The Smiley Smile Message Board

WILD HONEY!

Am I the only one who finds this album to be ten times more interesting than SMiLE (in any form)? I could listen to Wild Honey/Aren't You Glad/Here Comes The Night/A Thing Or Two/Let The Wind Blow etc FOREVER. Those are some psychedelic, happening songs. Brian/Mike at their best! Most ecstatic and carefree! Where did they get so much soul? Bruce becomes God when he plays organ solos. Also, Wild Honey/Wind Chimes is the best A/B ever made! Most psychedelic! I've never heard the sessions for this album, just a few stereo mixes which I did not like at all.

How do you all play the music? I play the mono albums through a Marshall guitar amp. I raise the mids a lot and the gain a little and blast the volume. Incredible experience to hear this album in such a way!

(http://www.sergent.com.au/beachboys/wildhoneyep.jpg)

Top 5 BB album for sure..

But more interesting than SMiLE, What you smoking?  :hat

Great album...but it could've used a couple more songs.

It is more interesting to me! Smile is a hodge podge, Wild Honey is a solid album. I get more enjoyment hearing (Carl?) riffing out on "A Thing Or Two" than I ever did hearing the faux-Gershwin horns on Hero Zen Villains or whatever else from Smile. It has just as much mystery! - Let The Wind Blow!

Wild Honey is even more colorful to me in the sound. It bursts out with confidence. Brian's psychedelic piano playing is everywhere! There is honesty of purpose in virility, such is my love for Wild Honey.

All the other stud bees keep buzzin all round her hive...

I know you've heard me say this before, but ... Wild Honey is my favorite album of all time, by any artist. WH rules!

Most likely. Damn fine album though.

Great, great album. But IMO not psychedelic at all. Actually its quite the opposite. WH is an anti-psychedelic record. WH is a crispy clean pop/soul album with baroque/ garage and folk/jazz elements. If you were to insist in 1967..."I refuse to jump on the psych bandwagon that permeates modern rock"...or "I'm comin' down from a bad trip and i want to get as far away from psych/acid sound as i can"...WH is the statement that one would make. To call it psychedelic is to completely miss what Brian was saying.

While we have a WH topic..

Personally I think the 2 fer sounds terrible, sound wise is that the best out there or is there a better sounding release to buy?

I'm also a W.H. fan but I don't love it as much as Smile! Still an underrated gem. On my mega Beach Boys playlist I have Wild Honey after Smiley Smile. I love hearing both back to back when I'm walking in Huntington Gardens/library in L.A. How can you not be outside L.A. and listen or sing Beach Boys songs?

Adrian

I'd put the albums from Wild Honey thru Holland up at the very top of the BB catalogue, even over Pet Sounds and Smile.

Is that what Brian told you he was "saying" with the album? When I say psychedelic I don't mean as a musical genre but how I hear the sound. To me, that album is psychedelic. It bursts out like an explosion of color & love for life. Wild Honey is not coming down from a bad trip, it's coming up on a good one!

Also - "clean"? This is the raunchiest album I've ever heard!

Probably my favorite BBs-album.
I don't hear anything psychedelic on it. It's more like soul...

It's psychedelic soul in cartoon-consciousness. Brian just got farther & farther far OUT as far as I'm concerned.

I have to admit, when I first heard Wild Honey (the song) on BB Greatest Hits Vol. 2 (20 more good vibrations), I thought it was psychedelic; with that therimin and organ being outta sight and being played right after Heroes and Villains, I totally thought it was psychedelic. But when I got online and read about how the genre of the album is white R&B, I was confused...but listening to Darlin', a thing or Two, Let the Wind Blow, and Here Comes the Night, I realized how R&B influence it was....let alone I was Made to Love Her (which is a fantastic cover by the way). Carl really comes outta his shell of what he truely wanted to say/sing, granted, he was all over Smiley Smile, but someone had to take up the gaunlet. I could still see this being considered: part psychedlic, part R&B, part sunshine pop; which, in my opinion is pretty damn hip after coming off the Smile ride. Let alone that album cover, don't get me started on that!

It sounded "psychedelic" to you as genre-definition? or in how the VIBRANT COLOR OF THE SOUND WOWED YOU INTO GROOVINESS?

How can you hear something one way, and then by reading some words (the Alphabet), hear differently?

It woulda been really awesome to cut out (Good Lord) How She Boogled It and Mama Says, then put in Can't Wait Too Long, what an album closer: the longest cut on the album that really focuses on that former Wind Chimes riff and a vocal workout which is still mind blowing. The instrumental sections could really play out really well as part of Wild Honey; I don't see CWTL being more appropriate than on any other album but WH...then again, it works really well for TLOS (but that's another story for another post).

Always felt like the Beach Boys Motown album to me

Well, I still consider part of it psychedelic, and mostly I was just considering the song of WH, which I heard way before I heard the rest of the album.
I do believe it was the VIBRANT COLOR OF THE SOUND WOWED ME INTO GROOVINESS

When I hear CWTL on TLOS I just think: damn, it sounded so much better before it turned into an aural steam roller.

It is a missed opportunity for the rest of what remains album-less. CWTL as a song is (to me) a part of an era rather than on any albums, but it needed to be on something (along the lines of Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, or So Tough). The song does define Brian just making music to cool down with as Carl or Bruce once said.

Japanese "Pastmasters" (Toshiba/EMI CP21-6013).

If you have vinyl capability, try the mono Capitol green-label reissue from 1981 (Capitol SN-16159).

Bruce Johnston was/is a fantastic organ player.  There's a concert on youtube from '69 in Europe with Bruce on organ and I love it!  Too bad you don't get to see him use those talents on stage anymore!

Can't say I think it's more interesting than Smile. I disagree with your assertion that Smile is a "hodge-podge" but maybe that's because I don't quite understand how you're using the term. To me, Smile has a fairly consistent vision despite all the talk about Brian's confused mindset at the time.

That being said, I think that Wild Honey is very interesting and it's probably my third favourite released BB album after Pet Sounds and Today! As for the psychedelic debate, I think that there's some credibility to that argument. Remember that the line between R&B inspired garage and psyche is pretty thin and it's no surprise that these garage bands that did fuzzed out covers of Otis Redding  songs turned quite easily into bands who wore paisley and sang about pretty flowers. I think that, in many ways, Wild Honey anticipates the scene that brought about songs like "Judy in Disguise", "Midnight Confessions" and "Build Me Up Buttercup" - which, I think, one could argue is when the pop scene grabbed onto psychedelia and turned it into something a bit different by mixing in extra catchiness and soul sensibilities. Sounds like Wild Honey to me.

I always preferred Bruce on organ, and I think Brian did too...unless he's got his baldwin and headed for Hawaii.  ;)

Isn't Bruce on organ or piano for the Sail Plane Song? Well, I guess it's better to say Brian prefers Bruce to be on organ, if he's not participating.

Thanks a lot I'll go dig around for those

Great album, it sure threw me for a loop when I first heard it, but coming after Smiley Smile, it sounded a lot more "normal."  It's part of what my friend and I call the Lo-Fi Trilogy (Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends) which were all under produced on purpose (to neat effect).  At first I was a little annoyed at the production on Wild Honey, but it works - that's just the feel of the album.  I'm listening to it at work now and it's just great.  Puts you in a good mood! ;D

If any album could be called SMiLE, Wild Honey is it!

Wild Honey is quite often my favourite BB record. It's just so uncomplicated and has none of the 'what ifs' of Smile or Pet Sounds' burden of greatness.

I get what you are saying about it being psychedelic although not sure if this is a word I'd use. It think it feels very bright and colourful and bursts with energy like so many psychedelic records, I hear you on that one, although there are no typical psychedelic hallmarks. The picture you posted captures the feel of the album perfectly.

PS. Welcome back, Nobody!

No problem, Shady.

A well-known audio engineer refers to the Pastmasters discs as "flat transfers" from the Capitol masters. I personally think he's full of merda (and ego), but the CD is the best-sounding Wild Honey I've heard. Most of the Pastmasters Beach Boys CD's sound great compared to the 2-fer's, EXCEPT for Pet Sounds, avoid that one.

True dat! 


True dat, too!

Not sure what "flat transfers" means, but they definitely have a superior audio quality to them compared to other sources!

Go to psychedelic music on wiki-It will help you figure out just what this music was and who really made it-They do mention GV as being one of the first to use the theremin-but that's about it for psychedelia from the band during that period. Upon release, WH was not considered psychedelic whatsoever.

According to the page on Psychedelic pop, The Beach Boys made it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_pop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_pop)

Note too that the article on psyche pop basically said exactly what I said about how pop and psyche merged in the late 60s and developed a particular sound as a result:

A "flat transfer" would mean that no additional equalizing, compression or other mastering tools were used for its presentation - what you get is the straight sound off of the existing master tape.*

*Those with much more audio  mastering experience than I can feel free to correct or elaborate.

Personally, the organ solo on the WILD HONEY title track sounds very psychedelic to my ears, but nothing else.

Can't say, I've never heard "Smile".

Just a thought, rather reminiscent of a Zen story...

First I heard Wild Honey and it was all crispy clean soul pop songs. Then I heard Wild Honey and it was an explosion of vibrating sound colors. Now I hear Wild Honey and I hear crispy clean soul pop songs exploding out of the speaker in vibrating sound colors.

Psychedelicize your perceptions, and Wild Honey reveals itself. Then disappears again. POOF!

Pet Sounds  psychedelic? Nope-not a chance-wiki was off on that one-of course GV certainly was. WH  was not in any way psychedelic.

So let me get this straight: you tell us to go look at wikipedia to find out what psychedelic music is and then when we actually do go to wikipedia and find something that you disagree with, the source that you initially gave to prove us wrong suddenly lacks credibility? You have officially given up your right to be taken seriously in this dicussion.

The title track is the only one that sounds psychedelic to me, as well. The organ solo is both psychedelic and funky. Also, that is my understanding of a flat transfer, as per the Hoff at that other board.

I picked up the EMI SVLP 300  album 180 gram and I think it sounds really good. Not sure how it compares to the others  but I was happy with it.

Hi, Nobody. Still a chode?  ::)

From Venezuela, courtesy of EBay, the almost perfect union: 

    (http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww302/bgasnow/wildsmile.jpg)

Thank you!

Yes, it is what Brian told me. He was going for a "compact, less trippy, soul/R&B record." My ears tell me he was moving away from the heavily produced psychedelic/progressive thing, and toward short pop songs with simple production. But if you're not talking about musical genre when you call it psychedelic, then i guess you can call it anything. Call it linoleum or gravel. Let's call it good and agree.

I love Smile and Pet Sounds and much of the early stuff, but I partially agree with Billy 1967-72 is a facinating era. I wouldn't say Wild Honey is better than everything that came before it, but man it is great. Brian and I talked about it and even a little bit about the original LP lineup.

Get this straight, proving anyone wrong wasn't the point, jack. If you r e a d it, (try it slower next time) you'll see that it  does a faily good job at explaining what kind of music it is-and I said that I don't agree that PS or WH  qualify as that brand of music. And, further, you may want to take note that I do agree that GV was part of the genre, so button up RR -if you wanna argue all night, bring it on, Clem. :angry

Took me years until I finally realized how brilliant this record really is. Carl's lead vocals are just incredible, as is the overall low-fi sound/production and of course the passionate organ/piano playing. The lyrics make you wish Brian and Mike would've continued their writing partnership in that particular style a little longer. Let The Wind Blow is every bit as good as anything on Pet Sounds I think.

I agree that the pairing of Wild Honey and Wind Chimes makes for quite a spectacular single... always been a huge fan of the spooky Smiley Smile rendition of Wind Chimes!

Like I said, you entirely forfeited the right to be taken seriously when you made it abundantly clear that you were not prepared to have this discussion in good faith. Your playground tirade that came in lieu of a real response to my post is only further evidence that you are simply unwilling to participate in a rational discussion. Who would want to "argue all night" with someone like that?

Oh, obviously  someone with your mentality and "rationality".

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

EPIC FUCKING WIN!

I may be a ghost but I'm no nobody.

Wow, that's...that's just...wow, I don't know WHAT to say about THAT...!
I WILL say THIS...I used to get a bad head cold once or twice a year...but not since February two years ago, when I listened to the WILD HONEY album almost non-stop.  Could that be the medicine that cured me of the common cold, once & for all?  I don't know, but maybe!  (Or maybe it's because I irrigate my sinuses with saline spray twice a day now, but I choose to believe WILD Honey, the album, had something to do with it as well!).

Interesting. I ordered the Smiley Smile / Wild Honey twofer back in 1999 off of Amazon (could only get an imported copy by the way). The day it arrived I had called into work sick (I had the flu really bad with a temp of over 104 etc.) and I wound up playing the cd anyway. It didn't make me feel better at all. If anything I was seriously considering the fact that I had just been ripped off. It took a few more listens to really appreciate it and it wasn't really until I was over the flu that I started playing it continuously for weeks. Lo fi music is not very good for the flu but a later time I was sick I wound up watching some early seasons of Spongebob which actually was about all that I could handle without throwing up.

Cut the sh*t.


I think Pet Sounds and Smile are 'better' but prefer listening to WH thru Holland. Kinda hard to explain, really, I just do.

I understand that perfectly, because I'm the same exact way.  ;D

I agree except for me it's Smiley Smile through In Concert. I also bust out Love You and Light Album a lot. I love to show people Pet Sounds and SMiLE if they have never heard them before.

Actually the 2 cds I play the most (in my car for instance) are Carl & The Passions So Tough and Heroes & Villains Sessions Vol 2 (which means I think I can get into that boxed set if you know what I mean!).

Since it is on-topic, I'll say my favorites on WH are "Aren't You Glad", "Darlin'", "Let The Wind Blow", "Country Air" and "Here Comes The Night". "A Thing Or Two" gets on my nerves in a way that only "Gettin' Hungry" matches. "Boogalood" should self-explode. I don't like Carl's voice on the title track. Other great tracks were made around this time ("Can't Wait Too Long", "Time To Get Alone", etc.) but instead we get "Mama Says" which is technically brilliant but probably got laughed at in the time it was released (late '67). Maybe Brian really DID need to just chill out and let his brothers write and produce more at the time.

I don't believe that something has to be highly produced in the vain of Smile to be psychadelic. Smiley Smile is perhaps the most psychadelic album the BBs ever did, but it was also very raw. I don't think WH is overall psychadelic, but the title track is, and Let the Wind Blow to me. In my personal WH mix, I added the early Good Vibrations with Asher's lyrics. It fits in well!

My personal Wild Honey album:

1. Wild Honey
2. Gettin Hungry
3. Country Air
4. How She Boogalood It
5. Transcendental Meditation (I know it came later but I like the way it fits)
6. Whistle In
7. Good Vibrations (early take)
8. Darlin
9. Aren't You Glad
10. Here Comes the Night
11. Let the Wind Blow
12. A Thing or Two
13. Can't Wait Too Long

Recently, Smiley, WH, Friends and Love You have been my favorite BBs albums. I love the simplistic, yet brilliant arrangements. Let the Wind Blow and Country Air are two songs I have been really into lately.

Wild Honey, the song itself, is a really good song. It's just to bad that Carl wasn't a few years older than when he sang it. It seems as though the notes are right at Carl's "breaking point". As a result, it kind of sounds like a kid having a temper tantrum.  ;D

Right I understand that. Myself I play all the 1963-73 stuff the most, but I have to be in a mood for something like Pet Sounds as great as it is. Wild Honey, Sunflower, Today, those I can play anytime.

The word "psychedelic" is dumb, especially to describe music. Use other words instead imo.

My personal WILD HONEY album consists of stereo mixes for all but three of the songs, with "Mama Says" deleted and "The Letter" and "Can't Wait" tacked on the end.  That, my friends is a near perfect album!  (Perfect would be all stereo!)

Psychedelic is Electric Prunes' "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night" or Strawberry Alarm Clock's "Incense and Peppermints" .   WH doesn't sound anything like that!

Why do you guys baleet tracks. Why. It's "Mama Says". It's not the 40 minute bull sessions with large father. At its very worst, it's inoffensive.

Not everyone is as straight edge as you, Ryan.

I think I must be the only person on this board that doesn't like Wild Honey, I must have listened to it 30 or more times and I simply don't get the fascination with it, to me it sounds lazy and like a demo. I do like Darlin', Country Air and Mama Says but that's it - songs like A Thing Or To and How She Boogaloed it make me cringe.

My personal, PERFECT Wild Honey would be:

1. Wild Honey
2. Aren't You Glad
3. I Was Made To Love Her
4. Country Air
5. A Thing Or Two
6. Darlin
7. I'd Love Just Once To See You
8. Here Comes The Night
9. Let The Wind Blow
10. How She Boogalooed It
11. Mama Says

So............the Wild Honey album in stereo. I've heard one fan mix in particular that is very good. Another guy did pretty good stereo versions of "Darlin' And Wild Honey". If we were to compile a true stereo version of the entire Wild Honey album, what tracks have already been released that we could start with? "Let The Wind Blow" is one.

And what's the reason again that a stereo version of the Wild Honey couldn't be mixed and released? Multi-tracks are missing, vocals were recorded on the fly, what? I think Alan Boyd touched on this once.

Anybody?

(http://knowyourmeme.com/i/681/original/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg)

Hey, that kinda looks like Christine McVie!

Can I just thank Mikie for making me aware of fan stereo mixes of Wild Honey..

I'm in heaven right now  ;D

Same here, my one problem with Wild Honey has been it sounds so flat when I listen to it.

Shady, when's the Smile box coming out?

Less than 2 months

October 4th  ;D

Thank you, Shady!   Whew, I can't wait!!!

With "Can't Wait Too Long" and "Time To Get Alone" being Wild Honey era tracks what are some other songs  that didn't get put on the album?

The Letter, Game Of Love, Lonely Days, Honey Get Home, and maaaaybe Cool, Cool Water was considered. Hawthorne Boulavard was another maybe, but was more of a "Lei'd In Hawaii" track.

I actually fully intended to put..... IN STEREO at the end of that, but got side tracked trying to remember the song sequence for Wild Honey without consulting the intranets or my vinyl copy sitting a mere 4 feet away

Didn't mean to come off as a condescending ass  :p

I agree with both of these sentiments!  Pastmasters, good!  That audio engineer, dishonest and not trustworthy at all.

Only on the internet would people with a common love and interest for Wild Honey be this ugly towards each other.

While the songwriting on Wild Honey was to a fairly high standard, the production, performances and the mixing especially on the backing vocals are pretty shoddy.

That mono production is just really stifling.  There are so many layers just struggling to stretch out and breathe.  A stereo mix would give this album a whole new dimension!

I agree 100%

While, being a massive Beach Boys nerd, of course, the rough hewn production has some charm, but for the general record buying public: I think a stereo pressing would have turned even more people onto the album.

I especially feel this to be the case with Smiley Smile.

Go and listen to the (extended) version of Vegetables on Hawthorne California and then go put on the SS version right after.

The differences (aside from the killer extended middle section) are astounding to my ears. The HC version just leaps out of the speakers and it so atmospheric and cool and the increased vocal separation causes the harmonies to be even more impressive. The whole things just SOUNDS cool!

If the original album had been in stereo, I think it's reputation might have been elevated quite a bit.

For hi-fi dudes in 1967 (many of whom were BBs fans, I'd imagine. Oldsurferdude would be able to weigh in, Im sure) I can easily envision the album just sounding flat and boring to them when they slapped it on the turntable right after listening to something like Sgt. Pepper.

Am I the only one here that wasn't all that impressed with the stereo mix of "Let The Wind Blow"? Sure, it sounded clearer and had better sound quality, but the whole "essence" got taken out in the process. It doesn't matter how "clear" something is. If it has the guts taken out, it's not worth anything. This might have sounded harsh, but it's just my opinion. The stereo mix of "Country Air" was much better though. Still, I'm cautious of a full stereo mix of the album.

It would only be as an extra/bonus/alternative thing for us nerds and the random curiosity seekers.

No fan's or Capitol Records stereo Wild Honey would ever replace the one we all know and love.

It's just a stupid word. Nothin' to do with DRUUUUUUGS.

"AW YEAAHAH PSYCHEDLIIIIIIC."

Also, making fun of me by name and describing me as "straight edge" means you're either Ben Hogan or my friend John. :o

That was me alright. Beatles, Doors, Byrds, Hell just about everyone had better sounding records back then. You had to totally worship the music first just to get through the horrible sound after All Summer Long and Today. Then came SDASN, Party and PS with their destructive Duophonic sound machine(kinda like M. Luhv's hit machine ;). Back then I wondered what the problem could be-no one knew about the hearing problem. I agree somewhat with the sales issue-but also remember that not everyone(especially people our age) did not have their own stereos yet. I bought my first one from JC Penney's in 1967.

P.S. I just can't get into "Country Air" and "A Thing or Two" overall. Not terrible, but more "meh" than most other 67-73 material.

That part in Country Air where someone yells "Come On!" (Who does yell this? Anyone know?) right before the chorus - one of my favorite BB moments. I'll agree about A Thing Or Two, though...very much "meh" material.

DO IT RIGHT BABY!
OUTTA SIGHT BABY!

Come on Ryry, this song is GROOVY!!!

When I see my BABY
When I see my LITTLE GIRL
I'M GONNA TELL HER BOUT THE LONELY HOURS I JUST SPENT...

Gosh Darn!!! What a cool song!!!!

Country Air is amazing too. Blast it. GET A BREATH OF THAT COUNTRY AIR, FEEL THE BEAUTY OF IT EVERYWHERE!!! Cosmic stuff!!! A big part of mystical enlightenment is profound ecological awareness as anyone who has tripped on mushrooms or LSD or any such thing in a nice natural place knows.

This thread sparks a lot of memories. Please indulge me... I remember hearing the Wild Honey lp at the end of 1967.  I was 13 years old.  Even though I lived in an affluent area near DC,  I only knew one person who had a component stereo system- homemade Heathkit tube amp and AR speakers.  This was the time when stereo was getting more widespread, and I remember being really impressed with the Airplane's "After Bathing at Baxters" in stereo- I became more interested in audiophile things after hearing that. The rest of us had our parents console stereos of the day, and they were mid-fi at best.  The first copy of Wild Honey I heard was the stereo pressing- which is bass/treble rechannelled.  From across the room it didn't sound too bad, but I remember wondering why it sounded so dry and underproduced compared to H & V (I hadn't heard Smiley Smile yet). I liked most of the songs, and loved the pounding bass,  but it was so different from all the psychedelic stuff that everyone was buying.  When I heard Dylan's "John Wesley Harding" a month later everyone said Dylan's leading the way back to basics but you weren't allowed to say the Beach Boys were ahead of that pop game, things were starting to get Stalinist then- clear lines between the hip and unhip.  I don't remember what most of my friends thought about Wild Honey sound wise but more than a couple had this record, it was played a lot. None of then bought "Friends"- I think the group's exile was complete by then (I didn't buy it either until a couple of years later, but I did like the 45 of "Friends" and bought that).  My girlfriend liked "Darlin" and I remember girls in the neighborhood dancing to it off the radio. And "I'd Love Just Once To See You" had instant notoriety-  I remember hearing teenage boys singing that last line to girls to see what sort of reaction they would get...and most people thought the background vocals on "I Was Made To Lover Her" said "...you son of a bitch I love her".

Hey those are some cool memories! Hmm, singing "I'd Love Just Once To See You" to girls. I think I have a new pick-up technique!

Hey baby, when's the last time you baked me a pie? It's time for you to take a ride. I mean, drive. Dig.

Btw, this album became an instant classic as soon as the lyric "With all the other stud bees buzzin' all round her hive, she singled me out..." was conceived.

Is this a Mike Love lyric? If so - genius.

That's funny. My dad who was about 20 years old when Wild Honey came out still swears that he can hear "you son of a bitch" in the background vocals in I Was Made To Love Her. Personally, I cannot fathom how ANYONE can hear that. Clearly, though, this must have been something in wide circulation during the late 60s. I'd be curious if anyone else knows the story behind that. How did this rumour start? And how on earth could people hear that?

I Was Made To Love Her is so far out, so psychedelic, so funky that it just blew every mind that heard it. It blows mine every time I hear it. And I do mean the version by The Beach Boys. Stevie Wonder is a larval still. Brian gave Stevie Wonder part of his astral body so that he could operate transdimensionally outside of The Beach Boys for some of his experimental music. When he saw that Stevie had some success Brian decided (like with Darlin) to take it back into The Beach Boys fold. And rightly so - for Carl Wilson is God. His voice on that song is the most enthusiastic youthful vibrant sound I have ever heard in my life. I LOVE Carl's voice on this album! The track itself has a great, great groove.

Thanks for the call.

Now we go to Lexington, Kentucky...

Speaking earlier about Past Masters: I like most of them a lot but they are a "warts & all" experience as that unnamed engineer says. On mine Country Air has some heavy distortion going on. It sounds like maybe the organ was the cause. Any else notice this?

You mean the tearing sound? Isn't that on all versions? Says in the two-fer book it's on the master, but you know what all those two-fer books are like (with the exception of the KTSA/85 one  :angel: )

Yeah, that's a good description of the sound. I need to compare it to the 2-fer - I never noticed it before.

There's a poster on the Hoffman board who takes every opportunity to try to convince people that Smile would have only been 28 minutes, or something like that.  I get the sense that he's really just f***ing with the board, to see whether he can get other people repeating what he says if he just posts it often enough.

This guy is almost certainly doing the same thing.  He figured it would be fun to take essentially an anti-psychedelic album and argue repeatedly that it is in fact psychedelic, then come back a few months later to see if he was able to take anyone in.

Anyone else here really dig the live version of Wild Honey with Blondie lead vox?? I think he really cooks on this tune in particular.....shame I've never heard a clean version of this track done live with Blondie, but alas BB bootlegs from the time aren't renowned for fidelity

Man, Wild Honey with Blondie is INSANE. He tore the roof off with that number, wish they'd put it as the opening of In Concert....

It's such a weird, groovy little album. Exactly the sort of thing you can imagine some dudes and some beers making in a long hot summer.

Blondie's live performances are ok if you like screaming vocals. It is definitely energetic.

Getting back to I Was Made, does anyone know why on Earth they didn't use that wonderful tag in the released version?  That was so well done...I mean, the song is not complete without it, IMHO.  And they scrapped it.  Great cover, either way, though.

Jeff,

What boring world do you live in where Wild Honey is not psychedelic? Don't invite me over for a smoke any time soon, \\\.

By the way was reading a book recently. Turns out Wild Honey was on frequent play at Spahn Ranch in the Outlaw Shacks i.e., among the Manson family.

Yeah, I read Manson loved it, Jim Morrison too

I think this is more of a combination tourette's syndrome and narcissistic disorder that disables one's ability to actually recognize and/or admit a severe miscalculation of the true aesthetic of a great piece of art. Knowing, as most of us do, that Wild Honey was, in the context of its 1967 release, an absolute and calculated anti-psychelic statement, the poster continues to insist that black is white because they are not interested in facts or history, but instead feel a need to be noticed and excused by anyone who can find a tiny morsel of the tenuously spun possibility of a trace of validity in the reasoning of the poster's insistence on labeling something that it is most definitely not.

Charlie dug Wild Honey? I wasn't aware of that.

I wouldn't say the performances are shoddy, but other than that I agree with you. When I first listened to it I thought it's okay, but not great. I think it is the bad sound they got from the home studio equipment and suboptimal production technique. This occured to me when I listened to the live "Aren't You Glad" from the Live In London LP. Listen to that and then to the studio version. The studio version sounds muffled, and the chorus has absolutely no impact there. The live version hints at what this album could have been like if they had still used professional studios. "Darlin'" and "Wild Honey" would have sounded just as good as "Help me, Rhonda", Sloop John B." and "Wouldn't It Be Nice".

And BTW, my favorite songs on Wild Honey are "Darlin'", "Wild Honey", "I'd Love Just Once To See You", and "How I Boogalooed It".

The modular approach doesn't really work with IWMTLH, imo The edit on Rarities is so jarring that it completely upsets the song.

I think this buzzing sound was discussed here before. Isn't it just some problem with the organ? I always assumed it was a bit of musique concrete, evoking the buzzing bee from the cover, but I think it's just part of the slapdash, warts and all charm of the album.

I think someone just tacked that section on to the end of the song for Rarities. That piece would have sounded much better as a bridge like on the Stevie Wonder version. Someone on the Net did a mix doing just that, and it fits much better.

Look, doc, I've already explained that I am NOT using the word "psychedelic" like you. I am NOT talking about the music scene that they may or may not have been going against. I am talking about the psychedelic PERCEPTION of the music.

And all the proof I need is in my own experiencing of it. Your self-limiting definitions are your own cross to bear, not mine.

if we're going to get into this argument about words, let me just say - "as if"!

Also I think I already mentioned this - if I hear Wild Honey and it's all vibrant color songs, bursting with life and enlightened amusement at life, but someone else hears it as crappy little pop songs - who is really better off? I embrace it & love it, the other dude neglects & hates it. When I first heard the album it didn't have as much appeal. Some time later, it revealed itself. Wild Honey exists beyond the record and the tape and the CD. It's in my brain. It's in my mind. I can just think of it and it's there. I hear it in my head. Wherever I am, I can tune into the Wilson/Love raunchy tunes.

I think the worst case of editing was on Smiley Smile's "Gettin' Hungry". Way too jarring!

To each his own!

I once took acid and listened to the Surf's Up album over and over, and to me, it was THE psychedelic album for all-ages.

Maybe we should all give Summer In Paradise another listen!!!

Surf's Up has such abominations as Student Demonstration Time and Lookin' At Tomorrow though... they bring me right out any good buzz I've got going. I want to hear Brian turning into a tree, not Mike Love with a megaphone.

So, Jon Stebbins authoritatively knows that Wild Honey was a calculated anti-psychedelic statement? And whom, pray tell, told him this? Brian? Carl? Mike? Dennis? Al? I'm going to guess no on all 5 accounts.

Now, was Wild Honey deliberately Motown/R&B influenced? Yes. Mike Love says as much, claiming that Brian thought of it as his R&B album. Was it deliberately anti-psychedelic? I'll bet you five screaming theremins on the title track that it wasn't. Of course, I'm no authority on the matter. All I know was that Brian certainly was still doing a lot of "interesting" things musically.

Take "Darlin'", for example. It's a straight R&B track, right? Yep, txcept they'll be those weird moments where you'll hear, say, a heavily reverbed horn low in the mix, which is then doubled by a heavily reverbed vocal that's also low in the mix (starting listening closely about 57 seconds into the song). Eventually, it gets to the point that you can't even distinguish the two from each other. Those are the same kind of tricks Brian was pulling on songs like "Wind Chimes" (check the bridge) a year earlier. It's the same Brian, man.

Wild Honey wasn't an attempt to be a psychedelic, but I don't think Brian was shying away from psychedelic influences if he was feeling it. The closing track is "Mama Says" from Smile's "Vegetables", right?

Exactly-it was a return to basics for Brian-some of the  reviews for the album basically agreed.

Brian said anything that's happening is psychedelic. Wild Honey wasn't happening. Ergo, it's not psychedelic.

Q, E and... what's that other one ?  Oh yeah - D.  :)

It got to number 24 in the US charts.

The Zombies Odyssey and Oracle got to about number 90.

Which was the more happening?  :p

And Wild Honey charted higher than Smiley Smile.

Let The Moon Glow is back to basics? Sounds like Brian Wilson progressing as a songwriter to me. And Mike Love.

I love Wild Honey so much. It’s an album on the verge of exploding, it’s so full of energy. All the songs are great and it works so well as an album. If i had to single out one song, it would be Aren’t You Glad, that song is heaven. I even LOVE How She Boogalooed It. Don’t get why that song is so hated (then again, one of my favorite BB songs of all time is Take A Load Off Your Feet) .Carl’s vocals on this album are the last time he sang to my liking, which is sad, but at the same time, makes all his leads that much better to me. 

Question: does anyone know what in the world is going on in the first four bars of the organ solo on the title track? How was this sound achieved? It sounds as if the organ is threatening to self destruct itself by implosion. Then Bruce just casually knocks off the best solo of his life.

Wild Honey is glorious.

Oh, that's just Bruce blowing your mind sky high. Rumor has it he had a J dangling from his lips while playing that trippy little number.

how any Beach Boy fan cannot LOVE "A Thing Or Two" is beyond me. it's whiteboy R&B at its finest, and so damn funky for the Boys at that time. that bassline is the flipping shiz!!!


anything can be psychedelic when you're high maaaaaan, and it WAS 1967 after all.
the album certainly has some psychedelic influence. The title track's theremin and organ solo are trippy as f*ck.
Country Air and Let The Wind Blow have what could be called a psychedelic element.

but mostly, this is the Beach Boys getting back to the garage and their roots. Stripping things down, playing sounds they dig, and sounding like they're having a hell of a lot of fun doing it. Being a "group" again. Guitars, organs, and heaps of Wilson soul.

It's the premiere of Carl 'Mad Dog' Wilson's "scream, bark, and growl" vocal stylings. who knew he could belt it out like THAT?!!! sure, he's straining at times... but what a killer performance overall. The album is kind of like 'Carl & The Passions, vol. 1'. There weren't too many white dudes singing like this at the time, and how many had the balls to cover something like "I Was Made To Love Her"??!!! I guarantee you that NOBODY was expecting the freakin' BEACH BOYS to pull it off.

"I'd Love Just Once To See You" is the first in a number of Brian tunes that are just so quirky and so BRIAN. Totally un-self conscious and uncommercial, but catchy and funny (like Busy Doin Nothin, Games Two Can Play, I Went To Sleep, etc). These songs also reveal Brian's increasing tendency to withdraw and stay at home, but the fact that he stopped caring so much about writing hits and just wrote whatever the hell he felt like shows real growth and freedom as an artist. There's a cozy contentment in those tunes.

I am crazy about this album... especially Aren't You Glad, A Thing or Two, ILJOTSY, and Here Comes The Night.

I agree that Can't Wait Too Long would have made a much better album closer. Mama Says should have been on Smiley Smile (or SMiLE) where it belonged... as part of Vegetables.

Back in the, um, day, uh, Wild Honey, the single, survived airplay for about 3 weeks. Darlin, on the other hand, lived a more fruitful life on the airwaves. It was encouraging to see them "back".

Wild Honey is my all time all place BB lp. I can listen to it in all moods and circumstances. There are just so many Brian/Mike tunes that exceed the norm, even for The Beach Boys. Every band should have one album where the just wail like the BBs do on this Album....another album with subtleties that you don`t hear until you deconstruct them.

Yeahh!!!

I prefer their version. Especially since it's practically impossible to hear Stevie's version in mono anymore... who wants to hear that piece of sh*t stereo mix at ANY time? Give me the psychedelic Beach Boys version any day.

I just can't get into it dude, I have tried and tried but the album, and the highlighted song in particular, just annoy me. Also, what I am going to term the 'all pervading, clanging kinda-out-of-tune piano sound' really gets to me! I'm not trying to be different or controversial here, this is just my opinion.

Wow Peter that really was spot on!

Just so it happens those are my favorite tunes on that album along with A Day In The Life Of A Tree...

Back to WH: The start of How She Boogalooed It sounds weird, like the tape started slow during mixdown. Anyone know anything about that?

And a grand piano would have been better for the overall sound, IMHO too.

You... like... Student Demonstration Time?  ???

Well... let's say I dislike it less than the rest of the album. After the schmaltzy Disney Girls it sounds pleasantly edgy. I know a lot of people hate it, but maybe you can teach me why I should dislike it?

I like Sdt too. The lyrics are bad, but Mike sings them with a lot of real fire. Add Dennis' hardest playing ever, and for me it's fine as it was of its era.

I might like Wild Honey better if it were in stereo

Bruce didn't take drugs. This has been firmly established.
To Hell with the lyrics, STD rocks!

...agree. WH is, to put it mildly, under-produced. It is in poor mono and the sound is out of balance all the way through. Mono in itself can be awesome, think old Motown; pure, punchy pop. But WH doesn't come near that by a couple of lightyears. In WH's title track, it is as if Carl and that, um, geriatric organ are striving way too hard to claim the forefront, without really succeeding. The bongos sound even more out of breath, and telephoned from Mars or something like that.

But there's fine material on it. All in all, a missed opportunity.

The piano MAKES the album, man!!!

And what is with all the hate on Carl? Doesn't anyone hear these songs and feel joy? Why do we have to put everything down? Oh Carl's vocal on Wild Honey, totally strained. What a loser. What was he, 15? Trying to outdo those black guys? Yeah right. Carl you chubby little bastard, should've stayed home that day.

I'd like to know how to get the Smile/Wild Honey sound on a piano. It's pretty much the best instrument the Boy Beaches have second to their own voices.

Umm....he is no longer with us.

The Little Girl I Once Knew about 1:35mins in - foreshadowing Darlin a few years later. Dig it? When the song gets REALLY cool - it peaks into Wild Honey psychedelia. Dig? Jon, you out there?

I so agree. Although, I have to say love the extended version from Rarities with the extra harmony acapella, a Lil something extra for an extraordinary cover such as this one!

Brian Wilson said he was going for the white spiritual sound. By the way, have you noticed how we all strangely refer to him like this many times? We all know who "Brian" usually stands for round here yet continue to say Wilson. Anyway - Brian wanted to start a race war after hearing Helter Skelter so he released I Wasn't Made To Love Her to show the blacks who's best.

ghost. you are a little off your rocker, but you are one funny motherfucker! ;)

I was watching High Fidelity last night, great Movie with John Cusack and Jack Black..

In one scene the Wild Honey album cover makes an appearance, along with Endless Summer I think..

Nice to see Wild Honey getting some love in a major movie 

Nice theory, but I believe that I Wasn't Made to Love Her came out before Helter Skelter.

Nice theory, but time does not exist.

Hmmm....thus the song Cease to Exist?

??? I didn't read that much negativity towards Carl on this thread. They all sing as good as always. Well, better if you count in the period from 1976 on!  >:D

Exactly when you cease to exist as a self-perpetuating thought continuum of "I"-centric perspectival biases, time which is but the pitiful attempt of the nervous system to fragment the universal fire [think, Heraclitus (have to love a man whose name reminds you of a woman's kitten)] in past, present, future to maintain the structure of egoity. When you cease to exist in the prior explained manner, time also ceases to exist in the old way. You merge into ever re-occuring nowness. There are no reference points - there is no past, no present, no future. All your concepts are illusions - abstractions of psychedelic chaos & space-voidness.

Hey Charlie, has somebody smuggled another Blackberry up his arse into your cell again?

I know a brotha on the mainline who can get me the Smile Sessions right now. Goes by the name of Spector. It'll cost you though...

http://youtu.be/hgXlHWF3_Go

Ghost, are you a charactor from this movie?

No need to be that harsh man.

I am of two minds on 'Wild Honey'.

First, it is a great collection of songs with 'Darlin', WH and 'Let the Wind Blow' being the stand outs.

On the other hand I have never cared for the production.  For an attempt at an R&B sound it is too laid back (except for WH and 'I was Made to Love Her' which get their drove from Carl's vocals more than anything else).

the quality songs of the songs comes through in the live recordings of the songs, which are, without exception, a vast improvement over the studio versions.  "Aren't You Glad" from 'Live in London' should have been released as a single.  I have always thought it was that good.

I definitely would like Wild Honey better if it were in stereo. Do the multi-tracks for WH and Aren't You Glad still exist? I hope so... they're the best tracks on the album, discounting Let The Wind Blow.

...which nicely reflects my feelings, partially that is. The production takes away a lot of potential as to a really R&B-driven sound. Did I say 'production'? In reality, it is in shoddy mono, without any sense of balance. WH as we know it sounds like a bunch of demos, unproduced demos, meagre first attempts at doing material with truly great potential. It has firmly distorted bass and a very limited top end. The hand drumming was probably glued in as an afterthought, and recorded in a phone cell at the other end of the world.

Sorry to come over all harsh. I wouldn't devote a word to it if I found the songs themselves bad. But I love them (with the exception of How She). And yes, the live recordings reveal the greatness inherent in the songs.

I think its perfectly OK to wish the album were in stereo and to have our feelings about the mono mix.

We obviously can't say enough about the songs (most of them) the vocals and the performances (mostly)...... therefore, I hardly think we're splitting hairs here by wishing the dang thing simply sounded better. it is an AUDIO RECORDING after all!

I happen to really really wish Ringo hadn't used put that damn towel over his snare drum Sgt Pepper onward! Sure, it gave his playing extra character, but, it still sounded like he was beating a cardboard box! ..... Then again, I also happen to believe those early Beatle album had THE best drum sound of all-time!

Love mono, love the mix. The compression is killer.

The sound of Ringo's drums after 1965 are one of my favorite things about El Beetels.

It's straight up blasphemy to want this album in stereo [duality, the devil]. It would fall apart since some of the tracks are pretty austere. Mono is the glue holding it together. In mono it exists singularly dimensionally - you can pick it up and put it in your pocket. In mono, there are no distinctions between one thing and another really. They're all coming out of the same god-center. Brian knew this hence his multilayer of different instruments in his productions. It's all one, dig.

I like your style of argument

Love Wild Honey - I wouldn't change a thing.  It's rawness is like a freshly picked scab - gross but satisfying.

The final four Capitol records (Smiley to 20/20) are my favourites.  So much variety!

Thought as much. Cheers for that.

sucha strange combination yet fascinating :) wat songs are on it?

well first off..the cover art 4 it is better den any other bb album cover..and the low quality sounds on it gives it a dirty sound lol idk how 2 explain it but it's very interesting :)

Is ghost/nobody back?

Incredibly insulting to ghost imo.

Nothing psychedelic about the album in any form. Just a great album done in the way Sam Phillips (of SUN Records) would've recorded it

wild honey (song) sounds psychadelic.. thats about it.

I think so, least we got the trolls to leave during the awesome SMiLE release week.

Sam Phillips actually making an album with the group sounds awesome.

Unfortunately it's too late.

One can only dream of the awesomeness. I miss those old labels like Sun and Chess records.

I know I'm going rub people up the wrong way on this but whilst I really like Wild Honey, I dislike the title track. Carl vocals are scratchy and are grating to the ears. Its hard to believe it's the same  Carl that sang God Only Knows or even Cabinessence.

There's a Top 30 Beach Boys' songs thread in action at the moment, and I'm making the effort to keep score on an aggregated best-of list. At the moment the only song from Wild Honey is Darlin', which is hanging on at #28. My own favourite, Let The Wind Blow, is currently just outside the Top 30. Perhaps this thread's Wild Honey enthusiasts might like to drop by and give the album some love.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,9812.50.html

The 2000 twofer sounds a lot better than the 1990 one.

Since they found this new version of "Surf's Up" on the Wild Honey tapes, one wonders what's took them to those tapes.  A re-release????

I believe it was said a stereo mix was being prepared, but there were no plans for a release (at least not anytime soon). I would guess things are just being archived right now.

Lol, it's ridiculous to say Wild Honey doesn't have a psychedelic influence, or even psychedelic elements in it. Anyone with a pair of ears and can hear that.
Also, nice to see ghost is back, that guy is both funny and has some good opinions.

umm ill believe my best friend ghost is back when theres some moog talk

If newguy is ghost, that proves that he's just a troll. I like to think ghost was a genuine poster with a questionable sense of humor.

Capital did announce that more commemorative releases were coming.  No details yet.  Based on what their doing with Pink Floyd (well, EMI), and the superlative sales for Smile, I'm betting we'll see a new WH release in 2012.

Maybe to  your ears and that's fine-WH wasn't psy when it was released and it's not now or ever will be to me. It was Brian's return to simplicity at the time according to the rock press. Generally straightforward tunes. What would you classify as psy on the album? :)

idk who ghost.. is maybe it's an inside joke between all of yall.

I'm not saying the album is psychedelic per se, but that it most definitely has psychedelic elements. For instance the use of reverb and compression on some of the songs, the use of theremins and mellotron, things like that. It's the same with 'Odessey and Oracle', it's not psychedelic in the same way as 'Aoxomoxoa' or 'Piper at the Gates of Dawn' (which obviously are psychedelic in two different ways) but it certainly has psychedelic elements.

In fact, Allmusic states that WH is a combination of Contemporary Pop/Rock, AM Pop, Sunshine Pop, Psychedelic, Psychedelic Pop.
http://www.allmusic.com/album/wild-honey-r1423

I agree.

Well, here you're definitely playing dumb because the guy's name is at the top of this thread and you see it everytime you click on it.

Then you never really listened to 50s R'n'B, etc., did you ? The only psychedeic thing about Wild Honey is Bruce's organ solo and even that could be discussed. Influence is another prospect but musicalley there's (almost) nothing psychedelic in the whole album

The Wild Honey disc in my 70's vinyl two-fer with 20/20 sounds pretty dang good!

I never thought about it before. "I'd love just to once see you" is like the original indiepop. It sounds exactly like early Death Cab for Cutie and Pavement.

Um, sure i have, but you are still wrong. See my post above.

Yep, and it is Fake Stereo too. Probably why they split those two releases the way they did. SS (FS)/ Friends (ST), WH (FS)/20/20 (ST).

what Death Cab or Pavement song sounds like "I'd Love Just Once to See You"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNzY33S_jA

yeah i like the song a lot, i don't like his vocals.

It always bothers me when people draw these delineations to argue that BW abandoned psychedelia after Smiley Smile, and that Wild Honey is not a psychedelic record
I would maintain that once BW's music cracked into that impressionistic dimension sometime in 65, it remained psychedelic for a long time; just in increasingly subtle and homespun ways.
lyrically? not always. but musically? hell yeah!

psychedelic aspects on wild honey, off the top of my head:

"Wild Honey" the overall sound of the track, the wailing theremins and distant organs, and the stop and start rhythm, it's a very trippy song
"Aren't You Glad" the distant and yet burning tone of the horns, the way the organ buzz piles up, the weird edits between the verses and choruses
"I Was Made to Love Her" again, the overall sound of this thing, that fat bass just locked in with the low piano, while the tambourine and organ (?) hold up the high end, granted these are subjective analyses but i hear something very psychedelic indeed
"Country Air" should be so obvious. the way bruce's high vocal melts into that rooster. that burning organ buzz again, this time threatening to envelop everything. the weird verses that are almost free-form, whistle scat vocals. this song feels like a more controlled 'smiley smile' experiment
"A Thing or Two" one of the trippest songs on the album! the bizarro structure, the way some lines just end really early leaving weird stray guitar notes hanging by themselves in the ether, and then the hard edits into those choruses! The sound of that chorus is one of the fattest ever, that organ just envelops you and the piano/bass syncopated line is just wild
"Darlin" probably the least psychedelic piece on the album and perhaps as a result has always been my least favorite. beautiful song though and that "every night" bridge is as lovely as anything he ever wrote, and again scratching at that heart-rending impressionistic vein he could do so well
"I'd Love Just Once to See You" the overall cathedral like ambience, oddly juxtaposed against such a mundane concept and lyric. the weird hard edit at the end that drops a beat. the sudden fade just as the song feels like its opening up. all very psychedelic touches.
"Here Comes the Night" the intensity with which the choruses ascend up and down the chords, also that thick organ again that just renders your brain to mush. the hypnotic repetition.
"Let the Wind Blow" should be so obvious i'm not even gonna waste my energy. the most psychedelic thing on here.
"How She Boogalooed It" is just a silly song but with a lot of great period details!
"Mama Says" is obviously very psychedelic.

To argue that "Wild Honey" is "JUST" an R&B album is reductionist and oversimplistic in my opinion. Yes, BW was clearly trying to bring the band back to that raw emotion, screaming vocals around a pounded piano thing. but there was no going back from what he had learned. and these impressionistic masterstrokes are all over the record

Of all the Beach Boys songs that I initially didn't care for but now love, Wild Honey is near the top.  I still would love to hear a better mix (it always had a sound like there was a pillow over the speakers) and in stereo.  But I really like Carl's over the top, going beyond his range vocals.  It's a fun little song.  The theremin is vintage 1967, the cheesy organ solo is priceless, and the whole vibe of the song gets you moving.  I have never heard or seen it live, but I would think it would go over well if the singer could handle it.

And I agree with linusoli's breakdown of the tracks.  Wild Honey definitely has a bit of 1967 psychedelia all over the album!  Definitely toned down after Smiley Smile of course!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRbBPhodF4Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRbBPhodF4Q)

I don't find that organ solo cheesy. If anything, it is very funky, and I miss it every time I listen to a a stereo mix of the song. The Wild Honey album is a nice mix of many influences. Trying to pin it down to just one main one just doesn't do the album justice.

Well said! :)

I just listened to the Hawthorne, CA Stereo mix of "Let The Wind Blow" let me just say, I'm 100% on board for a Stereo (and 5.1) remix of this album now :D

Do we know what issues there are for doing a stereo mix of Wild Honey? Things like mono overdubs, like the organ solo on the title track, etc.?

Well, there is always the singer-songwriter Leslie "Sam" Phillips...I beleive VDP did some arrangements on one of her albums.

"The Rolling Stone Record Review, published in 1971 by Pocket Books, features a review of WH, Friends, and Sunflower. I would also suggest Outlaw Blues by Paul Williams, published by E.P. Dutton in 1969 which features a complete chapter Called Brian-A Celebration of Wild Honey and the Tradgedy of Smile. It would be an interesting read for both of you. It helps to explain what was going on with Brians's head at the time and how WH was a complete turnaround for him in his writing. While you feel that there are "psychedelic" twinges in WH is perfectly acceptable, and I'm quite sure that we could find them in anything from that era if you tried hard enough. But, I will say that when it was released, it was not perceived by the record buying public as psychedelic by any stretch of the imagination-not even on weed.

The only  psychedelic thing about wild honey is -Let The Wind Blow- which I could imagine being played down at Haight Ashbury.

the thing with that though is it has just waaaay too much reverb and noise gating

the bass would probably work better centered too

dmc, if you think that's the only song on the album with psychedelic elements, you really haven't listened to the record.

Agreed a thousand times. One just has to listen to Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby (the early Sharon Marie version, not the Spring one) and Darlin' back to back to know that.

Granted, I wasn't alive in the 1960s so I might be lacking on the context. But I feel like we are defining psychedelia in far too narrow terms, perhaps we are defining it as more political than we need to (from this vantage point, it's no longer really an "us" and "them" issue). I was a huge stoner and acidhead in my teens and I can say with confidence that Wild Honey is one of the great drug lps of all time

Perhaps of your time, but not during the psychedelic period. No way. Pepper, Satanic Majesties Request, Disraeli Gears, Pink Floyd and others were the big psych players of the time-certainly not the Beach Boys of all groups. Believe me when I say that 1967 to 1971 wasn't a fashionable time to listen to the group let alone light up or trip to them.

Lol, but you're not getting it. All we are saying is that it has psychedelic elements, which it no doubt has.

I'm inclined to believe that there are psychedelic elements in Wild Honey.  Whether or not they were perceived by the public in the '60s is irrelevant.

Did you?

Sorry, but while Wild Honey is very much indebted to R'n'B, it's not 50's R'n'B. There's not much here that references, say, Ray Charles, Jackie Wilson, Lee Dorsey, etc. It's not even really an homage to people like Chuck Berry who is all over the early BB records. Instead, the R'n'B that informs Wild Honey, is 60s R'n'B, like Motown and Stax, hence the horns on Darlin', the cover of Stevie Wonder, etc.

And the fact is that late 60s psychedelia was informed by Motown and Stax, and by late 1967, wore those influences on its sleeve even more so. So, we have something like Whiter Shade of Pale, which is certainly inspired by When A Man Loves a Woman. Then you have Joplin basically doing soul songs. The Letter by the Box Tops was certainly one of the first that was actively sounding soul-inspired. But Wild Honey, in many ways, nicely informed the connections between soul and psychedelia that were to be even more heavily felt through 1968 and 1969 in songs like "Baby, Now That I Found You," "Midnight Confessions," "Judy in Disguise", stuff by Blood, Sweat, and Tears, etc.

Thumps up  :3d

+2

:ohyeah

The Rolling Stone magazine review of Surf's Up by Arthur Schmidt (who I had the pleasure to meet - and who swapped me his copy of Friends for some...thing) also has a couple of superb paragraphs on Wild Honey, particularly 'Country Air' I seem to remember.

Anyone know what part of Darlin, Mike Love wrote? Did he just write the lyrics or did he compose too?



Death cab for cutie? Any song with a bappadapa for example soul meets body. Pavement? Now I got to think of a Pavement song...

Two separate thoughts on this thread:

1) Not to insult anyone's opinions here, but I sincerely hope that ghost is not back. This guy, to me, was nothing but a troll and a major detractor from what normally is a serious exchange of ideas and opinions about The Beach Boys. While he did seem somewhat knowledgeable about certain aspects of the band, it was just plain stupid and annoying to see in the middle of serious threads, posts from him glorifying the "Wilson/Landy/Alexander" songwriting partnership, the stuff about Manson being the subject of Dennis' "Little Bird," the "Wilson brothers were gay" thread title, or that diatribe to zen or whatever under his "'Surfin' is better than 'Good Vibrations'" which he then bumped six times. And those are just a few examples of this guy begging for attention. Sorry to vent so long after this all went down, but I became incredibly irritated while reading through this and other threads not about Smile, at how his insane posts interrupted otherwise very insightful posts.

2) To the topic at hand, I love Wild Honey. It was only the third studio album I had from the band. Oddly I first got hold of Surfin' Safari, Pet Sounds, then Wild Honey. Though, before that, I had had the 1995 or 96' version of greatest hits CD for a few years. I've loved it since I first heard it and was the "chill out" music for me at a very tough time in my life and that fondness has stayed with me.
At first only knowing Smile from the Good Vibrations box set and not having Smiley Smile yet, I was in awe of the change in sound from Pet Sounds. Having a clearer view of it now, it makes perfect sense that this would be what would following something such as Smile. It seemed to be the trend after big productions to retreat back to simpler works. A lot is said about The Beatles' backtracking after Sgt. Pepper, but to further that case, I would also note The Rolling Stones' Beggar's Banquet, widely seen as a return to their R&B roots.
Although, save for the title track, I don't personally hear any hints at psychedelia on Wild Honey, I'm not going to say others can't. I believe certain terms, including psychedelic can be taken subjectively due to each person's experience. But for me, Jon is right on the money about this being Brian's attempt to bring the band in a different direction from what was "mainstream."

also wild honey has the best looking cover out of all their albums :)

I like the Wild Honey cover a lot. But if I were to pick my favorites, it would be a toss up between Sunflower, 15 Big Ones, or Love You. Sunflower because I love the banner across the top and the feel of it with the boys with their kids. 15 Big Ones, because I like the Olympic style and the name design. Love You, just because I love that type of art work.
Major props to Dean Torrence. The guy gets a bad rap for his treatment of Jan while trying to progress musically before the accident, but no one can deny he is very talented, including in the art department.

dean torrence did that cover art? :)..and love you has a nice feel 2 it 2..it's one of the only ones without the boyz on it.

Yep, the work of Dean O. Torrence. His work on other album covers is quite impressive, as well.

Surprisingly, almost half their original albums don't feature the boys on the cover including: Surfin' U.S.A., Little Deuce Coupe, Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Live In London, Surf's Up, Carl and The Passions- So Tough, Holland, M.I.U. Album, L.A. (Light Album), The Beach Boys, Still Cruisin', Summer In Paradise, and Stars and Stripes, Vol. 1.
A case could be made for Smile, but since it wasn't released how or when it was originally envisioned, I left that one off. In Concert is also a subjective case since Dennis features on the cover, and even though not a group photo, I didn't include above because of Dennis.

1. There's nothing wrong with liking the songwriting from BW 88.
2. The idea of Manson being referenced in "Little Bird" is plausible, although we don't have any hard evidence.
3. Let's just say that Brian's sex life with Marilyn was really weird at times. And Tandyn Almer probably did both of them. Dennis used to talk about how he was once raped/almost raped by some black guys (you think I'm joking? - that tidbit is in one of the more respected Beach Boys bios). Carl was very sensitive. That's all. So who's to say?

But, of course, if you make posts like I just did, the homophobes come out in full force. Brian would be less of a man in their eyes if he was bisexual.

Ghost was ironically the the most homophobic and hateful out of everybody with his incident with Wirestone and the "Wilson brothers are gay" thread was really about trashing Jeff Foskett for the millionth time just because he didn't like "love you". The guy was a troll and a jerk who only liked the mentally ill Brian Wilson of the 1970s because he thought he was going through the same issues Brian did back then. Ghost was seriously disturbed as shown with the suicide attempt (which might have not even happened) and hardcore drug use. The moderators did the right thing kicking him off the board.

Pretty sure ghost wasn't trying to discuss the intricacies of the Wilson Brother's sexuality beyond 'who can I piss off today'.  ::)



Open and shut case then.....

Off-topic, but someone who attempts suicide isn't necessarily "disturbed". I also can't see someone being a Beach Boys fan solely because they related to Brian's mental illness in the 70s. I think he had some pretty cool insights etc. and wasn't a troll.

That's what I'm saying. His posts weren't even based on anything in reality. While I respect everyone's opinions, I take the following issues with Dada's response:
1. There's nothing wrong with liking the songwriting from BW 88.
      - I have nothing against Brian's writing at the time. Some of those songs are my favorites from Brian's solo career. My point was that the post I was pointing to made it sound as if this was some glorious working combination along the lines of Brian's collaborations with Mike, Gary, Roger, Tony, Van Dyke, etc. But it wasn't. It was Landy using Brian's talents to further his own wealth. Exactly why his name has been removed from the writing credits of the reissue of Brian's first solo album.
2. The idea of Manson being referenced in "Little Bird" is plausible, although we don't have any hard evidence.
      - It is plausible, but was clearly only brought up due to the touchiness of the subject of Dennis' friendship with Manson. And Jon probably knows more about this, but according to Andrew's site, "Little Bird" was recorded in February, giving Dennis two months to have been entranced by Manson (by all accounts, they met in 1968). Also, it was, I believe, Steve Kalinich who was the main lyricist behind this song and I've never heard of anything between him and Charles Manson.
3. Let's just say that Brian's sex life with Marilyn was really weird at times. And Tandyn Almer probably did both of them. Dennis used to talk about how he was once raped/almost raped by some black guys (you think I'm joking? - that tidbit is in one of the more respected Beach Boys bios). Carl was very sensitive. That's all. So who's to say?
      - Whatever the nature of any of their sex lives/preferences, the particular post in question was taken entirely out of context, and done so, obviously for shock value. There is no way on earth ghost read just that one quote out of the entire article. And, even if he had, curiosity would almost force anyone to read more. And, I have to point out that just because someone gets raped by the same sex, doesn't make them not straight. Rape isn't something that happens because anyone wants it to.

I could be wrong on a few points above, so correct me if I am. Again, it wasn't my intent to rehash the banning of ghost. I merely became annoyed with reading good posts that were interrupted out of nowhere by nonsensical, ludicrous babble. So, I do apologize for part of my post moving this thread off topic, but I am very glad the board is now (relatively) free of this.

It's the fact that Dennis would bring it up semi-frequently as some kind of weird joke/story is what makes it suspect.

Actually, you are wrong: rape happens because rapers want to rape.

wait there are people who don't like bw88?

In Dennis' case, I think he was referencing from the victim's point of view.

I'm with Runnersdialzero on this one.

My only criticism might be that he posted a little too much for his own good, giving the haters really no option but to hate, hate, hate. When he first resurfaced many regular posters chimed in their support for Ghost and his unconventional take (toke) on the music.

You guys always fail to add that he ignored the warnings of the Mods. That didn't exactly help his cause any.

Fair point.

let's just say wild honey...well anything would sound amazing after listening 2 smiley smile lol jk
actually i like the mysterious-ness of smiley smile..it's the abortion of the great "smile."

Yes, Smiley Smile is a funhouse-mirror image of SMiLe. Very cool to have both of them and BWPS here in 2011.

Incidentally, Newguy562, this post was coherent and readable, so keep up the good work. Maybe lose the "2" "LOL" and "JK" - typing the word "to" instead of "2" should be pretty easy - and you'll be an unimpeachable poster here on SS.net.

I can get with a little lol and jks!

I'm slowly progressing lol. Yes instead of abortion i would consider it a funhouse mirror image of smile.
At first listen i was strangely afraid of it but i always found it interesting cuz of the whole smile myth & the album cover art. Also how sum parts of smile was in it but overall it's its own album &. i love it.

Wild Honey...

It's no Wishbone Ash but it's ok.

Am I the only one who used to think LOL stood for 'lots of love...' I love how easy going Wild honey is, it's very relaxing and almost bluesy. A definitely under appreciated BB album.

"lame obnoxious loser". i got into a lot of fights over that. like real, physical fights involving golf clubs.

Wow... And I thought I was bad.

The adventures of runnersdialzero... :lol

Yup, you are the only one. Well besides a friend of a friend which certainly made a fool out of herself a couple of times;

- "My grandmother died"
- "Aw, that's so sad :( - I'm here for you. LOL"

wow, that's terrible!

I wonder if a wild honey flavoured muffin would be tasty  >:D

Well now that I've successfully derailed this thread, off to find some more to sabotage  ;)

Reminds me of that wretched overused "like" button on Facebook:

-"Sad day.  My uncle got hit by a train"
-Chester Flatbottom likes this.

There's something very wrong with that, but I see it all the time.

Agree with both examples above. I NEVER use "lol" in anything (well, besides just now!). Haha. I have a friend who is a horrible conversationalist in person and an even worse one through instant messenger. If he didn't know what to say back to you (which 9 times out of 10, no matter what the subject, he didn't), he would just write "lol." A perfect, real example would be: Me- "I hope I find another job soon"; him- "lol." Me- "why is that something to laugh at?"; him- "just is. lol" Needless to say, we speak or message very sparingly.

And just to keep things on topic, I love Wild Honey and while listening to 20/20 the other day thought I heard the Wild Honey-tuned piano on the "Time To Get Alone" track. Has anyone else ever thought this?

To take things resoundedly  off-topic, apparently if your profile on Facebook is deleted (due to you being an arse, or whatever), where your previous likes turned up as  'John Smith likes this', they then come up as 'NOBODY Likes this'.




Which I think is a bit harsh, really.

Oh yes, back on topic, please.  Sorry for my involvement in the derailment....(lol!)  ;D  Considering that TTGA was initially tracked in the WILD HONEY-FRIENDS era, it should be no surprise to hear the detuned piano in there.  Come to think of it, I'm not even sure about when Brian stopped using it. 

I love that detuned piano sound myself.  I think it sets the whole vibe for the WILD HONEY album.  When I first heard it many years ago, I thought it was some sort of electronic piano or early synth!

I had no idea!! Harsh, indeed, but somewhat funny, still.

So, did we all pretty much conclude that, despite what is said, the track used for The Beach Boys' version is the same as the Redwood track?

And, I totally agree on the detuned piano. I got my first electronic keyboard shortly after getting Wild Honey and the closest that had to that sound was a "honky tonk" piano setting.

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

Correct me if I'm wrong, (which someone undoubtedly will) but I think it was Bruce Johnston.

it's called white boy soul. lol

The organ solo in the middle is Bruce Johnson. In the verses, it could either be Brian or Bruce. I'm not entirely sure.

Hey Newguy, if you want really good "white boy soul" check out Gram Parsons!
Especially on The Flying Burrito Brothers "Gilded Palace of Sin".

 :-D

Brian most likely.

Isnt Gram Parsons the guy from The Byrds? I remember hearing that name,I think he died i'm not quite sure.

troll.

History lesson time...  Gram Parsons was in the Byrds for about 6 months in early 1968.  Hired to replace David Crosby (if you don't count Gene Clark's 2 week return in Oct 1967) instead of just joining the band he completely transformed them into a country band (not a country rock band per se-they were much more hard core country on the one album with him Sweetheart of The Rodeo, but sadly several of the songs he sang on had his vocals replaced due to contractual problems and other factors - but they are available as bonus tracks on various releases).  They even played on the Grand Ole Opry with Gram singing the 2 songs, one of which he switched in his own original for a Merle Haggard tune at the last minute and were greeted with a cool reception to say the least.  He left the band/was fired when he refused to join them on a tour of South Africa, citing his stance against apartheid (though he really wanted to hang with his new pal Keith Richards instead).  He wanted to create "Cosmic American Music" as he called it, and was one of the people credited with fusing country music to rock and even soul.  His two solo albums featured amazing duets with Emmylou Harris, but tragically he died of a drug overdose in 1973 at the age of 26.  He would have been a country music superstar for sure had he lived.  In death, he's become a legend.  He and Emmylou are considered one of the greatest country male/female duos ever, and some of his work is highly regarded (the Byrds album, the Gilded Palace Of Sin album, and his two solo albums are all great).

Back to Wild Honey - when's that new stereo version gonna come out?! >:D

Wow he changed their genre of music :), he must've been talented and very innovative to so. :) Now i'm going to check him out and see if i like his work. Certain legends die young but it's better to burn out then fade away. :/

Many hardcore Brian fans would disagree.... but I completely agree.

As to the Psychedelic debate, I'd say Wild Honey isn't.... bar the title track.

Since this topic has been revived, I thought I'd ask a question: how was Brian allowed to record on such bad equipment? Like seriously, he's got these great singles for Wild Honey and he's fronting a group worth millions, and yet it sounds like he's using a car muffler to capture the sounds. How were there not more objections, both from the band and the label? Didn't anyone beg him to rerecord "Wild Honey" or "Darlin'" or "Aren't You Glad" at a professional studio? I know Al has made comment over the years that it felt like Brian was almost sabotaging the group. "Aren't You Glad" with pro equipment is a hit song for Chicago. Brian's instincts were still on the money.

Even "Do It Again", recorded after Friends, has barely passable production for such a big money band, which is especially puzzling since Friends was such a clear, well-produced album. It almost makes you think Al was right.  "Break Away" was better, but you're still left wondering, why couldn't this sound like "Help Me Rhonda"? Why does everything have to be so muddy and buried? I get that Brian was going for the Wall of Sound feel, but honestly, the instrumental gets so lost in "Break Away" (IMO) that it almost comes off as a capella at moments, with some sparse percussion mixed up for rhythmic feel.

Some say Brian didn't have the attention span or whatever to mix things like he used to, but then why didn't he just let the engineers do the heavy lifting? It's so bizarre.

COMMENT:  Brian and group did not record on "bad" equipment. The same equipment was used to record Wild Honey and Friends.  All the problems you cite are a function of Mastering, not Recording.

As to Break Away being a cappella, that depends on how you wish to mix the song. The track is there but so are many vocals. I suggest you entertain yourself by visiting my website (http://swdstudyvideos.com) and listen to the study-video of Break Away. It depends upon your taste, but listen to Break Away and see if the re-mastered sound agrees with you. I do hear more from the instrumental track then "some sparse percussion" as you put it. What I think you only hear are the pickup drum beats which have a little more presence because they were an added close-miked overdub. I hear all the instruments that are on the tracks. If you don't hear the instrumental backing, suggest you try listening on headphones. Then once you know what to listen for you will hear the instrumental track and the vocal track in a more balanced way when you listen over loudspeakers.    ~swd

Well then why was the mastering so poor on Wild Honey and some of the singles? And why does Friends sound so much better than Wild Honey and "Do It Again"? It's mystifying.

It's more than the mastering - how it was recorded and MIXED is important too.  A stereo remix of Wild Honey could potentially sound much much better, but too many elements added to the mono mix directly would be missing, and some mutitracks are missing as well. 

Why does Friends sound better?  We have Mr. Desper to thank for that.

Also, I do agree that you can hear everything in "Break Away". I wasn't being literal in my a capella comment. I'd say, though, that it lacks the clarity of a track like "Help Me Rhonda". The sounds don't necessarily jump out. That said, it is A LOT better than "Do It Again".

Listen to the chorus of "Break Away" starting at about 1:00. On my Spirit of America copy, you hear a BUNCH of vocals, the percussion, and some horn stabs. The rest of the track is still there, I think, but it's essentially acting as a very atmospheric echo. Is there a bass? A guitar? A piano? Hell if I know. Maybe. There's something muddy going on that I can't grasp. For me, it's a step down from "Help Me Rhonda" and "Sloop John B".  Like when the guitar comes in at the end of the chorus - again - it just don't pop.

And yes, Mr. Desper, Friends sounds amazing. I love that album, and I don't know about everything you helped the BBs with, but I think  20/20 and the early 70s material sounds good, too. Again, I don't know exactly who or what is responsible for the muddiness on Wild Honey or "Do It Again", but it's there.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Break Away in mono (folddown) on Spirit Of America? Only album that it is, and could be why it sounds weird to you. Try the mix on the 2-fer, that is definitely in stereo and I definitley hear guitars strumming in the verses and plenty of sounds in the choruses.

So the consensus, then, is that "Break Away" is produced is as good as "Help Me Rhonda" and "Sloop John B"? I'm just curious to get others perspectives. I certainly don't think "Break Away" is a badly done in any way, and I believe Brian was intentionally going for a muddier Phil Spector sound. Certainly you can hear that with "Do It Again", although I wonder if it was also a side effect of Brian's recording techniques at the time. He seemed to be adding stuff as he went along. Rather then attempt to rerecord the entire track in a live studio setting to incorporate his new ideas, he'd just throw musical elements on top of musical elements in separate sessions. If stuff got lost or muddy, oh well. Or maybe he wanted it that way. Who knows?

Remember too that he didn't have the Wrecking Crew with a dozen or more musicians filling out the soundscape.

COMMENT:  Please define "muddiness." Usually this means an overabundance of bass or a rolloff of the top end. In broadcasting it means a low level, i.e., the VU meter is “down in the mud” or only moving in the lower left of the scale, which is all black (or mud).   

Somewhere I posted about the differences between recording in stereo and mixing in stereo. In short, re-mixing a production designed for mono release is not at all the same as mixing one recorded with a stereo mix in mind. When you mix a mono recording into stereo it's like taking a B&W photo and colorizing it. Oh, it's in color all right, just as some of the mono tracks are panned left, center, and right, but L/C/R a stereo recording does not make. That is only an amplitude stereo mix because you assign in your mix some tracks to each location, however as you have noted, the leakage does not follow.

Consider the effect that microphone leakage has on the finished product. In mono the leakage is point source and has no dimension. It fuses with the original sound of the instrument or voice to become one point in space like everything else on the track. Mono is a one point source. Mono recordings are intended to be point sources of sound IN THEIR TOTALITY. The producer takes into account the effect of microphone leakage in their judgment calls about the entire mix.

Now consider what happens when you mix a mono production into stereo. You pull apart what the producer intended to be a point source, to act as one sound. In stereo you separate (by way of phase discrimination) the original instrument's sound from its microphone leakage. The instrument stays a point source while the microphone leakage is heard as phase-derived stereo. Is that what the producer intended? Who knows since the original instrument was never intended to be separated from the bloom of overall leakage. Now the instrument becomes something with a different sound (original instrument less leakage) and the leakage take on its own identity – which must be taken into consideration.

If you define mud as a diffusion of clarity; look to leakage as a culprit. Wherein the mono production, leakage was a consideration of the whole mix, now in stereo it take on its own character. What was once, say, six instruments, each and every one living in the same acoustic reproduction space, now, in stereo, is six instruments living in an expanded space but with each instrument adding leakage in phase-stereo. In effect you hear more leakage than in mono, more room sound, more distance, and that you may call mud or a blurring of the sound.
 
If the production was to be stereo from the get-go, microphone leakage is given a different consideration – in fact, the leakage is more of a problem and is reduced in proportion to the original instrument AT THE TIME OF RECORDING.

We engineers can do many things to the sound, but taking a mono multi-track and remaking it into stereo is just a few steps away from Duophonic . . . so don’t expect miracles.        ~swd
 

Probably my 3rd fave BB's album, just behind Holland and All Summer Long.

Brother reissue two-fer with 20/20 sounds fab to me.

I adore Wild Honey, and in fact I even like the lo-fi sound.  It fits the vibe of the album.

Thanks Mr. Desper (or do you prefer Stephen?). That was quite an informative response. Certainly, Brian was experimenting leakage/echo (not sure if I'm using the term right, but here we go) in some interesting ways around '67/'68. On Wild Honey there are quite a few instances where he artfully mixes vocal harmonies with the echoes of different instruments. An obvious later example on "Do It Again" is the way the harmonies during the end of first verse blend in with that droning bass sound (which may be a mix of organ and horns, I'm not sure).  On "Break Away", he throws in that the sine wave-ish organ at a few key moments to accentuate the echo of the rest of the track. It sounds very out place without vocals, but works great on the finished track.

But I guess my point was, what is something on either of those two singles that pops out as loud and clear as the bass on "Help Me Rhonda"? In my opinion, for example, the bass lines on songs like "Do It Again" and "Break Away" take on an almost amorphous quality, very similar to a Phil Spector recording. They're there, but you really gotta listen. And that's what I'm really referring to. Brian is going for a different approach than in the '65/'66 era, but it doesn't seem like the technology available to him could fully capture what he was going for.

Also, I'll mention again that all of the actual albums from Friends onwards (until 15 Big Ones) have that "pop" in the instruments. I believe that whatever it is I'm hearing is intrinsically tied to Brian's approach to recording around the Wild Honey period.

COMMENT in iteration TO Mr. Cohen:

Thanks Mr. Desper (or do you prefer Stephen?). Either. That was quite an informative response. Certainly, Brian was experimenting leakage/echo (not sure if I'm using the term right, but here we go) in some interesting ways around '67/'68. On Wild Honey there are quite a few instances where he (Don’t always assume Brian is doing all this creativity.) artfully mixes vocal harmonies with the echoes of different instruments. An obvious later example on "Do It Again" is the way the harmonies during the end of first verse blend in with that droning bass sound (which may be a mix of organ and horns, I'm not sure). Carl’s idea, not Brian. On "Break Away", he throws in that the sine wave-ish organ at a few key moments to accentuate the echo of the rest of the track. It sounds very out place without vocals, but works great on the finished track.

But I guess my point was, what is something on either of those two singles that pops out as loud and clear as the bass on "Help Me Rhonda"? In my opinion, for example, the bass lines on songs like "Do It Again" and "Break Away" take on an almost amorphous quality, very similar to a Phil Spector recording. Again, what you hear is the effect of microphone leakage. The larger the date, the more leakage. The more overdubs, especially vocal overdubs, the more bass leakage buildup (from the control room monitors) as the tracks are stacked. This gives the bass that amorphous quality (which I really like, and by the way point out on study-video. Did you review the Break Away study-video? If not, go there and place your speakers and yourself as show and then listen – turn it up! ) They're there, but you really gotta listen. Phil used big sessions for tracking, hence the washing of the bass – and he used leakage to create that “wall-of-sound”. That’s all it was. And that's what I'm really referring to. Brian is going for a different approach than in the '65/'66 era, but it doesn't seem like the technology available to him could fully capture what he was going for. Actually it’s the technology, or better said, it’s the lack of technology that lends its sonic signature to the overall sound. What you hear is a mistake. It would never happen in a studio of today. Back then many popular independent studios were cheaply made. Bass isolation between the studio and the control room was poor. As multi-track recording added more and more tracks to the overall stacks bass- leakage-buildup could be heard. Loud monitoring levels were washing out the bass with vocal overdubs from one studio or another. It was not until more isolated studios were built that the problem was overcome. As more tracks became available to Brian, he took into account how bass washout would affect his final mix, for sure.     

Also, I'll mention again that all of the actual albums from Friends onwards (until 15 Big Ones) have that "pop" in the instruments. I believe that whatever it is I'm hearing is intrinsically tied to Brian's approach to recording around the Wild Honey period. You are indeed, an acute listener. My theory is this. Around that time Jimmy Lockart, the BB engineer of that period; setup a makeshift studio in Brian’s home. It was the forerunner of the home studio I designed. I believe what you are hearing is the sound or sonic signature of the broadcast console that was the heart of the studio’s sound. This Collins console was designed for running a radio station. Hence the sound of the console is rather commercial or “pop” as you put it. It was a high-fidelity console with excellent specifications, but it was designed for use in AM and FM broadcasting. It was a broadcasting console modified for use as a studio console. It used tubes, not transistors, as active elements. If you look at the console with today’s instrumentation, you will find the ‘scope showing a gentle even-order distortion as the sound, especially the bass, is pushed toward the upper limit of the dynamic range of the console. Today’s transistor consoles, when pushed to the end of their dynamic range produce odd-order distortions – not musically related at all. With the tube, the distortion is even-order, just like harmony. I believe that may be what you are hearing.   

You are a Good Listener,  ~Stephen W. Desper

Steve, thanks very much for the informative read.

Thankyou Steve....  Your knowledge is priceless.....  ;)

Your contributions are highly valued......

RickB

Great reading! Thanks guys!

I've mentioned it several times, "Wild honey" is one of my favorite Beach Boys albums, maybe my favorite. If I should describe it I'd call it "Beach Boys on Sun Records" as it has that very basic, lively and "minimalistic" (for lack of a better word in my vocabulary) approach and sound to it that's very reminding of what Sam Phillips did at Memphis Recording Service. Oh boy, how cool would've it had been if the Boys and Sam would have worked together.
Does it get any better than the title track, "Here comes the night" or Carl's take on "I was made to love her"?

I hope the album gets a re-release not as a two-fer but as a disc on it's own. Of course there had to be bonus tracks as the album itself is so short. I guess you could use some outtakes like the vocal sessions for "I was made to love her" and some backing tracks as well. Maybe some live performances of the album's songs and the stereo mixes that are already available.
"Little red book" was recorded during these sessions as well, wasn't it? And "Lonely days"? Anyway, I guess there could be an interesting release.

Yes, thanks. Interesting to see what was going on behind the scenes.

I just stumbled across this interview with Bruce from 2013. Here's some "Wild honey" talk:

"Wild Honey is as close to our rhythm and blues album as we could ever have done. There’s nothing to it which makes it everything. We’re doing the title track now live. The reason we couldn’t do it live back then is Carl was singing at the top of his range when he recorded it and if he sang that song live, he’d only last two or three nights and then he’d be tearing his voice apart. On that track, Brian said, “Play bass!’ I had played bass on the Party album so I played the bass line on that plus that cheesy 96 Tears sounding organ solo. For that album we all played pretty much on the tracks."


The whole interview is here: http://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/2013/09/04/bruce-johnston-interview-beach-boys/#sthash.rYFvknOR.dpbs

Bruce talks about many of the more unknown stuff.

"I did not like the Friends album because I thought it was wimpy. We had to do some of the Friends stuff on the road and it just used to make me wince because it was wimpy".

- Bruce Johnston

So Bruce. Nearest Faraway Place, Dierdre, Tears In The Morning, Disney Girls, Endless Harmony, I Write The Songs, and She Believes In Love Again aren't wimpy?

And Bruce, about that red sweater you're wearing on the Sunflower cover....

Mikie, spoken like a true fan! ;D

cool info! thanks a million for making such insightful posts  :) it's great for us hobby music makers (who also try to replicate some Beach Boys recordings, but always fall short somehow...)

All the time he was trying to outwimp the Friends album to make it seem less wimpy by comparison, out of sheer empathy! :-D

Isn't the Friends album cover absolutely glorious??? Bruce just seems to have zero taste and/or judgement. Mind you, that Goin' Pubic album cover - masterpiece!! The way it just lazily lifts an old Sunflower-era photo and slaps it onto a plain mauve background - sheer class! Curious to know as to where this ranks in Bruce's bad album cover list... :) 

Though most of Bruce's music is not my beef I agree with him so that the Friends cover is my least favorite 60s BB album cover. The back cover is great, though!

I've said it before here....Friends is my favorite BBs cover, by far.  It reflects the times so well and shows a certain level of hipness.  Smiley, Wild Honey, and Friends have some really cool artsy covers.....

and then there's 20/20, which has the look of a $2.99 Pickwick reissue found gathering dust in a bargain bin!  But that's a whole other story!

My apologies, and now back to that great BBs blues statement that is named Wild Honey!  8)

Zero taste? A bit strong, more like "differing". But yes, Goin' Public cover is a joke. Dunno how Bruce ranks it, just that he told some fan who came with the album to sign it for him to toss/never show it again.

"If you’re a real fan of music, if you listen to Pet Sounds, Sloop John B does not belong on that album."

DAMMIT BRUCE.

He signed my Goin' Public CD-cover willingly.  And I think he's right; Sloop John B does not really fit on Pet Sounds. As for the Friends cover, he couldn't be more wrong! :D