Classic Rock Outtakes Industry:where do we go from here?

[GuyOnTheBeach]

GuyOnTheBeach, mentioned McCartney, and its great to see that McCartney and McCartney II getting reissued with bonus material. Although Band on the Run didn't have much in the way of unreleased stuff, I think these 2 will be great.

I'm looking forwards to McCartney II, that may be interesting, bearing in mind it was planned as a 2 disk album to start with. I know from what I already have that stuff like an instrumental of 'Summers Day Song' were planned for that release (it's no different from the official version, except that there is no vocal track), the rest varies in quality, and features the usual Macca stuff (songs which would have been great had he spent more time on them).

Also from 1980, there are quite a few songs that were rehearsed by Wings, some of these songs would end up on Tug of War (Wanderlust, The Pound Is Sinking, Ballroom Dancing, Take It Away, Dress Me Up As A Robber and Ebony & Ivory), some on Pipes of Peace (Sweetest Little Show, Keep Under Cover and Average Person.. I always hated that song!), I guess those tracks would end up on their respective albums if they get released, but there were some other titles that didn't get used again after these sessions, I don't know if anything from this would see the light of day, but there's some good stuff.

There's also the stuff from 1987, where songs like Return To Pepperland and an early version of Beautiful night were recorded, I'd like to see some of that released too.

[PhilCohen]

I remember there being a couple of Beatles' "stack-o-tracks" boots but they were highly expensive when I saw them so long ago. The tracks that were released on Anthology 2 (Elenor Rigby is all I can remember at the moment) just weren't enough....Am I the only one here who wants more of the backing tracks?

Capitol loves releasing those for the BB, why not the Beatles?

The Beatles backing track boots are derived from the surround soundtrack of the "Rock Band" video game.

[PhilCohen]

I think the answer to the original question is quite simple. There will be "new" classic rock bands. Bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers, U2, REM, Nirvana and Guns N' Roses.

But for these recording artists of the digital non-tape, ProTools era, there may be alternate mixes but no entirely alternate takes in the way that analogue tape era artists generated. Today, most studio recordings do not have their basis in a basic band take, recorded with the group playing together. They are pieced together one instrument at a time, if real hand-played instruments are being used at all.

[PhilCohen]

Does anybody know if "In The Beechwoods" exists in the vault? Or is the crappy lo-fi recording from the Nick Mason interview all we'll ever hear?

It's a backing track only. Syd never wrote the lyric.

[bgas]

Does anybody know if "In The Beechwoods" exists in the vault? Or is the crappy lo-fi recording from the Nick Mason interview all we'll ever hear?

It's a backing track only. Syd never wrote the lyric.

Maybe he'll write it later

[punkinhead]

I remember there being a couple of Beatles' "stack-o-tracks" boots but they were highly expensive when I saw them so long ago. The tracks that were released on Anthology 2 (Elenor Rigby is all I can remember at the moment) just weren't enough....Am I the only one here who wants more of the backing tracks?

Capitol loves releasing those for the BB, why not the Beatles?

There was a "Stack O' Vocals" mix prepared of "Paperback Writer" for A2 but it was vetoed.  

BOOO!

Anyone know of any other songs that were prepared for the Anthology?
Or should I just look at the Anthology Outtakes Vol's 1 & 2?...btw, why does it stop after Vol. 2? basically right after Hello Goodbye then Across the Universe.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I would really like to see record companies get into releasing multitracks here and there.  There would be a small but reliable market for them.  That's really about all we have left in terms of ways to repackage Pet Sounds, for instance, which I am all for.  For the 50th anniversary, put out the discrete multitracks.  Fans can make their own mixes for a contest or something, or just listen for study.  There are issues, but enough people are hacking Rock Band and Guitar Hero and whatnot to obtain stems that it seems like a label could make some money off this.

[bgas]

I would really like to see record companies get into releasing multitracks here and there.  There would be a small but reliable market for them.  That's really about all we have left in terms of ways to repackage Pet Sounds, for instance, which I am all for.  For the 50th anniversary, put out the discrete multitracks.  Fans can make their own mixes for a contest or something, or just listen for study.  There are issues, but enough people are hacking Rock Band and Guitar Hero and whatnot to obtain stems that it seems like a label could make some money off this.

Sounds like a really cool idea.  What do you think the odds are of it coming to pass?  ( Being that it's Capitol and the BBs)

[Chris Moise]

It's a backing track only. Syd never wrote the lyric.

I wouldn't assume that just because vocals were not recorded they were not written. It isn't known for certain but owing to his writing style I'd say there is a better than fair chance lyrics were written for In the Beechwoods.

[punkinhead]

The Dennis Wilson Box of Outtakes would be ideal....
I'd like to see a track listing put together by someone of importance or anyone else for that matter....let alone a disc devoted to the POB Tour rehearsal.....BTW, does anyone know anything about what was rehearsed besides Friday Night and What's Wrong (evidence from Craig Slowinski, I think).

[Jay]

 I would love to hear the "Etcetera" recording that Paul McCartney recorded in the studio during the "White Album" sessions. He supposedly took the tape from the studio that day and it's never been seen or heard of since.

I hesitate to put this story on the internet...but since the truth about the "Alan Boyd/Get The Boot" story was recently revealed, I guess I'll tell my story. A few years ago, I was given some VERY RELIABLE information regarding The Beatles. There are in existence a dozen or so reel to reel tapes of sessions from the Rubber Soul album that were "removed" from the studio,  without proper authorization from the parties involved at EMI/Abby Road. I was told that the owner of the Rock&Roll Hall of Fame Museum owns one dub of each tape.

[Exapno Mapcase]

"The upcoming Queen reissues have raided the vaults"

f***, no!

[Mike's Beard]

"The upcoming Queen reissues have raided the vaults"

foder, no!

If they mean by sicking out the b side to "Seven seas of Rhye" and a handfull of live tracks then yes the vaults have been well and truly emptied. 

[Chris Moise]

I would love to hear the "Etcetera" recording that Paul McCartney recorded in the studio during the "White Album" sessions. He supposedly took the tape from the studio that day and it's never been seen or heard of since.

A copy of "Etcetera" was discovered in the McCartney archive and it is actually a Paul performance of "Thingummybob" but with Paul vocals/lyrics, an "extra bridge" and a "softer into not unlike Here There and Everywhere". I think it sounds rather tantalizing myself. 

[PhilCohen]

"The upcoming Queen reissues have raided the vaults"

foder, no!

If they mean by sicking out the b side to "Seven seas of Rhye" and a handfull of live tracks then yes the vaults have been well and truly emptied. 

The drastic reconstruction techniques that were neccessary on Queen's posthumous "Made in Heaven" album suggest that the group didn't really have many unreleased songs.

[punkinhead]

I would love to hear the "Etcetera" recording that Paul McCartney recorded in the studio during the "White Album" sessions. He supposedly took the tape from the studio that day and it's never been seen or heard of since.

I hesitate to put this story on the internet...but since the truth about the "Alan Boyd/Get The Boot" story was recently revealed, I guess I'll tell my story. A few years ago, I was given some VERY RELIABLE information regarding The Beatles. There are in existence a dozen or so reel to reel tapes of sessions from the Rubber Soul album that were "removed" from the studio,  without proper authorization from the parties involved at EMI/Abby Road. I was told that the owner of the Rock&Roll Hall of Fame Museum owns one dub of each tape.

I didn't know about this, can someone fill me in?
or perhaps a link?

[JohnMill]

I remember there being a couple of Beatles' "stack-o-tracks" boots but they were highly expensive when I saw them so long ago. The tracks that were released on Anthology 2 (Elenor Rigby is all I can remember at the moment) just weren't enough....Am I the only one here who wants more of the backing tracks?

Capitol loves releasing those for the BB, why not the Beatles?

There was a "Stack O' Vocals" mix prepared of "Paperback Writer" for A2 but it was vetoed.  

BOOO!

Anyone know of any other songs that were prepared for the Anthology?
Or should I just look at the Anthology Outtakes Vol's 1 & 2?...btw, why does it stop after Vol. 2? basically right after Hello Goodbye then Across the Universe.

The "Anthology Outtakes" bootlegs have nothing to do with outtakes from the actual preparation of the "Anthology" albums.  They are just compilations of booted material that wasn't included on the "Anthology" releases.  The officially released "Anthology" albums and those bootlegs really have nothing to do with one another.

As for tracks that were prepared for the "Anthology" albums but were ultimately vetoed or discarded?  I believe someone has already mentioned that "Carnival Of Light" was in the running for A2 but was vetoed by George Harrison due to the fact that he felt it was too indulgent.  It was actually replaced by the backing track of one of Harrison' songs ("Within You, Without You")

Also considered for the project were:

Puttin' On The Style/Baby Let's Play House (Woolton Village Fete)
Love Of The Loved (Paul's demo)
Love Of The Loved/To Know Her Is To Love Her (Decca Auditions)
Red Hot (Hamburg)
From Me To You (alternate take)
She's A Woman (Shea Stadium 65')
Think For Yourself (alternate take)
Love You To (take 1 - acoustic)
Nowhere Man (Tokyo 66')
Getting Better (alternate take)
Magical Mystery Tour (alternate take)
Hey La Le Lu / All Together Now
Helter Skelter (take 3 - 27 minutes)
Yer Blues (alternate take)
Goodbye (Paul's demo)*

* "Goodbye" was vetoed due to the fact that it was "not intended for The Beatles" which was another one of George Harrison's hang-ups regarding the project.  The same fate almost met Paul's demo of "Come And Get It" but due to the fact that it was already mixed down and the fact that Harrison's acoustic demos from 2/25/69 were also included on the project, "Come And Get It" made it onto A3.

[Mike's Beard]

"The upcoming Queen reissues have raided the vaults"

foder, no!

If they mean by sicking out the b side to "Seven seas of Rhye" and a handfull of live tracks then yes the vaults have been well and truly emptied. 

The drastic reconstruction techniques that were neccessary on Queen's posthumous "Made in Heaven" album suggest that the group didn't really have many unreleased songs.

Made in Heaven was 90% of the material Queen were working on when Freddie died. It was due to be their next album release. It was never intended to be an outtakes package. There used to be a huge glut of working sessions from the Queen II era on youtube, these should have seen the light of day. The only real wothwhile stuff that the reissues have thrown up is the De Lane Lea demos from Queen I.

[guitarfool2002]

I remember there being a couple of Beatles' "stack-o-tracks" boots but they were highly expensive when I saw them so long ago. The tracks that were released on Anthology 2 (Elenor Rigby is all I can remember at the moment) just weren't enough....Am I the only one here who wants more of the backing tracks?

Capitol loves releasing those for the BB, why not the Beatles?

The Beatles backing track boots are derived from the surround soundtrack of the "Rock Band" video game.

Now I'm curious. Those individual tracks called "stems" were apparently encrypted and made hack-proof when the Beatles Rock Band game first hit the stores. As soon as the Guitar Hero and Rock Band games started to use actual master tapes and multitracks in the programming rather than replacements and very well done sound-alikes, tech savvy folks started ripping the audio into individual tracks and posting them as full song files online. They were not the same mix layout as the originals (they had to bounce everything down to 7 or 8 tracks for purposes of the game), and in some cases you'd get three guitar parts summed onto one track, but it was a revelation to hear some of these, including some very classic songs.

It was LOADS OF FUN to have separate tracks to play with, especially if you're a musician who had tried to figure out a certain guitar or bass part for years, then here it was isolated and all the small details including ones you've never heard come pouring out. It's awesome.

So with the Beatles Rock Band, those in charge knew of this internet phenom of multitracks being traded. And apparently they tried to do what they could to make these hack-proof, and not able to be ripped as separate files as the earlier games had been somewhat easy to do.

I've been away from that for some time - So has the full Beatles game in fact been hacked and all the tracks available? Or are folks simply isolating various surround channels as the song plays on the game and recording them like you would streaming audio and compiling these sets?

There is a big difference and I hope someone can let me know. If more of the actual multitracks have been ripped by someone that would be fantastic news. Thanks!

[Exapno Mapcase]

I fucking hate Queen.

[guitarfool2002]

I think the answer to the original question is quite simple. There will be "new" classic rock bands. Bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers, U2, REM, Nirvana and Guns N' Roses.

But for these recording artists of the digital non-tape, ProTools era, there may be alternate mixes but no entirely alternate takes in the way that analogue tape era artists generated. Today, most studio recordings do not have their basis in a basic band take, recorded with the group playing together. They are pieced together one instrument at a time, if real hand-played instruments are being used at all.

But even since at least the early 1960's you would have a lead or backing vocal tracked at the same time the band was recording the instrumentals. If anything you'd get a guide or scratch vocal which may or may not be wiped in favor of the lead, especially when the number of available tracks were at a premium. And those final vocals may have had dozens of punch-ins to get there, so it's not a continuous recording anyway.

One thing all bands do is try out songs in the studio whether it's digital or analog, and every band I know has at least once recorded a song and then went back to it later, changing it all around to the point where it sounds nothing like the first attempts. And again, the availability of portable media in the past 40 years has made a lot more of these early attempts available for future listeners since all the band members if they wanted could have received a copy of their work as they left the studio on that day.

Part of the process is taking songs home after recording them and living with them, and often times that's when someone hears something they don't like and decides to go back to change it. There are the alternate takes, alternate mixes, alternate versions, alternate arrangements, etc. that we'll never run out of.

The artists mentioned are some of the more popular among bootleggers, so that list was an informed list. Going back to the 80's and 90's those bands were among the most traded, bootlegged, and sold artists who were not from the 60's or 70's era. There are hundreds of releases including many studio sessions and outtakes available for those bands, and U2 alone has quite a backlog of studio session material available for those interested.

A classic story about the lengths fans of U2 will go to grab their music was when they found someone outside Bono's place where he had an open window - Bono was listening to reference mixes of the upcoming U2 album at home and the guy was recording them from outside.

[Dead Parrot]

I'm still surprised that the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" was considered for inclusion on A3. It's much more listenable than some of the stuff that did make it. I probably would have included the original versions of takes 1&7 of "Strawberry Fields Forever" as well.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm still surprised that the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" was considered for inclusion on A3. It's much more listenable than some of the stuff that did make it. I probably would have included the original versions of takes 1&7 of "Strawberry Fields Forever" as well.

Revolution was another case where I had read descriptions of the earlier tracks using the word "chaotic" or "discordant" or whatever else they used and when that actual track came out it was one of the better outtakes I had ever heard from The Beatles. A thing of pure enjoyment, and hardly chaotic or discordant. Those background vocals are awesome!

Had I not already heard and been extremely moved by Take 1 of Strawberry Fields from the Unsurpassed Masters boot, I would have been disappointed in a major way with how Anthology 2 placed that track. It is absolutely, hands-down, one of the best things in the Beatles or any group's vault and it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

[Dead Parrot]

Had I not already heard and been extremely moved by Take 1 of Strawberry Fields from the Unsurpassed Masters boot, I would have been disappointed in a major way with how Anthology 2 placed that track. It is absolutely, hands-down, one of the best things in the Beatles or any group's vault and it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

Why they edited the harmonies out of SFF Take 1 I will never know!

[guitarfool2002]

Had I not already heard and been extremely moved by Take 1 of Strawberry Fields from the Unsurpassed Masters boot, I would have been disappointed in a major way with how Anthology 2 placed that track. It is absolutely, hands-down, one of the best things in the Beatles or any group's vault and it's hard to forgive some of the editing they did on Anthology 2.

Why they edited the harmonies out of SFF Take 1 I will never know!

It's baffling, almost as bad as those horrid vocieovers on Anthology 1 where you get McCartney chattering away as the track slowly fades in from the background. As if we wanted to hear Paul talk rather than a super-rare track in full. A head-scratcher for sure.

And Strawberry Fields take 1 : I can't describe just how much I was moved by hearing that track on Unsurpassed Masters for the first time, and I'm happy I heard the booted version first after they butchered it on Anthology 2 the "official" version. Even the slide guitar was mixed down, and lost some of the punch. I'll never figure that editing out as the harmonies are a highlight too.