SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Andrew G. Doe]

I mean the whole debate got started trying to figure out how LSD fit into the scheme of SMiLE. That couldn't be anymore "on topic".
I really think Brian's interest in psychedelic culture and philosophy is the missing link of SMiLE.

Brian's interest in anything except music during the Smile era was exactly as it was for his other non-musical interests - fleeting, maybe days, maybe weeks, sometimes months. About the only such interest/discipline I know of that he's maintained an extended interest in is astrology.

[letsmakeit31]

two things:

1. As I think neither of you will give in, can we agree on disagreeing? This starts looking like the Belgium parliament negotiations...

2. Can we PLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEEEEE get back on topic (as in: the SMiLE box set)?

Party Pooper! 

yeah, I know, moderators can be annoying...

There has to be a moment soon when you will say STOP unless......
We all get some info on this Box set very very soon we'er all stir crazy now
But saying that I do agree with AGD and these of us who say drugs were the worse thing for Brian, as I've stated a few pages back. & no I'm not an inside or a friend of Brian's just someone who loves and cares about a fellow human being

[Dunderhead]

I mean the whole debate got started trying to figure out how LSD fit into the scheme of SMiLE. That couldn't be anymore "on topic".
I really think Brian's interest in psychedelic culture and philosophy is the missing link of SMiLE.

Brian's interest in anything except music during the Smile era was exactly as it was for his other non-musical interests - fleeting, maybe days, maybe weeks, sometimes months. About the only such interest/discipline I know of that he's maintained an extended interest in is astrology.

So? Did Brian need to earn a PHD in a subject in order for it to influence him? Lets say he was interested in something for only a month, in the scheme of the smile sessions a month is a pretty long time. So much of the recording happened in only four months between September and December, so a month long "fleeting interest" might have preoccupied Brian for the course of a dozen sessions and work on 6 different songs. A month long interest might be really significant.
You do not have to be an expert on something to be influenced by it, and you don't have to devote your whole life to its constant study in order to take anything away. Brian lived a pretty vigorous lifestyle, intellectually, at that time. He tried out many different things and jumped around between different interests, but that doesn't mean when he finished one book that he stopped being influenced by it when he picked up another book on another topic he was interested in. You can't discount these things because they were "fleeting". I just think Brian was hungry, hungry for answers and understanding. He wanted to piece everything together, but there was just so much going on that Brian was like a kid in a candy store. You seem to be trying to say that Brian was not truly interested in these things, that they were just fads that exerted little influence over him, but I think that's exactly the wrong way to look at it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I mean the whole debate got started trying to figure out how LSD fit into the scheme of SMiLE. That couldn't be anymore "on topic".
I really think Brian's interest in psychedelic culture and philosophy is the missing link of SMiLE.

Brian's interest in anything except music during the Smile era was exactly as it was for his other non-musical interests - fleeting, maybe days, maybe weeks, sometimes months. About the only such interest/discipline I know of that he's maintained an extended interest in is astrology.

So? Did Brian need to earn a PHD in a subject in order for it to influence him? Lets say he was interested in something for only a month, in the scheme of the smile sessions a month is a pretty long time. So much of the recording happened in only four months between September and December, so a month long "fleeting interest" might have preoccupied Brian for the course of a dozen sessions and work on 6 different songs. A month long interest might be really significant.
You do not have to be an expert on something to be influenced by it, and you don't have to devote your whole life to its constant study in order to take anything away. Brian lived a pretty vigorous lifestyle, intellectually, at that time. He tried out many different things and jumped around between different interests, but that doesn't mean when he finished one book that he stopped being influenced by it when he picked up another book on another topic he was interested in. You can't discount these things because they were "fleeting". I just think Brian was hungry, hungry for answers and understanding. He wanted to piece everything together, but there was just so much going on that Brian was like a kid in a candy store. You seem to be trying to say that Brian was not truly interested in these things, that they were just fads that exerted little influence over him, but I think that's exactly the wrong way to look at it.

You just keep thinking, Butch, that's what you're good at ... 

[Dunderhead]

I mean, I'm interested in the beach boys, and there are some weeks where I'm not interested in listening to anything else. Other weeks though, I might have no desire to listen to the stuff. Does that mean that I'm not really interested in the bb?
I don't think your conception of Brian's interests has logical merit. There's no reason to believe Brian wasn't influenced by these things simply because he shifted gears a lot. Brian could have read a book, put it down, and you know digested it. When it comes to his interests in philosophy, drugs, and new age spirituality, I think there was a lot of overlap. Brian might have read something that led him to something else. His interests grew and developed in an organic way.

When you move on to something else, I just don't think that means that you abandon everything that came before.

[Bill Tobelman]

Another bit from The Act Of Creation:

"'Everything has two aspects,' wrote Chiricho, 'the current aspect, which we see nearly always and which ordinary men see, and the ghostly and metaphysical aspect, which only rare individuals may see in moments of clairvoyance and metaphysical abstraction. A work of art must narrate something that does not appear within its outline.'"

[Mikie]

Has this thread run it's course yet?  Or is there still more sludge to dredge up?

Ohoh oh, a fantasy world, and Smiley Smile posters, I'm coming back......

[Sam_BFC]

Don't know if this may be of any relevance to the discussion (:

For Pet Sounds, it was LSD," nods Wilson, as we begin to revisit the rawest nerves at the heart of the album's genisis..."That's definitely what led to California Girls, Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds.  That's the stuff it influenced the most."

"You would've written those songs anyway," counters Al Jardine, weary of such a candid confession.

"No," continues Brian.  "LSD definitely helped me out a little bit.  It helped me keep on top of that particular music."

[Dunderhead]

Don't know if this may be of any relevance to the discussion (:

For Pet Sounds, it was LSD," nods Wilson, as we begin to revisit the rawest nerves at the heart of the album's genisis..."That's definitely what led to California Girls, Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds.  That's the stuff it influenced the most."

"You would've written those songs anyway," counters Al Jardine, weary of such a candid confession.

"No," continues Brian.  "LSD definitely helped me out a little bit.  It helped me keep on top of that particular music."

 

[SloopJohnB]

About the only such interest/discipline I know of that he's maintained an extended interest in is astrology.

I didn't know that! Is he still interested in astrology nowadays? 

[Andrew G. Doe]

About the only such interest/discipline I know of that he's maintained an extended interest in is astrology.

I didn't know that! Is he still interested in astrology nowadays? 

I believe so.

[Mahalo]

Don't know if this may be of any relevance to the discussion (:

For Pet Sounds, it was LSD," nods Wilson, as we begin to revisit the rawest nerves at the heart of the album's genisis..."That's definitely what led to California Girls, Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds.  That's the stuff it influenced the most."

"You would've written those songs anyway," counters Al Jardine, weary of such a candid confession.

"No," continues Brian.  "LSD definitely helped me out a little bit.  It helped me keep on top of that particular music."

 

How is it that you hold so much faith in that quote but not the one where he says how much LSD messed up his brain?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

^ This

[18thofMay]

Did I miss something?

[Jim V.]

I feel horrible for the psychic pain Brian has had to deal with but even though we didn't get a lot of material during his really bad years, a lot of it was his best. If he was at tip-top shape do you still think we'd have gotten "This Whole World", "'Til I Die", "A Day In The Life of a Tree", "Sail On Sailor", or "Good Timin'"? Or "Love And Mercy"?

Where I stand on this is that in no way am I happy his life went the way it did, but I am very happy that he turned his hurt into such beauty that helps so many people.

[Dunderhead]

I feel horrible for the psychic pain Brian has had to deal with but even though we didn't get a lot of material during his really bad years, a lot of it was his best. If he was at tip-top shape do you still think we'd have gotten "This Whole World", "'Til I Die", "A Day In The Life of a Tree", "Sail On Sailor", or "Good Timin'"? Or "Love And Mercy"?

Where I stand on this is that in no way am I happy his life went the way it did, but I am very happy that he turned his hurt into such beauty that helps so many people.

Exactly. I'm not a sadist, I don't get off on other people experiencing pain. But we can't change the past, so the best thing we can do is not let that pain go to waste. The music Brian did came out of his pain, and by listening to it and connecting with it you're giving some meaning to everything Brian went through.

[homeontherange]

Don't know if this may be of any relevance to the discussion (:

For Pet Sounds, it was LSD," nods Wilson, as we begin to revisit the rawest nerves at the heart of the album's genisis..."That's definitely what led to California Girls, Good Vibrations and Pet Sounds.  That's the stuff it influenced the most."

"You would've written those songs anyway," counters Al Jardine, weary of such a candid confession.

"No," continues Brian.  "LSD definitely helped me out a little bit.  It helped me keep on top of that particular music."

 

How is it that you hold so much faith in that quote but not the one where he says how much LSD messed up his brain?

Both quotes are realistic. LSD can mess up your brain and dig out your deepest creativity at the same time. However, I still think cannabis + uppers are what truly messed him up.

[18thofMay]

Can we merge this with the Bin Laden thread?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Exactly. I'm not a sadist, I don't get off on other people experiencing pain.

But it makes you happy, and you wouldn't change it.

And this really is my last word regarding this matter. No matter what Flash Harry says now, or how frantically he backpedals, fact remains, he's said that he's happy with how Brian's life arced, and that life includes decades of mental pain. He's right, of course, that he's not sadistic as means to inflict pain on others for the purpose of personal gratification, but to derive pleasure from someone's unhappiness, and then trot out the threadbare "genuis is pain/the end justifies the means" line is schadenfreude of a very high degree.

[Dunderhead]

Exactly. I'm not a sadist, I don't get off on other people experiencing pain.

But it makes you happy, and you wouldn't change it.

And this really is my last word regarding this matter. No matter what Flash Harry says now, or how frantically he backpedals, fact remains, he's said that he's happy with how Brian's life arced, and that life includes decades of mental pain. He's right, of course, that he's not sadistic as means to inflict pain on others for the purpose of personal gratification, but to derive pleasure from someone's unhappiness, and then trot out the threadbare "genuis is pain/the end justifies the means" line is schadenfreude of a very high degree.

hahahaha, who the f uck is Flash Harry?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Harry_%28St_Trinian%27s%29
Sorry Andrew, I'm not 100 years old.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Can we merge this with the Bin Laden thread?

Well, Brian was smoking Afghan kush, so....

[Mike's Beard]

Where I stand on this is that in no way am I happy his life went the way it did, but I am very happy that he turned his hurt into such beauty that helps so many people.

If only Flash Harr..... sorry, Fishmonk had typed words to this effect about 5 pages back he'd have saved himself lots of grief.

[Dunderhead]

Where I stand on this is that in no way am I happy his life went the way it did, but I am very happy that he turned his hurt into such beauty that helps so many people.

If only Flash Harr..... sorry, Fishmonk had typed words to this effect about 5 pages back he'd have saved himself lots of grief.

I did. It just goes to show you that if you type something more than a couple of lines theres not a good chance it will be read and there's an even lower chance it will be understood.
Many of you have already made up your mind about me, and you'll purposely interpret my posts for your own ends. Brian Wilson is my hero, I have no greater respect for anyone, and its kind of sad to be characterized as a bad fan when really my only interest is in putting things in their proper place. I don't wish to glorify drugs, justify my own drugs use (seriously, I've never even commented once as to my own experience with drugs...), or to give them overriding predominance above other aspects of Brian's life. I believe Brian's issues were tied up in a complex of issues that fed into eachother and interacted in such a way that I don't think anyone here (this includes me, so don't try and twist this) truly understands. I believe that the sentiment of many posters here is admirable, and you only wish Brian the best, but I believe some of what's being said is naive. If you're hurt that I characterized you as naive, don't be, as I don't believe naivety is a necessarily bad quality, it's simply my characterization as informed by my own philosophic beliefs, which many of you may not share, but are nonetheless equally valid.
I believe that when you look at any one thing individually you can easily dismiss it as an influence. But when you look at all of Brian's interests, the scene that he was part of, the language he used, along with comments that he made, a pattern begins to emerge. One can easily discern an underlying link between these things, you can start to understand how Brian fit these things together. I simply believe this all deserves its proper place in any interpretation of SMiLE.

[Mike's Beard]

My point was, having clarified your point of view much better since, your initial statement, due to very poorly thought out phrasing, resulted in the iron clad clanger that was "I'm happy Brian's life turned out the way it did and I wouldn't change it". Shall we all move on now? 

[tansen]

My point was, having clarified your point of view much better since, your initial statement, due to very poorly thought out phrasing, resulted in the iron clad clanger that was "I'm happy Brian's life turned out the way it did and I wouldn't change it". Shall we all move on now? 

+1

Yeah, I don't get the whole witch hunt for Fishmonk here, he has over and over again tried to explain that he in fact isn't happy Brian suffered, but people seem to skip those posts and quote his initial one. What you say Andrew? Can you let it go?