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683709 Posts in 27787 Topics by 4100 Members - Latest Member: bunny505 September 15, 2025, 01:52:04 AM
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Author Topic: The Handwritten Smile Song Titles Note  (Read 20884 times)
Bicyclerider
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« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2009, 09:06:33 AM »

Mr Doe... I know that you've quite deliberately not said in your post above which song it was that was going to have the internal crossfade, so by asking 'which one?', I'm probably going somewhere you don't wish to go. But...


MattB

"The Elements".

This was a theoretical crossfade, or someone knows that one element would be crossfaded into another?  Which to which?
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« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2009, 09:27:14 AM »

For all those pointing out lyrical differences, he also sings, "I've been taken as lost and gone" on the Humble Harv recording. Not quite as important as the others pointed out, but it is worth mentioning as the lyric later changed, just as "agriculture" could have been later on.

What is the Humble Harv recording?  Is this an acetate or tape that Brian and friends took to radio station KHJ to give them a world exclusive premiere of Heroes and Villains?  I've always wondered if it was Humble Harv (aka Harvey Miller), Tom Maule, or another KHJ jock who told Brian, "Sorry, it's not on the playlist, so I can't play it!" before contacting his boss who told him, "Put it on the air, you idiot!"




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« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2009, 09:28:58 AM »

Wasn't it  I'm In Great Shape that originally had that fuzzy feedback build-up, which on BWPS bled into I Wanna Be Around?  (Going from memory as I don't have my CDs to hand...).. Would that count as a kind of cross-fade?
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2009, 08:14:19 AM »

For all those pointing out lyrical differences, he also sings, "I've been taken as lost and gone" on the Humble Harv recording. Not quite as important as the others pointed out, but it is worth mentioning as the lyric later changed, just as "agriculture" could have been later on.

What is the Humble Harv recording?  Is this an acetate or tape that Brian and friends took to radio station KHJ to give them a world exclusive premiere of Heroes and Villains?  I've always wondered if it was Humble Harv (aka Harvey Miller), Tom Maule, or another KHJ jock who told Brian, "Sorry, it's not on the playlist, so I can't play it!" before contacting his boss who told him, "Put it on the air, you idiot!"






The humble Harv recording is the Heroes piano demo that was released in edited form on Endless Harmony - it was the first time that "I'm in Great Shape" came to light as part of Heroes, at least at that time (November 66).
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« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2009, 11:07:12 PM »

For all those pointing out lyrical differences, he also sings, "I've been taken as lost and gone" on the Humble Harv recording. Not quite as important as the others pointed out, but it is worth mentioning as the lyric later changed, just as "agriculture" could have been later on.

What is the Humble Harv recording?  Is this an acetate or tape that Brian and friends took to radio station KHJ to give them a world exclusive premiere of Heroes and Villains?  I've always wondered if it was Humble Harv (aka Harvey Miller), Tom Maule, or another KHJ jock who told Brian, "Sorry, it's not on the playlist, so I can't play it!" before contacting his boss who told him, "Put it on the air, you idiot!"




The humble Harv recording is the Heroes piano demo that was released in edited form on Endless Harmony - it was the first time that "I'm in Great Shape" came to light as part of Heroes, at least at that time (November 66).


Thanks for the info, Bicyclerider.  Do you have any idea why it's called "The Humble Harv Demo"?
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« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2009, 11:31:10 PM »

'Cause Brian was playing it for LA DJ Harvey' Humble Harv' Miller, who'd dropped in at the session.
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« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2009, 12:16:32 AM »

'Cause Brian was playing it for LA DJ Harvey' Humble Harv' Miller, who'd dropped in at the session.

OK, so it's probably safe to assume that it was not Humble Harv who was on the air when Brian and entourage drove to KHJ radio and delivered Heroes and Villains for an exclusive world premiere, only to have the dj say he couldn't play it because it wasn't on the KHJ playlist. 

AGD, do you or anyone else know who the dj was who was finally told by his boss, when the dj was prodded to call for permission, "Put it on the air, you idiot!"  (For those of you into radio history, I'm assuming the boss would have been KHJ program director Ron Jacobs.)



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« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2009, 03:10:41 AM »

'Cause Brian was playing it for LA DJ Harvey 'Humble Harv' Miller, who'd dropped in at the session.

OK, so it's probably safe to assume that it was not Humble Harv who was on the air when Brian and entourage drove to KHJ radio and delivered Heroes and Villains for an exclusive world premiere, only to have the dj say he couldn't play it because it wasn't on the KHJ playlist. 

AGD, do you or anyone else know who the dj was who was finally told by his boss, when the dj was prodded to call for permission, "Put it on the air, you idiot!"  (For those of you into radio history, I'm assuming the boss would have been KHJ program director Ron Jacobs.)

Y'know, I do believe someone worked out who it had to be - probably Cam Mott, he's good at stuff like that - and it wasn't Harv.
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« Reply #83 on: September 07, 2025, 11:00:30 AM »

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Who wrote the note? If it was Carl, was he just jotting down titles off the top of his head?

I think it was Diane, as Brian's musical secretary. I think it's more likely that Brian would delegate that task to her. But even if it's Carl, same principle applies--one of the two people most connected to the tapes and production either followed Brian's dictation (more likely) or used their best judgement (less likely) to answer Capitol's badgering. Brian DEFINITELY either signed off on it or trusted the person who wrote it to give accurate info on his behalf. Another reason I think it was Diane.

The only pieces not listed on there are He Gives Speeches, Holidays, I Ran and Prayer. HGS was definitely junked, no question. Brian could've revived it easily for BWPS, especially with the Barnshine fade excised. Every other piece got a spotlight, but HGS. Holidays is the Trombone Dixie if anything was. I Ran is a bit more ambiguous but I think it makes sense for the author of the list or even Brian himself to consider it "first on standby" to be dropped, especially after GV took its little melody. Then Prayer, any of the three would know is "intro to the album" or perhaps by then "outro to the album."

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If someone else wrote it, how did they put it together?  I could see some guy at Capitol making the list using Union session sheets or something.
If Brian didn't write the list, why would he let Capitol print of such an in accurate list?  Thinking of how detailed he was in putting together other BBs albums, why would he not care what was printed on the back?  No other original BBs album I have has an inaccurate track listing on the dust jacket (I could be wrong).

I don't think it was inaccurate except MAYBE I Ran would've made the cut after all--and I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't always meant to be a "part 2" to Wonderful the more I think about it. They fit so well, it's the one definitively cited "Brian remembered something" anecdote about the making of BWPS. I know I Ran had a different master number, but I don't think that's necessarily a deal breaker. Beyond that, you could say Dada would've likely been on a '67 album but there's also reason to believe Dada was the first Smiley track and became THAT album's "Trombone Dixie." (Just as CCW would become one of WH's "Trombone Dixies.") 

I do think it's funny how comparatively bland the back cover of SMiLE is compared to the carefully chosen front cover and booklet. The fact that it was a rough draft means it might've been done better justice in a final revision but ultimately the back cover is so unimportant, and he was testing Capitol's patience with the booklet, I could see Brian willing to settle for a high-contrast B&W "meh" photo of the group. I think he was willing to use a photo without him in "penance" for the genius campaign, assuming that was run by him. If it was Capitol's decision, I blame spite (let's leave his image off his own magnum opus to knock the guy down a peg) or sloppiness.

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Did who ever wrote the list know what they were talking about?  Could someone have just wrote down some titles they had heard floating around, not knowing what was a song and what was a modular fragment?  This goes back to the last question about Brian not appearing to care or be in control of the album art planning process.

Yes, there's no doubt in my mind it went through Brian at least tangentially. He probably didn't give it too much thought, but he didn't have to--that's what was in the vaults. And if you're willing to assume "I'm in Great Shape" is "Friday Night aka Workshop" aka the Barnyard Suite [I'm guessing IIGS verse/IWBA/WS/Barnyard in some order] that's the only unknown track and unattested new recording knocking out in a plausible way. They could coincide with Vosse's description of "the barnyard suite" well enough and BWPS did it minus barnyard proper. If it was some dope writing down tape box notes, it's more likely we'd get a "bicycle rider, iron horse, home on the range, prayer" track listed.

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Why are Wind Chimes and Vega-tables listed as separate tracks?  I have heard it was because they might be singles, but that sounds sketchy to me.  (I once tried to ask Frank Holmes about this when I was briefly in contact with him, wondering if he had been specifically told by VDP that Vega-tables was in the Elements, or if he (Holmes) had just kind of made that up for the title.  Alas, never heard back form him.)

Because they were, and this is some of the best evidence aside from the fact their tape boxes, worksheets and studio chatter don't refer to them as elements like Fire does. (Oh and nobody else calling them elements throughout the years except maybe Frank Holmes--where he's getting by-then-outdated info secondhand from Van and we've never seen the lyric sheets he was working off of.) I don't deny there's enough tangential evidence for Veggies that I can entertain the idea it started as one, but it's equally plausible that Van or Holmes was told "there's gonna be an elements track about the natural world and how we need it to be physically fit" and made the connection with Veggies. It's at least as likely barring harder evidence. Wind Chimes has NO air connection but post-hoc bootlegs calling it that out of desperation and ignorance. (Legitimized by BWPS, which Brian and Darian admit was just a lucky coincidence they could use to plug that conceptual hole.)

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Is some part of the list actually in the correct order?  I've always wondered this. Why does Old Master Painter have parenthesis around it, that have been scribbled out?  The parenthesis suggest that for a second it was thought of as a lesser title, and then the writer thought otherwise and scribbled out the brackets. Why did the writer put Do You Like Worms at the top of the list?  Just the first title that came to mind? What does the order of the list tell us about Brian's (or whoever's) concept at the time.  Did Wind Chimes just come to mind second?

I think it's definitely likely. Even if Diane/Carl (or Brian through them) was just rattling off the names they knew as they came, it's likely the mind recalled what was important and memorable first. So, they weren't sitting there trying to hash out a proper sequence yet (hence "see label for correct playing order") but the songs with a clearer plan come to mind first.

I think it's very likely Worms was the original opener when GV was said to be the only single. (A lot of people forget or don't realize that--Brian didn't want another single off the album until he needed one ASAP to launch BRI.) Worms introduces the whole album concept out of the gate, encapsulates the journey and is one of two songs that can most naturally fit with Prayer (the other being GV). So that was the first song they thought of. Wind Chimes was the first song recorded for the SMiLE sessions not counting a very rough H&V demo in May as well as GV. It was probably the first one "finished" conceptually in Brian's head. So that's next when trying to think of songs to write down. H&V and SU are the first ones Brian and VDP wrote together, so they're easy to recall. GV is self-evident--surprised it wasn't "thought of" earlier. CE is almost everybody's favorite SMiLE song, so that came to mind next as the more obvious tracks are depleted.

Then everything in the second column are the less certain, less finished fragmentary pieces. Wonderful, that's an early one they definitely weren't junking so sure. IIGS was probably just recorded if the list was made in December, so it has recency working for it. (The tape for Workshop was in fact labelled "Friday Night (IIGS)"). CIFOTM is another song that came pretty early--alongside CE--and was definitely too beautiful to be cut, so it came to mind next. Then the Elements, also recent but already in flux even then. There may have been some back and forth in Brian's mind if it'd still be included or not. VT is probably connected to the concept, was always meant to go last if it was part of it, (Diane said Fire, Water, Air, Earth) so that's a natural follow-up. OMP was originally part of Heroes according to some primary sources and session notes from the earliest Heroes recording since taped over. It had parentheses for that reason--it was going to be on the record but as part of Heroes or its own thing, was still unsure. Probably Brian was debating, saw there was still a missing slot (I think he had 12 tracks as a "set in stone" thing, to coincide with the zodiac at least superficially) and said "yeah sure, list OMP separately, I'm not including those other junked pieces just to fill out 12 slots." I don't think he planned for all songs to have a zodiac connection necessarily, but I maintain he wanted 12 to evoke that.

I don't think there's any thought whatsoever to the sequence, it's just what the author thought of naturally. The original list isn't in columns, or else I might be willing to consider CE was placed as the closer of the first side intentionally.

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I read someplace (maybe also on Smile Shop) that someone claims they saw a proof of the back cover art that had lots of read pen markings for changes to be made, implying that the actual back cover that Capitol printed 300,000 of had yet another track listing/order on it.  Is it true?  What I wouldn't give to see an original Smile dust jacket.  They couldn't have pulped every last one of them.

It's remarkably clean, the only revisions are the parentheses crossed out next to OMP.

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« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2025, 02:00:07 PM »

I agree with Bicyclerider...in October '66 at least, Brian conceived of Heroes as running in the order he played on the demo.  The juxtaposed sections do seem like they would sound odd together, but I can imagine Brian making it work somehow.  I can actually envision the "tape explosion" in IIGS leading (via a butt-end edit, of course) right into Barnyard, which would then fade and end the song.

Come to think of it, perhaps "false Barnyard" was meant to take the place of the real Barnyard at the conclusion of Heroes?  After deciding to spawn IIGS and Barnyard into their own songs, Brian would have needed an new ending.  Thus, he records a fade very similar to Barnyard (perhaps "in the cantina" was supposed to replace IIGS as well) and places it at the end of his February mix. 

I highly doubt I'm the first person to think of this, but it makes sense to me, assuming we are to take Brian's sequence in the demo as the real sequence at one point in time.

I have thought the same thing.  My mixes always have IIGS going into Barnyard.  It isn't too much of a stretch to see the last two parts of the cantina version of H&V to be some sort of mirror of this earlier version--massive tape feedback going smack into a Ab-Db chord switch.  Barnyard and Barnshine have the same 2 chord switch and a similar vocal line.  What makes it all more confusing is that Barnshine fade had those You Are My Sunshine lyrics on it.  And we know from that Al Kooper book that a very very early version of H&V sounded like "a bunch of weird versions of You Are My Sunshine."  Seems like Sunshine could have played a role in the October H&V also.

This all makes sense to me. I think IIGS would've been like Cantina and Barnyard like Barnshine at some point in H&Vs development. The tape explosion, as one of these quotes comments says, is a cool way to "sequence break" from one seemingly disparate piece to the other. I think these pieces were written around the same time--maybe the same day--for Heroes or a general western Americana kick that got too unwieldy for one song (what, H&V unwieldy? Never!). They may be borne of the same "American Gothic trip" train of thought but they're not a natural fit--Heroes mentions "the city" multiple times and is about gunslingers and a guy dealing with his heartbreak. Barnyard and IIGS are about pastorialism and finding fun in working with nature. It's natural why they'd eventually be taken out at some point.

It's been years since I read it (a revisit is on my to-do list) but I recall Vosse describing a multi (4?) part Barnyard suite incorporating building noises, BY proper, and I believe OMP and/or IIGS. I think this Barnyard suite (which was probably the IIGS seen on the tracklist) was the dumping ground for every disparate H&V segment, obviously unfinished, possibly a companion piece to the 4-part elements track. It'd be a track of 4 snippets, possibly IIGS/IWBA/Workshop/BY in some kind of order--this is why IIGS is with IWBA/WS on BWPS, why Vosse recalls building sounds with Barnyard. Then Heroes became more explicitly "Western" and cowboy centric. This, to me, provides a very satisfying answer to two of SMiLE's greatest mysteries--what was Heroes pre-'67 and what is IIGS on the tracklist?

It seems clear OMP/YAMS was originally in Heroes (then maybe the Barnyard suite) before sorta kinda becoming its own thing, hence the crossed-out parentheses and last place on the Dec tracklist. I think maybe it was originally meant to be the narrator of the song singing about losing his woman to the gunfighting.
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