thread about Al Jardine's recent concert, and in that thread, I digressed into talking about the Beach Boys equipment, spurred on by the announcement that Fender is working on a Jardine Signature Stratocaster.

Feel free to read the thread, but I was wondering that if in your discussions with Dave Marks, if he ever brought up anything like a special deal with Fender, or if Fender ever just set them up with free stuff for the promotion, or at a discount or something.  I'm trying to set up some kind of Beach Boys gear database, and this kind of info would be neat. 

aeijtzsche- Check the thread titles Beach Boys and Fender guitars.

Hey Jon looking forward to the Marks book. I wanted to know who wrote What's Wrong with Dennis and Gregg. If you don't know who he was personally, perhaps you know his first name?

That's a good question...and one I can't recall the answer to. There's a faint bell ringing (in the back of my mind) that someone...maybe on the Blue Bamboo Room board a few years back came up with that answer...and a story about the guy. I might be confusing that with the stories that have surfaced about Dennis' "Thoughts Of You" collaborator Jim Dutch...or his "Its About Time" collaborator Bob Burchman. For Mr. Horn's...and all of our sake I hope someone releases the wonderful alternate mix of "What's Wrong" that exists. You won't believe how great that song can sound. The mix is either a DW mix or an Earle Mankey mix, and its night and day from the released Moffit version. Next time I talk to Gregg Jakobson I'll ask him about M. Horn...maybe he'll remember something.

Thanks Jon. Your help is always welcome.

Jon, I wanted to post this in the Carrie Marks-thread, but I think it fits better here; I really wasn't that interested on your book about David when it was announced, but after reading your comments, I really can't wait to read it ! I hope to get a copy of your Dennis-Book as well, maybe in the new edition, as you mentioned. 

BTW  You don't know about a possible german release, do you?

On both books we hope to have good worldwide distribution...Dave's book should be readily available throughout Europe...but as of now only in English. How do you say Surf's Up in German?

Oh, you don't want to know. That would sound real awful in german... :)

vague en haut

Mike Love mange des vers

Jon --

     I have a question that has long intrigued me, and I thought you might be the best candidate to know the answer.  My question is how each of the Beach Boys specifically resolved their status under the military draft.

     I believe that Carl formally asserted conscientious objector status, was arrested at one time for not appearing before his draft board (or something similar), and then eventually negotiated some kind of a settlement with the government in which he got CO status and had to do community service.  I don't know if this is correct, however.

     I have always assumed, without ever seeing any documentation, that Brian was 4-F because of his ear, although it would be ironic to have hearing good enough to be one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time but not good enough to serve in the military!

     I have no idea what happened with Denny.  I'm not aware of any physical or medical condition that would have exempted him.

     Mike, I'm guessing, was exempted because he was married with a child by age 20 and the draft at that time (around 1961) was not calling up as many conscripts because Vietnam hadn't heated up yet.

     I don't know about Al . . . .

     Anyway, if you can shed any light on this issue I would greatly appreciate it.  It is a subject that has always interested me, but is not really discussed in any BB bios I've read.  I deeply admire Carl's principled stand on the issue.  The 60s were a tough time to be a young man in many respects.

The story I always heard about Dennis is that he tried having a friend pee in his jar and he got caught, they questioned his mental stability as a result. But this is anecdotal.

Dave Marks was drafted in '67 and was all but sure that he was going to Vietnam, but when he got his military physical a serious ulcer was found in his stomach lining.

Carl was drafted around the same time and of course was a well publicized conscientious objector.

Brian had nearly 100% hearing loss in one ear, he was in the clear.

Mike had at least two children by the mid-sixties, maybe more.

Al, I'm not sure, however since Mike, Brian and Al were all in their late twenties by the late sixites they weren't as much at risk as David, Carl and Dennis...who were all prime age at the peak of the Vietnam draft.

Bruce...no clue...he came from a wealthy family...a fortunate son....maybe that helped.

As I understand it, from back in the day, Bruce fell into the "sole surviving son" category. His mother was widowed and he was her only son (two older daughters).

IIRC, Al was exempt because he was married at the time when he was most vulnerable to the draft. One thing we need to remember is that draft exemptions kept changing, which is why Carl, also a married man, wasn't exempt when his time rolled around.

Thanks, Jon.  Interesting information. 

It seems that if Dennis was caught getting a friend to pee in his jar he would not be exempted from service on that ground, because it would be a pretty easy way for anyone else to get out of the draft too.

Dennis was born on December 4, 1944, so he would have come up for the draft in 1963 or 1964.  Maybe at that time the draft boards were more likely to be lenient with a member of a famous rock group.  When Carl (and David) came along a couple of years later, Vietnam was heating up, demand for manpower was much greater, and evidently the draft boards were becoming much stricter, even with celebrities such as Carl (or Muhammad Ali).

As you point out, Brian, Mike, and Al, all being a couple years older than Dennis, would have been even safer.  I guess the idea with Brian is that he might not have been able to hear an order yelled at him from his deaf side, which could be a problem . . .

Double post.  8o

This is real late, but...

I heard the 'pee-in-the-jar' story too. Also heard that he stormed into the doctor's office, thumped the desk, told the medic that he was gay and that if they drafted him, they'd (quote) "be the sorriest mo'fos on earth" (unquote). Another reason I recall reading was because he had flat feet... and of course he was married to Carole by then, thus technically had a child.

Bruce was exempt because he had a dependant widowed mother. Now, given that his (adoptive) father was a VP of the Rexall Drug Co., that sounds kinda fishy.... but that was the official reason. My source is impeccable. (no, not him)

Alan... I have no idea. Too short, maybe ?

the draft was only really crazy from '64 to about '70. 
Mike was older'n that so was Al and Brian. Though as has been pointed out Brian's hearing would have made him 4F, and Mike did have kids.
Dennis was even old enough to have "gotten lucky".  Carl is a year older than me, and was "ripe" for drafting.  Our few years in there was a cannon foder festival. 
There was nothing "democratic" about the conscription.  The draft boards were made up of citizens of your town where you registered for the draft.  If Dennis registered in Hawthorne and a couple of people on the draft board "felt" it wasn't "appropriate" to draft Dennis, he could have been passed over for all kinds of bogus or legit reasons.
The local draft boards were given quotas to meet. If it could be done without bothering "a favorite son" they did.  At least early in the "conflict".
As the quotas became larger and more needful, fewer people "caught a break" and that's when middle class white boys started to "resist".
The David Harris founded "Resistance Movement gained momentum and so finally a lottery system was instituted.  When even that failed to stop the Selective Services flow of dollars in litigation, Conscription was finally abandoned.
Sympathy for a "Draft" ended in the hearts of the middle class when so many middle class white neighborhood boys came home in body bags.
Every night on TV both at Dinner and 11pm a large portion of both local and national news showed the fighting, the dying and arrival home in body bags along with stark footage of Napalm attacks on the "living jungles" of S.E. Asia.
Bobby Darin wrote a song that featured the line: ".... I tried to watch TV, but they were showing the same war they had on last Tuesday...." 

Body counts, don't forget the body counts. They would show the daily "kill" totals on the newscasts; total VC killed that day and total US soldiers killed that day. I swear to god. It was like they were showing baseball scores or something.  It was totally unreal!!!

ahem!  You mean it was totally real.
I did fail to mention that reality didn't I?
What goes on now as to the reporting vis a vis "the occupation" is unreal.
There is nothing civilized in combat!
When "friends" of mine returned from Viet Nam they were wearing the ears of Viet Namese people on chains around their necks.
When John Kerry said that soldiers in Viet Nam were "war criminals" he was berated.
The "rules of war" outlined by the Geneva Convention prohibits, among other things, "the taking of body parts as trophies", i.e., "scalping" your enemy.
One pal, a former machine gunner on a River Boat on the Delta (fast boat) still calls at 3 am when he has bad dreams about killing babies, because you in his job a Viet Cong woman holding a baby out for you to take....well you just couldn't be sure they weren't bombs.  I mean real babies wired as bombs.
There is nothing civilized about combat.
I have been told by former athletes of mine that served in Iraq I, that they too came home with Iragi ears around their necks, though I've never seen it, I believe these kids.

The mind can only hold one clear idea or vision at a time.
One cannot fight a war and envision peace at the exact same time.  It just can't be done.  By an individual or a society. 
When will we ever learn?

Bob, I'm honored you are telling it like it is on my thread. What the press reflects now is completely unreal. Americans need a huge dose of reality...and the mainstream corporate controlled press has shown no guts to serve that need.

thanks Jon! you honor me sir!
I am chomping at the bit for you new book to appear!  best always,
               Bob

Jon, I'm a big Dennis fan and really enjoyed your book. It holds a place of pride on my BB bookshelf. One kinda odd question: Is it difficult to write about somebody like Dennis who had the world at his feet and then it all imploded? Is it difficult to find the balance in celebrating his art while acknowledging the mistakes of his life? I might find it hard to live with that kind of subject as intimately as you did/perhaps still do. As sad as Brian and Carl's stories are, everytime I look at that last picture of Dennis on the boardwalk/beach (?) in your book and he's so bloated and lost and gone, it kills me.

On another point, what were Dennis' exact contributions to "It's About Time." That is one of my favorite, underappreciated BB songs and Dennis compositions, and I've never known what exact parts of it he wrote. (Forgive me if it's in your book, and I've forgotten, or if it's somewhere on this site I'm unaware of.) In Carlin's fine new book, he mentions all the songs on"Sunflower" except for "It's About Time."

Thanks for the kind words about the book. Balance was definitely the key in writing about Dennis. Since his personality was so extreme in opposite directions it would be easy to lose balance in describing him. Some people are so shocked or distracted by his dark side that they write off the good. On the other hand some writers have ignored the dark side because they don't want to go there...its a scary place. they just want the innocence and so forth. I tried very hard to reflect what a complex character Dennis was and give the reader a taste of what his loved ones had to deal with. He was a guy who had tremendous depth and a great heart, he was also hugely self-destructive and entirely unpredictable in his behavior. And yes that was very difficult. Mainly because when exploring the darkest parts of his life you got a sense of the hopelessness that dogged him. Until 1969 or so Dennis had a real bulletproof quality, and even after that it was there although not as firmly. The Manson thing shell-shocked him for sure. But his lack of self-worth was in place long before that. His endless feeling of "lack of acceptance" from his dad, and at times his brothers and his band...it never let up. His strongest periods were '70 - 71 with Barbara...and then '74 -77 with the Harmony, Karen(a double edged girl for sure) and Brother Studio. Without Brother and the Harmony he was without a home...anchorless. He clung to the BB's like a life raft.

Dennis wrote nearly all the music for Its About Time. He had a demo of most of the track long before there were lyrics for it. The lyricist Bob Burchman wrote a ton of words but didn't come up with the Its About Time part, that was most likely Dennis and Al who developed that part together. Carl helped Dennis with some of the changes as well. Its About Time was an important song for the BB's because it became their signature concert closer for during the '70 - '71 period when they were just gaining credibility with a new audience.

Jon, thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. I'll be interested in reading your David Marks book.

By the way, just watched that YouTube live footage of IT'S ABOUT TIME. Mind: totally blown.

Jon do you think 74-77 was a good personally or just artistically? As far as music I agree that it was a huge peak  comparable to 68-72. However personally I think it's when he began his slide. 74 was when he lost his real voice through a fight. It didn't help that he was getting into cocaine heavier. Now late 74 and he meets Karen he cleaned up a little and got into sailing erx. but if you notice he already looks a little more frayed at the edges by the end of 75 and had a incident with ludes on stage (not the time he mentioned them in 79).  I would have to say 76 was an overall good year but as the months passed he looked older and older. 77 and his drug use is soaring, he was still fairly togehter, but really on a bad road. 1978 was the real decline but I think the stresses of the last few years and Karen herself going down hill must of been a cause. I mean people mention the hand incident in 71 as the first sign of trouble, but with him building his friendship with Murry and still having Barbara in his life I have to say he still had a chance at that point. You know the people who knew Dennis a lot better then me but do you think I am far off base?

   I read alot about Dennis's rough voice being the result of a fight ,but Brian's voice went rough about the same time and I don't think anyone hit or stepped on his throat. I just figured it was from drugs,alcohol and cigarettes. It seems like the other Beach Boys would have reacted in some way, because Dennis's voice was some of their lively hood. If this true were there  any punishments for these bozos? 

I think Murry's death had a profound impact on both Brian & Dennis.  Neither could bring himself to attend the funeral, and in the year folowing his death they both began to reach new heights of "over indulgence" in:  cigarettes, booze, drugs, and sex (Dennis), and cigarettes, booze, drugs, and food (Brian).  I believe they both tried to allow Murry to live on through them by adopting a courser appearance and mannerism, trying to be "men" for the first time in their lives, as opposed to "boys".  We see this in Brian's deliberate near-abandonment of his wonderful falsetto voice in favor of lower-register singing, and Dennis acting more "macho" than ever before. 

Craig

BTW, Carl reportedly used cigarettes to deliberately "roughen up" his voice, as well, to give it the rock/r'n'b edge he desired.  I'm not saying that's the only reason any of the Wilson Bros. smoked, but I think they liked what it did to their voices.  They wanted the tougher, more "manly" image and sound at that point in their careers and lives. 

Craig

Al told me a couple months back he thinks Brian wrecked his voice on purpose because he wanted to sound more "macho"...he never got over the sounding like a girl thing. As with most things Beach Boy there's probably a thread of truth in that, as well as enough counter anecdotes to dispute it. But Al was very sincere about this, he thinks of the loss of Brian's voice as the number one tragedy for the group .

MBE...you said it yourself...for Dennis '78 was the beginning of the real decline. Compared to '78 Dennis in '74 was a mormon boy scout on a health mission. He actually was pretty clean in '74 compared to the previous couple of years. If you look at photos of him from '74 - '75 he's in absolute perfect physical shape, he looks like a freakin' acrobat...the cut muscles had mostly disappeared by '80. Having Karen in his life was a motivation on some level. She was his Murry for a few years. Like Murry she was very agressive, and pushed him to work for success...but like Murry she cut both ways. The positive side was that he was very productive in '75 - '77 after a couple of years of limited productivity in '72 - '73 due to non-stop Golden Cadillacs down the hatch. Having Brother was the biggest thing. Dennis utilized it more than any of the BB's, and he certainly got the most out of it...Alan Boyd will testify that Dennis was the one who found the best sounds it could give. Earle Mankey told me Dennis clearly out worked everybody during this period. Mike never wanted to rehearse or spend time in the studio, In '75 Brian would show up, everybody would get all excited... then he'd work for 30 minutes and split. Carl was around but never driven to produce piles of tracks and experiment like Dennis. I think Carl's best period was '71 - '73. Anyway, Dennis was a pretty healthy guy during the Brother period, yes he partied his ass off and screwed around with everybody's wives and girlfriends, but he'd been doing that since he was 15. By '77 some more serious issues had kicked in like heroin(courtesy of Karen), alcoholism(courtesy of endless demons), and he'd soon be buried under a Fleetwood Mac sized pile of cocaine and drowning in Meyers Rum. I think he basically gave up once the BB's made him choose between being in the Beach Boys and being a solo artist...it happened in late '77...and believe me they DID make him choose. They could not cope with the fact that he was potentially a succesful solo artist, and he couldn't cope with the responsibility of being on his own. It's basically the same thing they did to Brian, just on a smaller scale, or a more expedited scale.

Wasn't Dennis recording another solo album after '77?  Were Mike's and Carl's solo careers similarly halted?

Dennis' solo recording was sporadic at best after Brother was sold in late '77. Carl's solo career was tolerated, and he was even allowed to tour and then come back to the BB's. Dennis was told he could not do both in Nov. '77.

The main difference between Mike and Carl's solo careers, and Dennis' is that Dennis' sales numbers actually competed with BB's sales, and according to Al he even outsold them for a time. Mike and Carl never presented that problem.

I dunno about the smoking part -- Carl started smoking in his early teens, so he was probably hooked well before the BBs started. It is clear that he was trying to get that rougher singing edge in how he tried to stretch his voice stylistically, but he didn't necessarily need to "use" anything for that purpose.

What I DO know is that, shortly after he quit smoking, Carl told my husband that he wished he'd taken better care of his voice over the years. A few years after he said that, Carl started taking lessons from a vocal coach.

Jon, didn't Carl fly solo principally because he was disgusted and frustrated at what they had become ? Solo album or no, I think he would have walked in any event. His comments on the Long Beach '81 gig said it all (this is a compound quote, but Carl did say this): "That was painful... some rehearsals would help".

Yes. Maybe he was stronger than Dennis in that way.

 

Did Al mention how they coped with Mike and Brian having a "solo" hit single with Almost Summer at that same time?

that whole "hit" fiasco" is a wonderful story from beginning to end.
It is however, a contractual thing rather than a "I have a need to express myself musically" thing, like the individuals "solo" career attempts.
The BBs were under contract to 2 (count 'em) record labels at the same time and the opportunity to do the theme song for this movie was offered to Brian.  Over the lunch meeting of the offer Brian wrote out the chord progressions and some lyrics on a napkin.  The "playa's" were so impressed they insisted that it had to be used.  Mike found a way, to his credit, and the rest is rock n roll.
I don't really think anyone had to "deal" with much of anything over that one.
And btw for the record, Brian's version is way mo better'n Endless Summer Beach Band or Celebration or whatever they called themselves for 29.4 minutes.

Mike's solo record invovled the other Beach Boys. I know Al was initally in Celebration, and as well as going on t.v. with Mike to promote Brian wrote Almost Summer. Carl also did a gig with Celebration. The point is is that it was a more group oriented project and really posed no artistic threat to anyone. Dennis was simply doing something different enough and seperate enough to be a threat. It was envy, and as Al said later Deniis was doing better work then the Beach Boys were at the time.  Dennis should have left and gone solo perhaps he would have straightened out.

the original title of the movie was "High School" until the producers heard Brian's song, Almost Summer. 
Eddie Carter, Charles Lloyd (I always hated it when Mike would say "we call him the chief, cause he has his war paint on").the guys out of King Harvest too I believe.  They were all in the BBs touring band.  It was something to do until WB finally accepted the "last" BB album, and they could get on with the new high signing bonus Caribou/Columbia deal. Obviously Mike likes to work and stay busy (that was actually one of the explainations of the day about why Celebration rather than the BBs and why Carl wasn't more involved).  Carl didn't have any desire to do much of anything, given everything else going on in his life at the time.  Al participated to the degree he chose, and was able given the issues in his life.  Brian once again was needed to write and "sell" the music. (by this I mean to the record company hacks that make those oh so important decisions.)  Their appearance on some Dick Clark show was a trip.  I wonder if I still have video of that?  They did the "b" side. Recording 25 or more seperate versions for major cities, naming "hot spots" and local scenery of these places  around the nation was wonderful/brilliant promotion for the record and the movie.   Anyone?
Like I said earlier, nothing really, to "deal with".  b

Thanks for the clarification.

On my VHS copy they do both sides of the single but its a version so many sources away from the original that its in black and white!

Hey Jon -- Can you shed any light on whether Dennis was docked payment in '70/'71 for his various missed shows, due to injury or filming? Obviously, when forced out of the band during the various stretches in the early '80s he indeed WAS docked; but I was wondering if during the early '70s no shows, he still was able to take his cut of each gig, ala Brian.

Also, is there any evidence that the substitute drummers throughout the years (Figueroa, Dennis Dragon, Kowalski, etc...), were paid additionally for drumming on these Dennis-less concerts?

That question is coming from a very informed perspective Howie. I've never even pondered this myself until now. you're right about the later days...he certainly was docked or cut off periodically. But while he was filming Two Lane Blacktop and around that time i'd guess that he still got his cut. First off he and his brothers had more say in such matters at that time, than they did in '82 etc...  It would seem with the BB's balance of power and management tilting in a Wilson friendly direction that Dennis would be given his full share no matter just by being one of the three brothers. I'm guessing there were protests from certain members if this was the case, but that's just a guess. Another guess is that the sidemen filling in as primary drummer in those days received no pay increase. This just seems to be the BB's way in general...and money was tight in '70/ '71. However dennis was known to be generous with those guys...he probably bought them a pair of desert boots, or a mink hat, or even a big wide leather belt with turquoise inlays. I know he gave Kowalski a brand new set of drums once totally on the spur of the moment. So doing a solid for Dennis had its perks.

Thanks for bringing us that '70s nightmare fashion flashback, Jon!  :)

Hey! I'm insulted.. I wear desert boots.

I have a question for you about Al and his absence from the Summer Days cover. When the LP came out, I always thought that the flu bug reason offered for why he wasn't pictured seemed to ring a little false. Can you imagine, for example, the cover of Rubber Soul excluding George because he happened to be at the dentist that day? Anyhow, since photos from the cover shoot emerged in the 80s including Bruce on the boat with the Wilsons and Mike, I have always suspected that Al might have committed some violation of Murry's rules and was kicked out. Maybe he was demanding to be a full participating member, particularly in light of his new prominence as lead singer on the successful Help Me Ronda/Rhonda.  This would have decreased Murry's boys' and his nephew's shares.  As I recall from reports, Al didn't go from salaried employee to partner until the 70s, when things were a little more bleak, success-wise, for the group. Of course, it was around the time of the boat shoot that Bruce's voice first became apparent in the backgrounds of California Girls, and he was filling in on the road for Brian, so his possible replacement for Al in the lineup would make chronological sense. Was this a Murry powerplay- back down, Al, or you're history, smoothed over when Al did back down?
Thanks.

You know he wasn't at the All Summer Long photo session either look close at all the group photos. His were taken at a different time. Why he wasn't included beats me? I don't know for sure but wasn't Murry fired  by the time both covers were shot? Would he have been able to bully Al at any point after that.

I don't think Murry had anything to do with it, because, as MBE said, he was already fired by that time.  I believe he was just sick that day. To the public it didn't matter, they just wanted to see Dennis on the picture I guess...
BTW I think Al became "partner" earlier than the 70s.

From the bootlegged session tapes for the Rhonda single, it sure seems that Murry was still around, at the time of  Summer Days,  making his influence felt in his special way. Murry may have been "fired," according to the Official Story, but his business practices would appear to have remained. It's not like such heavy-handed treatment of the unrelated members of the group had no precedent.  Ask David Marks.
I just don't buy the "Al was sick for the session" explanation. Doesn't ring true.

First off Al definitely wasn't at the cover shoot for All Summer Long either...as MBE stated. His photos are added later...notice he isn't in any photos with the other guys on that cover. I've seen the outtakes of the All Summer Long shoot and Al is obviously missing. The ASL shoot is a year before the Summer Days shoot, so is the AL/Murry conspiracy in action at that time? I doubt it. Murry was already gone in spring of '64 as people have stated. The Rhonda session was a one off thing...he was just invited down for that session and everyone knew it was a mistake. Its not like he was hanging around the studio or influencing the photo shoots all the time. Rhonda may have been the first session he attended since the I Get Around session when he was fired. And I doubt he was welcome back after that for many years.

Al was NOT made a full-member of the Beach Boys until the '70's according to Al himself. Before that he was a paid sideman...at a reduced royalty share plus salary per gig. All of these details are examined closely in the upcoming Dave Marks book. Some people's minds will fry when they actually see the breakdown of the contractual details. Al and David were both taken advantage of in a major way...and to varying degrees. Al recovered his fortune...David did not.

As far as the BB's LP cover photos and Al's not being in them. I truly think he just missed them...perhaps he didn't hang with the other guys as much. And he just wasn't a major priority in a promotional sense back then. If you look at the ads Capitol ran in teen mags in '64 they still used photos with David in them. Al was the least known member of the group by far. Now we think of him as such an institution because we've had decades to process him into the BB's story. But in the context of 1965 he was still thought of as the "replacement" guy...the new guy who took over for David Marks.

This IS NOT a knock against Daivid Marks. I wouldn't know him if he rang my doorbell. But the fact that Alan replaced him is very important. God Bless Alan Jardine.

Well, he replaced Al and later Al replaced him.

BTW Jon, thanks for the info that Al wasn't a full member until the 70s.

Thanks for you thoughts on this, Jon and others. At the risk of sounding like Oliver Stone, though, your disclosure that the non-family members  were just nominally paid sidemen confirms my suspicions.  The fact remains that Al WAS on the cover of ASL- but was not on that of Summer Days.  That Bruce happened to be on the boat that day and was photographed with the others in virtually the same shot  that was on the cover (but without him) leads me to believe that he was placed in the wings just in case Al didn't recover from his "flu."  I'll bet that, in those days, Bruce was thrilled just to be added to the group and was less demanding financially than a founder like Al would have been, particularly with the vocal of a just-out BB top ten single under Al's belt.  Didn't the Mamas and Papas pull the same thing on Michelle, changing an album cover to replace her face with that of her successor and telling her that they would release it to put her in her place?  Nice folks all around.

Jon, Murry was there (invited or otherwise...probably otherwise...) to "help" produce the vocal sessions for some "Beach Boys Today!" cuts ("Do You Wanna Dance", "Please Let Me Wonder", and "In The Back Of My Mind").  I guess he was easier to get rid of as a manager than as a "producer".  As Pete Fornatale put it in to Dennis in '76, "How do you fire your dad"?.  As Dennis replied, about all they could do was say "Dad...see ya later!".  :)

Hope I didn't give you the impression David was a "nominally paid sideman". He was a fully contracted 20% share holder of the BB's franchise, equal to Brian, Dennis Carl and Mike...according to the Beach Boys, Capitol and L.A. superior court. What happened later, after he left, is what denied him his share of the BB's fortune. David got screwed on the way out, Al got screwed on the way back in. Al was never an equal part of the Capitol contract and was paid by the BB's as a salaried sideman only...until the '70's. He says this was his punishment for leaving the first time.

Thanks for that clarification, Jon. Looks like, once the money really started flowing, Murry and company had an agonizing reappraisal of who got to share the dough (particularly if his name wasn't Wilson or Love). So, David Marks (and his 20% share) were out, replaced by a returning and chastened Al, fresh from dental school and willing to take just a salary to get back in.  Voila: the three Wilsons and Love each get upped 5%! Even if Murry was out as manager, this familial philosophy seems to have survived. 
Interesting that, after Rhonda and Al's bout with the "flu," (other than the British Then She Kissed Me from Summer Days), he didn't sang lead on a BB single until 1970's Cottonfields, well after the hitmaking, money machine years had become but a fond memory. They weren't going to make that mistake again, I'll bet.  I still think that there's a very interesting story behind Al's absence from (and Bruce's near inclusion on) the Summer Days cover, and that it is more financial than intestinal!
Any chance someone could ask Al or Bruce what the real deal was?

Al was supposed to sing lead on Smile's "Vege-tables" afaik.



I don't think Bruce will say somethin' about it; I wouldn't if I may have been in a position to replace someone else. But he posts at the BBBritain-Board so maybe someone could ask him.

Hey Jon -- although its (somewhat) easy enough to figure out the songs that Dennis performed during his solo spots from say '71 through '73, I was wondering if you -- or anybody -- has a definitive list of group songs that hey played keyboards on. There are so many shots of him on keys -- the one where he's up front wearing that tuxedo from '73 comes to mind, as well as him playing (I think) a Moog in the gatefold of of the IN CONCERT LP. Any ideas?

I thought Bruce wasn't on the Summer Days album cover for the same reason he wasn't on the Pet Sounds, i.e. because Bruce and Terry Melcher had a deal with RCA for the Rip Chords etc he wasn't contractually allowed on any other artists' covers as that would be seen to be promoting a rivals cover. I'm sure Bruce has talked about this also.

In the same instance you could also say why wasn't Dean Torrence on the Party cover as he sang on Barbara Ann, but as he was with Jan & Dean, contracts etc....

As for the Al comments, I always thought it was flu and nothing else...? Seemed a stupid idea though to have member of the band missing from the cover of the Beach Boys latest release whatever happened...  :-\

Hey Howie...nice question again. I think some ambitious fan with an Ian Rusten type of appetite for detail might enjoy compiling such a list. If its in the studio I'm sure the list of songs DW playd keys on would be incredibly interesting. Seems he did a lot of that in the early to late seventies...especially on his own stuff. POB of course is all him...every damn keyboard on there I think.

In concert is a mixed bag. Two songs that stand out as routine Dennis keyboard songs are Heroes and Villains and Help Me Rhonda. He was playing key on Heroes live pretty much throughout the seventies...and Rhonda was almost his own keyboard showcase from the mid seventies until they made him stop. There's a few of those shows where Dennis was nearly swallowed alive by Carli Munoz' afro...but he still pulled of the Rhonda solo with no sight line and very little oxygen.

A classic example of Dennis on the piano in concert is Only With You circa '72. He also does a lot of that great boogie woogie stuff on things like What's Wrong, Got To Know The Woman, All I Want to Do etc...

Adrian Baker of all people told a great story in 2005 about how Dennis used to play the piano for him, and DW was usually drunk and at first Adrian listened politely but inside was thinking "the poor bugger he's really messed up"...but then he started listening to what was coming out of old Dennis...the beautiful chord changes and inversions, the unusual bass counters and the heartfelt passion in the songs. These were supposedly all originals that Dennis just was carrying around in his head in the couple of years before he died. Baker said they were stunning in their beauty, and he bet that few if any had been written down or recorded. And he said the songs were literally "pouring" out of Dennis. Enough to make you cry. 

Cool stuff, guys.  Where did Dennis pick up that boogie-woogie style - from Brian, or from somewhere else?

Hi Susan,
According to Dave Marks they all learned the boogie-woogie from Audree.

Thanks, Jon.  That was my guess.

And it must've been quite a scene, Audree teaching the boys to play boogie-woogie piano...!

Jon, are there pictures of the Beach Boys featuring Brian, Dave AND Al ? If so, ill there be one of these in the new book?

Yes, there are photos of the BB's in '63 with both Al and Dave. If anyone you know has the orig. sheet music for Surfer Girl there are several on there from Hawaii on the beach...this would be the only "official" use of BB's photos with that lineup. As you might imagine, photos of this lineup are very rare. We actually uncovered about a half dozen, most of them on stage with Al playing bass in place of Brian. Two of those will be in the book, one is a live shot, one is back stage. There are quite a few early BB's photos that will be published for the first time in the Lost Beach Boy book. One from early '63 with Mike, Brian, Dave, Jan and Dean that is just a knockout. Also a couple of great early shots of Carl and Dennis that have never been seen. There were over 150 photos to choose from that the publisher pared down to about 50 for the final product. They had to make some tough choices. We plan on releasing the rest of the photos that didn't make the book to the public at some point, in either a photo supplement book, or on our website. So you're all gonna see them either way.

Sounds great. Thanks Jon !

Jon I want to say that I know I will really get to value David Marks to much higher degree after reading your book. Even your comments here on it have gotten me to realise how important he was.

If anyone wants to see and hear Dennis banging out a great boogie woogie piano solo during Help Me Rhonda, it's on the Good Vibrations Tour DVD (the TV special originally called It's Ok I believe).

Jon--
I'm looking forward to your new book about David Marks! We've asked this before but now that you have another Beach Boy's book under your belt, any chance of a book about Carl? There's so much we don't know about him!

Hi Jane,
No serious plans about tackling Carl in book form...however, you'll notice some interesting new insights into Carl in David's book, he obviously plays a big part in Dave's life. There's also a photo of a very young Carl in there that has never been seen before.

If your book on Dennis is any indication I will be very pleased with David's . I know there are no plans for you to do Carl or the others, but you have a good perspecitve on things, and I agree with most of your opinions musically.

I always thought Bruce would make a good book subject. He's a dichotomy; does all that loungey, Barry Manilow style muzak but was friends with Keith Moon. And of course the reports of him with the fans. He's got plenty of good stories that need expanding upon - the murder on his first day in the business that occured in front of him, the pre-BB music scene, the London trip in '66 with the Beatles and the Who, the BBs trying to replace him [was we aware?], the clashes with Reilly...I'd be more likely to read the book than listen to the song "Endless Harmony"...;)

What was that about? Sorry Im confused...

Some dude charged in and stabbed the guy who was signing Bruce to a contract. I think that's how the story goes. But that illustrates my point how there's a book in there.

Man Id never heard that before. That must have been one truly horrible experience. Yeh I would love to see Jon or someone else with his passion and knowledge for the band write a book on both Bruce and Carl and maby even throw in a book on Mike and one on Al ;) :-D

I once saw a set of four books in a box, one book each about all four Beatles. Something similar about the Beach Boys would be great. I'm sure all volumes (except for maybe the one about Al) would be very interesting.

Yeh I was thinking along those lines too. That would indeed be very nice. I think a book on Al would be interesting though. I wouldnt mind hearing his opinions on the history of The Beach Boys. Its always nice to have a book written from everyones perspective of things.

Jon, has your new book been released in Australia at all? I live In Sydney and I searched the three major book stores in the city (ie: Dymocks, Borders & Angus & Robertson) and none of them seemed to have it, so Im assuming it hasnt been released out here yet (i could be wrong) but if thats the case then is it being released in Australia?

Distribution can be a tricky thing when it comes to timing. The only "official" releases scheduled were March 8th in the U.K. and May 29th in the U.S. However, I expect the book will find its way into nearly every other major country through the vast distribution channels Virgin has at its disposal. It may not be until after the U.S. release that you will physically see it in the stores in Australia Mikeyj. Amazon.co.uk is a good way to go if you want it sooner. Thanks for your interest!

Thanks Mr. Stebbins. I think I will just wait until it arrives in Australia as Im pretty short on cash at the moment. I look forward to reading the book when I get it though and if its anywhere near or even better than your Dennis book then I will defiantely enjoy it.

Just wanted to say I finished the David Marks book and find it excellent. I thought it was funny that Amazon US sent me an English copy with all the colour slang but it was great and I really do have a much better feel for Dave's talent. I am going to track down vinyl copies of the Moon and Marksmen stuff asap. Thanks for another fine work.

"Slang"?

Well perhaps I should say the English version of english. For instance Brian and Murry both had a thing for Dave's mum.

Hi, Glad you enjoyed the book MBE. I agree the UK edit is a bit weird for a California bloke like me-self who uses the word "dude" way too much. I have a feeling that when re-prints start happening the orig. (non UK) edit might surface, figured all the U.S. copies would have had this, but perhaps the first wave of sales in the U.S. are part of the first UK pressing...just a guess. No one tells me what's actually going on..such is the life of a tortured artist. On the upside, if you can get around the occasional British-ism in the wording, the edit they used in the book is VERY true to what David and I wanted. There were no major cuts or alterations to the text...they pretty much printed the exact manuscript we turned in...just fancied up the language in a few minor ways. The story and the facts are all there, and the tone is definitely the one I wrote.

Tell you the truth the English rewrite didn't impede my enjoyment of it in any way. If anything it was fun picking it out. It really makes the reader realize that the Beach Boys are real people with similar backgrounds to many of us.

Personally, old chap, I found the UK edition to be top hole, absolutely spiffing, what ?  8)

Just finished the book and found it fascinating - particularly the attempts by Mike to bring David back, first in the Surf's Up 70-71 era - apparently to replace Bruce - and then later in the 90's to replace Al!  It's a shame so little of David's guitar mastery and overall muscianship has not been committed to vinyl or CD - I'd love to hear more of the songs and tracks described by Jon in the book.  I think about how great it would have been to have David and Dennis collaborate on his solo projects, they were really kindred spirits, and Dennis would have benefitted tremedously from David's musical arranging and playing skills - maybe Poops and Bamboo would have been released!  But then I realize such a partnership would not have been good for David healthwise.

Keep any eye on David's own website (www.davidleemarks.com) as he has 2 CD's in the pipeline - firstly a definitive collection of Marksmen material, and secondly a collection of 'the missing years' sessions. Sadly, they've been held back from their initial release date but I understand that they are still 'forthcoming' ...  ;D

I almost died laughing when I read the bit about Mike bugging Dave about writing home to his parents. Then to see what he finally wrote and showed it to Mike. Hillarious!!

I was so pleased that David agreed to let me put that in the book. I really wanted that in because it so beautifully illustrates the absurdity of what was happening in Dave's life as a 14 year old.

Jon -

Really enjoying the book so far.  I was late to pick it up but finally got it for my birthday.  It is so much fun to go back into Beach Boys World and get to know the Wilsons, and Dave and Mike better by getting this new perspective on their childhoods.

One thing I wanted to bring up was: there is a passage where you're talking about Al, and you mention the "myth that Al goes off to college in some eastern location."

Well, as far as I know, AGD and Brad Elliott contacted Ferris State University in western Michigan a few years ago and confirmed that an Alan C Jardine was a student there for a couple of semesters, as well as confirming that Al's Dad was on the faculty there.

However, all of this happened way before the myth states, in early 61 or something.

So, there is some truth to that myth, it's just timed differently.

I've thought about going over to Ferris State, which is not far from my parent's house in Grand Rapids, to see if I could dig up anything.

Glad you are enjoying the book. I did find a couple of instances in the press from '64 and '65 where the BB's clearly say that Al left the group to go "back east to dental school," but now he's back for good. I might have been more specific in my description of the chronology of this myth, as you said there is an earlier instance of Al going east for education prior to the Beach Boys being an entity. That is very true. But what fascinates me and what I wanted to underline, is that for almost four decades we BB's fans were under the impression that Al left the BB's and went off to dental school in the east before coming back to the band the next year. AGD was the first person i know that discovered this premise had a basic flaw, Al was in L.A. in '62 and '63, with a job and enrolled in a local school. It seems very odd to me that no one from the BB's camp or none of the first wave of BB's journalists questioned why we were given this folk tale about dental school, and i really think the Labor Day weekend story is a similar creation. It's true to an extent because it happened...as did Al going dental... but it also fuzzies up the true chronology of the Beach Boys genesis, making it more palatable and less Dave Marks friendly. I don't think the constant use of these two stories happened by coincidence or by chance, i think it was a planned pr strategy from the inside that began in early 1964. That is when Al Jardine becomes the founder, original, dare I say "real" Beach Boy and David becomes the "fill-in". Before that Al didn't exist in the press reports about the band as they gained their initial fame across the U.S.

Jon, I heard Dennis Kelly's interview with you and David on luxuriamusic.com on Friday. It was very interesting. I have a copy of your new book, and I look forward to reading it.

There's one thing I'm not clear on; during the interview I think you said that you were either updating or editing the Dennis Wilson book. I assume that it's with an eye to a reissue. I've seen the question asked about that here, but not answered. Will your book on Dennis be reissued, and if so, when.

Hi, glad you heard the Luxuria interview, it was fun. Yes, there is a planned revised and expanded edition of the DW book in the works. I do not know when the release date will be yet. Thanks.

I look forward to that reissue, Jon!

Jon, I just finished The Lost Beach Boy, and I want to let you know how much I enjoyed it. David's story is fascinating, and so was your telling of it. What a life the guy has had. There's a lesson there about how it doesn't matter how long you wander in the wilderness as long as you finally find the peace that you've been seeking.

One thing that shines through brilliantly is that despite all the trials and tribulations, David is a great guy, with a big heart. That's another thing that he had in common with his old friend Dennis. Sadly, Dennis never found his way out of the wilderness.

Well, thanks a bunch for the nice words. I'm glad you enjoyed the story. You definitely got it right when you mentioned the similarity between David and Dennis. There's a couple of things that Dave often says. 1) Dennis was his tour guide to the world from age 7 to 15, probably his most crucial years of development. All David wanted was... to be just like DW, and he did or tried to do everything Dennis did. 2) He would have kept doing what DW did if they'd stayed together. And although during his post Hawthorne life David did nearly everything he could to court disaster and be as bad a boy as he could, he didn't quite have the access or money that Dennis did. Denny's access to temptation was even greater than Dave's. That small degree of difference might be the only thing that kept David alive.

And you're right. Despite all the dark stuff, David is a really good soul, a good heart, and an insightful guy. He must have been born with some brain cells to spare because there's no doubt he burned up a bunch of them...but you wouldn't know it to talk to him today. He's very articulate and intelligent. Sobriety has been fantastic for him.

I would just like to add into the mix, that i loved the new book, a great read.

Thanks a lot John.

I just wanted to say that I loved your David Marks book, too.  Absolutely great job.  It made me see him in a whole different light.  (And the insight into the early Beach Boys was incredible, too.)

Also, I got to meet and hang out with David Marks at Hobie's recent East Coast Convention and had a hell of a time.  A really nice guy.

I hope the book is successful for you.  Every single Beach Boys fan should read this book.  Congratulations!

        Love and merci,   Dan Lega

Thanks to Dan and We'll Run Away for the kind words. It means a great deal to me (and to Dave) when we hear from people who enjoyed the book.

BTW..."We'll Run Away" is one of my favorite BW songs. I think it is so beautifully sung...and such a moving arrangement. Somehow Brian manages to blend Blues/Jazz and pure teen pop into something that sounds so simple, and yet is so unique. Brian's vocal in that middle eight might be my all-time favorite voice moment from him.Truly one of THE underrated Beach Boys songs.

oh no doubt, it's in my top 5 bb songs of all time..brias lead is magic

That middle eight is The Most Impossible BW lead for me to sing without going into falsetto.  It is truly amazing!!!

I just noticed a David Marks interview in the October Goldmine.   Jons name and book is mentioned.

Straight forward question:  Is David involved in actually marketing the book?   How does this sort of thing work?

Is he paid?  Or is it just to his advantage?

David co-wrote the book with me...so its his book too. He's the co-author and has the same responsibility to promote it, and the same stake in it that I do...well a bigger one I guess cause he's the subject too.

That makes sense.  I guess I need to actually buy the book and read it.  I'm still working on Riot On Sunset Strip.

I just noticed David popping up here and there talking about his history with the band and wondered about the promotional tie in.

So, next question.   If I might ask.  How did this collaboration come about?  Or has this been discussed previously on this thread?   

For some reason I'm always curious about the backstory on these projects.

Thanks for the informative and enjoyable POB liner notes Jon.

Jon, do you have any idea if the Real Beach Boy book will be re-issued anytime soon?

We're still working on the revised and expanded edition. It should be ready by late summer. Anyone who wants to reserve a copy can leave their contact info here.... www.therealbeachboy.com

just got a copy of the lost beach boy yesterday from amazon. ended up reading the whole book before i put it down. it is a great story. thank you and david for taking the time and effort to put his story to print. would recommend it to anyone with an interest in david's story, his place in the beach boy's history and how his life has turned around.
thank you both once again.

Hi Jon, did Dennis already have the song title "pacific ocean blue" before he asked Mike to write lyrics? basically im wondering did Mike actually come up with the name for the album? even though i know it was intended for 15 big ones at the time.

I don't know the chronology of that collaboration, but the song title is Pacific Ocean Blues, and it is a blues progression. The LP title is something else...Pacific Ocean Blue...not blues. That seems like a concept that came later, especially since the working title for that LP was originally Freckles.

Yeah, but wouldn't you say that the album was named after the track?

I would say its named after a line from the song..."I Love You...Pacific Ocean Blue"...but if it were named after the title of the song then the LP title would be Pacific Ocean Blues right? I think the distinction is intentional.

so did dennis already have the title for the song before he called Mike to write lyrics?

Apparently he did...from what Brad Elliott uncovered in research for his book in 1981, the February 12, 1975 session yielded the titles "Holy Man", "Slow Blooze" (although Brad misinterpreted those two as one single title), and "Pacific Ocean Blues".  That title turned up again in a group of sessions later that year.  In August of '76 Dennis quoted the title to Timothy White as "Pacific Ocean Song", but that may have been a mere slip of the tongue, rather than an actual (albeit brief) change in titles. 

cool. thanks

Jon, I don't know how much you're stopping by these parts these days, but if you happen to check in, I was wondering if, in the process of the Dennis release, you ever talked equipment geek kind of stuff with Hanlon.

Or Earle, for that matter.  Obviously, as you may know, I'd like to know with which finger and how hard was the record button hit for each take and what clothes the engineers were wearing at the time....but less ridiculous than that, did you ever discuss the philosophy behind recording drums for Dennis' stuff?

I'm eternally interested in recording drums, perhaps because that's the only thing I struggle with getting to sound good when I record them, but I find that time period to be an interesting one for drums.

I've seen a good many tracksheets for POB at least, and what's interesting to me (about the era which produced POB)is the transition in the drum mix from the sixties, where there was the philosophy of getting the drum kit with minimal miking, treating the whole kit as one instrument, to the current philosophy, where each element of the drumset is often miked twice, or even thrice, and then each part is heavily processed separately, etc.

I particularly knocked out by the drums on Holy Man.  They capture exactly what I'm talking about; the drums are punchy and "there", indeed moreso than the drums on Pet Sounds or even Sunflower...but they're not "in your face" and they still feel like one instrument.  You can almost here the space around the hi-hat, yet according to the tracksheet, it wasn't miked nor was any special attention paid to it.

Of course, I know Brother had magnificent acoustics for drums, which always helps...but I would love to hear the thoughts of the guys in there recording the drums.

It was definitely fun sitting in the studio with Hanlon while he mixed the Bambu stuff. I tried to take as many notes as I could but most of the time I was just grinning or getting misty. One thing that made a lasting impression is Dennis' use of the Hohner Clavinet, it hit me that Dennis was writing "guitar" style progressions on the Clav...Tug of Love is a great example. Its like he used the Clav as an acoustic guitar on that one. Also the Fender Rhodes usage was really important. We all talk about the grand piano being prevalent in the POB/Bambu sound...but really the Clav and the Rhodes had at least as much impact. That was my tangent... almost completely unrelated to your question.

I also love the drums on Holy Man...I guess we figured that its Ricky on that one. Holy Man really seems to fit the Holland vibe...it would have been great on there. But to your question, in general the drum strategy seems to be one of experiments, trial and error, there was undoubtedly lots of mic placement evolution. But even the feels themselves seem to be in constant evolution. Dennis used cloth, shirts, to deaden drums(on Dreamer), and used the wrong end of sticks, wrapped the sticks, used mallets...he liked to search for the sounds he had rattling around in his head. But usually the search would stumble onto something else, and to him that was just as good or better. People from the sessions always say Dennis never played anything the same way twice, and i think he encouraged those who were there playing on the sessions to have that same approach. And then when the right moment materialized Dennis was tapped in enough to recognize it, capture it, and move on to the next layer of the experiment. I don't have much tech expertise to add, but i would encourage you and others to interview Hanlon and Mankey and Murphy and Moffett while they are still around...again they will say the spirit was one of experimentation and exploration. Everyone agrees that it was usually positive and productive until the latter part of Bambu, and that Dennis was a guy who could do just about anything except save himself.

Also, the musicians who played on the album or those who were to be in his touring band would be good folks to talk to; Eddy Tuleja, for example. He has stories. I think he's living in Tasmania.

Yep, I contacted him and he did provide some great info, as best as he could remember.  As he put it, "If you remember the '70s, you weren't there".  The best quotes I got from him are in my POB essay on my website. (www.beachboysarchives.com).  I'm progressing on a Bambu essay that also has loads of great quotes from people like Tommy Smith.

Regarding the drum sounds on Dennis' solo stuff, I think it's interesting that there seemed to be a shift in mic'ing style when Tom Murphy started doing the sessions:  he used a more "close" mic approach, as opposed to the Mankey/Hanlon "room" mic approach. 

Indeed.

Good stuff, Jon, thanks.

Quick question:
For those who've heard early versions of Holy Man with Carl doing a draft vocal; is the melody similar to the Taylor Hawkins version?

I have heard the version with Carl's brief (non lyrical) vocal ...but it really isn't very revealing regarding melody. The melody is already inherent from Dennis' piano intro as well as the synth parts in the body of the song. Carl and Hawkins both instinctively followed that template. John and Gregg helped Taylor dial it in to a further point than Carl's vocal travels to.

Hi Jon - I truly enjoyed reading your book.  I like your writing style. 

I have a million questions but I'll only ask a few:

(1)  I'm not quite sure I understand Dennis' relationship with Karen Lamm.   On one hand I've read that he was deeply in love with her and his decline is somewhat attributed to their breaking up.  But then I read elsewhere that while they were married, he woke up one morning and told her he wanted a divorce.  I also read some place that she signed for the divorce papers when they were delivered, and she was surprised that he had filed for divorce (and he signed "So sorry" at the bottom of the divorce papers.)   Also, do you have a picture we haven't seen yet of Karen in her later years that you can post?  I know you were fond of her and I think she was wise and special.     

(2)  Dennis would have been 64 years old today.  I have a large hypothetical question:  If Dennis were alive today, do you have an opinion on what he might be doing or might have done up until now??  (This is under the premise that he was able to get intervention and be healthy.) 

I miss him and Carl.   

Thank you.

From what I've read,  Dennis' relationship with Karen was an extreme roller coaster. Some really high ups and some ugly shouty lows. I've always got the impression that Karen was his true love... then again he probably had 1000 true loves  >:D

Can't wait to read your book Jon. I'm waiting on the revised edition before I read it.

Sorry to give such a minimal reply, but i'm packing for a trip and only have minute respond. As Dylz said Karen and Dennis had an extremely volatile relationship. I think the overriding element was passion. Love, hate and everything in between. there is no explaining why two meteors are attracted to each other...but when they collide it usually causes damage to both of them. Karen felt bad in her last days about the things she contributed to Dennis' downfall, and all the bridges she'd burned with his friends. She was good to me, that's for sure.

I just can't comprehend Dennis being around now. I don't think he had a snowball's chance in hell of making to old age, or middle age. He wouldn't be Dennis if he were around today, he'd have to have changed into something else. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been a better, happier Dennis, maybe it would have been. But truthfully I think he was real lucky to make it to 39.

Sometimes I wish he would've at least stayed alive until '85. Or if he'd at least not dived into the water that fateful evening and had made it to Jimmy Guercio's place on New Year's '84, where Guercio and Carl were planning an intervention.

Aloha Jon - any word about the reissue of "The Real Beach Boy"?

Thanks for your interest. The revised edition is progressing but the plan for a release this year has obviously been delayed. The main reasons are I've had some other projects pop up that I absolutely had to attend to, jobs help pay the bills, and the DW book in expanded form is still evolving to a point of closure. I'm committed to getting it right, and getting it out to the public as soon as its ready to go...I hope that will be soon. I will post all relevant updates here, and again thanks for showing interest.

.

Jon, while making a joke in another thread regarding your affinity for David and Dennis, a question occurred to me. I think you'd agree that the majority of your posts pretty strongly defend/praise David and Dennis, about both of whom you have written books. The question that occurred to me is this: was it a result of your research and writing that made your feelings about them so strong, or did strong feelings cause you to write about them? (And obviously, it might be different for each of them; they aren't lumped together.)

If, for example, you were to write a book about Mike Love, could we expect you to be in his corner? I know I'm usually a sarcastic f*cker, but this is a sincere question.

Believe it or not, there were a few people who were close to Dennis who felt (back in 2000) upon that book's publication that it had "gone too far" in exposing the darker side of Dennis. According to one...I'd revealed, "too many of his secrets"...those are quotes I will never forget, and I really got slammed by a few pro-Dennis names you'd recognize. These people were in the minority as most of DW's family and friends were very thankful I'd written the book in the way I did. Subsequently many people(maybe you) think of the book as a hagriographic orgy of non-stop Dennis praise, but in the context of the book's release lets just say it took awhile for that opinion to really take hold. Now, to get to the core of your question, writing about Dennis definitely enhanced my respect for him as both a person and an artist. There were more positive things than I'd expected. There was more residual respect for him as a musician and a human being amongst those he'd worked and played with than i would have guessed. Originally I was expecting to be disappointed once the reality of who he really was had pounded into my brain through a couple years of hardcore research, but instead I liked  him more, I had more respect for him, and even became more interested in his life and work.

With David my view of him probably improved even more than it had with Dennis. I went in thinking David was much less than he is. I was completely naive about him as a musician. He's by far the most technically trained and evolved musician out of the BB's. Berklee School of Music, Boston Conservatory, classical training with Vincente Gomez, etc.. etc... He can write music, read music, score music, he is virtuoso on his instrument, his jazz and classical abilities are more than impressive. I thought he was a burn-out surf guitar guy that became a drug addict, but that was just a tiny part of who he is. And then i learned about all his heavy associations after the BB's(Warren Zevon, Leon Russell, Jim Keltner, Mike Curb, Delaney and Bonnie, T-Bone Burnett etc...etc...) I knew none of that. I was blown away by his story. I also had the pleasure of becoming friends with Dave, one of the most ego-less people I know. My kids love him, that's a great sign. So...on both counts my tendency to defend/praise Dave and Dennis is a result of writing and learning about them, and it really gets under my skin when people make assumptions that are off-base...like that David was just a lucky neighbor who had no influence on the BB's genesis or sound, or that he was Al's "fill-in". These often repeated nuggets bug me because they are so untrue, and in Dave's case once upon a time i was one of the guys repeating that kind of crap...(read what i say about him in my Dennis book).

I'd love to write a book about Mike, but he'd have to endorse me and give me carte-blanche. I think it would be an amazing book. It'll never happen. However, my position regarding Mike would definitely evolve, and probably in a positive direction. But maybe not. Just consider this...Mike was probably the villain of my Dennis Wilson book, along with Drugs and Murry...but in the Dave Marks book Mike is the guy who treated David the best out of all of them, and in a way he's a hero in that book.  So my presentation depends on who's story is being told. If I told your story you might be "sincere Luther" as opposed to "sarcastic Luther"...or maybe something in-between.

Thanks, Jon, I appreciate the response. It wasn't so much your books' content that I was curious about--I wouldn't question one way or the other your published material on Dennis and David--but your subsequent posting, but I think you answered that as well.

Frankly, I believe (maybe incorrectly) that the more anyone really, truly digs into anyone, the more he finds that person's humanity and value. It's easy to come to a message board and disparage a Mike Love (or whomever), but not so easy to disparage your neighbor, your friend or your brother. You start taking things personally when someone else does, too, and that is how I take your posts sometimes. That's not a criticism.

Jon, a quick question...You and many other experts on here have posted repeatedly that "Wouldn't it Be Nice to Live Again" deserves release and it one of Dennis' masterpieces. After hearing Adam's version I have to undoubtably agree. And yet it hasn't happened. My question to you is, can you elaborate about the reason it wasn't on "The Warmth of the Sun" or "Summer Love Songs" or any of the BB archival releases? (I can't imagine Brian or (more strongly) Al vetoing the song...unless they have bad memories of it or they don't think it's that good...which I don't think is the case...) And do you think it will get future release?

Also, is there any other Dennis track that hasn't been released that really deserves release? Anything to the caliber of "Cuddle Up" (perhaps my all-time favorite Dennis cut)?

I was just thinking how I'd love for you to write a book about Mike. What makes you think he wouldn't let you? Or have you already tried?

I assume there must be exceptions to this, but in general I'd agree. Humanity is really the key and I'm glad you put it that way.

How certain songs do or do not find release within the framework of BRI and Capitol/EMI is something I have no input into, and I've never been asked for my opinion.

I can say that Jim Guercio/Caribou, whom I have worked with and who do ask for my opinion, are interested in releasing "everything" regarding Dennis Wilson including his early '70's work and Capitol era work. I know they are sensitive to releasing this material in a way that reflects context and quality. They certainly proved that by doing a great job on the POB/Bambu package with Sony/Legacy. However, Caribou does not control the rights to DW's recordings that were cut in the pre-'75 period. That stuff is in the hands of BRI. If they had chosen to(and found a consensus and motivation within their corporate entity) they could have released any of it by now, and they still can...I know certain parties within BRI are hopeful. They could also license it to Caribou and let Jimmy put it out, or they could sit on it. I'm hoping for a really well thought out DW career retrospective that covers his entire career with plenty of unreleased gems. I can't imagine a better time for it than now.

David gave me complete freedom to write his story the way I wanted, in fact he encouraged me to be as honest as possible. All the dirty laundry was in play. Can you imagine Mike okaying that kind of approach? I can't. However, I do think a completely honest, no holds barred book about Mike would improve his reputation and earn him some respect. Love him, hate him or somewhere in between, Mike is a fascinating person with an epic history. He's seen more than practically any living American rock personality. I seriously doubt he'd ever allow that can of worms to be opened up all the way. But if he did, IMO it would be a fantastic read.

I can't either.

Hi John, can you give us an update on the Dennis documentary for BBC4? The last thing I read was that it was slated for the summer but that's been and gone without the doc being shown and was wondering when we could expect to see it.

Regards,

Paulos

Hi Paulos,
Once the final cut of the DW documentary was approved by BBC they decided to move it into the fall/winter schedule...which usually means more TV viewers than summer. So its not necessarily a bad thing. Anyway, the last I've heard is that its going to air in January on BBC4. If I receive an update or any different info I'll post it here.

Jon, thank you for your prompt reply. I look forward to the doc and I am sure your input will make it all the better as I really enjoyed The Real Beach Boy.

I seriously have to wait till' January though? Oh well, just have to fill may days listening to POB and Bambu!

P.S. Are you able to give us any details on the doc such as how long it is, who was interviewed etc?

Here's a link that gives some info...  http://www.thejonstebbins.com/dwdocumentary.html
Obviously it needs an update as the summer air-date given is wrong. But  the rest is correct, and there are also some still photos from some of the interview segments. This doc. is filled with Dennis' music and images.

Jon, I may have asked this before.  But, what are the odds, in you opinion, of ever seeing a Carl Wilson bio?  Some great stuff there and I think there is so much below the surface, behind the scenes, the early years and the later years, that would make a fascinating, low key, yet powerful story.

The youngest Wilson brother, quietly taking the reins of the Beach boys while his older brothers deal with other issues and interests.  The strong, gentle baby brother.  His struggles with drugs and temptations.  His insistance on high quality BB performances.  The solo years and music, the return, his relationship with Dean Martin, his wives, Billy, and Dino.  His battle with Cancer.  And so much more on his relationships and influences within the band.

That is a great idea! Out of the whole band, I think Carl is the most overlooked. Which is a shame, with everything that he did behind the scenes. I mean, the guy was just barely out of school and he had to basically "replace" his brother in the band that was going head to head with bands such as The Beatles. Being a kid just out of school is damn near impossible in itself.

Jon, Can you stop looking down on the rest of us for just a bit, and post something here, truly worthy of your amazing greatness?

I got nothing man. Maybe we should start a Chris Woods thread.

I considered posting this elsewhere on the general on-topic forum, but then I thought 'hey, there is a thread for this author' and so here I am!

I read all of your book on Dennis yesterday. The obvious and immediate benefit was that of extolling the virtues of Dennis as a (severely underrated and underused) musician, artiste, and person. Conversely, it also made it really hard to not keep disliking Mike. For someone who supposedly cares about his family he has an odd way of expressing it... I get the impression that the Lovester is a shrewd businessman first and foremost and that although he loved his family, when they got in the way of the gravy train, he was, shall we say, a wee bit callous. At the risk of making this delightfully simple, one-dimensional portrait more complex -- and so to ruin the quaint narrative -- can you comment a little more on your own impressions with Mike?

Forgive me if this question has been asked far too many times before and is, at this point, absurdly uninteresting to you.

My personal impressions of Mike have improved to a degree since I wrote that book in '98/'99. However, any honest book on Dennis would need to explore the negative side of the Dennis/Mike dynamic and mine did from an admittedly pro-Dennis stance. It could have been worse and I have the interviews to prove it. But yes, that book frames Mike as a kind of Dennis nemesis and for that story i think it holds true. If you ever have occasion to read my David Marks bio from 2007 The Lost Beach Boy you'll see that Mike is one of the most positive characters in that story. He comes off as one of the good people in Dave's tale. Different stories, different perspectives. Is Mike a hero or villain? Depends on who you ask. From the BB's extended family of people I've interviewed there are more who would count him as villain, but less of them who would say that on the record. So, not everyone's favorite guy, but one that still commands respect.

I have not read your book on Marks, unfortunately, although it's definitely on my to-read list! It is curious though, that he comes across so positively when dealing with David Marks, as you say. I'm sure you discuss this in your book so forgive me if this too is a mundane question (or one with an obvious answer) but do you think Mike's geniality towards David is because he was not family? I mean, surely while David was in the band from around its formation to 1963, Mike had enough time to get a good sense of who 'David Marks' was -- and I don't think Mike was so adamantly anti-drug at that point, so.... what else could it be? I don't think it's quite that simple, of course, because although Brian and Dennis [I am here bracketing out Carl because I'm not entirely sure of their relationship] were family, Mike still seemed to treat them less than respectfully at times. They were, after all, also significant contributors (or in some cases hindrances) to money-makin'! What I mean to say is, do you think David's relative distance from the family dynamic of The Beach Boys made him "lucky" in that way?

Why are people so reluctant to speak poorly on record about Mike, anyway? Is it simply that he's so litigious? It's not like he's scared of running his mouth about stuff, whether informed or not; on record or otherwise!

Basically, in the Beach Boys world, everyone works for / is related to / is best friends with / was married to / slept with everyone else -- or may at some point. So everyone knows dirt about everyone else, and everyone is fairly willing to dish if you're a fan and polite. But everyone is also off the record on the subject because there's still a living in playing the music or enjoyment in staying in the family. So everyone tries to stay in the good graces of Mike / Brian's org / Al, etc.

So basically, yeah. You'll hear super bad stuff about Mike. You'll hear crazy stuff about Brian -- let's just say that "out of it" doesn't begin to describe the man some days. And Al certainly hasn't been sunshine and light all the time. But while it's fun to talk about in private, it definitely doesn't pay to broadcast stuff -- about any of the BRI principals.

Mr. Stebbins.... I've been dying to read The Real Beach Boy for a while now, but read that a new version is coming out. I'd much rather see the money spent go into your pocket rather than those of the sleaze merchants making a profit off your work on Amazon. Waiting for the new version is definitely going to be worth it, right?  :)

I once read that because Carl kept his private life very secret to the outside world, that's the way his family and friends want to keep it. But maybe they are also scared by all those terrible Beach Boys-books that did more damage to the band than one might think. Fortunately the last decade or so saw the release on some very, very good books written with respect while telling the truth

I have been working (on and off) on an expanded, updated and revised version, and I'd say its a safe bet it will be worth the wait. However, the wait is still an undetermined length as I have other projects eating up much of my time, making it hard to make consistent progress. Ive already blown my self set deadline twice, and will probably blow it again if i set another one. I'll announce it here when its ready, hopefully that won't be too terribly much longer. I have another Beach Boys book coming out this year...

http://halleonardbooks.com/product/viewproduct.do?itemid=332994&lid=8&keywords=FAQ&menuid=10283&subsiteid=168&

http://halleonardbooks.com/search/search.do?subsiteid=168&keywords=FAQ&menuid=10283

I was at Book Expo this week and was happy to see that the folks at Hal Leonard had your upcoming title prominently displayed.  Looking forward to reading it.

Aloha Jon - Enjoyed your interview on Icon Fetch.  I think you are a wonderful journalist and I greatly enjoy your books.

Reading your posts on the Carol Kaye thread, you, rightfully so, frustrate over journalists not doing their homework and spreading false facts about Dennis 'the drummer', or, in other threads/print, about David Marks membership in the Beach Boys.  And how these erroneous statements become embedded in the public's mind as fact.

But I have to point out that you were somewhat guilty of the same thing in your Icon Fetch interview (unless they cut it).  You (obviously) correctly state that David was living across the street, on the first four albums and Al didn't play on an album until number three.  And, of course, the Carl/David signature guitar sound.  Anyone listening though, not familiar with the real story, would certainly think Al Jardine was not an original member.

I'm sure you get tired of explaining the tricky story that how they were both original members (Al being on the first single 'Surfin').

Apologies for being picky bout that.  I know the interview was time limited and the Al/David story does take a few minutes.

Aloha and happy holidays!

I loved Beach Boys FAQ! It was one of the easiest, most entertaining pieces of work I have ever read. Thank you! Looking forward to your comments after the reunion is said and done.

Jon - Bummed you didn't address this.  And to think I've bought all your books. Sigh...........

Instead of being bummed, maybe you could bump your post letting him know that even though he's a very busy man, you'd love a few moments of his time and you're bumping the thread just in case he missed your question. 

Or maybe your post just wasn't worth a response.  ;) :lol :hat

Maybe it'll all be explained in Jon's next book "Al Jardine – the Clean Beach Boy"…  ;D

I'd read it. It's weird how many people I know who know people but I don't have that many stories.  Al's book would be the shortest I think, but he had the right idea: buy a piece of paradise on the central California coast and live there forever. He's certainly never had his mind shattered or sued his family members a bunch of times.

Any plans for more Beach Boys books, Jon? You could write the companion books for Lost & Real and then release a box set when they're all done!!!

But defnininitely rerelease teh Dennis book before that happens.

I'd read it too (I thought you were using past tense for a second when I saw your reply -  thought I'd missed a book!), and yes, Al seems to have thought along the same lines as Neil Young in terms of buying a piece of California and living in peace.  Broken Arrow, Red Barn…

Visited the California coast, including Big Sur, in around 2001 or 02 and loved it to bits. Noticed Al's name in the list of benefactors at the Monterey Bay Aquarium too, so he's not just there to reap the benefits but is putting something back in.

Jon posts on the board all the time.  Yeah, you're right though he is busy.

Obviously, you haven't heard the interview. 8o
But try a little humor  bro (instead of slinging the do do). Like John Manning above, who gave me a good laugh.  Funny!!!!!!!!!

I thought it was full of humor; maybe you just didn't understand?
And probably, Jon has better things to do than check his self-named thread and address things that don't need to be addressed

John Manning is a funny dude. 

Whoa...sorry about not responding to all of the above posts. Because this "Honored Guest" section or thread is separated from the normal/general threads...I rarely think to check it. Usually I just scan the general thread topics and if there's one I want to read or comment on i go there, then I leave the board. I need to start checking in here as part of my routine.

To Surf Rider...thanks for pointing the thing about Al out. I haven't listened to the interview since I did it...but I understand what you're saying. Since nearly every short bio or snippet regarding the Beach Boys lists Al as the orig. member and ignores David, i tend to try to emphasize his original Beach Boy status, and if i did it in a way that diminished Al's founder status that was wrong of course. I think the point I often make is that the press...pop music press, teen mag press etc... from the earliest mentions of the Beach Boys until 1964 never utter the words Al Jardine. If you were to discover the Beach Boys in say 62 or 63 as a lot of us did, there was never any indication that a guy named Al played in the band and was replaced by Dave. Dave was always written up as one of the original members of the group. Then, suddenly in '64 there was this other guy. And at that point the story changed to, well he was the original member, and the other guy Dave was just filling in. And that's the way its been told ever since...until a few of us started reminding people that that was basically propaganda and that both Al and Dave were part of the genesis of the Beach Boys. I need to remember that not everyone is up to speed on that fact yet.

To Stack, Melt, Bgas, and John...Like Al, I have a little piece of the Central Coast of California too. Actually i rent one...but I live with my family near Morro Bay, its a beautiful place, and on a clear day i can see all the way up to Big Sur and i always wave to Al in case he's looking down the coast. I do have plans for more Beach Boys books, revising and expanding the Dennis book, and then there's a couple others in the works too. Not a book on Al or Carl or any individual (Other than Dennis), but two more on various aspects of the whole group. Everything will be announced later this year...til then i have to stay quiet about the details. There's also the possibility of another documentary focusing on the Beach Boys reunion etc...but from a much different angle than the official one that is also in the works...I'm talking to people about all of that now. Might happen, might not.

Thanks so much to the people who read my books, and more thanks to those who then take the time to comment on them...I'm a lucky guy, and I really appreciate the great people on this board.

Thanks Jon.  I truly get how frustrating the David think must be.  I think it's generally accepted in rock and roll that, if you are on the first album, you are an original member.  I never hear Ringo getting dogged for not being an original member.  Al was on the first single.  David was around but not on the session.

I have to confess that when I got into the Beach Boys in 1972, I just assumed Al was there from the start.  Plus, I was listening to Carl and the Passions and Holland, not the first three albums.  I was a baby when records came out with David, not Al.  Kudos to you for setting history straight (and continuually trying to).

And I can't wait to see David Marks, original Beach Boy, playing those famous licks live with the band again.  It's sad we don't have Carl and Dennis, but we do get David again.

Awesome! I'll be on the look out for sure, can't wait!!

Hi Jon,

Good to see you posting on here! I have a question about a passage in your book. Whilst talking about Time To Get Alone you say that Carl's produced version was not good enough so it went un-released. Is this your opinion or did Carl/Brian decide it wasn't quite good enough to release as single? I for one would have loved this to have become public property but it would be interesting to know what stopped it being a hit.

Thanks in advance! :)

C

Hi,
I heard the Carl produced version some years ago and it struck me as more minimal and kind of murky compared to Brian's track. I'm not an expert on the chronology of those sessions but I assume Carl's was recorded later than Brian's...probably in late '68 or early '69. The exact reason why Carl took a crack at the song is a mystery to me, but maybe he felt the Brian version was more of a Redwood song than a Beach Boys song. Anyway, i think Brian's track with the Beach Boys vocals on it is a fantastic recording, and in comparison Carl's was kind of half baked and I think incomplete. But its certainly a fascinating piece of music no matter.

Thanks for the reply Jon. Time to Get Alone is by far the best BB song in my eyes and my favourite song of all time. All versions are magical. I just love it and want to know more about the history of it, people's thoughts about the recordings etc. Is there much on this?

While I've already read (and enjoyed) FAQ cover-to-cover, I still occasionally open it & just read at random; it's always interesting. Today, I happened to read an Alan interview from August, 2009, about the possibility of a BB reunion (page 272). He was "adamant that a full-scale tour- rather than a TV special- would be needed to see him take the stage as a Beach Boy again" (Howie Edelson's words describing Alan's feelings) & that "you rehearse your ass off, make it the best you can, and you tour as a unit" (a direct Jardine quote). Well, 2 & 1/2 years later, the first part is about to happen. Kind of eerie. Who would have ever thought this could happen in 2009? BTW, later in the interview, even Alan said he didn't think it would. I sure hope all band members believe in the second statement.

Saw Jon's book today at my local independent book store. Very cool to see.

Jon, I wanted to re-visit my question about TTGA. Is the version you refer to the 20/20 one? If so, I cannot understand why this was thought of as inferior to any other version! Do you know what Carl added to the sound when he produced it? I would love to know how he put his stamp on it. This piece of music is an absolutely amazing gift, I never fail to be moved by it.

Jon, I know you mentioned in an earlier post that you rarely check the 'Honored Guests' section, but maybe you will sometime soon.  Is there any update on the reissue of 'The Real Beach Boy'?

Thanks for asking. The only update I can give you is that work continues on the revised and expanded Dennis Wilson - The Real Beach Boy book. Its very hard to determine when it will be ready as my schedule continually changes and is challenged by other projects. I have a new book coming out in June (co-written with Ian Rusten) and that one took up a lot of my time the first half of last year.
http://www.amazon.com/Beach-Boys-Concert-Complete-Americas/dp/1617134562/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1354587023&sr=1-4&keywords=Jon+Stebbins

There are also a couple of other projects in the works (books and documentary) and getting the Dennis book out depends on how it all unfolds. Sorry to be vague, but the good news is that its progressing and one of these days I'll report a solid release schedule. I appreciate the continued interest from so many people, and I'm determined to give them a Dennis book they will cherish.

Great news, thanks for the update.  I'm sure it will be worth the wait. :thumbsup

Jon,

Mega-thanks for taking the time to talk about your just released Beach Boys in Concert book.

Listeners will enjoy your take on Badman, BeachBoysmania and their future legacy.

Phil@PrayForSurf.net

Link to the post and links for the podcast:

Post:
http://prayforsurfblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/exclusive-podcast-with-jon-stebbins-on.html

Podcast:
https://archive.org/download/BeachBoysJuly320134/BeachBoysJuly320134_vbr_mp3.zip  Download zip file
https://archive.org/download/BeachBoysJuly320134/BeachBoysJuly320134_vbr.m3u      Download
https://archive.org/stream/BeachBoysJuly320134     Stream

hi Mr. Stebbins.  I just wanted to know if denny sang in the harmony for "I'll Be Home for Christmas" or not because that's my favorite song on the album and if he wasn't apart of that...

ask c- man

I'm new here and I don't know who c-man is.  should I just ask him on the other thread or start a new one or?  sorry if I'm a bother I've just had this question in my mind for a long time :-\

I recently heard that a new Dennis Wilson book by Jon Stebbins is going to be released.  I'm really looking forward to reading something new about Dennis Wilson since I am a fan of his.  I was wondering what the current status of the book is and when I will be able to order it?

I've been developing a revised and expanded edition of the Real Beach Boy book for a few years, it has taken a long time to complete because it's a massive upgrade of the 2000 version of the book, and because of the many other projects and books that I've completed or that I am in the midst of working on. Also, the Dennis book has some legal clearance and liability issues that are slowing down the last phase of production, but all of this is being worked on and progress continues. It will be a much bigger and better version than my original DW book when it is released, but no release date can be given as of yet for the reasons mentioned above. Thanks for your interest in the book! I will certainly announce the release on this board when the time comes.

Jon...Haven't seen you around for awhile.  You well?  Or just extra busy?  Lee

All good. Just haven't had much time for board participation lately.

jeez!  You need to re-order your priorities then....

Hi Jon,

Looking forward greatly to the new edition of The Real Beach Boy, whenever that should reach fruition. In the meantime, is there any way that you're aware of to get my hands on a copy of the original version for less than the $70 or so that I can find it for on Amazon or Barnes and Noble?

Thanks so much.

I'm very interested in the revised and expanded edition of The Real Beach Boy. Are there still legal clearance and liability issues? I hope everything works out. I'm looking forward to it!

I, too, am curious about this. I never read the original (esp since its so high priced) so would love to buy the new one.

Thanks for interest in the Real Beach Boy book. The orig. is pretty hard to find at a decent price, I guess it's a supply/demand thing. I only have a couple of copies myself. The new expanded edition continues to be something like my Smile, I haven't burned the files, but it's just been endless delays and stops and starts because of legal tangles, clearance and rights issues, and most importantly I have a day job and a wife and kids etc... Also working on many other things, like an expanded and revised David Marks book, another Beach Boys TV project, and some other Beach Boys and non-Beach Boys entertainment field stuff. All good, all exciting, all time consuming. The Dennis book is my baby though, and when it finally is released it will be a beautiful thing. Again, thanks for being interested. I greatly appreciate people wanting it, and also greatly appreciate people being patient. Should be soon.

Thank you, sir, for writing it. :=)

And, of course, our autographed copies will be available before the clock strikes 2019... ;)...right Jon?  Better to be busy though.  Thumb twiddlin' ain't anywhere near what it's cracked up to be. :hat