Classic Rock Outtakes Industry:where do we go from here?

[Boiled Egg]

The Beatles (hacked) multis (Google 'Beatles MOGGs' if you're interested) are mainly (or entirely - I haven't probed them
all) 10-track recordings, so quite a lot of fudging and blending has taken place. The few extant, untouched multis are far more revealing: the missing bars from 'She's Leaving Home,' for instance.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if messable-with multitracks form the next chapter of the Great Reselling of Albums We've Owned Several Times Already. Hasn't Bowie done it? There are separations of Space Oddity on Spotify.

[guitarfool2002]

The Beatles (hacked) multis (Google 'Beatles MOGGs' if you're interested) are mainly (or entirely - I haven't probed them
all) 10-track recordings, so quite a lot of fudging and blending has taken place. The few extant, untouched multis are far more revealing: the missing bars from 'She's Leaving Home,' for instance.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if messable-with multitracks form the next chapter of the Great Reselling of Albums We've Owned Several Times Already. Hasn't Bowie done it? There are separations of Space Oddity on Spotify.

Oh yes, Bowie did that officially and released those Space Oddity tracks on 8 separate tracks! That was so cool, I have them and love to hear the Stylophone and guitars as separate tracks.

I think that is one of the ways they'll keep classic albums alive. You can only re-master something so many times, and after buying 5 copies of the same album it becomes pointless. The next step would be giving you the multitracks and you can create your own mixes. Hours of fun that some people have been enjoying already without the record companies' involvement... And unfortunately modern albums which have dozens upon dozens of tracks might be a tougher sell because of the sheer volume of material for one song.

It sounds like the Beatles MOGGs are summed together just like the other RockBand/GH tunes. I'll have to look around, I figured by now someone would have cracked them open. Very cool.

I also enjoyed hearing the "Love" surround tracks on their own. That was a tease for what they could do in the future with the Beatles multitracks.

[PhilCohen]

"The upcoming Queen reissues have raided the vaults"

foder, no!

If they mean by sicking out the b side to "Seven seas of Rhye" and a handfull of live tracks then yes the vaults have been well and truly emptied. 

The drastic reconstruction techniques that were neccessary on Queen's posthumous "Made in Heaven" album suggest that the group didn't really have many unreleased songs.

Made in Heaven was 90% of the material Queen were working on when Freddie died. It was due to be their next album release. It was never intended to be an outtakes package. There used to be a huge glut of working sessions from the Queen II era on youtube, these should have seen the light of day. The only real wothwhile stuff that the reissues have thrown up is the De Lane Lea demos from Queen I.

"I Was Born to Love You" and "Made in Heaven" use the same vocals from Freddie's disco-flavored solo album "Mr.Bad Guy" , but with new Rock backing tracks by Brian May, John Deacon & Roger Taylor. "Heaven For Everyone" is a reworking of a song by Roger Taylor's spinoff band "The Cross"(albeit a track with a Freddie Mercury guest appearance). You'll note that producer/engineer Mack gets credited in the booklet. That's because several tracks are outtakes from "The Game" & "Hot Space". In the year when the group released "Live Killers", neither EMI or Elektra were willing to release a studio album in the same year. But the group had recorded 10 songs with Mack. Then the group recorded 10 more songs with Mack the next year. The album "The Game" was the 10 best of the 20 tracks, and one more song was used as a B-side. That left 9 more songs, which were used on "Hot Space" & "Made in Heaven". Freddie DID record 2 final tracks with the group, and he also left behind two piano/vocal performances, with the idea that the other members would overdub onto them after he died. But "Made in Heaven" is indeed mainly an outtakes album. "Queen" is nearly a spent force in the outtakes department.

[Mike's Beard]

I remember an interview with Brian May where he stated that they would be "putting out an EP of stuff recorded with Freddie just before he died". He implied that this would be all new recent stuff. Obviously, Made in Heaven was then padded out to full length album size. I was aware of the history behind the remakes of the two Mr Bad Guy tracks and the rerecording of the track for Freddie's vocal on The Cross b side. Too Much love will Kill You was an outtake from The Miracle and My Life has been Saved was a b side to a Miracle era single. Wasn't It's a Beautiful Day started in the late 70's? That leaves..... Christ, when you whittle it down VERY little of the album contained 'new' stuff!!! I stand corrected.

Still, there has to be something from the Queen I to Jazz era still in the vaults?

[Les P]

it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

I'm with you there.  I can hardly listen to Disk 2 because of the editing.  Along with SFF, there is that anti-climactic "chatter" ending to ADITL (why not the discarded "Hum" ending?) and while they presented the Mr Kite tag in glorious improved sound, they chose to fade it early.  I believe there were others similar botched.  Why?  Why?  At the time Paul was concerned that these alternate versions would be confused with the "standard" versions, so maybe he intentionally wanted them butchered up?  Regardless, a squandered opportunity.

[GuyOnTheBeach]

The Beatles Rockband files are on 5 stereo tracks, Drums, Bass, Lead Guitar, Vocals and everything else. That extra stereo track features the stuff which isn't being played (Here Comes The Sun has the orchestra, synthesizers and mellotron), some tracks which have 2 guitar tracks have one of the guitars on this channel, when a song switches between the playable guitar track, there is a swap (as in the guitar which is no longer being played is switched to the extra track, while the guitar on that track is moved to the lead track.).

[SurfRiderHawaii]

"Wouldn't it be nice to live again" is the BB's "Leave my kitten alone".

Unlike "Wouldn't it be nice to live again", I have "LMKA" in my collection.  It's good but not, from what I understand, in the league of "WIBNTLA".

A Dennis double CD of BB material, released and not, would be wonderful.  But I doubt it's ever going to happen.  Why - A. Mike's ego    B. "WIBNTLA" and others will be used to help sell future BB sets.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

The Beatles (hacked) multis (Google 'Beatles MOGGs' if you're interested) are mainly (or entirely - I haven't probed them
all) 10-track recordings, so quite a lot of fudging and blending has taken place. The few extant, untouched multis are far more revealing: the missing bars from 'She's Leaving Home,' for instance.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if messable-with multitracks form the next chapter of the Great Reselling of Albums We've Owned Several Times Already. Hasn't Bowie done it? There are separations of Space Oddity on Spotify.

Oh yes, Bowie did that officially and released those Space Oddity tracks on 8 separate tracks! That was so cool, I have them and love to hear the Stylophone and guitars as separate tracks.

I think that is one of the ways they'll keep classic albums alive. You can only re-master something so many times, and after buying 5 copies of the same album it becomes pointless. The next step would be giving you the multitracks and you can create your own mixes. Hours of fun that some people have been enjoying already without the record companies' involvement... And unfortunately modern albums which have dozens upon dozens of tracks might be a tougher sell because of the sheer volume of material for one song.

It sounds like the Beatles MOGGs are summed together just like the other RockBand/GH tunes. I'll have to look around, I figured by now someone would have cracked them open. Very cool.

I also enjoyed hearing the "Love" surround tracks on their own. That was a tease for what they could do in the future with the Beatles multitracks.

Radiohead has done this too, although in stem form rather than true multitracks.  Not sure if Radiohead is classic rock yet.  Hopefully it will catch on, even a little bit.

[Jay]

I'm still surprised that the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" was considered for inclusion on A3. It's much more listenable than some of the stuff that did make it. I probably would have included the original versions of takes 1&7 of "Strawberry Fields Forever" as well.

Had I not already heard and been extremely moved by Take 1 of Strawberry Fields from the Unsurpassed Masters boot, I would have been disappointed in a major way with how Anthology 2 placed that track. It is absolutely, hands-down, one of the best things in the Beatles or any group's vault and it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

"Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" has to be the most asinine example of butchering and editing of anything ever in the history of...ever. 

[Smilin Ed H]

Steely Dan have a shitload of material that's unlikely to see the light of day - and that's just based on the boots I have.  God knows what else is around.

[guitarfool2002]

"Wouldn't it be nice to live again" is the BB's "Leave my kitten alone".

Unlike "Wouldn't it be nice to live again", I have "LMKA" in my collection.  It's good but not, from what I understand, in the league of "WIBNTLA"

I have it too as I said in my original post, but it's an alternate take of that song that Mark Lewisohn praised in his book which is the one that remains unheard/unbooted/unreleased. That's the one I want to hear.

[guitarfool2002]

Steely Dan have a shitload of material that's unlikely to see the light of day - and that's just based on the boots I have.  God knows what else is around.

Becker and Fagen don't seem to think too much of bootlegs or outtakes/rare stuff in general. Besides totally leaving off any such material from their box set (which I thought was an odd choice), they also peppered a few sarcastic comments about collectors of the "rare" stuff in the booklet and elsewhere.

Having said that, I have a precious few live shows from 1974 which I treasure and listen to for pleasure all the time. However those got out, I'm guessing there are more from all the shows on that tour since they were cassette copies from the soundboard, and I hope they see the light of day. Not to mention the outtakes...

Ever see the Aja "Behind The Music" episode where Becker And Fagen sit at the mixing board and solo various tracks from the master tape? Very cool. That's an example of what could be released as a multitrack package for fans, but I think Becker and Fagen are control freaks over their sounds so i doubt that would happen.

[Smilin Ed H]

There are some good live boots from the mid 90s onwards, sometimes featuring songs that were never released on CD, or, in the cae of Jack of Speed, a different version.  These live boots (soundboard or PA) are better than the rather sterile Alive in America.  If you haven't already, you ought to get your hands on the alternate Gaucho - great quality, almost releasable, or the outtakes from the Katy Lied sessions.  Just makes me wonder how much hasn't been booted. But you'e right, I can't see them ever giving in.  I mean, as far as I know, the first single under the Steely Dan name has never seen the light of day on CD

[SurfRiderHawaii]

"Wouldn't it be nice to live again" is the BB's "Leave my kitten alone".

Unlike "Wouldn't it be nice to live again", I have "LMKA" in my collection.  It's good but not, from what I understand, in the league of "WIBNTLA"

I have it too as I said in my original post, but it's an alternate take of that song that Mark Lewisohn praised in his book which is the one that remains unheard/unbooted/unreleased. That's the one I want to hear.

What I meant to say is I have all the versions of "LMKA".  In my opinion, the Anthology 1 version is the best overall.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I remember an interview with Brian May where he stated that they would be "putting out an EP of stuff recorded with Freddie just before he died". He implied that this would be all new recent stuff. Obviously, Made in Heaven was then padded out to full length album size. I was aware of the history behind the remakes of the two Mr Bad Guy tracks and the rerecording of the track for Freddie's vocal on The Cross b side. Too Much love will Kill You was an outtake from The Miracle and My Life has been Saved was a b side to a Miracle era single. Wasn't It's a Beautiful Day started in the late 70's? That leaves..... Christ, when you whittle it down VERY little of the album contained 'new' stuff!!! I stand corrected.

Still, there has to be something from the Queen I to Jazz era still in the vaults?

I wish the Beach Boys were at that point. I want to hear everything, or at the very least anything with a Brian lead. I'm obsessed like that,

[Jim V.]

I'm still surprised that the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" was considered for inclusion on A3. It's much more listenable than some of the stuff that did make it. I probably would have included the original versions of takes 1&7 of "Strawberry Fields Forever" as well.

Had I not already heard and been extremely moved by Take 1 of Strawberry Fields from the Unsurpassed Masters boot, I would have been disappointed in a major way with how Anthology 2 placed that track. It is absolutely, hands-down, one of the best things in the Beatles or any group's vault and it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

"Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" has to be the most asinine example of butchering and editing of anything ever in the history of...ever. 

What did they do with "Mailman"? I'm not aware of anything.

[Jay]

I'm still surprised that the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" was considered for inclusion on A3. It's much more listenable than some of the stuff that did make it. I probably would have included the original versions of takes 1&7 of "Strawberry Fields Forever" as well.

Had I not already heard and been extremely moved by Take 1 of Strawberry Fields from the Unsurpassed Masters boot, I would have been disappointed in a major way with how Anthology 2 placed that track. It is absolutely, hands-down, one of the best things in the Beatles or any group's vault and it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

"Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" has to be the most asinine example of butchering and editing of anything ever in the history of...ever.  

What did they do with "Mailman"? I'm not aware of anything.

What did they do? Everything.   Listen to the bootleg version and then listen to the Anthology version. They added a weird reverb effect. They also rearranged the actual order of the song. The order of the verses were changed, as well as some of the music. They also faded the song in, in the middle of the guitar solo. They faded the song out with the exact same solo they faded it in with. There is also a VERY obvious edit that should have been caught. There is absolutely no reason nor rhyme for any of the edit or alterations they made to the song. The original unaltered version is actually one of the highlights of the Get Back sessions.

[Jay]

This is the version from Anthology 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k97vyTrT_aI, and this is the original unaltered version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSdnWyjS0jE

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" has to be the most asinine example of butchering and editing of anything ever in the history of...ever.  

Three words: The Magnificent Ambersons.  

[TdHabib]

"Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" has to be the most asinine example of butchering and editing of anything ever in the history of...ever.  

Three words: The Magnificent Ambersons.  

Greed anyone??

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" has to be the most asinine example of butchering and editing of anything ever in the history of...ever.  

Three words: The Magnificent Ambersons.  

Greed anyone??

That was my original #1 choice, but I figured few here would know what I was on about. 

[JohnMill]

I'm still surprised that the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" was considered for inclusion on A3. It's much more listenable than some of the stuff that did make it. I probably would have included the original versions of takes 1&7 of "Strawberry Fields Forever" as well.

Had I not already heard and been extremely moved by Take 1 of Strawberry Fields from the Unsurpassed Masters boot, I would have been disappointed in a major way with how Anthology 2 placed that track. It is absolutely, hands-down, one of the best things in the Beatles or any group's vault and it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

"Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" has to be the most asinine example of butchering and editing of anything ever in the history of...ever.  

What did they do with "Mailman"? I'm not aware of anything.

What did they do? Everything.   Listen to the bootleg version and then listen to the Anthology version. They added a weird reverb effect. They also rearranged the actual order of the song. The order of the verses were changed, as well as some of the music. They also faded the song in, in the middle of the guitar solo. They faded the song out with the exact same solo they faded it in with. There is also a VERY obvious edit that should have been caught. There is absolutely no reason nor rhyme for any of the edit or alterations they made to the song. The original unaltered version is actually one of the highlights of the Get Back sessions.

The edit is horrible agreed.  However, I'm trying to think back and remember if Geoff Emerick had the complete take of "Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" to work with.  There is a John Barrett mix of the song from 1982 and it starts cold with the line "One more heartache...".  We know that Glyn Johns didn't always preserve complete takes of songs throughout the "Get Back" sessions so it's possible that the beginning of "Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues" doesn't exist on the multi-track tapes and only on the Nagras.  That would necessitate Emerick to have created his own mix of the song using a faded intro.  However, that obviously doesn't excuse the horrible mix he did concoct.  

[donald]

There certainly has been an outpouring of rereleases and alternate versions of a lot of classic rock over the last several years....enough to keep me going back to the record stores over and over.  I have LOTS of Beachboys, Byrds, Jefferson Airplane, Dead, Beatles, Dylan, LOVE, Zombies etc.

What I don't have much of is pre WALL Floyd, live.   I love the live and studio stuff on UMMAGUMMA and could do with  a lot more of it.

While I have a lot of Beachboys unreleased material (thanks offered to sources) , I would like to have some official cleaned up and packaged releases of the better live performances.  That is the stuff that is still in the vaults in fairly large quantity.

[guitarfool2002]

"Wouldn't it be nice to live again" is the BB's "Leave my kitten alone".

Unlike "Wouldn't it be nice to live again", I have "LMKA" in my collection.  It's good but not, from what I understand, in the league of "WIBNTLA"

I have it too as I said in my original post, but it's an alternate take of that song that Mark Lewisohn praised in his book which is the one that remains unheard/unbooted/unreleased. That's the one I want to hear.

What I meant to say is I have all the versions of "LMKA".  In my opinion, the Anthology 1 version is the best overall.

When were these made available? I'm still under the impression the only take we hear is take 5, the one that I had since "Sessions" and the one that is on all the usual discs. What compilation did the other takes appear on? I'd like to track that down.

[guitarfool2002]

The original unaltered version is actually one of the highlights of the Get Back sessions.

This really isn't saying much about "Mailman", as I think The Beatles tear into this song with all the enthusiasm and energy of waking up with a hangover and realizing you have to be at work in an hour.

I never understood the appeal of the "Get Back" stuff. I enjoy listening as a fan, but it sounds so dreary, especially the time they spent at Twickenham, where they sound cold and tired most of the time. The highlights are there but are few and far-between. Just personal preference.