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Author Topic: SMiLE Mystery  (Read 73208 times)
DonnyL
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« Reply #125 on: April 07, 2011, 06:50:00 PM »

I do not see how his is a hoax -- it was not created by a fan; the tapes on the top shelf are safety copies, I assume authorized by the Beach Boys and part of their tape library at some point in time, namely circa 1973.  As to why this collection included Capitol-era tapes: perhaps Capitol rented them to the group for the purpose of copying them for their archives (this is perfectly feasible – the group could not legally release them).  Come to think of it, 1972-73 was the period in time in which Brother/Warner would have acquired 2-track masters for SMILEY SMILE, WILD HONEY, FRIENDS and 20/20 (and SMILE material).  Maybe they let them copy the whole deal.  Keep in mind, the engineers that worked on it are not lawyers.  They had access to the Capitol’s archives.   Maybe the group wanted the entire output in their possession.

The tapes on the bottom shelf appear to be 1/2" reels (but they could be 1") ... the only thing i can think of is perhaps they were quadraphonic mixes?  There is no other explanation as to why albums like SUNFLOWER would be on 1/2" (4-track) reels.  Quad mixes would make sense, as it was a trend during this period, and Warner-era LPs would be the only albums the group would have the multi-track masters available for.
 
Incidentally, The 3M / Scotch tape company was based out of St. Paul, MN as well.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 06:51:28 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #126 on: April 07, 2011, 07:54:05 PM »

I do not see how his is a hoax -- it was not created by a fan; the tapes on the top shelf are safety copies, I assume authorized by the Beach Boys and part of their tape library at some point in time, namely circa 1973.  As to why this collection included Capitol-era tapes: perhaps Capitol rented them to the group for the purpose of copying them for their archives (this is perfectly feasible – the group could not legally release them).  Come to think of it, 1972-73 was the period in time in which Brother/Warner would have acquired 2-track masters for SMILEY SMILE, WILD HONEY, FRIENDS and 20/20 (and SMILE material).  Maybe they let them copy the whole deal.  Keep in mind, the engineers that worked on it are not lawyers.  They had access to the Capitol’s archives.   Maybe the group wanted the entire output in their possession.

The tapes on the bottom shelf appear to be 1/2" reels (but they could be 1") ... the only thing i can think of is perhaps they were quadraphonic mixes?  There is no other explanation as to why albums like SUNFLOWER would be on 1/2" (4-track) reels.  Quad mixes would make sense, as it was a trend during this period, and Warner-era LPs would be the only albums the group would have the multi-track masters available for.
 
Incidentally, The 3M / Scotch tape company was based out of St. Paul, MN as well.

HA!  I get a kick out of posters like this. They can't see it as a hoax, so they invent  their own possibilities.
 A WHOLE LIBRARY OF BB QUADS!!!

Or, maybe, they're all just empty boxes, as has been posted
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Emdeeh
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« Reply #127 on: April 07, 2011, 08:30:38 PM »

Yep, there's no way of knowing the actual content of those boxes. For all we know, they could be storing jewelry and stocks in there.  LOL



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« Reply #128 on: April 07, 2011, 08:51:30 PM »

Yep, there's no way of knowing the actual content of those boxes. For all we know, they could be storing jewelry and stocks in there.  LOL





or socks!
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« Reply #129 on: April 07, 2011, 09:17:10 PM »

the hoax theory is more preposterous than my quad theory.  i am not convinced they are quad tapes, but why would there be TWO copies of SUNFLOWER?  why would there only be wide boxes for the Warner era albums and the (unmixed) SMILE material?  anyone else have any legitimate theories?  any early experiment with 1/2" 2-track mixdown?  probably not but i can't think of anything else.  but the idea that someone decided to create a hoax and got together a large group of early '70s professional-grade Scotch tape boxes and wrote the name of every released Beach Boys record on them, as well as some that had not been released ... is preposterous.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:32:28 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #130 on: April 07, 2011, 09:18:21 PM »

I mean, what's next to Pet Sounds ? "Tracks" ?  Come ONGrin

stack o tracks
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« Reply #131 on: April 07, 2011, 09:29:54 PM »

the hoax theory is more preposterous than my quad theory.  i am not convinced they are quad tapes, but why would there be TWO copies of SUNFLOWER?  why would there only be wide boxes for the Warner era albums and the (unmixed) SMILE material?  anyone else have any legitimate theories?  any early experiment with 1/2" 2-track mixdown?  probably not.

I'm with you. I was totally thinking Quad too. I think people are too fast to declare this picture is "nothing". I think there's too much going on in it not to say it's "something". Just an homage of empty boxes and an engraved plaque? C'mon...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:31:50 PM by Bubba Ho-Tep » Logged
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« Reply #132 on: April 07, 2011, 09:58:53 PM »

I also believe this is not a fake. Why a fake? Doesn't make sense. Bellagio/Holland, Dumb Angel, etc... Perhaps "Vegetables" between the 1972 recordings is the Jan & Dean version? Perhaps Tracks is Carl & the Passions + Pet Sounds a copy of the C+P master, followed by Spring. Makes sense chronologically.
The Moorman Polaroid of Beach Boys history.
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« Reply #133 on: April 07, 2011, 10:46:51 PM »

the hoax theory is more preposterous than my quad theory.  i am not convinced they are quad tapes, but why would there be TWO copies of SUNFLOWER?  why would there only be wide boxes for the Warner era albums and the (unmixed) SMILE material?  anyone else have any legitimate theories?  any early experiment with 1/2" 2-track mixdown?  probably not but i can't think of anything else. 

Assuming the tape boxes actually have the indicated recordings inside, the fact that the wide boxes contain only the Brother/Reprise and unmixed Smile material is a very interesting observation.  Also important to remember is that there were reel to reel decks that could record up to 16 tracks on half inch tape.  Half inch is certainly not the tape stock you'd use in the early 70s for an original recording of a group like the Beach Boys, but perhaps it could have been used for a multitrack safety copy, although from a sound quality standpoint recording 8 tracks on half inch tape would be preferable to 16.







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Jay
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« Reply #134 on: April 07, 2011, 11:50:34 PM »

Hi! I'm new here (longtime lurker), but this just made me have to register and chime in.

I'm really surprised that nobody has caught a glaring fact.

Ok, on the upside - the tape boxes appear to have been "repaired" by yellow tape with titles written on them, thus the consistent labeling. Note the tops of the boxes on the left lower shelf where the tape overlaps. This would be consistent with product that was out in the 70's, so I don't find this unusual.

Also, as has been pointed out the thermometer - which makes me think of a controlled area similar to a wine cellar, and something that would exist in a serious amateur (small) storage area. Although the "pine" shelves are hardly archival. People really weren't aware of acid-free 40 years ago. Or what about humidity? A large vault would have no such need for these things.

And as has just been pointed out - the plaque that reads: Sound System By Robert P. Rolle

However: This has been poorly edited digitally.

Take a look at the photograph again: http://tinyurl.com/3z88u6p enhanced and noted here.

This has obviously been edited very primitively using a bad/ancient paint program, possibly more than once. Note the rectangular "clones" of black on the back of the lower shelf. The shelf itself has been edited in several places, as has the upright above the plaques. Additionally, the plaque has been purposely obscured - there is no reason that it would be so over exposed while the other plaques read just fine. This makes me think it was edited again as it is a slightly more sophisticated edit. And, for some reason the top row of boxes has been "split" and moved over a couple of pixels (probably during the shelf edit).

Now, the question is: why?
It also appears obvious to me that because of the perspective this is really just one photograph with somebody purposely trying to obscure details of the shelf, perhaps removing a plaque or two on the right and perhaps something on the face of the shelf.

Bottom line: If it's from a polaroid, it's a polaroid of a poorly digitally edited image. I'm guessing it was done in the late 80's all the way up to the early 90's. There have been polaroid printers out for some time.

I've been a graphic designer for 30 years, so I've worked in the pre-digital world as well - and owned a photo lab and digital service bureau to boot. A photographic manipulation would have been more sophisticated, and any 12 year old with a paint program today could do a better job.

My 2˘!

After studying the picture for a few minutes, I have come to the conclusion that parts of the picture have been altered. The one that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is the "plaque" with the name Robert Rolle on it. Notice how the brownish color of the "plaque" seems to blend in with the greenish color directly below the "plaque". I believe that the "plaque" was very poorly inserted into the image after the picture had already been taken, and ended up overlapping with whatever was below. The black "hand writing" on the labels of the boxes also seems to have been added in after the fact.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 11:54:28 PM by Jay » Logged

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« Reply #135 on: April 08, 2011, 12:08:06 AM »

My 1c worth.

You gain exclusive access to Aladdins Cave and you deem it worth one picture and no story?

 Huh
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #136 on: April 08, 2011, 12:15:31 AM »

I do not see how his is a hoax -- it was not created by a fan; the tapes on the top shelf are safety copies, I assume authorized by the Beach Boys and part of their tape library at some point in time, namely circa 1973.  As to why this collection included Capitol-era tapes: perhaps Capitol rented them to the group for the purpose of copying them for their archives (this is perfectly feasible – the group could not legally release them).  Come to think of it, 1972-73 was the period in time in which Brother/Warner would have acquired 2-track masters for SMILEY SMILE, WILD HONEY, FRIENDS and 20/20 (and SMILE material).  Maybe they let them copy the whole deal.  Keep in mind, the engineers that worked on it are not lawyers.  They had access to the Capitol’s archives.   Maybe the group wanted the entire output in their possession.

"I assume...perhaps... Maybe... Maybe..."

The contract with Reprise included all the post-Pet Sounds Capitol albums, granted, but that was signed in early 1970.

If the band couldn't "legally release them", then why bother having copies anyway - they knew where the masters were.

As for the quad mixes assumption... you're basing this on looking at a single photo, the authenticity of which is universally dismissed by those involved with the band and the provenance of which is largely unknown ?  I'll bet you believe the moon landings were faked too, right ?  Grin
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #137 on: April 08, 2011, 12:19:58 AM »

I mean, what's next to Pet Sounds ? "Tracks" ?  Come ONGrin

stack o tracks

Then why not write that ? Almost all the other boxes have the album name in full.

Again, people here are so wound up in wanting it to be real they're missing the many elephants in the room. Worse, inventing newer, and increasingly outlandish theories. Once more: Steve Desper says it's faked, as does Steve Moffitt. These guys were engineers who were there at the time.
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« Reply #138 on: April 08, 2011, 12:28:33 AM »

Agree that this is intriguing! Enjoying the fun.

Just a thought - are those Beach Boy tape boxes that are stacked on the cover of the Stack-o-Tracks album from 1968? I only have the 2-fer disc with Party! and it is not easy to read the box spines in the artwork, but there may be similarity with the shelf items in Ed's polaroid photo. Anyone have the Capitol LP or can post a decent resolution scan of the S-o-T cover? There are yellow spines and white spines and the detective in me says it would be nice to be able to see just what they are.
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« Reply #139 on: April 08, 2011, 12:32:21 AM »

Maybe this is Brian's secret vault! Where he mixed his own versions of all the beach boys material. All these years he's just been fooling around and when he dies there's a provision in his will to release the contents of this vault including his vintage completed "Dumb Angel"

However, like Atlantis, the location of this vault has now been washed away, Brian just can't recall where he buried it. Robert Rolle and Paul Bramsem were fake personas Brian created for himself to entertain him while he worked. That's why there's no record of these people, because they're not real, just characters Brian dreamed up.

This photograph is all that remains!!! Brian hid clues around just in case he ever forgot, so he slipped this into Ed Roach's archives when nobody was looking. Somewhere in that picture, there's another clue buried. And whoever follows all the clues will likely be lead to a secret vault deep below the Bellagio house, where 20 years of repressed creativity lurk.

Who dares seek out the forbidden vault? Who is bold enough!
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #140 on: April 08, 2011, 12:36:07 AM »

Agree that this is intriguing! Enjoying the fun.

Just a thought - are those Beach Boy tape boxes that are stacked on the cover of the Stack-o-Tracks album from 1968? I only have the 2-fer disc with Party! and it is not easy to read the box spines in the artwork, but there may be similarity with the shelf items in Ed's polaroid photo. Anyone have the Capitol LP or can post a decent resolution scan of the S-o-T cover? There are yellow spines and white spines and the detective in me says it would be nice to be able to see just what they are.

They are indeed, and it's my thinking that the people who staged this fake/hoax/whatever saw that and used it as a basis. If they'd had a better quality copy, they'd have noticed that the tape boxes are indexed as per the Leaf photo.

Here's a larger image than the 2fer booklet:

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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #141 on: April 08, 2011, 12:37:00 AM »

Maybe this is Brian's secret vault! Where he mixed his own versions of all the beach boys material. All these years he's just been fooling around and when he dies there's a provision in his will to release the contents of this vault including his vintage completed "Dumb Angel"

However, like Atlantis, the location of this vault has now been washed away, Brian just can't recall where he buried it. Robert Rolle and Paul Bramsem were fake personas Brian created for himself to entertain him while he worked. That's why there's no record of these people, because they're not real, just characters Brian dreamed up.

This photograph is all that remains!!! Brian hid clues around just in case he ever forgot, so he slipped this into Ed Roach's archives when nobody was looking. Somewhere in that picture, there's another clue buried. And whoever follows all the clues will likely be lead to a secret vault deep below the Bellagio house, where 20 years of repressed creativity lurk.

Who dares seek out the forbidden vault? Who is bold enough!

I'll get right on it, as soon as I've uncovered Noah's Ark and the Ark of the Covenant.
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« Reply #142 on: April 08, 2011, 12:40:45 AM »

Thanks Andrew. I was trying to see if any similarity in handwritten style or spellings, etc. My eyes are just not up to scanning a CD booklet these days.
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« Reply #143 on: April 08, 2011, 05:47:23 AM »

I mean, what's next to Pet Sounds ? "Tracks" ?  Come ONGrin

stack o tracks

Again, people here are so wound up in wanting it to be real they're missing the many elephants in the room. Worse, inventing newer, and increasingly outlandish theories. Once more: Steve Desper says it's faked, as does Steve Moffitt. These guys were engineers who were there at the time.

Then why start the topic in the first place? Just to line up people who hypothesize out loud so they can be ridiculed?
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« Reply #144 on: April 08, 2011, 05:51:12 AM »

I mean, what's next to Pet Sounds ? "Tracks" ?  Come ON !  Grin

stack o tracks

Again, people here are so wound up in wanting it to be real they're missing the many elephants in the room. Worse, inventing newer, and increasingly outlandish theories. Once more: Steve Desper says it's faked, as does Steve Moffitt. These guys were engineers who were there at the time.

Then why start the topic in the first place? Just to line up people who hypothesize out loud so they can be ridiculed?

I didn't start it.  Ed was just trying to figure out what, where and when.  To my keenly analytical mind, the answers (according to the available evidence and discounting flights of fancy) woudl seem to be "fake", "no idea" and "between early 1973/summer 1974".

As for ridiculing those who hypothesize, I think that's reasonable when said hypothesis is itself ridiculous (e.g. that because some of the boxes are wider they're quad mixes - should have said this at the time, but the only albums fully mixed for quad were Flame, Surf's Up, Spring and CATP (badly)).
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« Reply #145 on: April 08, 2011, 06:17:27 AM »

Hey guys, I've been following this thread and I thought I'd throw in my thoughts, seeing as how things are heating up. All i want to say is that the reason the photo is interesting to me is that it is a mystery, nothing more. I'm interested in knowing, for as close to a fact as we can, what the story is. After all if we dont figure it out who ever will. I think there are certainly enough  things going on in the picture to give each side of the argument some ammo, but let's just try to solve the thing as much as it can be. No matter if you think it is ordinary or extraordinary, or (like me) try not to jump to either, it's fun to do some detective work. We need something until more smile news anyhow
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« Reply #146 on: April 08, 2011, 06:23:29 AM »

Hey guys, I've been following this thread and I thought I'd throw in my thoughts, seeing as how things are heating up. All i want to say is that the reason the photo is interesting to me is that it is a mystery, nothing more. I'm interested in knowing, for as close to a fact as we can, what the story is. After all if we dont figure it out who ever will. I think there are certainly enough  things going on in the picture to give each side of the argument some ammo, but let's just try to solve the thing as much as it can be. No matter if you think it is ordinary or extraordinary, or (like me) try not to jump to either, it's fun to do some detective work. We need something until more smile news anyhow

For sure - I looove wrapping my head around things like this, as do others here, but we're obviously coming at it from different corners.  That's cool, as long as we get to the bottom of it, or at least reach something close to a consensus, and both sides are defending their views robustly... but somehow, I doubt a middle ground will be achieved.  Grin
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« Reply #147 on: April 08, 2011, 06:38:04 AM »

Hey guys, I've been following this thread and I thought I'd throw in my thoughts, seeing as how things are heating up. All i want to say is that the reason the photo is interesting to me is that it is a mystery, nothing more. I'm interested in knowing, for as close to a fact as we can, what the story is. After all if we dont figure it out who ever will. I think there are certainly enough  things going on in the picture to give each side of the argument some ammo, but let's just try to solve the thing as much as it can be. No matter if you think it is ordinary or extraordinary, or (like me) try not to jump to either, it's fun to do some detective work. We need something until more smile news anyhow

For sure - I looove wrapping my head around things like this, as do others here, but we're obviously coming at it from different corners.  That's cool, as long as we get to the bottom of it, or at least reach something close to a consensus, and both sides are defending their views robustly... but somehow, I doubt a middle ground will be achieved.  Grin

Yer right, in that there's probably no middle ground.


Again, people here are so wound up in wanting it to be real they're missing the many elephants in the room. Worse, inventing newer, and increasingly outlandish theories. Once more: Steve Desper says it's faked, as does Steve Moffitt. These guys were engineers who were there at the time.

Then why start the topic in the first place? Just to line up people who hypothesize out loud so they can be ridiculed?

I didn't start it.  Ed was just trying to figure out what, where and when.  To my keenly analytical mind, the answers (according to the available evidence and discounting flights of fancy) woudl seem to be "fake", "no idea" and "between early 1973/summer 1974".

As for ridiculing those who hypothesize, I think that's reasonable when said hypothesis is itself ridiculous (e.g. that because some of the boxes are wider they're quad mixes - should have said this at the time, but the only albums fully mixed for quad were Flame, Surf's Up, Spring and CATP (badly)).

Ed's original post was looking for real info; but as happens here, consistently, everyone wants to jump in with what couldashouldawoulda, instead of just agreeing they don't know anything useful. 
Myself, knowing what a huge fan of reels he was, I believe the photo is a shot of Coach's personal basement archive.
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« Reply #148 on: April 08, 2011, 06:41:57 AM »

Ed's original post was looking for real info; but as happens here, consistently, everyone wants to jump in with what couldashouldawoulda, instead of just agreeing they don't know anything useful. 

I resemble that remark !

I know many useful things... just so happens that what's really in that photo isn't one of them.

Yet.  Dead Horse
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« Reply #149 on: April 08, 2011, 06:49:01 AM »

the hoax theory is more preposterous than my quad theory.  i am not convinced they are quad tapes, but why would there be TWO copies of SUNFLOWER?  why would there only be wide boxes for the Warner era albums and the (unmixed) SMILE material?  anyone else have any legitimate theories?  any early experiment with 1/2" 2-track mixdown?  probably not but i can't think of anything else. 

Assuming the tape boxes actually have the indicated recordings inside, the fact that the wide boxes contain only the Brother/Reprise and unmixed Smile material is a very interesting observation.  Also important to remember is that there were reel to reel decks that could record up to 16 tracks on half inch tape.  Half inch is certainly not the tape stock you'd use in the early 70s for an original recording of a group like the Beach Boys, but perhaps it could have been used for a multitrack safety copy, although from a sound quality standpoint recording 8 tracks on half inch tape would be preferable to 16.









Those types of machines did exist come until much later; any 1/2" tapes in 1973 would be 4-track, any 1" tapes would be 8-track.
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