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Question: Should this discussion be moved to the Sandbox?
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Author Topic: SMiLE Sessions box set!  (Read 1728515 times)
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« Reply #9225 on: November 14, 2011, 05:51:01 AM »

Has everyone listened to all 5 discs?

I've played all 5 twice now, a lot of the studio session stuff has major replay value
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« Reply #9226 on: November 14, 2011, 06:25:31 AM »

I've had them playing in rotation since I opened the box – which was a week after I received it. Due to work and family, tho', I still haven't had a decent break during which I can listen to them with eyes closed in a darkened room, so I know I'm still missing sooooooo much of the new-to-us minutiae.  

The new DYLW melody (if it is indeed a previously missing melody) has been trapped between my ears for days – love it.

Disc 1, which I've listened to most on accout of having the 1CD, 2CD and iTunes download versions as well as the box, I have a few problems with.

Not terribly fond of the Surf's Up patch-together – sorry M&A – and still yearn for the 1971 version. We now have four originals – the partial Bertstein rough cut, the '66 demo recorded the same day (I believe), the '67 tack piano version and the '71, which for me is definitive. I don't think we need this new verion – Annie Wallace had taken care of business with the rolling of one's own and I find this a bit superfluous.

The momentary gaps between Great Shape and Barnyard, then Barnyard and My Only Sunshine really grate – it's like someone burned the discs in iTunes and thought there ought to be a brief pause between songs, not realising they were meant for smooth transitions.  I hope this gets fixed.

I'd also like to know more about the sound shift in Cabinessence at around 1 minute in. It's like someone throwing a towel over my speakers.

Please don't read this as a moan.

Far as I'm concerned my music collection is now complete. This is the bee's knees, the dog's bollocks, the last word in pop & rock perfection.  The only thing that can top this is a 6, 7 or 8 CD version of TSS, with newly discovered tracks – and I don't think that's going to happen.

Addition: then there's that annoying click on Disc 1, track 21 Heroes and Villains (Stereo Mix) at 3.33.  Otherwise that's a wonderful piece of work, much needed!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 07:52:37 AM by John Manning » Logged

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« Reply #9227 on: November 14, 2011, 09:28:17 AM »

The momentary gaps between Great Shape and Barnyard, then Barnyard and My Only Sunshine really grate – it's like someone burned the discs in iTunes and thought there ought to be a brief pause between songs, not realising they were meant for smooth transitions.  I hope this gets fixed.

There is a slight pause between "Shape" and "Barnyard" (although not much of one), but there is no pause between "Barnyard" and "Sunshine" - it has the same seamless blend as BWPS. You are referring to the CD versions, right? My discs don't have this problem.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 09:29:30 AM by Roger Ryan » Logged
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« Reply #9228 on: November 14, 2011, 09:52:40 AM »

The momentary gaps between Great Shape and Barnyard, then Barnyard and My Only Sunshine really grate – it's like someone burned the discs in iTunes and thought there ought to be a brief pause between songs, not realising they were meant for smooth transitions.  I hope this gets fixed.

There is a slight pause between "Shape" and "Barnyard" (although not much of one), but there is no pause between "Barnyard" and "Sunshine" - it has the same seamless blend as BWPS. You are referring to the CD versions, right? My discs don't have this problem.

Yeah - almost sounds like you've ripped this to a cd without setting the preferences to 'no gaps' in Itunes. There certainly shouldn't be a gap between Barnyard/OMP - it's one of my favourite transitions of the disc 1 sequence.
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« Reply #9229 on: November 14, 2011, 09:53:49 AM »

Has everyone listened to all 5 discs?

I've played all 5 twice now, a lot of the studio session stuff has major replay value

I've had them all in solid rotation for the last few weeks (aside from disc 5, which I went through once and probably won't in its entirety again), and you're right, the studio sessions really do hold up.  I feel like I'm discovering something new each time, whether it be a new bit of studio chatter or something in an arrangement that I'd missed.  

Listening to disc 2 especially is quite a trip, hearing "Heroes" unfold chronologically, eventually spiraling out of control due to Brian's incessant tinkering - it's almost painful in a way, but at the same time I find myself amazed that the guy came up with so many brilliant parts for just one little pop single.
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« Reply #9230 on: November 14, 2011, 11:35:17 AM »

I listened to all the studio discs about twice. since then I've just been listening to the "Joe Public" album nonstop. after I get burned out on that I'll go back to the session discs.
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« Reply #9231 on: November 14, 2011, 12:51:51 PM »

The momentary gaps between Great Shape and Barnyard, then Barnyard and My Only Sunshine really grate – it's like someone burned the discs in iTunes and thought there ought to be a brief pause between songs, not realising they were meant for smooth transitions.  I hope this gets fixed.

There is a slight pause between "Shape" and "Barnyard" (although not much of one), but there is no pause between "Barnyard" and "Sunshine" - it has the same seamless blend as BWPS. You are referring to the CD versions, right? My discs don't have this problem.

Yeah - almost sounds like you've ripped this to a cd without setting the preferences to 'no gaps' in Itunes. There certainly shouldn't be a gap between Barnyard/OMP - it's one of my favourite transitions of the disc 1 sequence.

I suspect you might be right – though I can't for the life of me find the setting in preferences for getting rid of that import option.  At the moment I'm getting the same gaps in both the ripped-from-CD versions and the iTunes download, which is even more annoying now I find that it's something I could undo easily!

Any suggestions gratefully accepted!
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« Reply #9232 on: November 14, 2011, 02:41:31 PM »

The momentary gaps between Great Shape and Barnyard, then Barnyard and My Only Sunshine really grate – it's like someone burned the discs in iTunes and thought there ought to be a brief pause between songs, not realising they were meant for smooth transitions.  I hope this gets fixed.

There is a slight pause between "Shape" and "Barnyard" (although not much of one), but there is no pause between "Barnyard" and "Sunshine" - it has the same seamless blend as BWPS. You are referring to the CD versions, right? My discs don't have this problem.

Yeah - almost sounds like you've ripped this to a cd without setting the preferences to 'no gaps' in Itunes. There certainly shouldn't be a gap between Barnyard/OMP - it's one of my favourite transitions of the disc 1 sequence.

I suspect you might be right – though I can't for the life of me find the setting in preferences for getting rid of that import option.  At the moment I'm getting the same gaps in both the ripped-from-CD versions and the iTunes download, which is even more annoying now I find that it's something I could undo easily!

Any suggestions gratefully accepted!

I've heard you don't get this problem with cassette tapes. Why not copy the CD onto a good quality type ii cassette? It's durable, and you can quickly jump to the track you want by "forward winding" or "re-winding" the tape.
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« Reply #9233 on: November 14, 2011, 03:05:13 PM »

what if you go too far? then you can't rewind
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« Reply #9234 on: November 14, 2011, 03:09:24 PM »

what if you go too far? then you can't rewind

Not a problem! Just turn the cassette over. Unlike CD's, you can record on both sides!!!
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« Reply #9235 on: November 14, 2011, 03:55:24 PM »

Okay, here are my notes on the SMiLE Sessions box set.

What a discovery about hearing Brian singing some original lyrics to "Holidays"!  (I forgot who first noticed it, but Big Kahuna kudos to you!)

On the "Cornucopia" version of "Vega-Tables" you've got the background lyric, "Rolling all around, dig a hole in the ground."  (Okay, the lyric sheet says "Roll all around", but it sounds like "Rolling all around" to me.)   And if you look at the Frank Holmes drawing of "Vege-Tables" that is printed on the 45 in the box set you'll see that there's a drawing in the left hand bottom corner of a "hole in the ground"!

I wish Frank Holmes drawings had been printed at full size in the book.  Maybe Frank will produce an art book with them?  I'd definitely buy it!  (And if I were a publisher I'd definitely publish it!)

"Da Da" -- CD-4, track 8 -- there's is some kind of weird percussion on the track that is listed as "percussion unknown".  I tried opening and closing a pair of scissors and came very close to the sound.  (Maybe if I had an all metal pair of scissors it would have matched it even better?)  But I'm not saying conclusively that it's a pair of scissors.  But if you wanted to recreate the sound you'd come pretty close.

"I Don't Know" seems to remind me a folk song or an old standard, but I can't think of which one.  Does it sound familiar to anyone else?

And I'd like to know what documentation exists that attributes the writing of "I Don't Know" to Dennis, and of "Tones/Tune X" to Carl.

"Teeter Totter Love" -- okay it's a strange track to start with -- but those girls singing "Yeah, yeah!" is the strangest part of it!  Is that something from a sounds effects tape that is thrown in, or was it done live?  It sounds canned to me.

Did anyone else have problems with skips and/or dropouts with the CD's?  I heard a few on my discs, but I think it's my disc player's age that is showing.  When I finally realized that these dropouts might be caused by my machine instead of being problems with the original tapes I waited for the next one I heard and went right back and played it again, and lo and behold it played perfectly the second time.  I haven't had time to go back and check the other discs again -- this is a huge set!  It takes a really long time to listen to everything!  (So hopefully it's just a minor glitch with my player, and not manufacturing defects.)

But there does seem to be some kind of CD or original tape glitch just before the 2 minute mark of track 19 on CD-2, which I don't think is my disc player.  It's "H&V Prelude to Fade", and there's a slide whistle and strings going on, and then the slide whistle quickly repeats with a short drop-out of the strings.  Is this what was on the original tape, or is it some kind of digital mistake?

"I'm In Great Shape" -- I'm leaning toward Brian singing "open country", rather than "agriculture".  I'm hearing a "P" sound instead a "G", and I'm hearing an "eeee" sound for country, instead of an "er" or "ure" sound for agriculture.  And if anyone remembers, David Oppenheim wrote "open country" in the notes he took for the "Inside Pop" special.

"All Day" -- this has a new section I've never heard, and this is probably the biggest and best piece of new instrumental music on the set in my opinion.  And then Brian is heard saying that there is going to be talking going on between breaks in the track -- and then says he's going to show them (the Boys?) what he wants them to do on the track.  I sure wish they had kept the tape rolling for that!  Another seemingly forever lost SMiLE idea.

"Heroes and Villains" -- another cool and interesting new musical idea is the "villainous" piano trill for "H&V" on track 23, CD-2.

"Heroes and Villains" -- track 27, CD-2 -- the "H&V" chorus has clanks, like the hitting of railroad spikes, and rattle and sandpaper sounds like the chugging of a train engine.  Was this an attempt by Brian to connect the song to "Cabinessence" in some way?  Then again, we've also got a vocalized train whistle in other "H&V" sessions, so it could just go with that.  But just maybe it was more of Brian's attempt to have SMiLE be symphonic in nature with different themes showing up throughout the piece?

"Heroes and Villains"  -- track 28, CD-2, "Prelude to Fade" -- the track which Barnyard was sang over?  (If not, it can be sang over it, I think.)  It's interesting that some takes have bird sounds on them!  We haven't heard them before on any previous leaked takes.  There's also a line, probably from a muted trumpet, that sounds to me as if it was supposed to represent the bleating of a lamb, or the mooing of a cow.

And my final new observation (for now at least) is the SMiLE ad -- you know the one where that says, "We're sure to sell a million units in January!"  Well, all this time I think all of us thought the ad was saying Capitol was expecting to sell a million copies of SMiLE.  But now that I've heard more from the beginning of the ad, I don't think it says that at all!  I think Capitol is saying they're hoping to sell a million units of records -- all records -- (with SMiLE included) -- in the month of January!  So I think this is one long held assumption that now becomes a SMiLE myth, and that can, unfortunately, be laid to rest!


Long live SMiLE,   Dan Lega
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« Reply #9236 on: November 14, 2011, 05:18:51 PM »

Got questions?
Got answers.
Dan: It's your CD player.  If it's a few years old the lens may be dirty.  Get a lens clearner-brush thingy from Best Buy or such.  Or play the CDs in a newer player, or your computer CD drive, and see what happens.  Bet one of Cam's donuts there'll be no skipping or dropouts.  Could be dirt on the CDs themselves but it really has to be bad (or a bad scratch) to dropout, stick or skip.

Mr Manning: If you're ripping CDs from mp3's or iTunes AAC files,  a built-in "blip" is built into the beginning of each sound file.  No way to lose those blips unless you upsample the files.   Put another way, in order to join the segues properly,  convert or rip the tracks as Apple Lossless or WAV or FLAC files, then burn a CD or use your server to play them in order.
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« Reply #9237 on: November 14, 2011, 07:41:34 PM »

"I'm In Great Shape" -- I'm leaning toward Brian singing "open country", rather than "agriculture".  I'm hearing a "P" sound instead a "G", and I'm hearing an "eeee" sound for country, instead of an "er" or "ure" sound for agriculture.  And if anyone remembers, David Oppenheim wrote "open country" in the notes he took for the "Inside Pop" special.

Yeah, Brian is clearly NOT singing the word 'agriculture,' so it's a shame that the editor(s) of the liner notes simply copied and pasted the BWPS lyric. 

Same goes for "Out in the FARMYARD, the cook is chopping lumber."  Sure, in BWPS, the word is 'barnyard,' but this ain't BWPS.   Sad
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« Reply #9238 on: November 14, 2011, 10:55:17 PM »

"I'm In Great Shape" -- I'm leaning toward Brian singing "open country", rather than "agriculture".  I'm hearing a "P" sound instead a "G", and I'm hearing an "eeee" sound for country, instead of an "er" or "ure" sound for agriculture.  And if anyone remembers, David Oppenheim wrote "open country" in the notes he took for the "Inside Pop" special.

Yeah, Brian is clearly NOT singing the word 'agriculture,' so it's a shame that the editor(s) of the liner notes simply copied and pasted the BWPS lyric. 

Same goes for "Out in the FARMYARD, the cook is chopping lumber."  Sure, in BWPS, the word is 'barnyard,' but this ain't BWPS.   Sad

I'm preeety sure its agriculture, as there seems to be a heavy emphasis on the A and the G, which couldn'y be anything else. But was he just being lazy with his words for 'clean air' as I can't hear a c.
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« Reply #9239 on: November 15, 2011, 12:27:10 AM »

The momentary gaps between Great Shape and Barnyard, then Barnyard and My Only Sunshine really grate – it's like someone burned the discs in iTunes and thought there ought to be a brief pause between songs, not realising they were meant for smooth transitions.  I hope this gets fixed.

There is a slight pause between "Shape" and "Barnyard" (although not much of one), but there is no pause between "Barnyard" and "Sunshine" - it has the same seamless blend as BWPS. You are referring to the CD versions, right? My discs don't have this problem.

Yeah - almost sounds like you've ripped this to a cd without setting the preferences to 'no gaps' in Itunes. There certainly shouldn't be a gap between Barnyard/OMP - it's one of my favourite transitions of the disc 1 sequence.

I suspect you might be right – though I can't for the life of me find the setting in preferences for getting rid of that import option.  At the moment I'm getting the same gaps in both the ripped-from-CD versions and the iTunes download, which is even more annoying now I find that it's something I could undo easily!

Any suggestions gratefully accepted!


Sorry John - In a bit of a rush, but: If you're on a mac try Itunes > Preferences. Under the General tab, there is an Import Settings button at the bottom that might have the settings you need (although can't find gap options on mine). Alternatively, try the Playback tab, and check your crossfade settings aren't messed up (should be on 0). Otherwise I don't know but it sounds like a setting in Itunes causing the problem.
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« Reply #9240 on: November 15, 2011, 01:32:37 AM »

"I'm In Great Shape" -- I'm leaning toward Brian singing "open country", rather than "agriculture".  I'm hearing a "P" sound instead a "G", and I'm hearing an "eeee" sound for country, instead of an "er" or "ure" sound for agriculture.  And if anyone remembers, David Oppenheim wrote "open country" in the notes he took for the "Inside Pop" special.

Yeah, Brian is clearly NOT singing the word 'agriculture,' so it's a shame that the editor(s) of the liner notes simply copied and pasted the BWPS lyric.  

Same goes for "Out in the FARMYARD, the cook is chopping lumber."  Sure, in BWPS, the word is 'barnyard,' but this ain't BWPS.   Sad

I'm preeety sure its agriculture, as there seems to be a heavy emphasis on the A and the G, which couldn'y be anything else. But was he just being lazy with his words for 'clean air' as I can't hear a c.

I'm pretty sure that you need the services of a good audiologist.

I don't mean to be flippant, but turn up the volume and listen again.  The first part is garbled (and that's why there's a debate whether it's 'open' or 'upper') but the word 'country' is very clear.     'Agriculture' is a BWPS addition.  Not that there's anything wrong with that...
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« Reply #9241 on: November 15, 2011, 02:37:18 AM »

Sorry John - In a bit of a rush, but: If you're on a mac try Itunes > Preferences. Under the General tab, there is an Import Settings button at the bottom that might have the settings you need (although can't find gap options on mine). Alternatively, try the Playback tab, and check your crossfade settings aren't messed up (should be on 0). Otherwise I don't know but it sounds like a setting in Itunes causing the problem.

Many thanks Buddhahat, I had a good rummage last night and went through those hoops but to no avail. Haven't burned a CD from the rip yet so don't know if it's something that will crossover to a fresh CD.

Have solved the gap problem though, by "Joining" the three tracks – they all now play seamlessly together and sounds wonderful. 

The "Join" function (in the "Advanced" menu) appears to be something that must be done while the CD's in the drive, before you import the tracks on to the Mac.

I can see this function possibly being of some potential use to "roll your owners", once they've decided on their tracklisting.
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« Reply #9242 on: November 15, 2011, 02:42:12 AM »

"I'm In Great Shape" -- I'm leaning toward Brian singing "open country", rather than "agriculture".  I'm hearing a "P" sound instead a "G", and I'm hearing an "eeee" sound for country, instead of an "er" or "ure" sound for agriculture.  And if anyone remembers, David Oppenheim wrote "open country" in the notes he took for the "Inside Pop" special.

Yeah, Brian is clearly NOT singing the word 'agriculture,' so it's a shame that the editor(s) of the liner notes simply copied and pasted the BWPS lyric.  

Same goes for "Out in the FARMYARD, the cook is chopping lumber."  Sure, in BWPS, the word is 'barnyard,' but this ain't BWPS.   Sad

I'm preeety sure its agriculture, as there seems to be a heavy emphasis on the A and the G, which couldn'y be anything else. But was he just being lazy with his words for 'clean air' as I can't hear a c.

I'm pretty sure that you need the services of a good audiologist.

I don't mean to be flippant, but turn up the volume and listen again.  The first part is garbled (and that's why there's a debate whether it's 'open' or 'upper') but the word 'country' is very clear.     'Agriculture' is a BWPS addition.  Not that there's anything wrong with that...

You do realise that the BWPS lyrics are now the copyrighted lyrics for those songs? They have to reproduce them like that, regardless.
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« Reply #9243 on: November 15, 2011, 06:17:07 AM »

But there does seem to be some kind of CD or original tape glitch just before the 2 minute mark of track 19 on CD-2, which I don't think is my disc player.  It's "H&V Prelude to Fade", and there's a slide whistle and strings going on, and then the slide whistle quickly repeats with a short drop-out of the strings.  Is this what was on the original tape, or is it some kind of digital mistake?

This one is indeed a problem with the original tapes I believe, although the drop-out was corrected when this section was included in "Heroes & Villains (Sections)"...or maybe a different take was used.

By the way, I've now come around to believing that Brian does sing "open country" on the "Great Shape" demo. I also have no doubt that Van Dyke chose to improve that line instead of simply maintaining the original for posterity.
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« Reply #9244 on: November 15, 2011, 06:22:59 AM »

Great review Dan, your detailed commentary prompted me to go back and re-listen. Great stuff!

Congrats on your shout-out in the Smile booklet, well earned!
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« Reply #9245 on: November 15, 2011, 09:43:59 AM »

"I'm In Great Shape" -- I'm leaning toward Brian singing "open country", rather than "agriculture".  I'm hearing a "P" sound instead a "G", and I'm hearing an "eeee" sound for country, instead of an "er" or "ure" sound for agriculture.  And if anyone remembers, David Oppenheim wrote "open country" in the notes he took for the "Inside Pop" special.

Yeah, Brian is clearly NOT singing the word 'agriculture,' so it's a shame that the editor(s) of the liner notes simply copied and pasted the BWPS lyric.  

Same goes for "Out in the FARMYARD, the cook is chopping lumber."  Sure, in BWPS, the word is 'barnyard,' but this ain't BWPS.   Sad

I'm preeety sure its agriculture, as there seems to be a heavy emphasis on the A and the G, which couldn'y be anything else. But was he just being lazy with his words for 'clean air' as I can't hear a c.

I'm pretty sure that you need the services of a good audiologist.

I don't mean to be flippant, but turn up the volume and listen again.  The first part is garbled (and that's why there's a debate whether it's 'open' or 'upper') but the word 'country' is very clear.     'Agriculture' is a BWPS addition.  Not that there's anything wrong with that...

I really can't hear it, but I thought it was agriculture BEFORE I heard BWPS
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« Reply #9246 on: November 15, 2011, 11:55:15 AM »

You do realise that the BWPS lyrics are now the copyrighted lyrics for those songs? They have to reproduce them like that, regardless.

That's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure that it holds up under scrutiny.  A lot of the Smile songs have lyrical variations.  I don't have the book in front of me at the moment.  Do the printed lyrics generally conform to those of the first published version (e.g., on Smiley Smile, the '93 box, BWPS, etc.)?  

Take 'Wonderful,' for example.  The 'Smiley Smile' version was the first to be published.  Even ignoring the 'hey baba ruba' section, the ending lyrics differ from both the BWPS version and the Smile version.

SMILEY SMILE:
"...Never known as a non-believer, she'll SMILE and thank God for won-won-wonderful"

BWPS:
"...JUST AWAY from HER non-believer, she'll SIGH and thank God for won-won-wonderful"

SMILE:
"...Just away from THE non-believer, she'll sigh and thank God for won-won-wonderful"
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 11:56:11 AM by juggler » Logged
runnersdialzero
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« Reply #9247 on: November 15, 2011, 12:04:47 PM »

A wah wah ho wah
A wah wah ho wah

Wah wah ho wah
A wah wah

A wah wah ho wah
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Wah wah ho wah
A wah wah

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A wah wah

A wah wah ho wah
A wah wah ho wah

Wah wah ho wah
A wah wah
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« Reply #9248 on: November 15, 2011, 01:37:57 PM »

You forgot:

be dooby doo
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« Reply #9249 on: November 15, 2011, 02:29:33 PM »

You do realise that the BWPS lyrics are now the copyrighted lyrics for those songs? They have to reproduce them like that, regardless.

That's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure that it holds up under scrutiny.  A lot of the Smile songs have lyrical variations.  I don't have the book in front of me at the moment.  Do the printed lyrics generally conform to those of the first published version (e.g., on Smiley Smile, the '93 box, BWPS, etc.)?  

Take 'Wonderful,' for example.  The 'Smiley Smile' version was the first to be published.  Even ignoring the 'hey baba ruba' section, the ending lyrics differ from both the BWPS version and the Smile version.

SMILEY SMILE:
"...Never known as a non-believer, she'll SMILE and thank God for won-won-wonderful"

BWPS:
"...JUST AWAY from HER non-believer, she'll SIGH and thank God for won-won-wonderful"

SMILE:
"...Just away from THE non-believer, she'll sigh and thank God for won-won-wonderful"

I've always heard this lyric as:

"she'll SMILE and thank God for one, one, one, wonderful"

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