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bgas
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« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2011, 12:58:19 PM »

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked. 

Soon, you'll learn not to voice your opinion on here, because people will tell you you're wrong, or they'll be pricks about it. As you've probably already seen.

Man oh man, got up on the wrong side of bed, eh?
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« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2011, 01:03:09 PM »

Dennis played the drums on And Then I Kissed her!

Listen to the Warmth Of The Sun podcasts. Brian attributes a lot of the power of that track to the great drum sound Dennis got.
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« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2011, 01:21:04 PM »

I had an epiphany when I found out that the boys themselves were the core band on tracks like "Then I Kissed Her" -- I think examples like that track say it all.

Um... none of the band play a note on "Then I Kissed Her". Sorry.
Andrew, Andrew...stop perpetuating the debunked myths!! Musicians on "Then I Kissed Her" are Brian (piano, bass), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitars), Bruce (organ)
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« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2011, 01:41:31 PM »

I had an epiphany when I found out that the boys themselves were the core band on tracks like "Then I Kissed Her" -- I think examples like that track say it all.

Um... none of the band play a note on "Then I Kissed Her". Sorry.
Andrew, Andrew...stop perpetuating the debunked myths!! Musicians on "Then I Kissed Her" are Brian (piano, bass), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitars), Bruce (organ)

Interesting - AFM sheet I've seen must be for an overdub session. Mea culpa.
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« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2011, 01:55:32 PM »

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked. 

Soon, you'll learn not to voice your opinion on here, because people will tell you you're wrong, or they'll be pricks about it. As you've probably already seen.

Man oh man, got up on the wrong side of bed, eh?

No, why?
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« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2011, 05:32:01 PM »

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked.  
I guess you might have gathered that my point is, like you, many people assume they are hearing Wrecking Crew musicians on the tracks you chose when in fact the Beach Boys are playing 90% of the instruments on those two tracks. The bass on Fun Fun Fun and on I Get Around is Al Jardine and Ray Pohlman. Carol did play on a number of great BB's tracks, but no where near as many as well meaning fans like you might assume. Don't trust the conventional wisdom because when it comes to who played on BB's sessions new research has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.

Hal Blaine on drums on "Fun, Fun, Fun", right?
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« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2011, 05:44:10 PM »

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked.  
I guess you might have gathered that my point is, like you, many people assume they are hearing Wrecking Crew musicians on the tracks you chose when in fact the Beach Boys are playing 90% of the instruments on those two tracks. The bass on Fun Fun Fun and on I Get Around is Al Jardine and Ray Pohlman. Carol did play on a number of great BB's tracks, but no where near as many as well meaning fans like you might assume. Don't trust the conventional wisdom because when it comes to who played on BB's sessions new research has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.

Hal Blaine on drums on "Fun, Fun, Fun", right?

sounds like it.
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2011, 06:18:04 PM »

I had an epiphany when I found out that the boys themselves were the core band on tracks like "Then I Kissed Her" -- I think examples like that track say it all.

Um... none of the band play a note on "Then I Kissed Her". Sorry.
Andrew, Andrew...stop perpetuating the debunked myths!! Musicians on "Then I Kissed Her" are Brian (piano, bass), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitars), Bruce (organ)

Interesting - AFM sheet I've seen must be for an overdub session. Mea culpa.

Could you be thinking about the April 16th session for "untitled ballad"? I know it's supposed to be a Then I Kissed Her session, but Then I Kissed Her was not exactly untitled at that time, nor a ballad.
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2011, 12:22:42 AM »

I had an epiphany when I found out that the boys themselves were the core band on tracks like "Then I Kissed Her" -- I think examples like that track say it all.

Um... none of the band play a note on "Then I Kissed Her". Sorry.
Andrew, Andrew...stop perpetuating the debunked myths!! Musicians on "Then I Kissed Her" are Brian (piano, bass), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitars), Bruce (organ)

Interesting - AFM sheet I've seen must be for an overdub session. Mea culpa.

Could you be thinking about the April 16th session for "untitled ballad"? I know it's supposed to be a Then I Kissed Her session, but Then I Kissed Her was not exactly untitled at that time, nor a ballad.

Exactly. My bad.
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« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2011, 01:10:09 AM »

The Wrecking Crew were indispensible, GREAT musicians BUT ...in my opinion, most of the Beach Boys' "sound" came from Brian Wilson's production style.  You can even hear Brian on the sessions telling Carol to get more highs on the bass, when to turn them off/on, etc.  The proof is in the pudding; no other '60s records sound like the Beach Boys' ... the same session players appear on countless other '60s hits, many recorded at the same studios, etc.

I agree.

And not only that, but Brian didn't always use the same Wrecking Crew musicians on every track. Pet Sounds has a homogenous sort of feel to it, right? But how many different guitarists are there on the album? How many tracks does Hal Blaine (HAL BLAINE!!!) play on on Pet Sounds...? Bet you can't tell just from listening to the album. Well, I can't anyway.
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 03:24:37 AM »

The Wrecking Crew were indispensible, GREAT musicians BUT ...in my opinion, most of the Beach Boys' "sound" came from Brian Wilson's production style.  You can even hear Brian on the sessions telling Carol to get more highs on the bass, when to turn them off/on, etc.  The proof is in the pudding; no other '60s records sound like the Beach Boys' ... the same session players appear on countless other '60s hits, many recorded at the same studios, etc.

I agree.

And not only that, but Brian didn't always use the same Wrecking Crew musicians on every track. Pet Sounds has a homogenous sort of feel to it, right? But how many different guitarists are there on the album? How many tracks does Hal Blaine (HAL BLAINE!!!) play on on Pet Sounds...? Bet you can't tell just from listening to the album. Well, I can't anyway.

I don't have the credits to hand but doesn't Hal Blaine play on 99% of the tracks on PS - Jim Gordon and Richie Frost are the others credited if my memory is right -

And yes the sounds of those BB recordings with the WC 'sound' the way they do mainly because of Brian's arranging and production skills - but the session musicians were a very major factor in those recording - there  no way Brian could have made those records sound the way they do without the musical abilities of the Wrecking Crew, which ever particular drummer or guitarist etc happened to be there on the sessions.

That said, for example, different drummers have different feels they bring to sessions - one only has to reference the Steely Dan albums - Aja and Gaucho in particular - to understand that - Steve Gadd is not the same as Rick Marotta for example - both brilliant but they will play the same song differently and even if they play the same notes it will feel different.

The BB were strictly little league when it came to musicianship on instruments - when it came to singing however - they were champions
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« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 03:47:43 AM »

The Wrecking Crew were indispensible, GREAT musicians BUT ...in my opinion, most of the Beach Boys' "sound" came from Brian Wilson's production style.  You can even hear Brian on the sessions telling Carol to get more highs on the bass, when to turn them off/on, etc.  The proof is in the pudding; no other '60s records sound like the Beach Boys' ... the same session players appear on countless other '60s hits, many recorded at the same studios, etc.

I agree.

And not only that, but Brian didn't always use the same Wrecking Crew musicians on every track. Pet Sounds has a homogenous sort of feel to it, right? But how many different guitarists are there on the album? How many tracks does Hal Blaine (HAL BLAINE!!!) play on on Pet Sounds...? Bet you can't tell just from listening to the album. Well, I can't anyway.

I don't have the credits to hand but doesn't Hal Blaine play on 99% of the tracks on PS - Jim Gordon and Richie Frost are the others credited if my memory is right -


99% of the tracks is basically 13 out of 13, so you're saying he's on every track...but i suggest you check those credits...
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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 04:10:23 AM »

I don't have the credits to hand but doesn't Hal Blaine play on 99% of the tracks on PS - Jim Gordon and Richie Frost are the others credited if my memory is right -

10 of 13, which my calculator says is a tad under 77%.
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« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2011, 04:44:16 AM »

The Wrecking Crew were indispensible, GREAT musicians BUT ...in my opinion, most of the Beach Boys' "sound" came from Brian Wilson's production style.  You can even hear Brian on the sessions telling Carol to get more highs on the bass, when to turn them off/on, etc.  The proof is in the pudding; no other '60s records sound like the Beach Boys' ... the same session players appear on countless other '60s hits, many recorded at the same studios, etc.

I agree.

And not only that, but Brian didn't always use the same Wrecking Crew musicians on every track. Pet Sounds has a homogenous sort of feel to it, right? But how many different guitarists are there on the album? How many tracks does Hal Blaine (HAL BLAINE!!!) play on on Pet Sounds...? Bet you can't tell just from listening to the album. Well, I can't anyway.

I don't have the credits to hand but doesn't Hal Blaine play on 99% of the tracks on PS - Jim Gordon and Richie Frost are the others credited if my memory is right -

And yes the sounds of those BB recordings with the WC 'sound' the way they do mainly because of Brian's arranging and production skills - but the session musicians were a very major factor in those recording - there  no way Brian could have made those records sound the way they do without the musical abilities of the Wrecking Crew, which ever particular drummer or guitarist etc happened to be there on the sessions.

That said, for example, different drummers have different feels they bring to sessions - one only has to reference the Steely Dan albums - Aja and Gaucho in particular - to understand that - Steve Gadd is not the same as Rick Marotta for example - both brilliant but they will play the same song differently and even if they play the same notes it will feel different.

The BB were strictly little league when it came to musicianship on instruments - when it came to singing however - they were champions

Denny played the drums on "That's Not Me" (ironic title, huh?).  Also, Frank Capp drummed on one of the others.
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« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 04:45:44 AM »

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked.  
I guess you might have gathered that my point is, like you, many people assume they are hearing Wrecking Crew musicians on the tracks you chose when in fact the Beach Boys are playing 90% of the instruments on those two tracks. The bass on Fun Fun Fun and on I Get Around is Al Jardine and Ray Pohlman. Carol did play on a number of great BB's tracks, but no where near as many as well meaning fans like you might assume. Don't trust the conventional wisdom because when it comes to who played on BB's sessions new research has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.

Hal Blaine on drums on "Fun, Fun, Fun", right?

Yes, but it appears there's TWO drummers on the basic track, indicating Denny also drummed...Denny DEFINITELY added some more drumming to the overdubs.
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« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2011, 07:07:45 AM »

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked. 
I guess you might have gathered that my point is, like you, many people assume they are hearing Wrecking Crew musicians on the tracks you chose when in fact the Beach Boys are playing 90% of the instruments on those two tracks. The bass on Fun Fun Fun and on I Get Around is Al Jardine and Ray Pohlman. Carol did play on a number of great BB's tracks, but no where near as many as well meaning fans like you might assume. Don't trust the conventional wisdom because when it comes to who played on BB's sessions new research has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.

Hal Blaine on drums on "Fun, Fun, Fun", right?

Yes, but it appears there's TWO drummers on the basic track, indicating Denny also drummed...Denny DEFINITELY added some more drumming to the overdubs.

Interesting. Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 07:09:51 AM by Mark Dillon » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2011, 09:43:41 AM »

The BB were strictly little league when it came to musicianship on instruments - when it came to singing however - they were champions

that's really not true man!  seriously, using session players was standard in the '60s due to studio time constraints, etc ... the beach boys were more than capable players. 
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« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2011, 11:13:14 AM »

The BB were strictly little league when it came to musicianship on instruments - when it came to singing however - they were champions

that's really not true man!  seriously, using session players was standard in the '60s due to studio time constraints, etc ... the beach boys were more than capable players. 
And again...people have assumed for too long that the BB's didn't play on much of their studio stuff, and its not true. They played on the vast majority of the classic '62 to '65 stuff, Surfin USA LP, Surfer girl LP, Little Deuce Coupe LP, Shut Down vol 2 LP, All Summer Long LP are about 80% the Beach Boys with only a few uses of session musicians, mainly Steve Douglas and Jay Migliori on saxes. But the guitars on those LP's are pretty much all Carl with Carl/Dave on the pre '64 stuff. The drums are usually Dennis with a very few cases of him being subbed for, and/or a few cases where he's augmented by Hal on percussion. The bass is Brian on the first two and usually Al but sometimes Brian after that. At times Ray Pohlman adds a second bass. Keyboards are normally Brian, with Bruce on a few of the '65 things. Starting with Today! there are more session players but still BB's on about half the stuff, Summer Days is probably 35% BB's on instruments. Pet Sounds is the first and really only BB's LP dominated almost entirely by session players. Write it in stone.
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« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2011, 11:53:34 AM »

Pet Sounds is the first and really only BB's LP dominated almost entirely by session players. Write it in stone.

and then 15 Big Ones as well as the 80s on, correct?
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« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2011, 12:25:22 PM »

Pet Sounds is the first and really only BB's LP dominated almost entirely by session players. Write it in stone.

and then 15 Big Ones as well as the 80s on, correct?
I think Brian (keyboards) is on nearly all, and Dennis (drums) on the majority of the 15 Big Ones tracks, and Carl plays guitar on several as well. Sorry, I'm no expert on the '80's and beyond.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 12:26:20 PM by Jon Stebbins » Logged
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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2011, 12:37:35 PM »

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked. 

Soon, you'll learn not to voice your opinion on here, because people will tell you you're wrong, or they'll be pricks about it. As you've probably already seen.

Yep, welcome to the SS Board!
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« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2011, 01:27:13 PM »

The whole "The Beach Boys couldn't play their instruments and Carol Kaye/Hal Blaine played on everything" is really just unfortunate run-off from the time when Pet Sounds was the only Beach Boys album that mattered, and the only album really that "anyone" knew from the group and appreciated..... Thankfully those days are behind us, so it's time to move on.....
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« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2011, 01:28:47 PM »

Pet Sounds is the first and really only BB's LP dominated almost entirely by session players. Write it in stone.

and then 15 Big Ones as well as the 80s on, correct?

Credits for each song on the back of the gatefold.
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« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2011, 05:14:20 PM »

Carl & Al are seriously underrated guitarists. And Denny is a POWERFUL drummer. That's evident just listening to the live stuff, although the guitars are seriously underpowered on the early stuff imo. Especiallly compared to the early 70's....
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« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2011, 06:29:21 PM »

Funny that the album where they decide to include detailed and minute technical credits had to be 15 Big Ones!!!!!

I first heard that album via a cassette tape a friend made me, and I'd been told Hal Blaine played on the album, and I can remember figuring ALL the drum tracks must have been him.  I remember listening to those big loping drum fills on Back Home and thinking "Man, that's classic Hal Blaine"!!!!
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