W i l d H o n e y

[tansen]

It always bothers me when people draw these delineations to argue that BW abandoned psychedelia after Smiley Smile, and that Wild Honey is not a psychedelic record
I would maintain that once BW's music cracked into that impressionistic dimension sometime in 65, it remained psychedelic for a long time; just in increasingly subtle and homespun ways.
lyrically? not always. but musically? hell yeah!

psychedelic aspects on wild honey, off the top of my head:

"Wild Honey" the overall sound of the track, the wailing theremins and distant organs, and the stop and start rhythm, it's a very trippy song
"Aren't You Glad" the distant and yet burning tone of the horns, the way the organ buzz piles up, the weird edits between the verses and choruses
"I Was Made to Love Her" again, the overall sound of this thing, that fat bass just locked in with the low piano, while the tambourine and organ (?) hold up the high end, granted these are subjective analyses but i hear something very psychedelic indeed
"Country Air" should be so obvious. the way bruce's high vocal melts into that rooster. that burning organ buzz again, this time threatening to envelop everything. the weird verses that are almost free-form, whistle scat vocals. this song feels like a more controlled 'smiley smile' experiment
"A Thing or Two" one of the trippest songs on the album! the bizarro structure, the way some lines just end really early leaving weird stray guitar notes hanging by themselves in the ether, and then the hard edits into those choruses! The sound of that chorus is one of the fattest ever, that organ just envelops you and the piano/bass syncopated line is just wild
"Darlin" probably the least psychedelic piece on the album and perhaps as a result has always been my least favorite. beautiful song though and that "every night" bridge is as lovely as anything he ever wrote, and again scratching at that heart-rending impressionistic vein he could do so well
"I'd Love Just Once to See You" the overall cathedral like ambience, oddly juxtaposed against such a mundane concept and lyric. the weird hard edit at the end that drops a beat. the sudden fade just as the song feels like its opening up. all very psychedelic touches.
"Here Comes the Night" the intensity with which the choruses ascend up and down the chords, also that thick organ again that just renders your brain to mush. the hypnotic repetition.
"Let the Wind Blow" should be so obvious i'm not even gonna waste my energy. the most psychedelic thing on here.
"How She Boogalooed It" is just a silly song but with a lot of great period details!
"Mama Says" is obviously very psychedelic.

To argue that "Wild Honey" is "JUST" an R&B album is reductionist and oversimplistic in my opinion. Yes, BW was clearly trying to bring the band back to that raw emotion, screaming vocals around a pounded piano thing. but there was no going back from what he had learned. and these impressionistic masterstrokes are all over the record

Well said!

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I just listened to the Hawthorne, CA Stereo mix of "Let The Wind Blow" let me just say, I'm 100% on board for a Stereo (and 5.1) remix of this album now

[drbeachboy]

Do we know what issues there are for doing a stereo mix of Wild Honey? Things like mono overdubs, like the organ solo on the title track, etc.?

[Alex]

Those are some psychedelic, happening songs.

Nothing psychedelic about the album in any form. Just a great album done in the way Sam Phillips (of SUN Records) would've recorded it

Sam Phillips actually making an album with the group sounds awesome.

Unfortunately it's too late.

One can only dream of the awesomeness. I miss those old labels like Sun and Chess records.

Well, there is always the singer-songwriter Leslie "Sam" Phillips...I beleive VDP did some arrangements on one of her albums.

[oldsurferdude]

It always bothers me when people draw these delineations to argue that BW abandoned psychedelia after Smiley Smile, and that Wild Honey is not a psychedelic record
I would maintain that once BW's music cracked into that impressionistic dimension sometime in 65, it remained psychedelic for a long time; just in increasingly subtle and homespun ways.
lyrically? not always. but musically? hell yeah!

psychedelic aspects on wild honey, off the top of my head:

"Wild Honey" the overall sound of the track, the wailing theremins and distant organs, and the stop and start rhythm, it's a very trippy song
"Aren't You Glad" the distant and yet burning tone of the horns, the way the organ buzz piles up, the weird edits between the verses and choruses
"I Was Made to Love Her" again, the overall sound of this thing, that fat bass just locked in with the low piano, while the tambourine and organ (?) hold up the high end, granted these are subjective analyses but i hear something very psychedelic indeed
"Country Air" should be so obvious. the way bruce's high vocal melts into that rooster. that burning organ buzz again, this time threatening to envelop everything. the weird verses that are almost free-form, whistle scat vocals. this song feels like a more controlled 'smiley smile' experiment
"A Thing or Two" one of the trippest songs on the album! the bizarro structure, the way some lines just end really early leaving weird stray guitar notes hanging by themselves in the ether, and then the hard edits into those choruses! The sound of that chorus is one of the fattest ever, that organ just envelops you and the piano/bass syncopated line is just wild
"Darlin" probably the least psychedelic piece on the album and perhaps as a result has always been my least favorite. beautiful song though and that "every night" bridge is as lovely as anything he ever wrote, and again scratching at that heart-rending impressionistic vein he could do so well
"I'd Love Just Once to See You" the overall cathedral like ambience, oddly juxtaposed against such a mundane concept and lyric. the weird hard edit at the end that drops a beat. the sudden fade just as the song feels like its opening up. all very psychedelic touches.
"Here Comes the Night" the intensity with which the choruses ascend up and down the chords, also that thick organ again that just renders your brain to mush. the hypnotic repetition.
"Let the Wind Blow" should be so obvious i'm not even gonna waste my energy. the most psychedelic thing on here.
"How She Boogalooed It" is just a silly song but with a lot of great period details!
"Mama Says" is obviously very psychedelic.

To argue that "Wild Honey" is "JUST" an R&B album is reductionist and oversimplistic in my opinion. Yes, BW was clearly trying to bring the band back to that raw emotion, screaming vocals around a pounded piano thing. but there was no going back from what he had learned. and these impressionistic masterstrokes are all over the record

Well said!

"The Rolling Stone Record Review, published in 1971 by Pocket Books, features a review of WH, Friends, and Sunflower. I would also suggest Outlaw Blues by Paul Williams, published by E.P. Dutton in 1969 which features a complete chapter Called Brian-A Celebration of Wild Honey and the Tradgedy of Smile. It would be an interesting read for both of you. It helps to explain what was going on with Brians's head at the time and how WH was a complete turnaround for him in his writing. While you feel that there are "psychedelic" twinges in WH is perfectly acceptable, and I'm quite sure that we could find them in anything from that era if you tried hard enough. But, I will say that when it was released, it was not perceived by the record buying public as psychedelic by any stretch of the imagination-not even on weed.

[dmcguire70]

Lol, it's ridiculous to say Wild Honey doesn't have a psychedelic influence, or even psychedelic elements in it. Anyone with a pair of ears and can hear that.

Then you never really listened to 50s R'n'B, etc., did you ? The only psychedeic thing about Wild Honey is Bruce's organ solo and even that could be discussed. Influence is another prospect but musicalley there's (almost) nothing psychedelic in the whole album

The only  psychedelic thing about wild honey is -Let The Wind Blow- which I could imagine being played down at Haight Ashbury.

[puni puni]

I just listened to the Hawthorne, CA Stereo mix of "Let The Wind Blow" let me just say, I'm 100% on board for a Stereo (and 5.1) remix of this album now

the thing with that though is it has just waaaay too much reverb and noise gating

the bass would probably work better centered too

[tansen]

dmc, if you think that's the only song on the album with psychedelic elements, you really haven't listened to the record.

[Curtis Leon]

but there was no going back from what he had learned. and these impressionistic masterstrokes are all over the record

Agreed a thousand times. One just has to listen to Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby (the early Sharon Marie version, not the Spring one) and Darlin' back to back to know that.

[linusoli]

It always bothers me when people draw these delineations to argue that BW abandoned psychedelia after Smiley Smile, and that Wild Honey is not a psychedelic record
I would maintain that once BW's music cracked into that impressionistic dimension sometime in 65, it remained psychedelic for a long time; just in increasingly subtle and homespun ways.
lyrically? not always. but musically? hell yeah!

psychedelic aspects on wild honey, off the top of my head:

"Wild Honey" the overall sound of the track, the wailing theremins and distant organs, and the stop and start rhythm, it's a very trippy song
"Aren't You Glad" the distant and yet burning tone of the horns, the way the organ buzz piles up, the weird edits between the verses and choruses
"I Was Made to Love Her" again, the overall sound of this thing, that fat bass just locked in with the low piano, while the tambourine and organ (?) hold up the high end, granted these are subjective analyses but i hear something very psychedelic indeed
"Country Air" should be so obvious. the way bruce's high vocal melts into that rooster. that burning organ buzz again, this time threatening to envelop everything. the weird verses that are almost free-form, whistle scat vocals. this song feels like a more controlled 'smiley smile' experiment
"A Thing or Two" one of the trippest songs on the album! the bizarro structure, the way some lines just end really early leaving weird stray guitar notes hanging by themselves in the ether, and then the hard edits into those choruses! The sound of that chorus is one of the fattest ever, that organ just envelops you and the piano/bass syncopated line is just wild
"Darlin" probably the least psychedelic piece on the album and perhaps as a result has always been my least favorite. beautiful song though and that "every night" bridge is as lovely as anything he ever wrote, and again scratching at that heart-rending impressionistic vein he could do so well
"I'd Love Just Once to See You" the overall cathedral like ambience, oddly juxtaposed against such a mundane concept and lyric. the weird hard edit at the end that drops a beat. the sudden fade just as the song feels like its opening up. all very psychedelic touches.
"Here Comes the Night" the intensity with which the choruses ascend up and down the chords, also that thick organ again that just renders your brain to mush. the hypnotic repetition.
"Let the Wind Blow" should be so obvious i'm not even gonna waste my energy. the most psychedelic thing on here.
"How She Boogalooed It" is just a silly song but with a lot of great period details!
"Mama Says" is obviously very psychedelic.

To argue that "Wild Honey" is "JUST" an R&B album is reductionist and oversimplistic in my opinion. Yes, BW was clearly trying to bring the band back to that raw emotion, screaming vocals around a pounded piano thing. but there was no going back from what he had learned. and these impressionistic masterstrokes are all over the record

Well said!

"The Rolling Stone Record Review, published in 1971 by Pocket Books, features a review of WH, Friends, and Sunflower. I would also suggest Outlaw Blues by Paul Williams, published by E.P. Dutton in 1969 which features a complete chapter Called Brian-A Celebration of Wild Honey and the Tradgedy of Smile. It would be an interesting read for both of you. It helps to explain what was going on with Brians's head at the time and how WH was a complete turnaround for him in his writing. While you feel that there are "psychedelic" twinges in WH is perfectly acceptable, and I'm quite sure that we could find them in anything from that era if you tried hard enough. But, I will say that when it was released, it was not perceived by the record buying public as psychedelic by any stretch of the imagination-not even on weed.

Granted, I wasn't alive in the 1960s so I might be lacking on the context. But I feel like we are defining psychedelia in far too narrow terms, perhaps we are defining it as more political than we need to (from this vantage point, it's no longer really an "us" and "them" issue). I was a huge stoner and acidhead in my teens and I can say with confidence that Wild Honey is one of the great drug lps of all time

[oldsurferdude]

Perhaps of your time, but not during the psychedelic period. No way. Pepper, Satanic Majesties Request, Disraeli Gears, Pink Floyd and others were the big psych players of the time-certainly not the Beach Boys of all groups. Believe me when I say that 1967 to 1971 wasn't a fashionable time to listen to the group let alone light up or trip to them.

[tansen]

Perhaps of your time, but not during the psychedelic period. No way. Pepper, Satanic Majesties Request, Disraeli Gears, Pink Floyd and others were the big psych players of the time-certainly not the Beach Boys of all groups. Believe me when I say that 1967 to 1971 wasn't a fashionable time to listen to the group let alone light up or trip to them.

Lol, but you're not getting it. All we are saying is that it has psychedelic elements, which it no doubt has.

[sockittome]

I'm inclined to believe that there are psychedelic elements in Wild Honey.  Whether or not they were perceived by the public in the '60s is irrelevant.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Then you never really listened to 50s R'n'B, etc., did you ?

Did you?

Sorry, but while Wild Honey is very much indebted to R'n'B, it's not 50's R'n'B. There's not much here that references, say, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson, Lee Dorsey, etc. It's not even really an homage to people like Chuck Berry who is all over the early BB records. Instead, the R'n'B that informs Wild Honey, is 60s R'n'B, like Motown and Stax, hence the horns on Darlin', the cover of Stevie Wonder, etc.

And the fact is that late 60s psychedelia was informed by Motown and Stax, and by late 1967, wore those influences on its sleeve even more so. So, we have something like Whiter Shade of Pale, which is certainly inspired by When A Man Loves a Woman. Then you have Joplin basically doing soul songs. The Letter by the Box Tops was certainly one of the first that was actively sounding soul-inspired. But Wild Honey, in many ways, nicely informed the connections between soul and psychedelia that were to be even more heavily felt through 1968 and 1969 in songs like "Baby, Now That I Found You," "Midnight Confessions," "Judy in Disguise", stuff by Blood, Sweat, and Tears, etc.

[linusoli]

Then you never really listened to 50s R'n'B, etc., did you ?

Did you?

Sorry, but while Wild Honey is very much indebted to R'n'B, it's not 50's R'n'B. There's not much here that references, say, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson, Lee Dorsey, etc. It's not even really an homage to people like Chuck Berry who is all over the early BB records. Instead, the R'n'B that informs Wild Honey, is 60s R'n'B, like Motown and Stax, hence the horns on Darlin', the cover of Stevie Wonder, etc.

And the fact is that late 60s psychedelia was informed by Motown and Stax, and by late 1967, wore those influences on its sleeve even more so. So, we have something like Whiter Shade of Pale, which is certainly inspired by When A Man Loves a Woman. Then you have Joplin basically doing soul songs. The Letter by the Box Tops was certainly one of the first that was actively sounding soul-inspired. But Wild Honey, in many ways, nicely informed the connections between soul and psychedelia that were to be even more heavily felt through 1968 and 1969 in songs like "Baby, Now That I Found You," "Midnight Confessions," "Judy in Disguise", stuff by Blood, Sweat, and Tears, etc.

Thumps up 

[tansen]

Then you never really listened to 50s R'n'B, etc., did you ?

Did you?

Sorry, but while Wild Honey is very much indebted to R'n'B, it's not 50's R'n'B. There's not much here that references, say, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson, Lee Dorsey, etc. It's not even really an homage to people like Chuck Berry who is all over the early BB records. Instead, the R'n'B that informs Wild Honey, is 60s R'n'B, like Motown and Stax, hence the horns on Darlin', the cover of Stevie Wonder, etc.

And the fact is that late 60s psychedelia was informed by Motown and Stax, and by late 1967, wore those influences on its sleeve even more so. So, we have something like Whiter Shade of Pale, which is certainly inspired by When A Man Loves a Woman. Then you have Joplin basically doing soul songs. The Letter by the Box Tops was certainly one of the first that was actively sounding soul-inspired. But Wild Honey, in many ways, nicely informed the connections between soul and psychedelia that were to be even more heavily felt through 1968 and 1969 in songs like "Baby, Now That I Found You," "Midnight Confessions," "Judy in Disguise", stuff by Blood, Sweat, and Tears, etc.

Thumps up 

+2

[oldsurferdude]

Then you never really listened to 50s R'n'B, etc., did you ?

Did you?

Sorry, but while Wild Honey is very much indebted to R'n'B, it's not 50's R'n'B. There's not much here that references, say, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson, Lee Dorsey, etc. It's not even really an homage to people like Chuck Berry who is all over the early BB records. Instead, the R'n'B that informs Wild Honey, is 60s R'n'B, like Motown and Stax, hence the horns on Darlin', the cover of Stevie Wonder, etc.

And the fact is that late 60s psychedelia was informed by Motown and Stax, and by late 1967, wore those influences on its sleeve even more so. So, we have something like Whiter Shade of Pale, which is certainly inspired by When A Man Loves a Woman. Then you have Joplin basically doing soul songs. The Letter by the Box Tops was certainly one of the first that was actively sounding soul-inspired. But Wild Honey, in many ways, nicely informed the connections between soul and psychedelia that were to be even more heavily felt through 1968 and 1969 in songs like "Baby, Now That I Found You," "Midnight Confessions," "Judy in Disguise", stuff by Blood, Sweat, and Tears, etc.

Thumps up 

+2

[chris.metcalfe]

The Rolling Stone Record Review, published in 1971 by Pocket Books, features a review of WH, Friends, and Sunflower.

The Rolling Stone magazine review of Surf's Up by Arthur Schmidt (who I had the pleasure to meet - and who swapped me his copy of Friends for some...thing) also has a couple of superb paragraphs on Wild Honey, particularly 'Country Air' I seem to remember.

[cablegeddon]

Anyone know what part of Darlin, Mike Love wrote? Did he just write the lyrics or did he compose too?

I never thought about it before. "I'd love just to once see you" is like the original indiepop. It sounds exactly like early Death Cab for Cutie and Pavement.

what Death Cab or Pavement song sounds like "I'd Love Just Once to See You"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNzY33S_jA

Death cab for cutie? Any song with a bappadapa for example soul meets body. Pavement? Now I got to think of a Pavement song...

[positivemusic]

Two separate thoughts on this thread:

1) Not to insult anyone's opinions here, but I sincerely hope that ghost is not back. This guy, to me, was nothing but a troll and a major detractor from what normally is a serious exchange of ideas and opinions about The Beach Boys. While he did seem somewhat knowledgeable about certain aspects of the band, it was just plain stupid and annoying to see in the middle of serious threads, posts from him glorifying the "Wilson/Landy/Alexander" songwriting partnership, the stuff about Manson being the subject of Dennis' "Little Bird," the "Wilson brothers were gay" thread title, or that diatribe to zen or whatever under his "'Surfin' is better than 'Good Vibrations'" which he then bumped six times. And those are just a few examples of this guy begging for attention. Sorry to vent so long after this all went down, but I became incredibly irritated while reading through this and other threads not about Smile, at how his insane posts interrupted otherwise very insightful posts.

2) To the topic at hand, I love Wild Honey. It was only the third studio album I had from the band. Oddly I first got hold of Surfin' Safari, Pet Sounds, then Wild Honey. Though, before that, I had had the 1995 or 96' version of greatest hits CD for a few years. I've loved it since I first heard it and was the "chill out" music for me at a very tough time in my life and that fondness has stayed with me.
At first only knowing Smile from the Good Vibrations box set and not having Smiley Smile yet, I was in awe of the change in sound from Pet Sounds. Having a clearer view of it now, it makes perfect sense that this would be what would following something such as Smile. It seemed to be the trend after big productions to retreat back to simpler works. A lot is said about The Beatles' backtracking after Sgt. Pepper, but to further that case, I would also note The Rolling Stones' Beggar's Banquet, widely seen as a return to their R&B roots.
Although, save for the title track, I don't personally hear any hints at psychedelia on Wild Honey, I'm not going to say others can't. I believe certain terms, including psychedelic can be taken subjectively due to each person's experience. But for me, Jon is right on the money about this being Brian's attempt to bring the band in a different direction from what was "mainstream."

[Newguy562]

also wild honey has the best looking cover out of all their albums

[positivemusic]

also wild honey has the best looking cover out of all their albums

I like the Wild Honey cover a lot. But if I were to pick my favorites, it would be a toss up between Sunflower, 15 Big Ones, or Love You. Sunflower because I love the banner across the top and the feel of it with the boys with their kids. 15 Big Ones, because I like the Olympic style and the name design. Love You, just because I love that type of art work.
Major props to Dean Torrence. The guy gets a bad rap for his treatment of Jan while trying to progress musically before the accident, but no one can deny he is very talented, including in the art department.

[Newguy562]

also wild honey has the best looking cover out of all their albums

I like the Wild Honey cover a lot. But if I were to pick my favorites, it would be a toss up between Sunflower, 15 Big Ones, or Love You. Sunflower because I love the banner across the top and the feel of it with the boys with their kids. 15 Big Ones, because I like the Olympic style and the name design. Love You, just because I love that type of art work.
Major props to Dean Torrence. The guy gets a bad rap for his treatment of Jan while trying to progress musically before the accident, but no one can deny he is very talented, including in the art department.

dean torrence did that cover art? ..and love you has a nice feel 2 it 2..it's one of the only ones without the boyz on it.

[positivemusic]

also wild honey has the best looking cover out of all their albums

I like the Wild Honey cover a lot. But if I were to pick my favorites, it would be a toss up between Sunflower, 15 Big Ones, or Love You. Sunflower because I love the banner across the top and the feel of it with the boys with their kids. 15 Big Ones, because I like the Olympic style and the name design. Love You, just because I love that type of art work.
Major props to Dean Torrence. The guy gets a bad rap for his treatment of Jan while trying to progress musically before the accident, but no one can deny he is very talented, including in the art department.

dean torrence did that cover art? ..and love you has a nice feel 2 it 2..it's one of the only ones without the boyz on it.

Yep, the work of Dean O. Torrence. His work on other album covers is quite impressive, as well.

Surprisingly, almost half their original albums don't feature the boys on the cover including: Surfin' U.S.A., Little Deuce Coupe, Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Live In London, Surf's Up, Carl and The Passions- So Tough, Holland, M.I.U. Album, L.A. (Light Album), The Beach Boys, Still Cruisin', Summer In Paradise, and Stars and Stripes, Vol. 1.
A case could be made for Smile, but since it wasn't released how or when it was originally envisioned, I left that one off. In Concert is also a subjective case since Dennis features on the cover, and even though not a group photo, I didn't include above because of Dennis.

[Mr. Cohen]

...posts from him glorifying the "Wilson/Landy/Alexander" songwriting partnership, the stuff about Manson being the subject of Dennis' "Little Bird," the "Wilson brothers were gay" thread title

1. There's nothing wrong with liking the songwriting from BW 88.
2. The idea of Manson being referenced in "Little Bird" is plausible, although we don't have any hard evidence.
3. Let's just say that Brian's sex life with Marilyn was really weird at times. And Tandyn Almer probably did both of them. Dennis used to talk about how he was once raped/almost raped by some black guys (you think I'm joking? - that tidbit is in one of the more respected Beach Boys bios). Carl was very sensitive. That's all. So who's to say?