SMiLE Mystery

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I really have no idea--it certainly looks very "vaulty" but I seriously doubt there's actually something unheard in there.  The allure of unheard/unknown material is much less interesting to me than the overall strangeness.  If it's a fan shrine, why the slight inconsistencies that a fan "should" know better than to "commit"?  But then, if it's just sort of for show, it doesn't really matter--perhaps the different tape boxes were all this person could round up and the different sizes are coincidences of how they ended up in a pile.  Maybe the larger boxes actually have smaller reels in them: not unheard of to have mis-matched boxes.  Maybe there's CDs in the boxes?

I agree that it would be unusual to buy empty tape boxes, though.  Maybe this fan was making the switch to digital in his studio and decided to throw away some old tape that he knew he'd never use, was listening to the Beach Boys at the time and thought he'd keep a few boxes and make a liitle mock-up "holy grail" as a display.

But again, if somebody is that serious, why aren't they on this board right now?

[guitarfool2002]

But again, if somebody is that serious, why aren't they on this board right now?

They might be busy making crop circles on their farm? 

[Mike's Beard]

It's Mike's secret stash. He secretly hates the surf/car songs and after having forced his way through two hours of singing them on stage he enjoys nothing more then going home, putting his feet up, rolling a fat one and kicking back to the quad mix of Holland.

[Mikie]

He enjoys nothing more then going home, putting his feet up, rolling a fat one and kicking back.

I'm pretty sure that's what some of you guys are doing just before posting on this thread. 

[The Heartical Don]

It's Mike's secret stash. He secretly hates the surf/car songs and after having forced his way through two hours of singing them on stage he enjoys nothing more then going home, putting his feet up, rolling a fat one and kicking back to the quad mix of Holland.

 

[Jonas]

It's Mike's secret stash. He secretly hates the surf/car songs and after having forced his way through two hours of singing them on stage he enjoys nothing more then going home, putting his feet up, rolling a fat one and kicking back to the quad mix of Holland.

Quality post.

[c-man]

Maybe there's CDs in the boxes?

Maybe this fan was making the switch to digital in his studio and decided to throw away some old tape that he knew he'd never use, was listening to the Beach Boys at the time and thought he'd keep a few boxes and make a liitle mock-up "holy grail" as a display.

But again, if somebody is that serious, why aren't they on this board right now?

No...CDs didn't exist in the mid-'70s, nor did any kind of digital audio.  As for why they aren't on this board right now...maybe these guys NEVER made the leap to digital, and don't use the internet (hard as THAT may be to believe).

[Custom Machine]

Donny L. - Thanks for the time frame correction.  You're right, 8 and 16 track decks which would record on half inch tape were not available in 73-74, assuming (sorry, Andrew) that's when the tapes (if, in fact, there are tapes with the indicated titles in the boxes) were made.  

As far as the presumption that four track quad mixes are on the half inch tapes, the quad mixes that Stephen Desper made in the early 70s were all two track matrix mixes he produced from the multitracks.  These two track stereo mixes needed four speakers with a simple wiring modification (as illustrated on a sheet included in The Flame album) or a simple decoder to achieve a four track quadraphonic effect.  My recollection is that none of them were recorded in a discrete four track format.

I don't think anyone is thinking this photo was taken at the Brother or Capitol tape vaults.  If these tape boxes are assumed to actually hold BB recordings, then they would have to be copies, either authorized or unauthorized.  But who made them, and where are they stored?  That mystery is part of the fun of all this.  And if Ed isn't just throwing this out for the fun of seeing what the various responses would be, then we have to trust his statement that Alan Boyd is curious about this too.

Andrew, when Desper said it's a fake, was he just meaning that it's a fake if it is supposedly a photo of the Brother vaults?  

This is a fascinating mystery, and I'm totally enjoy reading all the theories.  Yeah, this could certainly be a fake some fans cooked up, but what if ...

[Beach Head]

Just a wild thought or two ...

Could this possibly be a Beach Boys-connected vault/storage other than Brother Records? For instance, maybe an individual Beach Boy's tape store? I'm thinking that Mike probably had some stash of tapes at his Santa Barbara studio. And I think it's been established that Al's got some tapes at his Big Sur ranch studio; those had to have been stored somewhere before he built his current studio setup.

And then there's the question of where the tapes were stored in the interim after Marilyn threw the studio out of the Bellagio house (circa So Tough) and before Brother Studios was set up (in 1974, I think). They had to have been stored somewhere, and the picture seems to possibly date from around that time.

[DonnyL]

Great posts, DonnyL! 

Still waiting for Mr. Doe to explain his theory with such arguments.

As you wish.

"The tape boxes in the photo are Scotch brand with the design of the late-‘60s-early ‘70s (you can see most of the Scotch boxes on the Stack O Tracks cover are of a different design, circa early-mid ‘60s)."

Only one of the boxes in question is showing a design, so I'll agree that it is a Scotch box: the others have either no design, or if there is one, it's covered by the label. Could be generic storage boxes, could be Scotch boxes: we have no way of knowing. But thanks, that's a very useful observation as it narrows the time frame for when these tapes (if they are genuine) were made.

"And Mr. Doe, i believe there are most certainly tapes in the boxes."

Good, I like that wording. Not assuming. I believe there may not be tapes in those boxes: again, no way to be certain from the photo.

"I don’t know how or why someone would bulk order 3M tape boxes; I doubt 3M even sold JUST BOXES!"

Refer to my first comment: only one box is unquestionably Scotch. "London".

"The boxes are not generic; they are of a very specific design, particularly the ½” tapes with the distinct “box within a box” foldout design – trust me on this."

Not being sarcastic here, this is a genuine request: how can you tell from this photo ? Can you show me the signs, or point me to an image of the box that I can compare it with ? You have expertise in this area, I don't. If I may observe, though, the boxes on the upper shelf are manifestly thinner, so not of the same design (are they ?).
 
"I am not saying I know what is on the tapes.  It could very well be just some audio enthusiast who had a lot of spare income to play with tape machines and was an obsessed beach boys fan."

Again, good observation: I could write on a piece of paper "current balance in my account £10,000,000 credit", but that doesn't make it true. I've got some BB albums labelled stereo that are decidedly not.  

"But there are other theories to be explored."

Always. It's what we do here.  

I can see the Scotch logo on multiple boxes (semi obscured by the written labels); in addition, the cardboard "box within a box" design on the 1/2" tapes is Scotch, it is also an indicator that it is not a 1/4" tape box because they only used that weird box design for the thicker reels.  i will take a picture of some of my own tapes at some point this weekend and show you what i mean.  but i have not seen any other manufacturer to use these boxes and i have seen A LOT of old tapes.  also, there is an entire bottom shelf with unused Scotch reels on there - i will admit i am using deductive reasoning to ASSUME all the boxes are Scotch ... but there is no reason to believe otherwise, they are all of a uniform pattern and appear to be the same type tape box.

3M / Scotch made the 1/4" tapes in a regular, thinner box, like this (this auction shows a similar-era Scotch reel) - these are the ones on the top shelf:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scotch-Pro-203-Reel-Reel-Tape10-inch-Set-Two-/170623539265?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b9f49841

Their 1/2" tape used this thick cardboard, kind of like a shipping box and it was a wrap within another wrap.  i will take it apart and show you some photos.  but the 1/2" boxes in the middle shelf are definitely these boxes.  i can see the edges.  these are 1/2" 4-track tapes.

[Tricycle Rider]

I'm starting to think that if this is real, it's connected to Dennis somehow.

When was it that Dennis told someone "I Found The SMiLE Tapes!?

[DonnyL]

Donny L. - Thanks for the time frame correction.  You're right, 8 and 16 track decks which would record on half inch tape were not available in 73-74, assuming (sorry, Andrew) that's when the tapes (if, in fact, there are tapes with the indicated titles in the boxes) were made.  

As far as the presumption that four track quad mixes are on the half inch tapes, the quad mixes that Stephen Desper made in the early 70s were all two track matrix mixes he produced from the multitracks.  These two track stereo mixes needed four speakers with a simple wiring modification (as illustrated on a sheet included in The Flame album) or a simple decoder to achieve a four track quadraphonic effect.  My recollection is that none of them were recorded in a discrete four track format.

I don't think anyone is thinking this photo was taken at the Brother or Capitol tape vaults.  If these tape boxes are assumed to actually hold BB recordings, then they would have to be copies, either authorized or unauthorized.  But who made them, and where are they stored?  That mystery is part of the fun of all this.  And if Ed isn't just throwing this out for the fun of seeing what the various responses would be, then we have to trust his statement that Alan Boyd is curious about this too.

Andrew, when Desper said it's a fake, was he just meaning that it's a fake if it is supposedly a photo of the Brother vaults?  

This is a fascinating mystery, and I'm totally enjoy reading all the theories.  Yeah, this could certainly be a fake some fans cooked up, but what if ...

I didn't know that about the quad mixes -- but those are not real quad, as in a quad record as commercially released.  i was just guessing these could be quad mixes (not intented for release, as an example of a playback system, or as an experiment?) because i can't figure out where there would be 1/2" tapes there.

[DonnyL]

if we are going to write this off as a hoax, then we ought to have proof or at least a REASONABLE explanation as to how and why someone would do this.

even if it is a "fan" (quite a fan) display of some kind, i am personally quite interested in finding out how and why someone would create such a thing.

Let's say this is the private collection of an audio enthusiast obsessed with the work of the Beach Boys.  He would have to be a diligent follower, essentially an expert in the group's output (particularly with regard to the "DUMB
ANGEL"/"SPRING" tapes, etc).  I have no doubt whatsoever based on the facts presented by Mr Roach and the appearance of the tape boxes that the photo was taken around 1973.  How much information would a fan have access to at this point in time?  Would they be aware of references such as about Bellagio, "Dumb Angel", etc?  Perhaps this fan read a magazine article or two?

Okay, so this EXPERT fan is also an audio enthusiast beyond the normal realm.  Basically, he has access to studio equipment, as consumer/prosumer gear at this time would not have been equipped to handle some of the tapes in the photo.  Perhaps he works at or runs a recording studio?  Duplicating plant?  Did he dub his comprehensive Beach Boys vinyl collection to 1/4" tapes?  Quite possible, lots of people did that (and some still do).  So this person or group of people decided to make 1/2" (4-track) copies of some of the beach boys albums which he already has 1/4" copies of (SUNFLOWER, SURF'S UP, etc), which also happen to be only the warner material.  WHY?  What is his incentive as an audio fan to do this?  What would he put on the tapes?  He also made a 1/4" reel of just the song "add some music to your day", which incidentally is a song the Beach Boys made a BUNCH of different mixes of at some point (I think 23 mixes?).  he also labeled a tape "REMOTE/ST. PAUL".  The theory that this guy was just a fan, even a crazed fan, doesn't add up to me; there are too many holes.

Ok, so maybe it is an actual, elaborate hoax and there are no beach boys recordings on any of the tapes.  WHY?  Why in the world would someone (who has extensive and elaborate knowledge of the beach boys) expend the resources to create this?

[DonnyL]

Just a wild thought or two ...

Could this possibly be a Beach Boys-connected vault/storage other than Brother Records? For instance, maybe an individual Beach Boy's tape store? I'm thinking that Mike probably had some stash of tapes at his Santa Barbara studio. And I think it's been established that Al's got some tapes at his Big Sur ranch studio; those had to have been stored somewhere before he built his current studio setup.

YES!  this is exactly the kind of thing that makes a whole lot more sense than a hoax, etc.

[DonnyL]

oh also, it makes complete sense that "TRACKS" is "stack o tracks"; after all, it's next to "LONDON".  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just a wild thought or two ...

Could this possibly be a Beach Boys-connected vault/storage other than Brother Records? For instance, maybe an individual Beach Boy's tape store? I'm thinking that Mike probably had some stash of tapes at his Santa Barbara studio. And I think it's been established that Al's got some tapes at his Big Sur ranch studio; those had to have been stored somewhere before he built his current studio setup.

And then there's the question of where the tapes were stored in the interim after Marilyn threw the studio out of the Bellagio house (circa So Tough) and before Brother Studios was set up (in 1974, I think). They had to have been stored somewhere, and the picture seems to possibly date from around that time.

Mike's studio at Santa Barbara didn't exist in the mid-70s, as far as I know. Likewise Jardine's Barn - to cut the KTSA tracks up there they had to hire equipment.

Brother was functioning, at least for mixdowns, in summer 1973, and Marilyn didn't throw the studio out, rather she refused to let it be reinstalled when it came back from its Dutch vacation. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I can see the Scotch logo on multiple boxes (semi obscured by the written labels); in addition, the cardboard "box within a box" design on the 1/2" tapes is Scotch, it is also an indicator that it is not a 1/4" tape box because they only used that weird box design for the thicker reels.  i will take a picture of some of my own tapes at some point this weekend and show you what i mean.  but i have not seen any other manufacturer to use these boxes and i have seen A LOT of old tapes.  also, there is an entire bottom shelf with unused Scotch reels on there - i will admit i am using deductive reasoning to ASSUME all the boxes are Scotch ... but there is no reason to believe otherwise, they are all of a uniform pattern and appear to be the same type tape box.

3M / Scotch made the 1/4" tapes in a regular, thinner box, like this (this auction shows a similar-era Scotch reel) - these are the ones on the top shelf:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scotch-Pro-203-Reel-Reel-Tape10-inch-Set-Two-/170623539265?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b9f49841

Their 1/2" tape used this thick cardboard, kind of like a shipping box and it was a wrap within another wrap.  i will take it apart and show you some photos.  but the 1/2" boxes in the middle shelf are definitely these boxes.  i can see the edges.  these are 1/2" 4-track tapes.

Thanks for that.

[Roger Ryan]

I think we should avoid using the term "hoax" and stick with "fake". The plaques are the things that make me question the idea that the tape boxes are genuine Beach Boys session tapes/album masters/safety copies. If this vault was being used by any member of the Beach Boys to store tape permanently or temporarily, why would there be an engraved plaque thanking the band? Why would a studio engineer (one nobody has ever heard of) have his name engraved on a plaque on this shelf? The only reason I can think of is that the tape boxes are part of a display. Perhaps the Beach Boys ("especially Brian") decided to give a fan a boatload of tapes because they didn't feel they had any further use for them, but I can't imagine any official vault would feature plaques like the ones seen in the photo.

[Andrew G. Doe]

if we are going to write this off as a hoax, then we ought to have proof or at least a REASONABLE explanation as to how and why someone would do this.

even if it is a "fan" (quite a fan) display of some kind, i am personally quite interested in finding out how and why someone would create such a thing.

Let's say this is the private collection of an audio enthusiast obsessed with the work of the Beach Boys.  He would have to be a diligent follower, essentially an expert in the group's output (particularly with regard to the "DUMB
ANGEL"/"SPRING" tapes, etc).  I have no doubt whatsoever based on the facts presented by Mr Roach and the appearance of the tape boxes that the photo was taken around 1973.  How much information would a fan have access to at this point in time?  Would they be aware of references such as about Bellagio, "Dumb Angel", etc?  Perhaps this fan read a magazine article or two?

Okay, so this EXPERT fan is also an audio enthusiast beyond the normal realm.  Basically, he has access to studio equipment, as consumer/prosumer gear at this time would not have been equipped to handle some of the tapes in the photo.  Perhaps he works at or runs a recording studio?  Duplicating plant?  Did he dub his comprehensive Beach Boys vinyl collection to 1/4" tapes?  Quite possible, lots of people did that (and some still do).  So this person or group of people decided to make 1/2" (4-track) copies of some of the beach boys albums which he already has 1/4" copies of (SUNFLOWER, SURF'S UP, etc), which also happen to be only the warner material.  WHY?  What is his incentive as an audio fan to do this?  What would he put on the tapes?  He also made a 1/4" reel of just the song "add some music to your day", which incidentally is a song the Beach Boys made a BUNCH of different mixes of at some point (I think 23 mixes?).  he also labeled a tape "REMOTE/ST. PAUL".  The theory that this guy was just a fan, even a crazed fan, doesn't add up to me; there are too many holes.

Ok, so maybe it is an actual, elaborate hoax and there are no beach boys recordings on any of the tapes.  WHY?  Why in the world would someone (who has extensive and elaborate knowledge of the beach boys) expend the resources to create this?

Fan, remember, is a contraction of fanatic. Fans do crazy things: I've seen stuff inside the houses of Presley fans that would make the Pope say "WTF ?"  I know of at least one BB fan who has, or had, a BW shrine. Not a collection, or a music room - a shrine.

Here's what I think: it's not, as was once claimed, the Brother vault or any other such commercial enterprise. Could well be some audio fanatic, or someone with a home studio and a knowledge of recording terminology. Definitely a BB fan with wider knowledge than most and a copy of Stack O' Tracks. Fans do crazy things - who's to say that one day in 1973, bored, this guy decided to make use of some spare shelf space by mocking up some BB masters from empty boxes they had lying around and that, being maybe in Minnesota, they included a non-existent concert tape ?  Why ? Just for yucks. The material was to hand, couldn't have taken more than a few hours. Fills an empty afternoon. Take a few polaroids.

Yeah, it's crazy... but it's no less crazy than some of the other proposed notions, and it's based on what's in the photo.  Bottom line is, unless whoever comes forward, we'll never know. And y'know something ? A part of me doesn't want to.  

[Beach Head]

Brother was functioning, at least for mixdowns, in summer 1973, and Marilyn didn't throw the studio out, rather she refused to let it be reinstalled when it came back from its Dutch vacation. 

But where did all the tapes go when the studio went to Holland? Surely they didn't ship all the tapes over there with the equipment?!! They had to store everything that didn't make the trip somewhere, right?

And I thought the story about the Holland trip was that Moffitt had to pull their studio equipment out of storage to reassemble, test and ship it because it already had been removed from the Bellagio house.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brother was functioning, at least for mixdowns, in summer 1973, and Marilyn didn't throw the studio out, rather she refused to let it be reinstalled when it came back from its Dutch vacation. 

But where did all the tapes go when the studio went to Holland? Surely they didn't ship all the tapes over there with the equipment?!! They had to store everything that didn't make the trip somewhere, right?

And I thought the story about the Holland trip was that Moffitt had to pull their studio equipment out of storage to reassemble, test and ship it because it already had been removed from the Bellagio house.

Even if there wasn't a studio, there's a space where there used to be a studio. 

As for the timeline as laid out in the Holland booklet, it doesn't square with the facts: Moffit says that when assisting in breaking down Brian's living room studio (it wasn't), a 'dream console' was discussed. He then says the call to construct same came mid-March with June 1st deadline. Small problem with that: the CATP sessions at Bellagio, Sunset & Village Recorders were still happening April 3rd-18th, so the home studio was still operative in mid-April. My best guess here is that when Steve M saw he wasn't going to make the deadline with an all new console, he cannibalized the home studio. Can't prove that, but we can prove that his remembered tale is, in fact, misremembered.

[DonnyL]

Here's what I think: it's not, as was once claimed, the Brother vault or any other such commercial enterprise. Could well be some audio fanatic, or someone with a home studio and a knowledge of recording terminology. Definitely a BB fan with wider knowledge than most and a copy of Stack O' Tracks. Fans do crazy things - who's to say that one day in 1973, bored, this guy decided to make use of some spare shelf space by mocking up some BB masters from empty boxes they had lying around and that, being maybe in Minnesota, they included a non-existent concert tape ?  Why ? Just for yucks. The material was to hand, couldn't have taken more than a few hours. Fills an empty afternoon. Take a few polaroids.

Yeah, it's crazy... but it's no less crazy than some of the other proposed notions, and it's based on what's in the photo.  Bottom line is, unless whoever comes forward, we'll never know. And y'know something ? A part of me doesn't want to.  

i would like to know!  i also don't think this has anything to do with anyone's home studio (almost unheard of in '73 ... do you know how much tape decks cost back then?  you could buy yourself a house with the cost of a multi-track deck ... and hobbyists would not be playing around with 1/2" tapes or 1/2" tape boxes).  i've been thinking this could have possibly for some some kind of industry audio convention ("sound system", "thanks to the beach boys", etc.) but it is inexplicable as to why the beach boys would have "donated" their entire output (including unreleased material) for such an event.  and this would be assuming that they had copies of the Capitol material, which I still think is quite possible.

  

[DonnyL]

Can the experts tell me one thing:  are the original session tapes for “Vega-tables”/”Vegetables” on 4-track or 8-track masters? (I suspect the answer will be both)

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I really don't understand what the hubub is all about.

My father had a 1/4" machine and he'd buy these hi-fidelity classical records and record them to 1/4".  He had his own little library.
By dubbing the vinyl to tape,  he preserved the albums.  1/4" sound a hell of a lot better than cassette tapes.

This guy is probably a Beach Boys audiophile who dubbed his albums to 1/4", made his own 'mix' tapes, and maybe even converted collected boots (or friends boots) to 1/4".
This foto just looks like some hardcore hobbyist/audiophile's basement tape collection.

There is no indication any of these are lost 'Smile' masters or anything else.

[DonnyL]

I really don't understand what the hubub is all about.

My father had a 1/4" machine and he'd buy these hi-fidelity classical records and record them to 1/4".  He had his own little library.
By dubbing the vinyl to tape,  he preserved the albums.  1/4" sound a hell of a lot better than cassette tapes.

This guy is probably a Beach Boys audiophile who dubbed his albums to 1/4", made his own 'mix' tapes, and maybe even converted collected boots (or friends boots) to 1/4".
This foto just looks like some hardcore hobbyist/audiophile's basement tape collection.

There is no indication any of these are lost 'Smile' masters or anything else.

was this prior to 1974 and did your father have a machine capable of playing 10.5" or 14" reels and did he also have a 1/2" 4-track machine?