Catbirdman's List: Questions, Answers, Speculation

[Matt Bielewicz]

The list that Catbirdman has put together of ideal 'wants' for the SMiLE box set is amazing - I can't remember seeing such a powerful set of all the stuff I've wondered about regarding SMiLE over the years, all in one place like this before.

That list is too damned good to be wasted on a mere game (though the game is fun too: you'll notice that I've added my two cents in the other thread). So, although I've replied there, I'm starting another thread here for questions, answers and speculation about the material mentioned on that very list, Q&A that don't fit into the framework of the speculative game on the other thread. I have a ton of things I'd love to know about the material on that list, and some pet theories I'd like to get off my chest.

Virtually ALL of the following is pure speculation on my part. I'd love to have solid evidence for some of it… but I don't.

1.   Acetate/mix from May 11 session for Heroes and Villains

This was supposedly erased, I thought, although I wonder if the version of False Barnyard with Mike singing 'When skies are blue' faintly was mixed from that version before the multitrack was zapped. Wasn't there supposed to be a version of H&V with You Are My Sunshine lyrics? Didn't Cam Mott find that out years ago? Anyway, I've always assumed since then it came from the tape of the May 11 'wild' version of H&V. Anyone know differently?

2.   Previously unheard sections from Good Vibrations

Surely, there CAN'T be any more. Unless it's a stack o'vocals mix cleverly processed out of the mono master mix? I think with the SOT volume dedicated to this, and all the bits that have come out on the GV box, Hawthorne CA, the CD single of a few years back, etc, we've heard everything we're ever gonna hear of this one. Not that primo-quality, mastered versions of the key session excerpts and master takes wouldn't go amiss, mind…!

3.   Wind Chimes mix referred to by Michael Vosse

My personal theory: we've already heard this, or something very like it, already. My guess is that it's either the early version similar to that heard on SOT (Take 5, is it?), or a version derived from the same tape as the '93 box set mix, but possibly mixed differently to give more prominence to the tinkling pianos. Add a bit of '67-era Mary-Jane-heightened awareness in the listener, and that's Vosse's Wind Chimes mix, I'd guess.

4.   Vocals for Look/I Ran (Oct 13): I think these were never recorded onto the Look tape; that's my pet theory. I think maybe Brian wrote a vocal section for this, but then co-opted it into Good Vibrations to finish that off ('na na-na-na-na, na-na-na' - you know what I mean). Maybe the clarinets were recorded at this session and then later erased, the ones that Darian heard and restored years later for the 2004 SMiLE. Sheer guesswork on my part, though.

5.   Wonderful with lead vocal and yodeling bvs

I think maybe these vocals were all on the multitrack at different times, but maybe the yodelling vocals were erased when the lead and more 'finished' backing vocals were recorded (the ones you hear in the box set mono mix). My theory is that the yodelling vocals were an early try-out for the BVs, and Brian ditched them later (but created the mix *with* the yodels while they were still on the multitrack, which is how we've heard it).

I reckon we could easily get a mix that incorporates both lead and yodels on the box: I suspect that a mix featuring both would be fairly easy to recreate with today's tech. The yodelling was incorporated into the backing vocals on BW's 2004 version of SMiLE, and it worked quite well, so I think we might well see this done for the new box set. But whether such a mix would be historically accurate is another matter…! Of course, this is all guesswork, so perhaps the yodelling and lead vocals DID belong together in 1966. We may never know…

6.   Cabin Essence previously unheard instrumental section

I'd be surprised to hear anything like this. I reckon it was a session sheet error (there have been plenty, let's face it), and that what we THINK was recorded as Cabin Essence material at that session was actually something else. After all, the incomplete test mixes of Cabin Essence that we hear on boots (the ones that came from acetate, and lack a lead vocal) don't feature any unknown sections. So I bet the fabled Cabin Essence section was ACTUALLY for something else. Or else, the session didn't produce anything useful, and Brian ditched it.

7.   Cabin Essence “reconnected telephone” vocals
Again, pure speculation (like everything I've written so far…)… but I reckon these were supposed to go over the middle verse, and then Van Dyke came up with the 'Truck Driving Man' lyrics for Dennis to sing instead, leaving these unused.

8.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unheard vocals (leads and/or bvs)

There have been persistent rumours that these may have existed: but I reckon if they did, they're long gone as recordings. I have this feeling that these could be parts Brian recorded and erased, either with a view to re-doing them later (which he then never got around to) or because he was unhappy with them for some reason.

9.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unknown lyrics (could be audio, could be just documented lyrics)

Again, rumours have abounded for years that Van Dyke *did* write '66-vintage lyrics for this number (and that they're NOT the lyrics added to this section in 2004). Maybe we'll see a sheet of old lyrics, but I'll bet there's no surviving recording.

10.   I’m In Great Shape vocals

I bet these existed (there were vocal sessions, if I remember rightly, weirdly done *before* the backing track sessions, wasn't it…? Someone help me out here…)… but I bet they've gone from the multitrack. In fact, wasn't IIGS one of the tapes where the vault has a session tape, and then the final (presumably master) take has been snipped off the reel? Or am I getting confused again?

Anyway, whatever: I reckon that unless an acetate test mix was done of these and it's somehow survived, I bet the vocals and master take are probably gone for good.

11.   Significant clues/documentation into the overall structure of I’m In Great Shape

As per 10 above: unless a test mix has survived on an acetate, maybe as a part of a longer H&V mix when IIGS was part of that (Durrie Parks, I'm looking at you!), I bet there's not going to be many clues to this.

12.   Vintage lead vocal for Do You Like Worms

I don't feel hopeful about the possibility of these. I bet these were sessions like Cabin Essence, where lyrics were written, and significant work was done on tracking and BVs, but a finalised lead was never recorded. Unless, again, an early or scratch lead vocal was mixed to acetate, deleted from the multitrack, and the acetate has survived somewhere over the years. Al and Bruce had '…Worms' acetates, though, didn't they…? So maybe, just maybe…

13.   An altogether different recording under the title Do You Like Worms

I'm guessing this stems from Al's comment that the track that was included on the 1993 GV box set as 'Do You Like Worms?'… WASN'T 'Do You You Like Worms?' as HE remembered it. I'm gonna say that I think Al was probably just confused here. But in some ways, it would be lovely to be proven wrong… What if what we've known for years as DYLW was, in fact, ALWAYS called 'Roll Plymouth Rock' …and DYLW is, in fact, something else ALTOGETHER? After all, 'Roll Plymouth Rock' wasn't a 2004 invention - didn't Bruce refer to it by that name in 1978? Or as 'Plymouth Rock', at least?

14.   Any previously unheard spoken recordings/skits

I bet there are more of these, but I can't say I'm terribly excited to hear them if there are. The ones we have heard aren't terribly funny, and would have (being majorly charitable here) needed A LOT of editing to make them worth listening to repeatedly. Even the Vegetables argument, where Hal Blaine's improv humour is occasionally funny, would need to be shredded to a fraction of its length to keep the humour going. Too often, the laughs peter out, or (as with many of the other skits) are just never there in the first place.

According to the forum, my full post is too long, scarily! So I'll split it here...

MattB

[Matt Bielewicz]

Part 2!  

15.   Vintage lead vocal for Barnyard

This strikes me as another possible candidate for a part that may have been recorded as a scratch or early vocal, mixed to acetate, and then deleted from the multitrack (possibly to make way for a better lead recording that never then happened), leaving a vocal-less tape. If so, unless there was such an acetate, and it's survived, I bet we're out of luck. But then again, there was that cryptic run-out groove message on the H&V 78rpm record… so maybe we're *in* luck...

16.   Acetate/mix from fall 1966 version of Heroes and Villains

Oh, I *wish*. Again, if an early test assembly was dubbed to acetate before later re-editing and recording on the multitrack by Brian, and that early acetate survived in someone's garage, say… (who could I be thinking of here? Clue: the name begins with 'D'… and ends with '…urrie Parks'), this *might* come true (and didn't Bruce have an H&V acetate, too?). However, seeing as this would be one of the 'holy grails' of the box set, and we've been led to understand that there probably won't be any of those, I'm guessing that no such recording has survived. But, oh… something incorporating, say, Barnyard, IIGS, and a bar fight… wouldn't it be nice?

17.   Previously unheard instrumental section from Surf’s Up

Again, this is another one of the holy grails, so I bet there's nothing like this on the set. But someone definitely said they'd heard it on one of these boards, years ago. Wasn't it Domenic P? I think it even preceded the SMiLE Shop board… might have been the American Band board in the late 90s. All I can remember in my ailing memory banks is that the poster said that the recording existed, and that it was in the hands of a collector, but that he could not say who it was, or say any more about it. So the whole thing might have been a complete put-on. We may never know, even after this box comes out!

18.   The Nov 29 recording “Jazz”

I seems to recall that this tape survives, and so I bet it would be easy to include the recording on a SMiLE box as a SMiLE-era relic, which it clearly is. But I would be amazed if it has anything to do with SMiLE. Most of the Wrecking Crew were experienced jazz players, so I bet this is just them footling around before the session proper started. It might be good, and it might be fun to hear, but I really think it's not going to be, say, a completed mix of The Elements under another name!


19.   Previously unheard piece pertaining to the Elements

This calls into question the whole issue of what's 'unheard'. There's plenty of SMiLE stuff that we've all known about for years that still hasn't been released on a commercial CD yet, including the only bit of the Elements we know about for sure, Fire. (yeah, I know it's appeared on videos like An American Band and all that, but the original '66 recording still hasn't been out on an official CD, as far as I can remember). It's been strictly boots only. So if we're talking 'unheard' in the commercial domain, then sure, you'll get Fire, at least. If you mean 'unheard' as in 'unheard outside the circle of the most top-level collectors and the official guardians of the BB tape vault', then I'd say this isn't very likely. I do wonder if the different versions of the piece released as 'H&V Intro' on the GV box, the darker ones with weird tuned percussion, had something to do with The Elements. It would be nice to hear those in decent quality(there are a couple, aren't there? I haven't listened to them for years). But who knows if they really did have anything to do with The Elements anyway…?

20.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the air element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be)

Oh, if only. How many times have we all pondered Brian's late-70s quote about it being an unfinished piano piece, and wondered which piece of music that might possibly refer to, or indeed wondered if he was just completely blowing off the interviewer in a late-70s coked-out haze with a quote he'd forgotten he said three minutes later? So much weight has been put on that quote, and so much speculation has derived from it, including my own ('An unfinished piano piece? A-*ha*!! He must mean the tag to Wind Chimes' etc etc), and we don't even know if he was just making something up on the spot to get Byron Preiss (or whoever it was again) off his back so he could get back to his hotel room and his Close Encounters-style mountain of gack. Or whatever…

I really don't know about The Elements — after so many years of wondering, I feel like I'm completely at a loss to speculate about it - but like I said above, I wonder if the 'tuned percussion' versions of H&V intro might have had something to do with the air element. But, really - God alone knows.


21.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the earth element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be)

I really, REALLY think the Earth element was Vega-Tables, and that all the other speculation is spurious. That's just my feeling, and I've thought that way for years. Hence, I would argue, what Frank Holmes wrote in the booklet captions. I know, I know, Vega-Tables is listed separately on the handwritten track-list. I can't explain that, other than to say that it was an error. That's just what I think. There are plenty of really good, well argued counter-arguments, I'm aware. But that's the theory I go with, for better or worse. And there's LOTS more on Vega-Tables (more than the mind can comfortably encompass, in fact) at the end of this discourse (see point 30).

22.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the water element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be)

In a similar fashion to my feelings on Vega-Tables and 'The Elements' (ie I have a gut feeling about this, but nothing to back it up and I'm aware that it flies in the face of many other excellent arguments and at least a *little* solid evidence…), I DON'T think that 'I Love To Say Dada' was the water element. I think it was just the water chant alone; and I think that chant will be on the new box set. I KNOW ILTSDD later evolved into Cool Cool Water, and that DOES have a strong water element. But I don't think ILTSDD was Water in the 66-7 SMiLE, if indeed there ever WAS a clear idea for what Water was going to be back then!

23.   Vocal parts for Old Master Painter and/or You Are My Sunshine

Well, there definitely is that vocal of Dennis's for YAMS which has made it to various boots, and I seem to remember hearing that that came from an acetate. If an acetate of the early May 11 66 'wild' version of H&V has survived down the years, I guess there might be some YAMS vocals on that? (see point 1)

24.   Excerpts from “Ball and Mitt” (Dec 15)

I know what everything on Catbirdman's list is, apart from this. For the love of Wilson, will someone fill me in? It sounds like another skit, but I have literally never heard of it until today. Or [evil thought] is this the 'Here Come De Honey Man' of this list?  

I'll take the next two questions together.

25.   Previously unheard section(s) from Heroes and Villains (for bonus points, speculate on specific sections)

AND

26.   Acetate/mix from 1967 version of Heroes and Villains

Well, what else could there be? The early 'wild' May 11 1966 version, maybe with bits of YAMS lyrics in there, if it's survived on acetate? An autumn assembly from a surviving Bruce acetate, say, maybe with integral edited-in versions of Barnyard and IIGS (possibly with vocals), and a recording of a fight in a cantina? Any of those would do me, but as that probably counts as a 'holy grail', its inclusion in this set is probably unlikely.

That makes the REAL holy grail even more unlikely… a test mix of a two-sided H&V single containing parts I and II, from, say, late February 1967. That would be great, but again, I REALLY think it ain't gonna happen.

There are SO many more questions I could ask about Heroes and Villains.

What was going to be in those part one and part two mixes? OK, so we think that part one was the 'cantina mix', first aired on the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey twofer in 1990. But if so, how come there's a session where the engineer announces that they're recording the tag to something like Take four of a revised version of Heroes and Villains… and then a piano plays something that sounds like the 'Do A Lot' section from Vega-Tables? THAT'S not in the cantina version. Was there ever a full arrangement of *that* section, and if so, where did it go?

And what about all the other bits that might have been in part two? Which ones, and what order do they go in? Where does the solo flutter horn go? What about 'Bridge to Indians', 'Prelude To Fade' (and its missing vocals)  and 'Soul Made Beautiful'? Was there more to 'Gee' instead of just the one line, 'How I love my girl'? Was 'He Gives Speeches' ever part of H&V, and if so, where? Were all the alternate takes of the Heroes and Villains chorus, as heard in the 'H&V (Sections)' track on the GV box set, intended for ONE version of Heroes & Villains, were they link tracks to be scattered throughout the album somehow, or were they just different attempts at getting the H&V chorus right with different feels, from which only one surviving version would eventually have been chosen and used by Brian? Was 'Swedish Frog' supposed to be there, or did Brian excise it himself?

Were the bits of Heroes and Villains I love most of all, namely the harmony sections used in the last minute of the Smiley Smile version ('my children were raised…' and 'sunny down snuff…') only recorded for the Smiley version, or were they recorded during 'prime-time' SMiLE in 66-7? If so, did they sound different then? They simply must have been VDP's lyrics on those sections (who else writes a play on words around 'so long', or indeed comes up with the phrase 'and sunny down snuff I'm alright'), but were they recorded during SMiLE, or did Brian only get around to cutting them in time for the Smiley Smile version? Oh, when it comes to H&V, I could just go on and on…

27.   Dennis Wilson’s “I Don’t Know”

Yum. Oh, yes please. Especially if it's known whether it was to be part of one of the many possible versions of SMiLE or not. But even if it isn't, I'd just like to hear this.

28.   Jasper Dailey recording(s)

I'd love to hear these as bonus tracks. No WAY are they SMiLE, but they were recorded during the sessions, like 'Jazz', so I say sure, bring it on. If possible.

29.   Previously unheard material from Carl’s “Tones”

Oh please, yes. I want to hear a more finished version of this tune even more than I'd like to hear 'I Don't Know'. There's SO much promise in the incomplete versions on Secret SMiLE. I'm far from sure if it was going to be for SMiLE, which seems to have been so much exclusively Brian's project,  and to have been referred to by all the other Beach Boys as such for years afterwards — but as this was recorded in the right time frame, I'd love to hear it. Actually, even if there ISN'T any more available than we've heard on Secret SMiLE, I'd still like the incomplete versions from there in primo quality.

30.   Previously unheard material from the April Vega-Tables sessions

Oh, God, again, yes, PLEASE. Vega-Tables is one of the greatest mysteries of SMiLE to me, and perhaps all the more so because it's been much less picked over than, say, Heroes and Villains, Cabin Essence, or Surf's Up. Most SMiLE scholars seem to skim past it, perhaps because there's a version of it on the GV box set that seems to make sense, and there's also lots of session material included on the SOT discs. But for me, all that material does is add to the confusion. It seems to me that we still know SO little about how the finished version of this song might have been structured.

Here's why. As I see it, anyway.

As I understand it, by April '67 Brian had the art of modular recording down pat, and was into recording (say) the backing for just one verse and one chorus of a song, and then recording a whole different set of vocals and overdubs on the adjacent tape tracks. Even though you only have one verse and one chorus, you can still mix a song out of this (maybe with the addition of a spliced-in bridge, if the song has one).

Your verse backing section has a set of vocals for both verse 1 AND verse two on different tracks. You mix one pass of it with the fader for the vocals on the first verse up, then you mix again, this time with the vocals for the second verse active - ALL MIXED FROM THE SAME BASIC SECTION OF TAPE. If you want to get complicated (and on Vega-Tables, Brian *did*), you also have a whole bunch of other overdubs on this section that you can call on to mix third and fourth verses if necessary, or which can be added or left out on each of the mixing passes. On Vega-Tables, there's laughter, bizarre percussion, all sorts of wordless Beach Boys harmony vocals and 'tuned laughter' harmony melodies, weird vegetable crunching and tearing effects, and some band members having coughing fits.

So if you know what you're doing, you run as many passes as you want verses, including those elements that are right for the section you're mixing. Let's say, in a completely made-up example of my own invention, that Brian decided that Verse 1 would consist of the verse backing (the piano), the verse 1 vocal ('I'm gonna be round my vegetables…') and the strange percussion (the tuned stuff and that 'floppy board' thingy that you hear at the end of the verse vocal). So he mixes that with those faders up.

Then he mixes verse 2 from the same piece of tape, but this time the mix pass includes other stuff: the verse 2 vocal 'I tried to kick the ball…', the crunching vegetables, and different Beach Boys backing vocals (the 'laughter' harmony vocals and group block harmonies, both of which sound at different times). And maybe other tape tracks, like the band laughing or coughing. Or maybe you keep those tracks muted at this stage, and only use them for an otherwise instrumental *third* verse.

When you're done with the passes necessary to create the verses, you mix the choruses, choosing your selection of active overdubs for each of those passes equally carefully. And then you splice the different passes together in the order you want to build the song, adding any other sections (such as a bridge or tag) at this stage too.

That's a valid way to make a record, and many people started doing that as a matter of course in the 1970s and 80s; making complete songs from little fragments of songs with different selections of overdubs. Remixing was originally all about doing that; splicing longer versions of existing tunes together from different sections of the song with added or subtracted overdubs, in the days before digital recording made it easy to completely deconstruct songs and reassemble them in a TOTALLY different form.

So here Brian was *really* ahead of his time, production-wise. The problem is: if you don't leave careful notes about precisely which overdubs you plan to include or omit in each part of the song, and the section mixdowns you've made go missing or are junked, and you never complete a master edit of the whole thing, and ALSO, in the meantime, with the passage of years and an AWFUL lot of depression and drugs, you FORGET which overdubs were going to be included on which section, then it's VERY hard to work out afterwards how the completed, edited song was going to sound. Or indeed, which order the pieces were going to be included in. And, therefore, it's hard to mix something years later which is sure to conform to your original intentions for the track, even if you have the multitrack, which it seems are still around for most of the Vega-Tables sessions.

And as I understand it, that's pretty much the situation with Vega-Tables, although I'd love to be corrected if that's wrong. In fact, as I understand it, it's EVEN MORE complicated than that, because there AREN'T merely multitrack mix sections for the verse and chorus of Vega-Tables, there are all sorts of sections, which, as with Heroes and Villains, MAY all have been intended to have been included by Brian in the finished Vega-Tables track. But it's also possible that some of them are re-records because he wasn't happy with the earlier versions, and that they weren't all supposed to be in one version together. So, for example, there are fast and slow versions of the 'Do A Lot' sections, differently arranged. Some are piano driven and quite fast (like the one that ended up in between the verses on the box set mix) with Beach Boys group vocals. Some are xylophone-driven and fast. And one is organ-driven and slow (the one that has the Beach Boys chanting 'de ulla, de ulla' and 'row, row row row' which was featured near the end of the '93 box set mix, before the crossfade, of which more in a moment).

There's also the slow, beautiful close harmony section used to close Vega-Tables in BW's 2004 SMiLE, and used in the Smiley Smile version ('I know that you'll feel better…'). Where was THAT supposed to go? And finally, just to complete the picture of total confusion, there's that utterly fantastic piece of music (for me, it's fully the equal in stature to the tag to Cabin Essence) that is supposedly identified as the 'Tag' to 'Vegetables', which can be heard in full on the SOT discs. Well, at least the 'tag' descriptor makes it FAIRLY certain that it was supposed to go at the END of the song. But how? I've never heard a version or fan edit of Vegetables that satisfactorily attaches the 'tag' to the rest of the song. Mark Linett crossfaded it on for the mix on the 1993 box set, and we know that wouldn't have been the plan in 1966-7, because crossfades weren't the done thing back then (except maybe for The Elements, according to AGD).

And there may have been yet more sections. I seem to recall Mark Linett saying on a message board once that the version of Vega-Tables on the 1993 box set was mixed from tapes that had mostly resulted from just one day's recording. We know that there were several 'patches' of sessions for Vega-Tables, although some of them may have been for what we would now call the Smiley Smile version of the song. How many other sections, or versions of sections, for Vega-Tables were there, exactly? We may not have heard all of the pieces. There don't seem to be any documented sessions for the early 'cornucopia' version of the song for example; I thought the rumour was that that version dates back to 1966. If that's true, what else was recorded at THOSE sessions?

In short, mixing *A* version of Vegetables is possible, and many people have (including the '93 GV box set version we all know well, and numerous fan edits), but it seems to me that it's one of the tracks where the originally intended structure is possibly the most obscure: the exact arrangement of the vocals and other overdubs on each verse, the choice of the different 'Do A Lot' sections, the exact nature of the connection to the 'tag' section, and the placement of the beautiful close-harmony section (if it was due to be in a SMiLE version at all, that is).

Actually, this confused situation is also true of Wind Chimes for exactly the same kind of reasons (should the bridge from the early Wind Chimes session ('Take 5') be included, as in the 2004 version? Was the 'whispering winds' section, also included in the 2004 version and Smiley Smile, ever going to be part of the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes, or was that not recorded until the Smiley Smile sessions…? Again, I could go on…). However, the higher number of alternate sections and the quantity of optional overdubs *on* the different sections for Vega-Tables makes it much harder to figure out Brian Wilson's intentions for this track 44 years later, I think.

UNLESS, of course, the vault hunt of recent years has unearthed copious session notes about the original intentions for Vega-Tables (unlikely - Brian doesn't seem to have been very good at making those kinds of notes, during SMiLE… or ever!), or (perhaps less unlikely) if the hunt has unearthed further edited versions that were mixed back in 1967. Then we might know more.

Write-in item(s):

• Clarification on whether any of the non-Smiley Smile, upbeat 'long round' repeating versions of 'With Me Tonight' were ever intended for SMiLE. Or whether those versions were even recorded during the SMiLE timeframe, or later, say in June 1967, for Smiley Smile. I'd love to know, actually, if the opening section of the Smiley Smile version of 'With Me Tonight' (up to and including Arnie Geller's 'Gooooooooood!!!!!') was actually from a SMiLE session. I've heard (as I'm sure many of you have…) a boot of endlessly repeated attempts to get this bit right where Brian seems VERY concerned with not blowing the harmonies, and given what he later let pass on the laughing, 'refreshed' opening of Smiley's 'Little Pad', it seems to me more likely that this dates to SMiLE than Smiley.

• '66-7-vintage edits or trial mixes of the following tracks, which help to throw light on what the intended structures might have been for these numbers:

(a Vega-Tables

(b Wind Chimes

(c I Wanna Be Around/Workshop

The internal structure of the last of these is fairly unambiguous, but what was it supposed to go *with*? It would be easy to find a home for 'Workshop' as a tag on something, and dismiss IWBA as a short cover that wasn't going to make the final cut — except that the two were *definitely* edited together in 1966. The assembly, which was retained on the 2004 SMiLE, makes placement much more unwieldy and difficult. And then, of course, there's that bloody session sheet which suggests that it was in some way part of 'I'm In Great Shape'. Was it, or wasn't it, and if so, how? It would be LOVELY to lay that issue to rest. Who knows if we'll be able to do that, though.

In fact, I will be very surprised if the box set answers many of these questions, let alone all of them. I think there's going to be an awful lot that doesn't tie up neatly, unfortunately. Maybe SMiLE is destined to remain an unknowable Zen koan after all…

MattB

[hypehat]

That's a hell of a post!

I think there is a lot of stuff that has been mislabelled, filed incorrectly, or plain lost in the vaults until Boyd and Linett's sorting of it in the last decade. What that will entail, I don't know - I suspect we'll get a few more session tapes and lots of mixes. Hopefully we'll get lots of vocal sessions. You also seem to think Brian's wiped a lot of things, which I suspect not. I may just be more optimistic than you 

FYI, 'Ball & Mitt' is apparently a recently found recording of Brian and Dennis chucking a ball about in the studio.

[homeontherange]

3.   Wind Chimes mix referred to by Michael Vosse

My personal theory: we've already heard this, or something very like it, already. My guess is that it's either the early version similar to that heard on SOT (Take 5, is it?), or a version derived from the same tape as the '93 box set mix, but possibly mixed differently to give more prominence to the tinkling pianos. Add a bit of '67-era Mary-Jane-heightened awareness in the listener, and that's Vosse's Wind Chimes mix, I'd guess.

MattB

I think so too. This is my favourite version of Wind Chimes, with the tinkling pianos and the awesome dark groove through out the song, and I'm really curious why more people don't use this for their own mixes. I really hope this ends up mixed with vocals on the box set!

21.   Significant new clues/documentation into what comprised the earth element (for bonus point, speculate on specifics of what that element turns out to be)

I really, REALLY think the Earth element was Vega-Tables, and that all the other speculation is spurious. That's just my feeling, and I've thought that way for years. Hence, I would argue, what Frank Holmes wrote in the booklet captions. I know, I know, Vega-Tables is listed separately on the handwritten track-list. I can't explain that, other than to say that it was an error. That's just what I think. There are plenty of really good, well argued counter-arguments, I'm aware. But that's the theory I go with, for better or worse. And there's LOTS more on Vega-Tables (more than the mind can comfortably encompass, in fact) at the end of this discourse (see point 30).

But why would ONE out of the four elements pieces include lyrics? I always thought The Elements was a suite including four short instrumental pieces. I think it'd feel weird and out of place to suddenly have a bunch of vocals and lyrics in between Fire and Water Chant. The Elements is sound effects and instruments to me, and I think that's what Brian was thinking. I'm not really sure what EARTH would be, but I'm thinking one of those alternate H&V intros, and AIR would be Holidays, or vice-versa? 

[Matt Bielewicz]

Yes, I know. It *doesn't* really make sense to have lyrics in the Elements in the form of Vega-Tables, does it? Like I said, I'm aware of the well-reasoned counter-arguments, and that is one of the best!

I recall someone suggesting that an early, lyric-less version of Vega-Tables was maybe going to be in the Elements, and that's why the caption to the Frank Holmes drawing says: My Vega-Tables: The Elements. And then Brian and Van wrote lyrics and that made the song into its own track. And yes, I'm aware that this doesn't really make sense either. If there were no lyrics yet, how could the Homes caption read 'My Vega-Tables', as those are clearly part of the later lyrics?

...it IS a bloody incomprehensible Zen koan, I'm telling you!

MattB

PS Oh, and hypehat, thanks for the clarification about Ball & Mitt. So that's not a completed 12-minute Heroes And Villains under another name, either...! And I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all the vocals being erased too, just as much as you do...!

[homeontherange]

FYI, 'Ball & Mitt' is apparently a recently found recording of Brian and Dennis chucking a ball about in the studio.

Sounds like fun!

[homeontherange]

Yes, I know. It *doesn't* really make sense to have lyrics in the Elements in the form of Vega-Tables, does it? Like I said, I'm aware of the well-reasoned counter-arguments, and that is one of the best!

I recall someone suggesting that an early, lyric-less version of Vega-Tables was maybe going to be in the Elements, and that's why the caption to the Frank Holmes drawing says: My Vega-Tables: The Elements. And then Brian and Van wrote lyrics and that made the song into its own track. And yes, I'm aware that this doesn't really make sense either. If there were no lyrics yet, how could the Homes caption read 'My Vega-Tables', as those are clearly part of the later lyrics?

That makes sense. But then you'd have to skip the amazing vocals right? And you wouldn't wanna do that.

What do you think about Holidays being either AIR or EARTH?

[Matt Bielewicz]

What do you think about Holidays being either AIR or EARTH?

Mmmm... I'm not sure about that. There's nothing at all that links Holidays to Earth as far as I can see, and I always had a sense that people often chose Holidays as a possible candidate for Air because they simply didn't know of many other pieces back then that Air could have been (I first became aware of the suggestion in Dave Prokopy's notes in the mid-90s, which was before the SOTs came out and before Endless Harmony or the discovery of - partial? - lyrics for IIGS, when there were far fewer known SMiLE bits in circulation). See, if you're definitely working with all the pieces in the jigsaw, and you're narrowing down the possible pieces that could fit in the remaining holes, that kind of thing is a fair assumption. But, as it turns out, there are *loads* more pieces to Smile, many of which I suspect we *still* don't even know about today. So who's to say that Air wasn't something we've NEVER found? Plus, Brian himself said (possibly unreliably, admittedly) that it was a piano instrumental. Making Holidays fit that description is a bit of a reach.

Of course, two things do 'sort of' link Holidays to Air - it uses whistles, and the melody for the tag was LATER used in the Smiley Smile version of Wind Chimes. And THAT has an Air connection ('from the wind', innit?). But I think it's a mistake to assume because something is linked together on Smiley Smile, that there was *necessarily* a similar connection envisaged for SMiLE. After all, 'Keeni Wak A Pula' doesn't mean 'Remember The Night, Remember The Day' or 'Whistle In' (or indeed, mean anything at all), a Little Pad isn't a Cabin (with or without added Essence), and Fall and Winter have little to do with the Elements (or a fire in Chicago).

Besides, if you're going to say Holidays was Air because part of it ended up in a 'windy' track on Smiley Smile, then why not just pick the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes as Air, and cut out Holidays altogether? Although Wind Chimes, of course, is a separate track on the hand-written list... [sound of grinding teeth...].

MattB

[Chris Moise]

According to the forum, my full post is too long, scarily! So I'll split it here...

MattB

Absolutely amazing post Matt. I feel like I need a cigarette after reading that.

[buddhahat]

Good idea for a thread and just what we need to build excitement for this release. Busy now but looking forward to reading later - thanks Matt & Catbirdman!

[Catbirdman]

Yikes, so much meat in one post. My responses below:

1.   Acetate/mix from May 11 session for Heroes and Villains
This was supposedly erased, I thought, although I wonder if the version of False Barnyard with Mike singing 'When skies are blue' faintly was mixed from that version before the multitrack was zapped. Wasn't there supposed to be a version of H&V with You Are My Sunshine lyrics? Didn't Cam Mott find that out years ago? …

I’m on exactly the same page as Matt here on all points. Hopefully Cam or someone will chime in regarding the source for the speculation that this early version of H&V contained material from YAMS.

2.   Previously unheard sections from Good Vibrations
Surely, there CAN'T be any more…

Agreed. I’m guessing there might be something on the box that hasn’t been officially released before, but I’d be surprised if it hasn’t ever been booted before.

3.   Wind Chimes mix referred to by Michael Vosse
My personal theory: we've already heard this...

I think it’s related to version on SOT 17 with the staggered count-ins. Not sure if the actual mix Michael heard was more fully crafted or not. I’m guessing no on this one.

4.   Vocals for Look/I Ran (Oct 13)
I think these were never recorded onto the Look tape; that's my pet theory. I think maybe Brian wrote a vocal section for this, but then co-opted it into Good Vibrations to finish that off ('na na-na-na-na, na-na-na' - you know what I mean). Maybe the clarinets were recorded at this session and then later erased, the ones that Darian heard and restored years later for the 2004 SMiLE. Sheer guesswork on my part, though.

Really interesting speculation there, but I think the later date of the Oct 13 session (three days after the single release of “Good Vibrations”), and that fact that it was clearly documented as a vocal session at Columbia, indicates that it was vocals, not the clarinet part, that was recorded, and that the vocals were different from anything in the released version of GV.

5.   Wonderful with lead vocal and yodeling bvs
My theory is that the yodelling vocals were an early try-out for the BVs, and Brian ditched them later (but created the mix *with* the yodels while they were still on the multitrack, which is how we've heard it)…

I thought someone had confirmed the yodels were actually recorded later, circa December. Anyone? Do we know?

6.   Cabin Essence previously unheard instrumental section
…I reckon it was a session sheet error (there have been plenty, let's face it), and that what we THINK was recorded as Cabin Essence material at that session was actually something else...

Oddly enough I had never considered that possibility but that’s a great point.

7.   Cabin Essence “reconnected telephone” vocals
…I reckon these were supposed to go over the middle verse, and then Van Dyke came up with the 'Truck Driving Man' lyrics for Dennis to sing instead, leaving these unused.

I like this idea a lot, but the lyrics themselves are very difficult rhythmically to get a handle on. In any case, the fact that AGD recently gave one of his cryptic responses (something along the lines of: “just because we haven’t heard them doesn’t mean they were never recorded”) has given me a gut feeling that we might see these pop up on the box set.

8.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unheard vocals (leads and/or bvs)
There have been persistent rumours that these may have existed: but I reckon if they did, they're long gone as recordings…
9.   Child Is Father Of The Man previously unknown lyrics (could be audio, could be just documented lyrics)
Again, rumours have abounded for years that Van Dyke *did* write '66-vintage lyrics for this number (and that they're NOT the lyrics added to this section in 2004). Maybe we'll see a sheet of old lyrics, but I'll bet there's no surviving recording.

I’ve pretty much given up on getting any fresh insights into this song vocal-wise. When I first heard the SMiLE music back in 1995, CIFOTM was an immediate favorite, and I longed more than anything else to hear lead vocals. There is so much potential here. The BWPS version was a severe disappointment, I felt. The pessimist in me says that we will hear nothing new on the box set, and that they will wimp out and will not push Van Dyke on the matter.

10.   I’m In Great Shape vocals
I bet these existed (there were vocal sessions, if I remember rightly, weirdly done *before* the backing track sessions, wasn't it…? but I bet they've gone from the multitrack. In fact, wasn't IIGS one of the tapes where the vault has a session tape, and then the final (presumably master) take has been snipped off the reel? …

You’re right that the vocal session (Oct 17) was logged BEFORE the instrumental track was recorded (Oct 27, under the H&V title, per Alan Boyd). You’re also right that the final take was snipped off the reel, at least I recall hearing that too.

11.   Significant clues/documentation into the overall structure of I’m In Great Shape
As per 10 above: unless a test mix has survived on an acetate, maybe as a part of a longer H&V mix when IIGS was part of that (Durrie Parks, I'm looking at you!), I bet there's not going to be many clues to this.

My gut tells me that we won’t be seeing anything IIGS-related on the box, but if we do, I agree it would come from an acetate source.

More later. Thanks for the conversation-starter, Matt. Good stuff.

[Jason]

I hope they have some bits of the April 1967 Wonderful on the box set; somehow this seems to have skipped our scholarly discussions in this great thread.

[Bicyclerider]

Yikes, so much meat in one post. My responses below:

1.   Acetate/mix from May 11 session for Heroes and Villains
This was supposedly erased, I thought, although I wonder if the version of False Barnyard with Mike singing 'When skies are blue' faintly was mixed from that version before the multitrack was zapped. Wasn't there supposed to be a version of H&V with You Are My Sunshine lyrics? Didn't Cam Mott find that out years ago? …

I’m on exactly the same page as Matt here on all points. Hopefully Cam or someone will chime in regarding the source for the speculation that this early version of H&V contained material from YAMS.

This came from a book written by Al Kooper, who was at the May 11 session.  I have the quote at home somewhere.  It's probably on a post on this board somewhere!

[Cam Mott]

Al describes in his book how Brian played him a version of GV on tape or acetate and then a version of H&V on the piano or something like that. Maybe the H&V was on tape or acetate too. Oh yeah, he says it was the week before the release of Pet Sounds I believe. Any ways, Al told me in e-mail that it was an unusual arrangement of variations on YAMS. That's from memory. Don't trust it.

I remember he met VDP on that trip and somebody [Anderle?] described Al as the East Coast VDP or maybe it was VDP as the West Al Cooper.

[Matt Bielewicz]

Ah, the April Wonderful. Well, it's not here so far for two reasons: it wasn't in Catbirdman's list, and also I forgot all about it!

So remind me... the slow, piano-led versions of Wonderful on the Smiley Smile SOT, the three tracks that preceed the sessions for what is clearly the Smiley version of Wonderful: that's the April version, isn't it? With incomplete backing vocals and no lead?

Are they any other versions or bits of that April version, or more complete mixes that haven't been booted but are 'known about'? Or is that apparently all there ever was of that?

There are plenty of other impenetrable SMiLE conundra: I've begun to think of a few since beginning this thread. How can we reconcile the two completely different versions of Child Is Father Of The Man (or is it impossible)? There are the sessions that produced the versions of the backing track that we're all familiar with, the arrangement that was eventually used for the 2004 SMiLE re-record. But there are also the piano-led versions heard on SOT 16 (with the super-high falsetto 'Chi-i-ild' vocals). Were they supposed to go with the other bits of CIFOTM backing in some way, or did the 'BWPS version' replace the piano-led arrangements in Brian's mind, just as the January 'Rock With Me Henry' version of Wonderful replaced the harpsichord box set version in January 67? Given that we don't (well... that is... *I* don't) know the dates of the piano-led CIFOTM, it's even possible that the piano-led version is a later one than the sections recorded in October '66. Wasn't there some suggestion here recently that the piano version was an April '67 recording? I always assumed the piano version might be a Brian demo, but it might well be a later attempt than the October arrangement, with a more stripped-back approach.

I'm sure I can think of plenty more irreconcilables, if I put my mind to it...!

MattB

[Matt Bielewicz]

Wow, thanks Bicycle Rider, and Cam. I always wondered where the idea came from that the May 11 H&V had bits of YAMS in it. Now I know!

YAMS as in You Are My Sunshine, obviously. Not yams as in the root vegetable. (Alan Boyd: "We tried listening back to the legendary May 11 1966 recording of H&V, but Brian had smeared sweet potato all over the reel so that no-one would ever be able to hear it again...")

MattB

[Jason]

Ah, the April Wonderful. Well, it's not here so far for two reasons: it wasn't in Catbirdman's list, and also I forgot all about it!

So remind me... the slow, piano-led versions of Wonderful on the Smiley Smile SOT, the three tracks that preceed the sessions for what is clearly the Smiley version of Wonderful: that's the April version, isn't it? With incomplete backing vocals and no lead?

Are they any other versions or bits of that April version, or more complete mixes that haven't been booted but are 'known about'? Or is that apparently all there ever was of that?

There are plenty of other impenetrable SMiLE conundra: I've begun to think of a few since beginning this thread. How can we reconcile the two completely different versions of Child Is Father Of The Man (or is it impossible)? There are the sessions that produced the versions of the backing track that we're all familiar with, the arrangement that was eventually used for the 2004 SMiLE re-record. But there are also the piano-led versions heard on SOT 16 (with the super-high falsetto 'Chi-i-ild' vocals). Were they supposed to go with the other bits of CIFOTM backing in some way, or did the 'BWPS version' replace the piano-led arrangements in Brian's mind, just as the January 'Rock With Me Henry' version of Wonderful replaced the harpsichord box set version in January 67? Given that we don't (well... that is... *I* don't) know the dates of the piano-led CIFOTM, it's even possible that the piano-led version is a later one than the sections recorded in October '66. Wasn't there some suggestion here recently that the piano version was an April '67 recording? I always assumed the piano version might be a Brian demo, but it might well be a later attempt than the October arrangement, with a more stripped-back approach.

I'm sure I can think of plenty more irreconcilables, if I put my mind to it...!

MattB

Tracks 2 and 3 on the Smiley Smile SOT are from the April sessions, with takes 4 and 5 and a partial vocal overdub. I don't know of any other mixes that are "out there", but considering that it's a Smile session it should at least be noted on the box set. I don't recall it ever being mixed at all let alone finished.

[Mikie]

Don't want to get off track here, but has anyone here heard the version of Vegetables that has the "Cornucopia" lyrics in it? I wonder if it will be released. I can't remember if it's been booted or not - would someone point me in the right direction if it indeed exists?

Sorry for the dumb question - I'm allowed one, right?

[Catbirdman]

Ah, the April Wonderful. Well, it's not here so far for two reasons: it wasn't in Catbirdman's list, and also I forgot all about it!

It wasn't in my original list because I too forgot all about it! Thank you Real Beach Boy for reminding us all.

So remind me... the slow, piano-led versions of Wonderful on the Smiley Smile SOT, the three tracks that preceed the sessions for what is clearly the Smiley version of Wonderful: that's the April version, isn't it? With incomplete backing vocals and no lead?

Yep, those are the ones.

Are they any other versions or bits of that April version, or more complete mixes that haven't been booted but are 'known about'? Or is that apparently all there ever was of that?

Within the larger collector circuit, no. That said, there may be a new underground that I am not a part of (I've been out of that loop since 2004) that may have heard things I haven't.

[Catbirdman]

Don't want to get off track here, but has anyone here heard the version of Vegetables that has the "Cornucopia" lyrics in it? I wonder if it will be released. I can't remember if it's been booted or not - would someone point me in the right direction if it indeed exists?

Sorry for the dumb question - I'm allowed one, right?

That version IIRC circulated widely on the internet back in, oh, 2001-ish? For a while I don't think it appeared on a physical bootleg, but I think it eventually did, on Archeology. Just going by memory here, and the memory cheats. A few different sources of this piece were also on the "Secret SMiLE" title that circulated widely (to my chagrin) back in 2004.

[Mikie]

Thanks!  I have both of those and I'll check 'em.

[Jason]

Don't want to get off track here, but has anyone here heard the version of Vegetables that has the "Cornucopia" lyrics in it? I wonder if it will be released. I can't remember if it's been booted or not - would someone point me in the right direction if it indeed exists?

Secret Smile, been booted since 2004, circulated since the late 90s.

Sorry for the dumb question - I'm allowed one, right?

Take that up with Fishmonk.

[LostArt]

How can we reconcile the two completely different versions of Child Is Father Of The Man (or is it impossible)? There are the sessions that produced the versions of the backing track that we're all familiar with, the arrangement that was eventually used for the 2004 SMiLE re-record. But there are also the piano-led versions heard on SOT 16 (with the super-high falsetto 'Chi-i-ild' vocals). Were they supposed to go with the other bits of CIFOTM backing in some way, or did the 'BWPS version' replace the piano-led arrangements in Brian's mind, just as the January 'Rock With Me Henry' version of Wonderful replaced the harpsichord box set version in January 67? Given that we don't (well... that is... *I* don't) know the dates of the piano-led CIFOTM, it's even possible that the piano-led version is a later one than the sections recorded in October '66. Wasn't there some suggestion here recently that the piano version was an April '67 recording? I always assumed the piano version might be a Brian demo, but it might well be a later attempt than the October arrangement, with a more stripped-back approach.

Yeah, that's a good question.  The version on the BWPS is in a minor key, and the stripped-back piano version is in a major key.  I've got no idea when each version was recorded. 

[Curtis Leon]

Don't want to get off track here, but has anyone here heard the version of Vegetables that has the "Cornucopia" lyrics in it? I wonder if it will be released. I can't remember if it's been booted or not - would someone point me in the right direction if it indeed exists?

Sorry for the dumb question - I'm allowed one, right?

That version IIRC circulated widely on the internet back in, oh, 2001-ish? For a while I don't think it appeared on a physical bootleg, but I think it eventually did, on Archeology. Just going by memory here, and the memory cheats. A few different sources of this piece were also on the "Secret SMiLE" title that circulated widely (to my chagrin) back in 2004.

Yes, Archeology and Secret Smile both have them. It was also used in the wonderful, wonderful Smile mix by pancakerecords.

[Mikie]

There we go, Secret Smile, yeah, thanks doods! Tracks 18, 19, 20 (stereo).
 
Tripped on a cornucopia
Stripped the stalk green and I hope ya
like me the most of all
my favorite vegetable.

I tried to kick the ball but my tennie flew right off
I'm red as a beet 'cause I got some mustard.

Edit: Hey, "Little Red Book" is on "Secret Smile" too!  I haven't listened to this in years!


I also just listened to a boot I forgot I had called "The Beach Boys & Paul McCartney - Vegetables" (NMR004 Nowhereman Records),
39 tracks of Vegetables sessions.