How much of SMiLE would have been instrumental?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody. 

Only on the "welcomes a time for a change" part. That's hardly the same thing.

[Ebb and Flow]

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody.  

Only on the "welcomes a time for a change" part. That's hardly the same thing.

Don't forget the banjo which contains a great deal of the vocal melody.

[Chris Brown]

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody. 

Only on the "welcomes a time for a change" part. That's hardly the same thing.

Exactly.  Doubling a short bit of melody here is obviously something he did a lot, but the only time he did it through an entire verse, as far as I know, is "Holidays."  Even on "I'm Waiting For The Day," the instrumental double (clarinet, I think) drops away in the second half of the verse ("I know you cried").  Definitely not the same as having an instrumental melody playing throughout.

[Runaways]

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody.  

Only on the "welcomes a time for a change" part. That's hardly the same thing.

Don't forget the banjo which contains a great deal of the vocal melody.

yeah i was referring to the banjo. and it's not like On a Holiday plays for the whole vocal melody, it plays for most of the verse, but none of the chorus.  Actually it keeps playing the same melody as the verse during the chorus. 

[Roger Ryan]

The final harmonies in GV correspond, sorta, with the instrumental chorus in 'Song For Children' The na-na-na-na, na-na-naaa riff?

Ha! Thanks! I finally hear it.

Note that the final instrumental chorus in the BWPS/"Song For Children" version modifies the melody so it sounds even closer to the "Good Vibrations" ending vocal riff. I think once Brian lifted this section of "Look" to end "Good Vibrations", he abandoned the track (figuring it had served its purpose). Amazing that something so beautiful would be tossed aside, but I assume that in 1966 Brian thought he could always come up with something better. Given that BWPS became an album of recurring themes (both musical and lyrically), it made sense to retrieve "Look" and even modify it to acknowledge its connection to "Good Vibrations".

[LostArt]

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody.  

Only on the "welcomes a time for a change" part. That's hardly the same thing.

Don't forget the banjo which contains a great deal of the vocal melody.

yeah i was referring to the banjo. and it's not like On a Holiday plays for the whole vocal melody, it plays for most of the verse, but none of the chorus.  Actually it keeps playing the same melody as the verse during the chorus. 

A lot of people keep saying that the banjo is doubling the verse melody in Cabinessence, but it's not even close.  Rhythmically, the two are kind of similar, but melodically they are very different.  Well, they start on the same note, but after that...nah.

Count me among those who think that Holidays sounds the most like an instrumental.  Good melodies in the intro, and in the verses, and in the xylophone outro.  Obviously no one knows, but it just feels the most like an instrumental to me.

[rab2591]

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody.  

Only on the "welcomes a time for a change" part. That's hardly the same thing.

Don't forget the banjo which contains a great deal of the vocal melody.

yeah i was referring to the banjo. and it's not like On a Holiday plays for the whole vocal melody, it plays for most of the verse, but none of the chorus.  Actually it keeps playing the same melody as the verse during the chorus. 

A lot of people keep saying that the banjo is doubling the verse melody in Cabinessence, but it's not even close.  Rhythmically, the two are kind of similar, but melodically they are very different.  Well, they start on the same note, but after that...nah.

Count me among those who think that Holidays sounds the most like an instrumental.  Good melodies in the intro, and in the verses, and in the xylophone outro.  Obviously no one knows, but it just feels the most like an instrumental to me.

'Holidays' seems too bare to be an instrumental....however I've only heard 'Holidays' in its crappy bootleg form...I'll pass judgement when the boxset comes out.

[Chris Moise]

I really hope that in preperation for the box someone will have sat Al, Mike and Bruce down and, for example, play Look and Holidays and ask if remember if it had lyrics. I know this sounds trivial but those guys are getting up there and when they pass on that knowledge is gone forever.

[guitarfool2002]

I really hope that in preperation for the box someone will have sat Al, Mike and Bruce down and, for example, play Look and Holidays and ask if remember if it had lyrics. I know this sounds trivial but those guys are getting up there and when they pass on that knowledge is gone forever.

This suggestion is definitely not trivial, in fact I'd say it's close to a requirement if you want to record the first-person narrative to add to the history. I hope someone does the very thing you've suggested. Although in the past, Al's famous quote was "that's not Worms!" after hearing what went on the box set as "Worms" with no evidence to suggest that piece of music was something other than "Worms".

But I hope someone does this listening test very soon so we can see/hear the results as part of the package.

[Roger Ryan]

My guess is those guys would respond that they were on tour and had no idea what Brian was recording as backing tracks. Upon hearing them, they may respond with something like "Oh yeah, we used that part for 'Good Vibrations' and that part for the ending of 'Wind Chimes'".

We know there was supposedly a vocal session for "Look", right? Was there one for "Holidays"? Could the vocal session have consisted only of wordless backing vocals in the manner of "Fade To Vegetables", etc.?

[Chris Moise]

My guess is those guys would respond that they were on tour and had no idea what Brian was recording as backing tracks. Upon hearing them, they may respond with something like "Oh yeah, we used that part for 'Good Vibrations' and that part for the ending of 'Wind Chimes'".

We know there was supposedly a vocal session for "Look", right? Was there one for "Holidays"? Could the vocal session have consisted only of wordless backing vocals in the manner of "Fade To Vegetables", etc.?

Certainly possible they won't remember but considering 5 Beach Boys added vocals to Look in October '66 there is a fair chance that between Al, Mike and Bruce one of them will remember something about it. It's likely Look was played in 1972 as well.

It still blows my mind that (apparently) during the bazillion 2004 interviews with Brian and VDP that no one thought to ask such obvious questions such as the '66 Child lyrics, Look vocals, etc. 

[A Million Units In Jan!]

It's likely Look was played in 1972 as well.

. 

What do you mean by this? You mean when they got all the SMiLE tapes out? Just wondering if there was something I missed along the line somewhere!

[Runaways]

Count me among those who think that Holidays sounds the most like an instrumental.  Good melodies in the intro, and in the verses, and in the xylophone outro.  Obviously no one knows, but it just feels the most like an instrumental to me.

why is this nobody knows??  Brian knows, van dyke know.  I don't see any reason why he would add lyrics if it was supposed to be an instrumental.  And don't tell me that he wouldn't remember. I doubt he's listened to "summer means new love" lately, but he definitely knows it's an instrumental. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Count me among those who think that Holidays sounds the most like an instrumental.  Good melodies in the intro, and in the verses, and in the xylophone outro.  Obviously no one knows, but it just feels the most like an instrumental to me.

why is this nobody knows??  Brian knows, van dyke know.  I don't see any reason why he would add lyrics if it was supposed to be an instrumental.  And don't tell me that he wouldn't remember. I doubt he's listened to "summer means new love" lately, but he definitely knows it's an instrumental.  

Sorry but this is incorrect - the decisions that were made for BWPS were made during that immediate time period not in 1966. One of the decisions made was that there would be vocals on every single track and lyrics for everything, even the Water Chant. To be honest, Holidays may not have even been a track on Smile at all, let alone a song with lyrics.

Brian couldn't recall that he had already recorded and released White Christmas. Why would he remember if a song he wrote a few years later and then shelved for over 35 years (probably without being listened to) was meant to have lyrics?

[Bicyclerider]

Count me among those who think that Holidays sounds the most like an instrumental.  Good melodies in the intro, and in the verses, and in the xylophone outro.  Obviously no one knows, but it just feels the most like an instrumental to me.

why is this nobody knows??  Brian knows, van dyke know.  I don't see any reason why he would add lyrics if it was supposed to be an instrumental.  And don't tell me that he wouldn't remember. I doubt he's listened to "summer means new love" lately, but he definitely knows it's an instrumental.  

Sorry but this is incorrect - the decisions that were made for BWPS were made during that immediate time period not in 1966. One of the decisions made was that there would be vocals on every single track and lyrics for everything, even the Water Chant. To be honest, Holidays may not have even been a track on Smile at all, let alone a song with lyrics.

Brian couldn't recall that he had already recorded and released White Christmas. Why would he remember if a song he wrote a few years later and then shelved for over 35 years (probably without being listened to) was meant to have lyrics?

I agree with you except . . . Fire/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow doesn't have lyrics.  Vocals, yes.

[Runaways]

i find it hard to believe that a lot of the singing melodies in 2004 are completely new.  and i just can't listen to "holidays" and ever think there's not supposed to be singing over it.  it's weak as an instrumental by brian's standards i think.  oh well. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

i find it hard to believe that a lot of the singing melodies in 2004 are completely new.[

I don't think there's much to suggest that they are not new (except for DYLW) - especially since the melodies are so drastically different from the ones in 66.

 and i just can't listen to "holidays" and ever think there's not supposed to be singing over it.  it's weak as an instrumental by brian's standards i think.  oh well. 

Well, yeah. I think instrumentally the song is weak compared to the basic music tracks of other songs from that era.

[Chris Moise]

It's likely Look was played in 1972 as well.

What do you mean by this? You mean when they got all the SMiLE tapes out? Just wondering if there was something I missed along the line somewhere!

Sorry about that, the way I wrote it is pretty confusing. I just meant that there is a good chance the tape of the Look instrumental was one of the songs Carl and Desper played in 1972. Just my speculation though, I have nothing to back that up.

[Chris Moise]

why is this nobody knows??  Brian knows, van dyke know.  I don't see any reason why he would add lyrics if it was supposed to be an instrumental.  And don't tell me that he wouldn't remember. I doubt he's listened to "summer means new love" lately, but he definitely knows it's an instrumental. 

Well, presumably Brian and Van Dyke didn't remember the '66 CITFOTM verse lyrics. Either that or they didn't like them. IIRC someone here asked VDP if he he wrote lyrics for Child in '66 and he said he did. I would think he was referring to something other than the chorus vocals.

[Mahalo]

It's curious that the CIFOTM chorus fit so well in Look... simply curious.

[ESQ Editor]

It's curious that the CIFOTM chorus fit so well in Look... simply curious.

Brian was really evolving at this time. Recurring themes were something he was trying to expand upon… For example: "Bicycle Rider."

[Micha]

It's curious that the CIFOTM chorus fit so well in Look... simply curious.

Brian was really evolving at this time. Recurring themes were something he was trying to expand upon… For example: "Bicycle Rider."

Was he really? The earlier alternate version of H&V has no BR theme in it. I wonder if DYLW was scrapped after the the BR theme had become the H&V chorus. Even in BWPS it's only in H&V and RPR, and after that it never pops up again. On Smiley there's a major version of the BR theme used as bridge in Wonderful, and other than that it's all scrapped sections.

[MBE]

Fire seems really unlikely to have had words.