How to get lost SMiLE material BaCK?

[Cam Mott]

Some of you collector type: what would be the best way to get word to people who might have SMiLE tapes, acetates, etc.?

As a sticky on message boards like here, Hoffman's, more specialized boards? Articles in Record Collector, Billboard, Rolling Stone, etc.? Blogs, swap meet posters, Penny Saver? I'm sure I'm showing my age and ignorance but what are some good ideas? Or is the whole thing a bad idea and none of it would likely reach the right people?

[The Heartical Don]

Some you collector type: what would be the best way to get word to people who might have SMiLE tapes, acetates, etc.?

As a sticky on message boards like here Hoffman's, more specialized boards? Articles in Record Collector, Billboard, Rolling Stone, etc.? Blogs, swap meet posters, Penny Saver? I'm sure I'm showing my age and ignorance but what are some good ideas? Or is the whole thing a bad idea and none of it would likely reach the right people?

A Presidential Address to the nation. Live, simultaneously broadcast on all stations. The words 'patriotic duty' should be used multiple times. Also: 'appropriate punishment in case of...', 'Guantánamo Bay', and 'waterboarding'.

Will that do?

[Cam Mott]

Good start! What else?

[bgas]

Some you collector type: what would be the best way to get word to people who might have SMiLE tapes, acetates, etc.?

As a sticky on message boards like here Hoffman's, more specialized boards? Articles in Record Collector, Billboard, Rolling Stone, etc.? Blogs, swap meet posters, Penny Saver? I'm sure I'm showing my age and ignorance but what are some good ideas? Or is the whole thing a bad idea and none of it would likely reach the right people?

A Presidential Address to the nation. Live, simultaneously broadcast on all stations. The words 'patriotic duty' should be used multiple times. Also: 'appropriate punishment in case of...', 'Guantánamo Bay', and 'waterboarding'.

Will that do?

That sounds about right. Tho for those who don't tune into presidential addresses, I'd add they should attach large billboards on both sides of the Goodyear blimp and do multiple passses over every square inch of the US, Japan, UK and Germany( where most of the obsessive coillectors reside)

[Cam Mott]

How about an appeal on Dancing With The Stars or Two and a Half Men or their equivalent in countries outside the US?

[Mooger Fooger]

In all seriousness, when the telemetry tape search began for the Apollo 11 raw TV footage, the first port of call were the National Archives, NASA and JSC. (In the case of the BBs these would be Capitol Archives, Brother and whichever studios were woirked at during Smile.

Then engineers who worked at tracking stations and the TV departments of network TV stations were approached. In the BBs case this would be the engineers, and artists who were actively involved in thesessions, perhaps even local DJs etc who may have been given acetates.

Then über-space relic collectors were approached to see what they may have had in their collection. In one case a lead was discovered by a post on google videos which did yield the clearest view of Armstrong coming down the ladder. In the BBs case this would be collectors known to have material that isn't widely circulated. In NASA's case a waiver against prosecution was made, so too should it be in the BBs case.

When these resources were drying up, the approval was sought to broadcast the search on the news wires. That then opened up places such as the CBS archives and people who may not have internet connection.


In the end while the telemtry tapes were not found, the clearest best looking video made after scan conversion certainly was and the difference is very noticeable.

[bgas]

In all seriousness, when the telemetry tape search began for the Apollo 11 raw TV footage, the first port of call were the National Archives, NASA and JSC. (In the case of the BBs these would be Capitol Archives, Brother and whichever studios were woirked at during Smile.

Then engineers who worked at tracking stations and the TV departments of network TV stations were approached. In the BBs case this would be the engineers, and artists who were actively involved in thesessions, perhaps even local DJs etc who may have been given acetates.

Then über-space relic collectors were approached to see what they may have had in their collection. In one case a lead was discovered by a post on google videos which did yield the clearest view of Armstrong coming down the ladder. In the BBs case this would be collectors known to have material that isn't widely circulated. In NASA's case a waiver against prosecution was made, so too should it be in the BBs case.

When these resources were drying up, the approval was sought to broadcast the search on the news wires. That then opened up places such as the CBS archives and people who may not have internet connection.


In the end while the telemtry tapes were not found, the clearest best looking video made after scan conversion certainly was and the difference is very noticeable.

And this was all to find footage of them faking the landing in the desert?

[Mooger Fooger]

Thems is fighting words...

<chews on my tibacce>

[The Heartical Don]

In all seriousness, when the telemetry tape search began for the Apollo 11 raw TV footage, the first port of call were the National Archives, NASA and JSC. (In the case of the BBs these would be Capitol Archives, Brother and whichever studios were woirked at during Smile.

Then engineers who worked at tracking stations and the TV departments of network TV stations were approached. In the BBs case this would be the engineers, and artists who were actively involved in thesessions, perhaps even local DJs etc who may have been given acetates.

Then über-space relic collectors were approached to see what they may have had in their collection. In one case a lead was discovered by a post on google videos which did yield the clearest view of Armstrong coming down the ladder. In the BBs case this would be collectors known to have material that isn't widely circulated. In NASA's case a waiver against prosecution was made, so too should it be in the BBs case.

When these resources were drying up, the approval was sought to broadcast the search on the news wires. That then opened up places such as the CBS archives and people who may not have internet connection.


In the end while the telemtry tapes were not found, the clearest best looking video made after scan conversion certainly was and the difference is very noticeable.

And this was all to find footage of them faking the landing in the desert?

Yeah... and the flag was waving in a wind that can't exist...

[rab2591]

In all seriousness, when the telemetry tape search began for the Apollo 11 raw TV footage, the first port of call were the National Archives, NASA and JSC. (In the case of the BBs these would be Capitol Archives, Brother and whichever studios were woirked at during Smile.

Then engineers who worked at tracking stations and the TV departments of network TV stations were approached. In the BBs case this would be the engineers, and artists who were actively involved in thesessions, perhaps even local DJs etc who may have been given acetates.

Then über-space relic collectors were approached to see what they may have had in their collection. In one case a lead was discovered by a post on google videos which did yield the clearest view of Armstrong coming down the ladder. In the BBs case this would be collectors known to have material that isn't widely circulated. In NASA's case a waiver against prosecution was made, so too should it be in the BBs case.

When these resources were drying up, the approval was sought to broadcast the search on the news wires. That then opened up places such as the CBS archives and people who may not have internet connection.


In the end while the telemtry tapes were not found, the clearest best looking video made after scan conversion certainly was and the difference is very noticeable.

And this was all to find footage of them faking the landing in the desert?

Yeah... and the flag was waving in a wind that can't exist...

Are you all insinuating that the SMiLE fragments were recorded in an Air Force hanger in the desert of Nevada?

[Mooger Fooger]

Yeah and everyone knows microphones dont work in a vacuum so that rules out that Smile was recorded on the moon.

[Cam Mott]

I was under the impression that all of those avenues had been pursued and all that was left was collectors and theives and cohorts/heirs. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Mahalo]

Maybe we can find the ashes from the fire that consumed Surf's Up pt. 2....I wouldn't mind keeping that in an urn above the mantle.

[Mooger Fooger]

Cam, the funniest thing with the A11 stuff is that is was found is the most unlikely of places. A TV station in Sydney also had some Honeysuckle Creek footage as opposed to the Goldstone footage (go to www.honeysucklecreek.net for background on the two tracking stations) and no-one thought to look there. It was found because I knew the archivist and off-handedly suggested looking there. Half-baked conspiracy rubbish notwithstanding.

[The Shift]

One wonders how many copies of Ant Bee's DYLWs such a process would turn up?

[hypehat]

Yeah and everyone knows microphones dont work in a vacuum so that rules out that Smile was recorded on the moon.

Well guys, that has shattered my SMiLE preconceptions. I'm not even sure I want this boxset anymore....

[Catbirdman]

Just to underscore the situation Cam is addresssing, here's a quote from Mark Linett, taken from the 2004 interview with him and Darian published in Sound on Sound:

"We've pretty well searched all the legitimate places," explains Mark. "I've been through the library from CBS, where Brian used to do vocals, for example; all the places that we assume would bring up tapes if they still existed. An awful lot of SMiLE has simply gone missing over the years. What's tragic about it is that I think some of it's not inadvertent; I think people have deliberately stolen stuff. So some tapes couldn't be referenced to finish the record."

And from later in the same article:

"I hope some day we can get all this stuff back", says Mark. "I don't care how somebody got something — if they have it, I'd love to hear from them."

I do think Mark and Alan have leads. What I wonder is do they have (Capitol's) cash to dangle carrot-like in front of the hoarders? But doesn't this stuff technically belong to Capitol, and/or BRI in the first place? I'm hoping someone can chime in on the legalities of these matters.

As much as I loved BWPS for achieving so grandly what it sought out to do - that is, assemble the known SMiLE pieces into a listenable sequence in the here and now - at the time I couldn't help but be disappointed by the lack of previously-unknown knowledge that came out of that archival effort. Basically, we had two things: 1. the vintage "Worms" melody and lyrics (and even then, we had already seen most of those lyrics before in ESQ), and 2. Alan Boyd's discovery of the "I'm In Great Shape" backing track recorded at an H&V session in October (and even then, we had already heard the Humble Harv November 4 demo). The rest of BWPS was either working with the source material we had already heard on bootlegs, or 2003-period segues, assemblies, and lyrics.

The $64 million question in my mind is what has happened in the years since? Who has been approached? What leads have turned up? What tapes have turned up? I'm afraid that anyone who has enough insider information to truly answer those questions is not in a position to do so on a public message board. At least not yet...

In the meantime, what can WE do to be helpful (and not a hindrance) in the archival recovery efforts? Anything?? I doubt that those of us far from the inner circles (which is me, certainly, and 99% of the posters here I would imagine) can't really do much of anything, other than wait and discuss.

[guitarfool2002]

How about an appeal on Dancing With The Stars or Two and a Half Men or their equivalent in countries outside the US?

I say get Charlie Sheen involved immediately and have him mention it on his webcasts. 

[Roger Ryan]

That makes two great posts "Catbirdman"!

For as excited as we are about the upcoming release, Mark's statement along with what Alan has said is very sobering. We're not going to hear much we're unfamiliar with simply because a lot of the material has disappeared. Even that vintage "Worms" melody used on BWPS was reportedly remembered by Brian himself and not found on the original tapes. I guess any little nuggets will be thrilling, but I won't expect too much more.

[guitarfool2002]

One wonders how many copies of Ant Bee's DYLWs such a process would turn up?

I was thinking along the same lines but with well-worn copies of "Endless Summer" flooding into the offices instead of actual Smile material.

[Bicyclerider]

J.

The $64 million question in my mind is what has happened in the years since? Who has been approached? What leads have turned up? What tapes have turned up? I'm afraid that anyone who has enough insider information to truly answer those questions is not in a position to do so on a public message board. At least not yet...

In the meantime, what can WE do to be helpful (and not a hindrance) in the archival recovery efforts? Anything?? I doubt that those of us far from the inner circles (which is me, certainly, and 99% of the posters here I would imagine) can't really do much of anything, other than wait and discuss.

Well since then alan boyd has been going through the Beach Boys archive with a fine toothcomb, cataloguing tapes and listening to EVERYTHING so previously unknown stuff stuck at the end of a reel for an album or a single session would be revealed.  I'm sure that some new stuff has come out of this search - it sounds like it from Mark's interview.

Whenever they get a lead about missing tapes, they pursue it - as they did with the Shut Down Vol. 2 tapes a couple of years ago where they got back some missing multis.  With the announcement of this project hopefully people that have tapes in their possession will contact Alan and try to arrange something so they can be used.

[bgas]

J.

The $64 million question in my mind is what has happened in the years since? Who has been approached? What leads have turned up? What tapes have turned up? I'm afraid that anyone who has enough insider information to truly answer those questions is not in a position to do so on a public message board. At least not yet...

In the meantime, what can WE do to be helpful (and not a hindrance) in the archival recovery efforts? Anything?? I doubt that those of us far from the inner circles (which is me, certainly, and 99% of the posters here I would imagine) can't really do much of anything, other than wait and discuss.

Well since then alan boyd has been going through the Beach Boys archive with a fine toothcomb, cataloguing tapes and listening to EVERYTHING so previously unknown stuff stuck at the end of a reel for an album or a single session would be revealed.  I'm sure that some new stuff has come out of this search - it sounds like it from Mark's interview.

Whenever they get a lead about missing tapes, they pursue it - as they did with the Shut Down Vol. 2 tapes a couple of years ago where they got back some missing multis.  With the announcement of this project hopefully people that have tapes in their possession will contact Alan and try to arrange something so they can be used.

I hope so also; but I think there will have to be $$ changing hands for that to happen; Part of the collectibility of having an acetate with otherwise unheard material is being the only one that can listen to it. Once it's copied, it will diminish in value somewhat. How much is tough to say

[Catbirdman]

Well since then alan boyd has been going through the Beach Boys archive with a fine toothcomb, cataloguing tapes and listening to EVERYTHING so previously unknown stuff stuck at the end of a reel for an album or a single session would be revealed.  I'm sure that some new stuff has come out of this search - it sounds like it from Mark's interview.

Good point. You know, I have an odd optimism about this release - my gut feeling is that we'll actually be treated to LOTS that we haven't heard before, just as a result of Alan's digging over the past 7-8 years. I mean, all it takes is to find one unlabelled comp reel and right there you very well could have a handful of works-in-progress, snapshots that stand on their own even if the multis remain missing or incomplete.

A quick off-the-top-of-my-head list of documented sessions that could turn up, either through finding the multi-tracks or mono mixdowns:
- the mix of Wind Chimes that Michael Vosse describes in the Fusion article
- vox for I Ran
- more vox for CIFOTM
- the missing IIGS vocal session
- the missing Cabin Essence tracking
- and of course the holy grail: the Jan. 23 session for Surf's Up (my gut tells me this one is lost for good though... they couldn't even find it back in '71)

Whenever they get a lead about missing tapes, they pursue it - as they did with the Shut Down Vol. 2 tapes a couple of years ago where they got back some missing multis.  With the announcement of this project hopefully people that have tapes in their possession will contact Alan and try to arrange something so they can be used.

Wow, I had not heard about that about the Shut Down Vol. 2 tapes; been lost and gone and unknown for a while, not checking BB message boards. Could you share more of the story? How it all happened, what exactly was found (the whole LP?), etc.

[smile-holland]

Wow, I had not heard about that about the Shut Down Vol. 2 tapes; been lost and gone and unknown for a while, not checking BB message boards. Could you share more of the story? How it all happened, what exactly was found (the whole LP?), etc.

try these topics, catbirdman:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,7109.0.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,7746.0.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8214.msg171839.html#msg171839

[Catbirdman]

try these topics, catbirdman:

Thank you kind sir. Reading and enjoying now.

So those tapes turned up as a result of an article in a local publication. Seems kind of a random and magical tale.

I was just wondering, why not use social media as a way of getting word out? If Capitol is really serious about finding lost tapes, perhaps they could tweet that they're looking for them? Put something on their Facebook page. Liaise with various trade mags and musical entities to tweet the same message: Capitol Records looking to recover lost Beach Boys tapes, bla bla bla... just get it into the public consciousness.