SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Mikie]

I have a question for you guys. Seems like most of the Smile-o-Philes have gone home after the new SMiLE release.

What's the general consenus of the new Smile release? I don't have time to read all of the board and I just wonder what the experts think. Do you think it was somewhat of a "fan mix" by Linett? Are there things missing or edited in the wrong places or were there edits not so great or could have been done better? Or is this new release considered an excellent job without many detractors. I saw one post where the guy listed a whole bunch of stuff that was on boots that he thought should have made the release. I know everyone has their preferences and you KNEW everyone wasn't going to be happy, but are there a lot of unhappy people or are there more happy than not? If nothing else, the sound quality of the tracks is superb.

[SMiLE Brian]

I'm happy to see prices going down. Maybe it will encourage more people to buy it over the holidays?

Can't wait to open my box on Dec. 25.....

Sure that it doesn't contain merely some tiny confetti cannon? 

Hope not....

[Roger Ryan]

Well, "monicker" is displeased with some of the engineering/mixing/editing choices on Disc 1 and some folks agree with him. I hear these issues as well, but am not troubled by them very much (some of it simply comes down to the quality of the existing session tapes). Almost everyone seems to dislike the manipulation of "whispering winds" on the outro to "Holidays; a few have taken issue with some of the other fly-ins. I would have preferred a more elegant approach to the "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard" fly-ins (along with the "whispering winds" part), but find everything else to be very appealing.

I think the re-arrangement of all of the songs themselves (especially "Vega-Tables") is fantastic; only "The Child Is Father Of The Man" seems a bit off to me (don't care for the moody piano part placed near the beginning). The sequencing now seems perfect to me (with "I'm In Great Shape" leading into "Barnyard" followed by the two-part "My Only Sunshine"). "Heroes & Villains Part 2" strikes me as just right. I have no complaint whatsoever with how the session discs are presented - just the right amount of material representing each session. I especially like the rough "Heroes & Villains" mixes and the "Good Vibrations" master sessions assembly which are very enjoyable to listen to as their own tracks.

The packaging is the best I have ever seen and goes way beyond what I expected to see.

[Mikie]

Excellent detailed synopsis, Roger.  Agree with you on the great accompanying documentation, especially in the box set.

Who agrees with Roger?  Anybody else with their own feel for the CD/vinyl tracks? Did the new Smile '67 blow you away, or being picky, do you think it was slowed down a little bit? 

[Tristero]

I think Roger's done a good job of summing up the general consensus on this.  More casual enthusiasts have generally been quite favorable while some diehards have been more critical:  The fly-ins have been a source of controversy (most notably in Look, Holidays and Dada), while others object to the use of the BWPS template (as opposed to the traditional back cover 12 track listing).  I think that the 'approximation' piece was bound to be controversial, but I've heard less complaints about the raw sessions (the Dada/CCW material and the Wonderful takes were particular highlights).  

I also concur with RR about the new assemblages, particularly V-T and that great rough version of H&V that they tucked away at the end of disc 4.  The new Child edit felt choppy to me as well.  I thought the '67 Surf's Up was interesting, but it certainly didn't supplant the original.  Most folks love the vocal montage, myself included.

So on the whole, given the level of expectation here, I think the new set has fared pretty well, though some longtime fans have dissented.

[UK_Surf]

Good analysis & summary so far, I agree with Roger & Tristero.

To add a few tidbits: there was a hoo-ha about the absence of backing vocals on the instrumental/animal noise-only BY, but that's been explained on Linnet & Boyd's Icon Fetch internet radio interview. Apparently it bears more relation to a recently-discovered acetate mix, so that's why they decided on that mix (rather than the one with vocals which showed up on the review stream). An odd decision to all but a producer, but at least one that's based on a plausible rationale.

Just to say a bit more about the sessions discs. I don't think enough has been said about just how incredible it is to hear everything in a basically-linear, song-by-song survey of almost every key session you'd want to have, all in (generally) excellent audio quality.  It's brought a level of cohesion to the Smile experience that I never thought even remotely possible. C-man deserves major credit for the sessionography. The art and photography are outta this world (strange omission = no input from VDP - apparently for a good, though at present, unknown-to-all-but-hallowed-insiders reasons).

Also, the vinyl experience is amazing. Side 4 is almost like a snap-shot of the whole set - it's probably my single most treasured piece of the whole package (apart from 67 SU and CIFOTM in good quality). The stereo mixes of Veggies & WC are mind-blowing.

So, yeah, there are going to be quibbles (mine are basically the same as those already listed, and I'd add that I still prefer the Annie Wallace fan mix of SU - good thing the '67 version is so sublime). But as a set, it's an incredible experience.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I would like to have heard some of the instrumental overdubs isolated, such as the flutes on the Holidays verses.

I know it was a space issue though, but I could have lost one of the sessions for those flutes.

[Mikie]

Good analysis & summary so far, I agree with Roger & Tristero.

And I'd add UK Surf.

I was a little disappointed that they didn't include the "Truck Drivin' Man" section isolated. I know it was added in '68, but still, they could have explained why they included it in the book. At least they included the "Three Score and Five" lyrics to Heroes, but that was on the 2-fer previously and was pretty much a no-brainer.....

[earcandy]

Of course there is the album that came between Smile and Wild Honey...the Holy Grail of Beach Boys-dom: Remember The Zen?

Slated to appear as Capitol DT 2581, the album was withdrawn because of Mike Love's veto.



It was to be Brian's "Teenage Zen-phony To God"...

[Roger Ryan]

...I was a little disappointed that they didn't include the "Truck Drivin' Man" section isolated. I know it was added in '68, but still, they could have explained why they included it in the book...

I'm pretty sure the "Truck Driving Man" vocal only exists on the '68 "Cabinessence" master (like Carl's lead) and can only be electronically isolated, something the set producers probably didn't think was acceptable even as a hidden track.

[Mikie]

I'm pretty sure the "Truck Driving Man" vocal only exists on the '68 "Cabinessence" master (like Carl's lead) and can only be electronically isolated

Well, somebody (fan?) isolated it already and did a great job! That's why I don't see why Linett couldn't have done it.

But they probably didn't want to go to the '68 masters - it would almost be sacrilege and not true to the '66/'67 recordings.

[drbeachboy]

My only complaints are with Disc 1. I still don't understand that if they stuck that closely with BWPS, then why did they change Look and Child...? Movement 2 of BWPS is the most satisfying piece of music that I have ever heard. The 4 songs just fit together seamlessly. Has Mark or Alan ever explained why this was done?

[hypehat]

From what I understand, BWPS was used as a template only where existing evidence wouldn't step in - Moving Great Shape, for instance, reinstating the Barnshine fade.

Also, some of the reasons that piece of music fits together so seamlessly is that they've changed it in 2004! The end of Look, Child, and Wonderful would have had to have altered either with quick edits, or pitch-shifting.

[Aegir]

My only musical problem with the finished album is the whispering winds vocals, I got used to all the other fly-ins pretty quickly. and I guess there is this lingering uncomfortableness in the back of my mind that all those tracks would've never fit on a single LP in 66/67.

[tansen]

I think the 'whispering winds' vocals on Holidays are AWESOME!

[Tristero]

My only complaints are with Disc 1. I still don't understand that if they stuck that closely with BWPS, then why did they change Look and Child...? Movement 2 of BWPS is the most satisfying piece of music that I have ever heard. The 4 songs just fit together seamlessly. Has Mark or Alan ever explained why this was done?

Of course, they did take some liberties with the BWPS format, most notably with the 'Barnyard Suite' (to good effect, IMO--so glad they got Barnshine back in there!).  Vega-Tables was also significantly different from BWPS and all the better for it.  I don't think there was any way that they were going to be able to replicate the beauty and flow of the second movement of BWPS, given how unfinished Look and Child remain from the original sessions.  Interestingly, that was my favorite part of BWPS and my least favorite piece of the approximation, while the third movement was my least favorite before and now I like it best on disc 1.

[drbeachboy]

My only complaints are with Disc 1. I still don't understand that if they stuck that closely with BWPS, then why did they change Look and Child...? Movement 2 of BWPS is the most satisfying piece of music that I have ever heard. The 4 songs just fit together seamlessly. Has Mark or Alan ever explained why this was done?

Of course, they did take some liberties with the BWPS format, most notably with the 'Barnyard Suite' (to good effect, IMO--so glad they got Barnshine back in there!).  Vega-Tables was also significantly different from BWPS and all the better for it.  I don't think there was any way that they were going to be able to replicate the beauty and flow of the second movement of BWPS, given how unfinished Look and Child remain from the original sessions.  Interestingly, that was my favorite part of BWPS and my least favorite piece of the approximation, while the third movement was my least favorite before and now I like it best on disc 1.

I agree, I love side 3 of TSS. Much better than BWPS. Been listening to JMZ's stereo Smile and he nailed Movement 2. It's amazing that now TSS is released, I wind up listening to the fan mixes created near or since it's release.

[Tristero]

I agree, I love side 3 of TSS. Much better than BWPS. Been listening to JMZ's stereo Smile and he nailed Movement 2. It's amazing that now TSS is released, I wind up listening to the fan mixes created near or since it's release.

I still haven't heard the much lauded JMZ mix.  I guess I'm waiting to hear more of the new fan mixes that emerge in the wake of this new set.  We've already gotten some good stuff and I'm sure there's more in the pipeline.

And yes, I'm one of the few who prefers the fly-in on Holidays to some of the others like Look and Dada.  Maybe I like the idea more than the execution there, but still, I think it was more effective than those distracting "Child" bits on Look.

[Mikie]

I think it was more effective than those distracting "Child" bits on Look.

I don't care for that at all. I thought it was really unnecessary.

[Bill Tobelman]

Andrew G. Doe said:

"A mind-blowing unified concept album"

Unified ? It's all over the place - American history, nature/elements, humour, human life. It's also not unified in the most important regard: never finished.

Everything I listed in the list you are trying to discount via this argument has to do with the spiritual experience. It can all be related to the spiritual experience. The only claim to SMiLE that Brian ever made back in the day was that it was spiritual...that was the entire focus of the direction.

I have to point out a tendency of yours at this point Andrew. When you explain other people's thought processes & actions you tend to side with the simple. You default to the dumb. You think other people naturally think in a simplistic way.

Try it the other way around for a change.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I have to point out a tendency of yours at this point Andrew. When you explain other people's thought processes & actions you tend to side with the simple. You default to the dumb. You think other people naturally think in a simplistic way.

That's because I am dumb - you told me so and by crackey, it's true. Life has become soooooooooooooooooooooo much easier, better, less taxing, since I realised that any advanced thought, appreciation and criticism I attempted in the past 40-odd years was doomed to fail because of my innate stupidity. I cannot thank you enough.

[Dunderhead]

I have to point out a tendency of yours at this point Andrew. When you explain other people's thought processes & actions you tend to side with the simple. You default to the dumb. You think other people naturally think in a simplistic way.

That's because I am dumb - you told me so and by crackey, it's true. Life has become soooooooooooooooooooooo much easier, better, less taxing, since I realised that any advanced thought, appreciation and criticism I attempted in the past 40-odd years was doomed to fail because of my innate stupidity. I cannot thank you enough.

So if you don't like it when it's done to you, why do you do it to brian wilson

[18thofMay]

I have to point out a tendency of yours at this point Andrew. When you explain other people's thought processes & actions you tend to side with the simple. You default to the dumb. You think other people naturally think in a simplistic way.

That's because I am dumb - you told me so and by crackey, it's true. Life has become soooooooooooooooooooooo much easier, better, less taxing, since I realised that any advanced thought, appreciation and criticism I attempted in the past 40-odd years was doomed to fail because of my innate stupidity. I cannot thank you enough.

So if you don't like it when it's done to you, why do you do it to brian wilson

Do we really have to go down this path again?

[anazgnos]

Is there some universally agreed-upon definition of what a "spiritual experience" is?  When people talk about music in "spiritual" terms, I gather that they tend to be talking more about emotional experiences rather than mystical or esoteric ones.  I'm guessing out of any number of people who'd say they found music "spiritual" you'd find very few who claimed to have actually seen god.

Brian saying the album was supposed to be a "spiritual experience" is like him saying it would contribute to world peace, or something - a nice enough thought, but also toothless and benign.  It's entirely too vague a sentiment from which to derive any kind of ironclad intent.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I have to point out a tendency of yours at this point Andrew. When you explain other people's thought processes & actions you tend to side with the simple. You default to the dumb. You think other people naturally think in a simplistic way.

That's because I am dumb - you told me so and by crackey, it's true. Life has become soooooooooooooooooooooo much easier, better, less taxing, since I realised that any advanced thought, appreciation and criticism I attempted in the past 40-odd years was doomed to fail because of my innate stupidity. I cannot thank you enough.

So if you don't like it when it's done to you, why do you do it to brian wilson

The omission of any winking/grinning smileys was deliberate. Bill amuses me, endlessly, as only a bigot can.  As for Brian... sorry, don't see the point or the relevance.