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Author Topic: What are the essential sections in your personal H&V mix?  (Read 5010 times)
egon spengler
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« on: July 06, 2011, 05:42:09 PM »

I'm recording a H&V cover and want to get some input on the "essential" sections from folks who have given this a lot more thoughts over the years than I. Obviously this would be an ideal question for a poll, but that's not working.. so here are the possible sections as I could make them out (forgive me if some go by other names or if I left any out--i'm still learning):

1) Verse 1 ("I've been in this town...")
2) Verse 2 ("La la/Stand or fall"/acapella break)
3) Verse 3 ("At three score and five..")
4) Chorus (Bicycle Rider-style)
5) Cantina
6) "My children were raised.." (single version)
7) "My children were raised.." (alternate version)
8) Sunny down snuff
9) H&V Chant 1 (Gee)
10) H&V Chant 2 (w/Swedish frog ending)
11) H&V Chant 3 ("The heroes, the heroes, the heroes and villains..")
12) H&V Chant 4 ("Doot doot doot, H&V")
13) Dum dum/whistle/explosion
14) Wedged "Ahh"s (All Dressed Up/Goin' On-style)
15) Flutter tone solo trombone riff
16) Other (describe)

While we're at it, what variations do you like best -- the single version verse? the alternate version verse? the Brian/Mike vocal trade-off verse? the single-style chorus, or the one with heavy percussion throughout? Etc etc..

And of course, what's your personal mix sequence?

For me, it's a BWPS-influenced:

Gee (cut off at Db chord)-->
Dum dum/whistle/explosion-->
Single-style Verse 1/chorus (w/heavy percussion)/Verse 2/acapella break-->
Cantina
Alt. "my children.."
Verse 4 ("at three score...") w/acapella "dum, be doo be do wah" ending
Sunny down snuff
Chorus (w/heavy percussion)
Wedged ADUFS/Goin On "ahh"s
Western theme

What say you?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 05:55:46 PM by egon spengler » Logged
runnersdialzero
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 06:58:30 PM »

the "demo" where brian inexplicably sounds like daniel johnston

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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 03:35:49 AM »

Here is my latest mix using BWPS

http://soundcloud.com/the-essential-drop/heroes-and-villains-re-edit
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 10:23:17 AM »

Without going into insane detail, I always like to include verse 3. But then you have to lose the boy/girl chant, unless you find a way to work it in later, which seems awkward. Verse 3 is the one part I really wish they had found a way to use in '04, but my guess is they really didn't want to lose that chant.

I also like using some of the more "chipper" sounding choruses from the outtakes--like the "Dip! Dip! Dip! Heroes and Villains!..." Mixing up the verses makes it a little less mournful.

My mix also includes, deep in the mix, "Ah! Mr. Wilson!" from the movies SECONDS.

I have a couple spots that use those little a cappella bits--I usually name them "Optimistic Voices, 1 and 2", after the Wizard of Oz song. (You know what I mean--there's the one that sounds kinda like "Goin' On", and another one that's very similar...)
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egon spengler
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 09:14:16 AM »

Is there any consensus on False Barnyard? I feel very take-it-or-leave-it on that one, leaning toward leave-it.
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 01:21:14 PM »

What are the essential sections in your personal H&V mix?

I'm In Great Shape and Barnyard.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 01:29:02 PM by JMZ » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 03:22:57 PM »

Great idea for a thread!!

I wish the background music kept going after the 1st verse a la SOT #17 Disc 1, track 12-ish I believe. It's the mono mix attempts.

I wish the background music was not so muddy, with a clearer trombone melody.

There is more but I'm at work and have to go- that and I haven't heard the track since February so it is not totally fresh in my brain...can't wait to hear it on vinyl with the new box set...dream about it at least 17 times a day.
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 03:26:14 PM »

No Prelude To Fade anyone?  Huh
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 11:24:43 PM »

SWEDISH FROG OVER AND OVER FOR 12 MINUTES LIKE BRIAN INTENDED DAMN IT
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2011, 02:26:48 AM »

I like putting Western Theme at the start, like some sort of Overture, and you can have it go straight in to the verse cos of the trombone riff. I don't like putting it at the end, it's not like he didn't record enough fades for the sodding tune  Grin

I haven't made a 'big' H&V mix in some time. My last mix is an attempted 'single' edit, but I've essentially copied the Cantina mix in structure, replacing the cantina part itself with Great Shape and Barnyard, then 'You're under arrest' and back into the normal swing of things. Until the fade, which is the 45 fade.
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2011, 09:38:16 AM »

Definitely would put Swedish Frog part layered underneath the Cantina section...
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2011, 02:20:54 PM »

the "demo" where brian inexplicably sounds like daniel johnston

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is this the "demo" you speak of from the Endless Harmony soundtrack?
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2011, 06:40:26 AM »

the "demo" where brian inexplicably sounds like daniel johnston

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is this the "demo" you speak of from the Endless Harmony soundtrack?

"Yes" it "is."
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Matt Bielewicz
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2011, 05:36:43 PM »

Ah, Heroes and Villains. The track that began my SMiLE obsession. 1995, having seen the Don Was film and wanting to know more, I was just finding out what all this Beach Boys stuff was all about. I was particularly taken by the partial rendition of God Only Knows sung by Brian and Carl at the piano that you see in the film, and the version of 'Til I Die' that was also on the subsequent album. So I took the usual route I do when I want to know more about an artist. I buy a Greatest Hits. In fact, I got myself a copy of the Greatest Hits double CD that came out that year in the UK (the one that was the first to release the single edit of the LA Light album single version of 'Here Comes The Night' on CD, though of course I didn't know that then).

Within a couple of plays, I realise that though the 'early years' cars and surf stuff leaves me cold (and it did - it took me a couple of years to really like anything the Beach Boys did before 1964) there is something really interesting going on towards the end of the first disc and the start of the second. God Only Knows is there; I remember it from the film, and I really like it. There's something called 'Caroline, No', which is great (a different version of that was also in the Was film). Great stuff, I'm realising that I could get quite interested in Brian Wilson's career. Good Vibrations opens Disc 2, and of course I *do* know that one, at least a little bit. But the real magic is the last cut on CD 1. A track called Heroes and Villains. Apparently, I read, it was a single in 1967.

It's the harmonies I notice first - the backing harmony pads and the 'doot-doots' in the verse. They grab me straight away. I'm thrown by the dischordant transition to the chorus, and further disorientated by the way everything is mixed out at the end of that section, leaving just that creepy organ for a couple of seconds. But GOOD disorientated. I like it. I love it even more when the track explodes back into life for the 'Stand or fall' verse. I'm just wondering what else this track can do to surprise me, when the chorus goes through that dischordant transition again. "What's next?" I wonder briefly, loving the ride.

And the next section is the one that seals the deal. It takes my fast-growing interest in this band and raises it to the next level. The lyrics are terrific; a series of tumbling syllables that seem to trip over each other as they rush out of the lead singer's mouth, but make perfect, if oddball, sense. They're like poetry - by the line 'healthy, wealthy and wise' I'm totally sold. And the gymnastic backing harmonies are making my heart sing as all of this happens and they rise up the scale. "Wow, that was beautiful," I think; "if only I could hear that again." And as if they weren't great enough the first time round, I DO get to hear them again, this time without the lead vocal partly masking them. And then there's a lovely rallentando to a harmony spread, and just when it somehow most needs to happen, a dead stop.

People talk about that amazing pause in Good Vibrations, the one that follows the organ bridge, just before the big harmony 'aaaahhhhh!' that brings us back to the chorus, and yeah, sure, I do really love that moment, too. But the dead stop in the single version of Heroes and Villains pips that for me. I'd swear, the first time I heard that pause, it seemed to go on longer than any subsequent time I heard it. I started to get up to see if my CD player had a problem. I couldn't believe this incredible single could end there.

AND THEN... it *wasn't* the end. Of course it wasn't. I sat amazed as I listened to a barbershop section even more beautiful than the one I'd just heard wash over me. I caught a line about snuff. I wondered what the hell that was all about. And then we were back to that creepy chorus and the organ and then the track was done.

What did I do next? I played it again, of course. And a third time after that.

Shortly after that, I read that there were other versions of this track out there. And there were even rumoured to be really long versions. I grabbed my wallet and ran down to the record store. I came back with a copy of the Smiley Smile twofer and a new obsession, thanks to David Leaf's liners. So there was supposed to have been a WHOLE ALBUM of stuff like Heroes and Villains? A WHOLE ALBUM?Huh?

I was away.

So... long answer to a short question. To this day, the bits of H&V I can't live without are the fade back to the organ at the end of the first chorus (yes, that organ! I know some people hate the Baldwin, but I love, love love it), the 'my children were raised' section from the single, and the 'sunny down snuff' part. They are what really raised the Beach Boys music up for me, and made me want to know more.

To this day, I don't rate the 'Cantina version' of H&V as highly as the later 45 version. I know that's at variance with what a lot of people think, but what the hey; I reckon Brian made the right call in scrapping it and continuing to record. I quite like the actual Cantina section itself, and I'm glad it made the 2004 version. But the performance of the 'my children were raised' part in the earlier February 67 mix is not as beguiling or interesting to me (it lacks those wonderful backing harmonies), and I really miss 'sunny down snuff'. Yeah, the tape feedback explosion and the False Barnyard fade are neat (and I *do* wish they had somehow made the 2004 cut)... but they don't sock it to me like those harmonies near the end of the 45 version. Even now, those parts make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. There's something simply incredible going on there.

I've always said the SMiLE music has something quite different about it. I'd never heard any of the Beach Boys singles from the late 60s, and so I had no preconceptions when first listening to that double Greatest Hits CD. I didn't know who wrote what or when, who (or what???) Van Dyke Parks was, or anything. Apart from Good Vibrations, I didn't know what had been a worldwide smash, and what was a miserable failure. I just listened, and simply liked, or didn't like. And I *really* liked Heroes and Villains - it was like nothing else I'd ever heard. And then, on Disc 2, after Good Vibrations, there were a few tracks that washed over me, something called Friends that I thought was quite nice and that I might play again later, some more bland-sounding bleh (as I thought of Bluebirds Over The Mountain and I Can Hear Music - still two tracks I haven't come round to loving)... and then suddenly, something called 'Surf's Up'. There! That track had that different quality about it again. It wasn't just the lyrics, although I did like them, straight away. And it wasn't harmonies, like in H&V - there were precious few of those until the tag. But that track made me sit up, again, straight away, and want to know more about Brian Wilson's songs. At that stage, I had *no idea* what songs had been planned for SMiLE. But Surf's Up stood out in some way, like Heroes and Villains did, and well... frankly, like Bluebirds Over The Mountain *didn't*.

So, H&V. Bloody brilliant production, and an amazing song. As long as it features 'sunny down snuff', the rallentando version of 'My Children Were Raised', and yes, dammit — THAT organ. Next on my list are 'Western Theme', 'Soul Made Beautiful', 'Bridge To Indians' and the 'clangy' chorus backing track you get near the start of the box set 'H&V Sections' track, the one without any vocals and the cellos sawing their way up the scale. That part is the one I always associate with that Van Dyke Parks quote about how Brian used to 'saturate the tape with music'. Oh, I could go on and on about what I love about H&V — but I think I've said enough for one night.

MattB
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 05:39:16 PM by Matt Bielewicz » Logged
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