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Topic: Mike Love (Read 17675 times)
Surfer Joe
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #50 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:07:30 AM »
Quote from: erikdavid5000 on July 23, 2008, 01:05:55 AM
I know, it's just like.....
do people sit there and slam Paul because he only contributed a single line or couple of words to a John song but got half the credit?
...... Well, they probably actually do.
Quote from: Billy C on July 23, 2008, 01:25:07 AM
Yeah, they do, which is completely anal and stupid.
It's pretty interesting to look at how differently the Beatles treated songwriting credits. John gave the famous interview to Playboy in which he went through a large number of songs, mostly saying "mine" or "Paul's", occasionally "Paul's garbage, not mine", and occasionally offering an interesting insight or comment, such as that "Here, There, And Everywhere" was one of his favorite songs of all the Beatles' work, or likening "Mother Nature's Son" to John Denver (intended as an insult, I assume). But mostly he considered whoever had the initiative to have written the song.
Then Paul wrote his book (more or less) and went through the songs in much greater detail. He disputed John basically on only two, but gave John a lot of specific credit for things John hadn't claimed. He affirmed that he (Paul) hadn't touched "Strawberry Fields", but corrected John's non-claim on "Penny Lane", saying (I think) that Lennon had written the third verse after Paul got stuck. He spelled out how John had conceived the lyric and story for "Drive My Car" when it was bogged down. So Paul was very specific in remembering what came from who. He described where people were sitting, at times, when things were written.
But when it came to things outside the L/M structure- like Donovan writing "sky of blue, sea of green" for "Yellow Submarine", or the woman who wrote the French lyrics for "Michelle" ("
almost
a co-write", Paul says, and I think he pays her to this day) they wouldn't have dreamed of adding the name. Those were invited "toss-ins", or- in the singular case of "Michelle- a specifically directed piece of work- and the whole substance was already in place. They were non-essential, in a sense. Kind of like a master painter letting one of his assistants fill in some background elements.
Then in 1988 George started giving some interviews, and mentioned that he'd been left off of a few, like "I Feel Fine", which he says was a three-way collaboration amongst Lennon, McCartney, and himself, while riding in the back of a cab, I think. He gave an idea of what it started from, and I can't remember. George was probably right. But McCartney kind of sniffed in response and said "my memory is that 'I Feel Fine' was John's song."
By way of balance, John supposedly contributed to "Taxman" and Lennon and McCartney may both have contributed a little to "Something", but considered those George's songs all the way. They clearly liked the rigidity of the way their credits were handled.
And speaking of George, Duane Allman contributed to the "Layla" lick- he contributed exactly what he played. As you hear on the record, Clapton plays first- he said it needed something- and then when he played it for Allman, Duane came in over the top with the high part on slide that
made
it- exactly as on the record. If you hummed the lick, you would hum what Duane added. He was given 2% as a result, but no credit. (The 2% was never paid, of course, until his daughter Galadrielle sued for it recently).
So..."Good night, baby...sleep tight, baby..."...?
Please.
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KokoMoses
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #51 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:59:06 AM »
I dunno, man. Mike was a founding member of the group. He SUNG those words! However silly or simple they are, they're still words-lyrics with a melody to them that goes around-over-and above the basic chords to the song. Therefore adding a "part" in both words and a melody that was not there when Brian and Tony wrote it. I don't know what the royalty (post lawsuit) breakdown is, but I doubt Mike's claiming to have WRITTEN the song. I can certainly tell ya that if I'd been Mike, I'd have asked for a credit and I would have deserved it too.
If someone were to say that Mike WROTE Wouldn't It be Nice, that would be beyond silly. But he certainly contributed beyond simply singing his lines and bass vocals. Big deal!!!!! Let him have his name on the credits. It doesn't make Brian any less of a genius.
Also, when I watch Brian on the 40th anniversary DVD to Pet Sounds and they show him playing the end of Wouldn't It Be Nice and he's singing "Goodnight baby. Sleep tight baby" with a lovely amount of joy and a big smile..... I mean it's PART of the song!!!!!!!! WTF?
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Roger Ryan
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #52 on:
July 23, 2008, 06:17:16 AM »
Quote from: adamghost on July 23, 2008, 03:19:34 AM
...especially since they used Asher's first line in "Good Vibrations" -- a more key contribution -- but GV is credited to Wilson-Love.
A very insightful post Adam (thanks so much for contributing to this board). But I'm wondering if the opening line of "Good Vibrations" is, in fact, Tony Asher's lyric. The impression I got is that Brian and company took the BWPS "Good Vibrations" lyrics from the demo tape itself (and not from a filed away copy of Asher's original lyrics). Since the opening line is missing from the demo (the lead vocal "punched in" too late on the rough mix?), I assumed they simply used Mike's opening line as a replacement. Is there other evidence to suggest that "I-I love the colorful clothes she wears..." was originally Asher's line?
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John
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #53 on:
July 23, 2008, 08:27:45 AM »
I assumed they punched in Mike's first line because the demo doesn't have one. Further to that, it rhymes with the second line of Mike's lyric.
Mike's been saying he loved Pet Sounds since at least the early seventies. I kinda wish they'd've used his vocal on "I'm Waiting For The Day", since he does need more airtime on the record.
As far as songwriting goes, my band's rule of thumb is/was: Writing the chords and lyrics, that's the credit. If someone else writes ANY lyrics, that's a co-credit. If someone comes up with an instrumental idea that turns the song around, like a drumbeat or a riff which doesn't just follow the logical pattern suggested by the chords, that's a co-credit. Anything else though, no way.
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Amy B.
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #54 on:
July 23, 2008, 08:51:24 AM »
I'm not a songwriter, but I'm a writer and editor, and to me, in many instances, the Mike Love thing seems egotistical and petty. My sister is a magazine writer who sometimes calls me when she's stuck for a turn of phrase or wants feedback on something she's written already. If I suggest something and she uses it, I don't expect my name to go on that article. And as an editor, sometimes I will completely re-write a writer's work, but that writer still gets credit...that's an extreme example, but it's just to say that in songwriting, I don't understand why adding one line merits a writer's credit.
Maybe the thing to do is to stay out of the courts and mention anecdotally that you contributed such-and-such, and oh, wasn't it fun. Then your contribution goes into the annals of music history, and you look like a generous friend rather than an asshole.
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Mr. Wilson
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #55 on:
July 23, 2008, 10:46:40 AM »
What got me started liking + listening to BB was BW falsetto
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Wirestone
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #56 on:
July 23, 2008, 11:40:13 AM »
To my mind, you have to look at the credits thing in context.
Mike's basic concern, and a valid one, is that he co-wrote one of the Beach Boys' biggest hits. "California Girls" is the band's friggin' anthem. If he had written nothing else, the lyrics to that song are still a big contribution to the band's legacy.
Now, I may quarrel with his methods, I may not care for his public persona, but Mike deserves to have his name on that song. And he did what he thought he needed to do to right that wrong. In the process, he obviously listened to the band's back catalog and listed songs to which he contributed things. Thus the lengthy new list of co-writes.
I don't think all of them are defensible (the WIBN and DWB additional co-writes seem a tad opportunistic), but many of them are simply Mike asserting his place. If he got carried away, I can sympathize.
That being said, I think in the history of the band, it's clear that Brian was the major creative force. Mike was nothing close to his equal (as arguably Lennon and McCartney were to one another). But that doesn't diminish the fact that Mike played a role in defining the band's sound and lyrical voice during those years.
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Aegir
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #57 on:
July 23, 2008, 02:31:03 PM »
Quote from: Roger Ryan on July 23, 2008, 06:17:16 AM
Quote from: adamghost on July 23, 2008, 03:19:34 AM
...especially since they used Asher's first line in "Good Vibrations" -- a more key contribution -- but GV is credited to Wilson-Love.
A very insightful post Adam (thanks so much for contributing to this board). But I'm wondering if the opening line of "Good Vibrations" is, in fact, Tony Asher's lyric. The impression I got is that Brian and company took the BWPS "Good Vibrations" lyrics from the demo tape itself (and not from a filed away copy of Asher's original lyrics). Since the opening line is missing from the demo (the lead vocal "punched in" too late on the rough mix?), I assumed they simply used Mike's opening line as a replacement. Is there other evidence to suggest that "I-I love the colorful clothes she wears..." was originally Asher's line?
Yeah, I always figured that the first line was Mike's.
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adamghost
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #58 on:
July 23, 2008, 02:58:42 PM »
Quote from: Roger Ryan on July 23, 2008, 06:17:16 AM
Quote from: adamghost on July 23, 2008, 03:19:34 AM
...especially since they used Asher's first line in "Good Vibrations" -- a more key contribution -- but GV is credited to Wilson-Love.
A very insightful post Adam (thanks so much for contributing to this board). But I'm wondering if the opening line of "Good Vibrations" is, in fact, Tony Asher's lyric. The impression I got is that Brian and company took the BWPS "Good Vibrations" lyrics from the demo tape itself (and not from a filed away copy of Asher's original lyrics). Since the opening line is missing from the demo (the lead vocal "punched in" too late on the rough mix?), I assumed they simply used Mike's opening line as a replacement. Is there other evidence to suggest that "I-I love the colorful clothes she wears..." was originally Asher's line?
I was quoting (from memory, admittedly) Tony Asher's gripe about the WIBN issue, and I don't blame him...you wrestled with the lyrics to the whole song and then some guy comes in and adds two lines at the recording session. But he made the same point that if Mike deserves credit for one line in WIBN then he should get credit for his one line in GV.
And yeah, to me, I wouldn't assert writer's credit for one line or just a short passage...I came up with a brief riff that was used in "Pop Tarte" by Baby Lemonade and they didn't credit me. And I don't think they should have, honestly...they wrote 99% of it and my riff didn't make or break the song (in fact, I don't think they should have used it).
Oh the GOLDMINE date for the Al interview was wrong in my post...it was '99 or '00 I think.
And I really enjoy contributing here and I'm happy if people find value in what I post.
«
Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 03:02:23 PM by adamghost
»
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #59 on:
July 23, 2008, 03:47:47 PM »
So Asher says he wrote the first line? "...Colorful clothes...? Wow, I had never heard that one. I've always thought that the most substantial contributor to the lyrics of that song- and I
love
Mike's verses- is Brian, for coming up with the title/concept, and the line "I'm pickin' up Good Vibrations". That, and the melody and arrangement, sold the song and made it indelible. You could have used any number of verse lyrics, and I doubt you could have found any better than Mike's, but I don't think they really would have altered the song materially (unless they were awful or inappropriate, or just astonishingly great). Didn't like the half-hearted Asher lyric used in '04, but would that have affected response in 1967? I'd have to say definitely no- as a personal opinion. Great as it all is, that song is ultimately about the chorus, at least as far as being a huge number one hit.
Same goes for "California Girls", exactly. That has tremendous lyrics, but whoever gave it that title- Mike, I presume- gave it the lyrics' part in its immortality. I should say the title line- "I wish they all could be California Girls". That's the immortal idea, lyrically.
Whoever came up with "Help Me Rhonda,
Help, Help
Me Rhonda" sent that song to number one (along with the brilliant arrangement, of course).
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Bicyclerider
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #60 on:
July 23, 2008, 04:06:51 PM »
Quote from: Surfer Joe on July 22, 2008, 08:17:31 PM
Granted the premise that Mike is not all that high on the '66/'67 direction (which some of his enthusiasts do not grant, though Mike himself has made no real effort to dispute it): where was Mike's role in the band going at that time?
After "California Girls", there were several singles where Mike was not the lead or not the main lead. Then on
Pet Sounds
, you get through side one and he's almost absent as a lead singer. By my quick, sloppy count: he has the bridge on the first song (and for a short time in the late nineties, the standard radio version became the stereo release without him), one good lead on song three, and then he's not really heard from again until the second verse (only) of the last song, plus one more line. Brian has clearly become the primary lead vocalist (lead or main lead on five of six vocal songs). On side two, we get a true Mike lead, a shared lead (first line of each verse Mike, balance plus chorus Brian), a lead from Carl, and two full leads from Brian. Is it any wonder this isn't his favorite album? Sounds more like the worst trip he'd ever been on.
He's prominent again on "Good Vibrations", of course, as a vocalist (chorus) and lyricist (verses).
Then look at SMiLE. We know "Heroes and Villains" was once intended or considered as a Mike lead, but it didn't end up that way. What Mike leads were intended for that album? We know "Cabinessence" wasn't . Don't think "Worms" was. "Wonderful" wasn't. "Great Shape" doesn't sound like it was headed his way- "Barnyard", "Old Master Painter", maybe (but no evidence). "You Are My Sunshine", no. "Elements", no. "Vegetables", no. "Child Is Father Of The Man"- doesn't sound like a Mike showcase. "Surf's Up", no. Mike's role as co-lead singer was being greatly reduced.
Add to that: Brian had taken on first one, and then another, permanent lyricist. In fairness, I can't really expect Mike to be an enthusiastic supporter of that direction, no matter how wonderful it was. And about seventy percent of the deathless Mike controversy relates to that period (1966/67). Just a different way of looking at it. (His alleged comments on "Til I Die" and any later stuff is another matter).
This is the source of Mike's disgruntlement, there's no doubt. The early days Mike was the lead singer (or co lead singer with Brian) on the singles and the hits - Brian's ballads would be on the albums or Bsides. He was the frontman. As Brian's music grew more complex and away from the Chuck Berry rock and roll style, Brian starting singing the songs and got Carl and Al involved as lead vocalists. If they had taken Pet Sounds or Smile on the road, Mike would be reduced to singing all backing parts (of course he would have insisted on singing some old hits). On the SOT box Mike clearly states he could sing all of Hang On to Your Ego, rather than share the verses with Al. He clearly wants to. He's a singer, not a musician, he needs songs to sing.
Where was Mike earning the most money? From touring? No, from songwriting royalties/publishing. That was where the money was, and the unequal monies paid to the songwriter versus the players broke up many a band, and caused friction in those that didn't break up. And after Brian's "ego" album, which he promised was just for one LP (Pet Sounds) with Tony Asher, now Brian was getting even more far out with a different collaborator and Mike was out again - and out of the money! Good Vibrations' success at this time of course helped, but probably rankled Mike even more - I just wrote a huge hit with you and now you're pushing me out for this "airy fairy" stuff? Mike was jealous and not nice to ANY of Brian's songwriting partners, as Gary Usher or Roger Christian or Tony or Van Dyke would tell you - because they were taking money out of mike's pocket! And I can understand him feeling that way, even though of course I understand Brian needed to pursue his artistic vision with the collaborators of his choice. But if I saw my future income drying up, I would be concerned just like Mike. Why didn't Mike pursue writing credits for California Girls at the time? Because that was just one song, he was expecting to write many more songs and hits with Brian, one song wouldn't matter. But when Brian turned to other collaborators, and Mike began to see he was never going to be the cowriting partner he once was, suddenly those missing songwriting credits became important and a source of resentment and anger towards Brian.
After Smile folded, Brian made amends with Mike by collaborating with him on a Brian & Mike credited single and letting him rewrite a Van Dyke Parks song on Smiley Smile. But look what happened after - suddenly CARL becomes the Beach Boys lead singer on Wild Honey and the subsequent singles like Darlin' and Friends. Mike came up with Do It Again to try and get back in on things, but his leads on 20/20 and Sunflower and Surf's Up are minimal. This is the time Mike tried to get David back in the group (and Bruce out) to try and shift the artistic/power balance in the group more in his favor.
I don't mean any of this to be critical of Mike - aren't we all guided by self interest, ultimately? And Mike felt the more commercial approach which he espoused was the correct one for the group. But when it was no longer Mike and Brian coming up with the songs, but Brian and Carl and Dennis and Bruce, Mike's role was definitely minimized.
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Dancing Bear
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #61 on:
July 23, 2008, 04:27:48 PM »
I don't know, if you take everything through this kind of focus, then Brian could be cutting Mike off the creative process for personal reasons as well. About David, I think he just wanted to give an old friend a hand.
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Wirestone
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #62 on:
July 23, 2008, 04:38:18 PM »
Surfer Joe: Given that Brian's original title for CG was "Yeah, I Dig the Girls" (and is what they're singing the background on the fade), my assumption has always been that Mike took that line and revised it to "I wish they all could be..."
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Sheriff John Stone
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #63 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:13:21 PM »
Quote from: Bicyclerider on July 23, 2008, 04:06:51 PM
This is the source of Mike's disgruntlement, there's no doubt. The early days Mike was the lead singer (or co lead singer with Brian) on the singles and the hits - Brian's ballads would be on the albums or Bsides. He was the frontman. As Brian's music grew more complex and away from the Chuck Berry rock and roll style, Brian starting singing the songs and got Carl and Al involved as lead vocalists. If they had taken Pet Sounds or Smile on the road, Mike would be reduced to singing all backing parts (of course he would have insisted on singing some old hits). On the SOT box Mike clearly states he could sing all of Hang On to Your Ego, rather than share the verses with Al. He clearly wants to. He's a singer, not a musician, he needs songs to sing.
Where was Mike earning the most money? From touring? No, from songwriting royalties/publishing. That was where the money was, and the unequal monies paid to the songwriter versus the players broke up many a band, and caused friction in those that didn't break up. And after Brian's "ego" album, which he promised was just for one LP (Pet Sounds) with Tony Asher, now Brian was getting even more far out with a different collaborator and Mike was out again - and out of the money! Good Vibrations' success at this time of course helped, but probably rankled Mike even more - I just wrote a huge hit with you and now you're pushing me out for this "airy fairy" stuff? Mike was jealous and not nice to ANY of Brian's songwriting partners, as Gary Usher or Roger Christian or Tony or Van Dyke would tell you - because they were taking money out of mike's pocket! And I can understand him feeling that way, even though of course I understand Brian needed to pursue his artistic vision with the collaborators of his choice. But if I saw my future income drying up, I would be concerned just like Mike. Why didn't Mike pursue writing credits for California Girls at the time? Because that was just one song, he was expecting to write many more songs and hits with Brian, one song wouldn't matter. But when Brian turned to other collaborators, and Mike began to see he was never going to be the cowriting partner he once was, suddenly those missing songwriting credits became important and a source of resentment and anger towards Brian.
After Smile folded, Brian made amends with Mike by collaborating with him on a Brian & Mike credited single and letting him rewrite a Van Dyke Parks song on Smiley Smile. But look what happened after - suddenly CARL becomes the Beach Boys lead singer on Wild Honey and the subsequent singles like Darlin' and Friends. Mike came up with Do It Again to try and get back in on things, but his leads on 20/20 and Sunflower and Surf's Up are minimal. This is the time Mike tried to get David back in the group (and Bruce out) to try and shift the artistic/power balance in the group more in his favor.
I don't mean any of this to be critical of Mike - aren't we all guided by self interest, ultimately? And Mike felt the more commercial approach which he espoused was the correct one for the group. But when it was no longer Mike and Brian coming up with the songs, but Brian and Carl and Dennis and Bruce, Mike's role was definitely minimized.
Bicyclerider, excellent post. Well written, well thought out. I agree with most of it, but I disagree - indirectly - with one point. I don't think Mike Love wanted to be Brian's co-songwriter as much for the credit/royalties/publishing, but more for the direction of the music and the group, which in turn resulted in more/less money.
While Mike maybe never said, "Don't fu-- with the formula", he probably felt that way. And fought for it. Mike supports Pet Sounds now, but I don't think as much in 1966. It probably scared him. Same with "Good Vibrations". And we know about SMiLE.
And I don't blame Mike; I would've felt the same way. I think Mike wanted back into the picture TO ASSURE that things didn't go totally to hell. And the only way he could accomplish that was to be the lyricist, singer, leader on stage, etc. And, that, Bicyclerider, is where I'm disagreeing - indirectly. Had, in Mike's view anyway, they could've kept those good vibrations a-happening, THAT would've led to the constant flow of money that he desired. I think Mike would've been content with that.
As you correctly pointed out, Bicyclerider, Mike's role was lessened after "Good Vibrations". But, think how things must've looked - in Mike's eyes - during that period. The group was dropped by their record company. Singles weren't charting as high, or at all. Albums weren't only sinking on the charts, they were being rejected by the new record company. The live audiences were dwindling. And the group was near bankruptcy. This is probably what Mike feared; it was all unfolding right in front of him.
Now, I am not saying that if Brian and the guys continued to churn out more Beach Boys Today and Summer Days (And Summer Nights) albums, the same things wouldn't have happened, but I'll bet Mike was saying it. Or at least thinking it. And, I think those down times were a big influence on Mike's thinking after Endless Summer. He saw it happen before; he wasn't gonna let it happen again. Of course, it did...
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #64 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:14:06 PM »
Thanks, claymcc- I think that's more than I knew on that, definitely more than I had retained. Just thinking of that line in place before anything else gives a good insight into how it came together.
Bicyclerider- interesting comments. I'll respond in a bit, if I can think up anything substantive to say! Bottom line is, I've always seen those two factors as the STONE OBVIOUS underlying cause of most of the tension during that time. If they weren't stated. it was because I thought they were just taken for granted. I actually ranked them the other way in my head- (A) Mike standing to one side of the stage, shaking a tambourine like Davy on most all of the new stuff. (B) Royalties/ personal input diverted. And there's actually a third, much smaller one that I zero in on, even more obvious, but seldom stated, which I'll expound upon when I come back after these messages.
This has been the most thoughtful, balanced, and civil of all the thousands of painful Mike threads I've read over the years. Nobody seems to have gone to one corner or another to champion just one side. Maybe enough time has passed to add perspective, I don't know. It has for me.
Punctuation and spelling's been unusually good, too, but we need to work on our margins.
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John
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #65 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:16:20 PM »
Quote from: Bicyclerider on July 23, 2008, 04:06:51 PM
On the SOT box Mike clearly states he could sing all of Hang On to Your Ego, rather than share the verses with Al. He clearly wants to. He's a singer, not a musician, he needs songs to sing.
Really? That's interesting.
Quote
This is the time Mike tried to get David back in the group (and Bruce out) to try and shift the artistic/power balance in the group more in his favor.
Was this supposed to get Bruce out though? I know Bruce was wanted out in 1969 - and replaced by Billy Hinsche, but I didn't know he supposed to leave when Dave came in - I thought the (somewhat ridiculous) plan was for Dave to be bass and Bruce to go to keyboards.
Just for the record, I much prefer Mike's lyrics to GV to Asher's, and would have much preferred them on BWPS. It slightly smacked of pettiness in not using them, frankly.
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Surfer Joe
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #66 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:20:42 PM »
Quote from: Sheriff John Stone on July 23, 2008, 05:13:21 PM
I don't think Mike Love wanted to be Brian's co-songwriter as much for the credit/royalties/publishing, but more for the direction of the music and the group, which in turn resulted in more/less money.
I was having the same thought, while you were typing that. Money aside, and that's substantial, co-writing is also a heavy dose of band leadership.
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Sheriff John Stone
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Re: Mike Love
«
Reply #67 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:45:04 PM »
I'm sorry, I forgot to add something to my last post, as if it wasn't long enough...
In some ways, I feel that I can relate to how Mike Love was feeling when the music was changing. I was a product of Endless Summer/Spirit Of America, back in 1975. Those were the albums that hooked me. The most "un-Beach Boys" song on both of those albums might've been "Breakaway". So I got a heavy dose of surf & turf, Mike Love's kinda music.
At that time, there were few Beach Boys' books available, so most fans learned about the music (and the group) by listening to it first. Also at that time, Reprise released these 2-fer albums; I believe it was Smiley Smile & 20/20 and Wild Honey & Friends. Well, I found these albums in a bargain bin (remember how thay used to cut the corners off of 'em), and bought them both. Now, again, remember, all I knew was the material from basically 1963-66, and I wanted more of the same. I still remember dropping the needle on Smiley Smile, and thinking that they put the wrong record inside the album jacket. This couldn't be The Beach Boys! I thought it was crap. Not now, but then I did. How could The Beach Boys go from "Please Let Me Wonder" to "She's Goin' Bald"? What the hell was this? Who fu--ed with the formula? That was 35 years ago. I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. But it also helped me understand Mike Love.
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adamghost
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #68 on:
July 23, 2008, 05:51:20 PM »
John and Rider -- AWESOME posts, and I think you hit the nail on the head, Rider.
When I was making my "Good Things About Mike Love" list I left out a big one which John reminded me of -- how he treated David Marks. I was very impressed with Mike reading "The Lost Beach Boy" -- doing good works when nobody's looking is the mark of true character, and I can see how that particular type of good deed would resonate well with Mike's particular morality and personality.
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TdHabib
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #69 on:
July 23, 2008, 06:22:08 PM »
Quote from: Bicyclerider on July 23, 2008, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: Surfer Joe on July 22, 2008, 08:17:31 PM
This is the time Mike tried to get David back in the group (and Bruce out) to try and shift the artistic/power balance in the group more in his favor.
Didn't the group also try to oust Bruce in favor of Billy Hinsche, in 1970, as well?
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I like the Beatles a bit more than the Boys of Beach, I think Brian's band is the tops---really amazing. And finally, I'm liberal. That's it.
Wirestone
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #70 on:
July 23, 2008, 08:44:00 PM »
I used to find Mike as a person very difficult to deal with. But he's done a few things recently that have softened my views a bit.
One, he actually rose to the challenge presented by Brian's shows. Some folks here won't remember what a big deal it was in 99 to just look at Brian's first setlists. They were awe-inspiring. And at the time, you could predict Mike's setlists from show to show pretty easily. But guess what? As the years passed and Brian gained notice, Mike has changed the shows. They play "All This is That" now, for God's sake! And this makes me like Mike simply because he isn't content to stay in place when challenged -- he actually will adapt. And there's something admirable in that.
Two, he actually recorded some good songs recently. "Cool Head, Warm Heart" has some icky bits, but it's also a better song than I would have ever expected from him at this stage in the game. And he deserves real respect for that -- especially given that there's not real demand for Mike Love solo material.
With all that said, I still don't especially like him, or his lead vocals. I came into the music through Brian, and that's why I'm still following it. But Mike's with us, for better or worse.
«
Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 09:18:01 PM by claymcc
»
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DonnaK
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #71 on:
July 23, 2008, 09:38:32 PM »
I'm sorry guys, I still don't like the guy. Something about his attitude that his stuff doesn't stink. He comes across that on stage to me--like he thinks he's God's gift to women. I still swear he stuffs a sock in his pants!!
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roll plymouth rock
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #72 on:
July 23, 2008, 09:46:34 PM »
I like the way he sings, perhaps what he sings is another matter from time to time. I have met him twice, and he is interesting, yeah a little corny, but funny too and was cool enough to go along to India with The Beatles to meet the Maharishi in '68. He wasn't thinking when he started Club Kokomo though
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n19_v31/ai_19402272
All in all, he is a rad singer...some of the coolest BB parts are sung by him, and he is the only one who consistently got his own mic so his parts sounded right. THat must mean he plays an integral role in the sound. I personally have always LOVED the things he sings in Cool Cool Water
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http://barnabybennett.snack.ws
Wirestone
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Re: Mike Love
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Reply #73 on:
July 23, 2008, 10:16:26 PM »
It was my understanding that Mike got his own microphone because he's not a "real" bass singer -- that is, he can't really project his bass notes with any power. He needed the separate microphone simply so the notes wouldn't be drowned out by the other singers. His natural range is obviously somewhat higher.
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