Mike Love

[halblaineisgood]

*redacted*......I read a lot of stuff. .....*redacted*





no!

[Jason]

Any true fan of the Beach Boys knows it was the voice on the classic hits that got them hooked to begin with. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves.

/thread

[MBE]

Mike is very important on so many levels. I think many (if not all)  of his post '73 decisions were misguided, but until that time he created some wonderful work. If others hadn't sought to bash him I bet that he wouldn't be so overly defensive today. After I learned how many songs he actually wrote, I changed my mind about him quite a bit.

[Wirestone]

Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated.

[Jason]

Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated.

Opinions = facts in the minds of those who have them.

Serious answer follows.

I do admit to being more than a trifle brusque with the preceding comment but I find it very hard to believe that people with absolutely no interest in the Beach Boys could get into them without the strength of the classic tunes which Michael sang lead on. IMO, of course, it seems like these fans are speaking with the cloudiness of hindsight and one too many reads of a biased book on the topic or Brian's consistently confounded responses to a stupid interviewer's questions which he's been asked a thousand times before.

They all had their places. Mike was the lead singer. Brian had the high voice. Carl was the angel. Dennis was Dennis. Al was the man on the corner.

However, the best singer in the band was not one of them alone, but the combination of all five, or six, or even SEVEN (!) of them. Individually they weren't great, or maybe even good singers for the most part, but together they ruled.

Keep it clean with Al Jardine.

[KokoMoses]

My opinion tends to piss people off, but it's an honest opinion therefore I will speak it.

Lots of people who consider themselves hipsters and into edgy weird stuff: when approaching the Beach Boys,   they go searching around for something hip weird and cool in the BBs catalog (to me it's ALL hip weird and cool, but nevermind) and of course they're drawn to the Smile stuff naturally. Then from there they get really into the story of Smile and they read Dominic Piore and David Leaf stuff and suddenly Mike's the Hitler of rock n roll and that's it, end of story.

[carl r]

Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated.

Yeah, great point, I totally agree. The Today album's full of Lovester bass vocals, Breakaway being good later example of this I reckon.

However, quite a few people I know are are irritated by Brian and Carl's leads and don't mind Mike's.

Perhaps he had a more conventional "pop" vocal range?

Incidentally, for me Mike isn't evil, at some stage would have been a great laugh - but definitely lost the plot at some stage in... lots of ways. Such is rock'n'roll I guess.

[Wirestone]

I find it very hard to believe that people with absolutely no interest in the Beach Boys could get into them without the strength of the classic tunes which Michael sang lead on. IMO, of course, it seems like these fans are speaking with the cloudiness of hindsight and one too many reads of a biased book on the topic or Brian's consistently confounded responses to a stupid interviewer's questions which he's been asked a thousand times before.

Jason: I will say it again. Please don't presume to speak for me. I will say it again, in case I wasn't clear the first time: Mike Love's lead vocals were not what attracted me to the Beach Boys.

Perhaps it was because I liked these songs:

Surfer Girl
In My Room
Don't Worry Baby
Help Me Rhonda
God Only Knows
Wouldn't It Be Nice
Heroes and Villains
Darlin

None of which, you will note, have a "Michael" Love lead vocal on them. Yes, yes, he's on the WIBN bridge. I know.

There is no question, that in general, Mike's distinctive nasal tone was one of the things that set the BBs apart and that made many people like them. However, those songs have always been my least favorite in the catalog, and they were not the ones that led me to explore the band.

And yes, my opinion of Mike Love has been "biased" by witnessing what he has said and done in the last fifteen years. I won't run through the list; folks can reach their own conclusions, as I have reached mine. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether I like his voice. Hell, I like Phil Spector records, and he probably shot a woman.

Edit: Admittedly, I have recently listened to the Summer In Paradise album again and enjoyed it. That's right, enjoyed it.

[KokoMoses]

Edit: Admittedly, I have recently listened to the Summer In Paradise album again and enjoyed it. That's right, enjoyed it.

I think actually listening let alone enjoying Summer In Paradise ought to be a special Beach Boys medal of honor. Maybe I'll design one and manufacture em and hand em out! That would be cool.

[RickD]

I find it very hard to believe that people with absolutely no interest in the Beach Boys could get into them without the strength of the classic tunes which Michael sang lead on. IMO, of course, it seems like these fans are speaking with the cloudiness of hindsight and one too many reads of a biased book on the topic or Brian's consistently confounded responses to a stupid interviewer's questions which he's been asked a thousand times before.

Jason: I will say it again. Please don't presume to speak for me. I will say it again, in case I wasn't clear the first time: Mike Love's lead vocals were not what attracted me to the Beach Boys.

Perhaps it was because I liked these songs:

Surfer Girl
In My Room
Don't Worry Baby
Help Me Rhonda
God Only Knows
Wouldn't It Be Nice
Heroes and Villains
Darlin

None of which, you will note, have a "Michael" Love lead vocal on them. Yes, yes, he's on the WIBN bridge. I know.

There is no question, that in general, Mike's distinctive nasal tone was one of the things that set the BBs apart and that made many people like them. However, those songs have always been my least favorite in the catalog, and they were not the ones that led me to explore the band.

And yes, my opinion of Mike Love has been "biased" by witnessing what he has said and done in the last fifteen years. I won't run through the list; folks can reach their own conclusions, as I have reached mine. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether I like his voice. Hell, I like Phil Spector records, and he probably shot a woman.

Edit: Admittedly, I have recently listened to the Summer In Paradise album again and enjoyed it. That's right, enjoyed it.

ditto - except the SIP bit   

and add Surf's Up, I Can Hear Music, most of Pet Sounds - just about anything that has Carl's voice on it.

[adamghost]

I was one of those people who was very put off by the Beach Boys sun 'n' surf image as conveyed by Mike Love, and loathed them instinctively until I discovered them through their '70s work.  Then I started working my way back and grew to appreciate the '60s stuff as well....the point is well taken, but it's equally true that there are a lot of people that might be more receptive to the Beach Boys if not for the image that Mike sometimes personifies (and yeah, other members of the band have contributed to this problem at various points too).

I also get tired of the word "bashing," as if anyone who has issues with Mike (or anybody else for that matter) is on some sort of biased delusion.  There's plenty on the public record to criticize, and what I've heard privately from those that knew him has not made me feel he's been treated unfairly.  If the criticism is fair and warranted, it's not bashing.  It's criticism, which is a form of accountability for public figures, who by definition have more power (and lawyers) than us mere mortals.  It's also subject to rebuttal or other perspectives.

So having said that, I'd like to pivot here and second some of the things that were said here in praise of Mike:
* Mike was absolutely crucial in the early days.  As someone else pointed out, you needed that cocky/corny front man to put the music over to the kids.  It sometimes got in the way later, but in the early days Mike ruled as a frontman.
* Bass vocals.  Outstanding work in the '60s.  Very underrated as a bass singer.
* Lyrics.  I think Mike's role as a songwriter has been overstated a little (in my opinion the best lyricist the BBs ever had may have been Roger Christian), but he's written some ace lyrics (again, mostly in the early days when he really knew how to talk to his audience).   Forget "The Warmth of The Sun," "Fun Fun Fun" is real poetry.
* Advocacy of TM.  Yeah, he's been heavy handed in his TM obsession, but it's something the guy believes in and genuinely feels will benefit humanity, and he's pursued it faithfully and in the face of a great deal of derision for 40 years.  That takes balls.
* Punching Out Murry in '63.
* Showing Up For Work.  For better or worse, Mike's been the most devoted (and probably driven) member of the band, at nearly every show since the beginning.  And he clearly loves what he does.

It's true that you can't have the Beach Boys from '62-65 without Mike.  Brian was the engine but Mike had a key role in making it work for the masses.  I'd argue that Mike never comfortably found his niche in the "new" Beach Boys, and that's why he's tended to pull the band in a direction that he's more comfortable with. 

I know it doesn't sound like it, but I have a certain level of sympathy for Mike.    Being in a band with Brian and Dennis had to be absolutely exasperating for him (and, of course, vice versa).  You're there for 40 years, you do your job and stay clean, and everyone hates you and loves your drugged out cousins from the wrong side of the tracks.  There are solid reasons why that is, starting with matters of artistic quality, attitude and aesthetic, but those are not things Mike really "gets," and absent understanding that, it all must seem very unfair to him.

But there ya go...six real people dealing with difficult situations for 47 years.  I couldn't have dealt with it...

[KokoMoses]

Wonderful post, Adam. No need for me or anyone else to knock or argue with any of it.

I will say, however, that there are a lot of people, myself included who did come to love the Beach Boys through their early hits. I grew up in Hawthorne with my parents blasting Endless Summer, so the Boys were mythic. As I got older I re-approached the BBs through their late 60s and 70s work and fell in love with them all over again. But it will always be the early hits that grabbed a hold of me. Therefore I happen to simply be a fan of Mike's work. How can I not be if I love the early stuff so much? So, naturally I will defend him. And I'm not just an "early hits guy" My top two BBs albums are Holland and All Summer Long. Great examples of both sides of the Beach Boys coin.

And IMHO, Mike contributed GREATLY to the Beach Boys late 60's-70s work. Sure, he didn't sing lead on every other song or duo with Brian, but his voice was extremely prominent and kept the band SOUNDING like the Beach Boys. Which to me, is an important factor. I love when he comes in during the breakdown in "It's About Time".... It's so obviously the same band who cut "Surfin" but it's a completely different thing yet still the same. To me this is glorious.

The guy co-wrote almost all of Wild Honey. And let's not forget he sand lead on the album version of "Let The Wind Blow."

Other great later stuff Mike contributed to heavily or at least has a writing credit on.

Meant For You
All I wanna Do
Add Some Music
Only With You
Sound of Free
POB
All This Is That
He Come Down
Big Sur
Do It Again
Good Vibrations
Let us Go On This Way
Time To Get Alone
It's Ok
Don't Go Near The Water
Cool Cool Water (my all time favorite BBS song)
Goin On
Sumahama
Funky Pretty
Be Here In The Morning

..... And let's not forget the guy did write the lyrics for I'm Waiting For The Day. He's has that credit on Pet Sounds and you and I don't.

Also....

Please Let Me Wonder (some of my favorite lyrics of all-time)

I won't get into the eary early stuff. And so much of it is good.

I'm just trying to point out that it IS possible to be a legitimate fan of Mike's. And if you started as a fan, no matter what you hear or read, you're still at least a fan of his contributions.

And he continued to be a great frontman all through the 70's. His 80's and 90s outfits are horrid and they really did a lot to make the band look cheesier than they had to. His 70s outfits might have been silly, but I for one think he most always looked at least weird if not cool. And weird is just about as good.

[KokoMoses]

And I don't know if it's fair to claim that Mike doesn't get things like artistic quality, attitue and asthetic. If anything, he simply has his own ideas about what constitutes such things. You or I may not agree with his ideas, but to say he doesn't "get" such things is certainly approaching the parameters of "bashing"

[MBE]

I was one of those people who was very put off by the Beach Boys sun 'n' surf image as conveyed by Mike Love, and loathed them instinctively until I discovered them through their '70s work.  Then I started working my way back and grew to appreciate the '60s stuff as well....the point is well taken, but it's equally true that there are a lot of people that might be more receptive to the Beach Boys if not for the image that Mike sometimes personifies (and yeah, other members of the band have contributed to this problem at various points too).

I also get tired of the word "bashing," as if anyone who has issues with Mike (or anybody else for that matter) is on some sort of biased delusion.  There's plenty on the public record to criticize, and what I've heard privately from those that knew him has not made me feel he's been treated unfairly.  If the criticism is fair and warranted, it's not bashing.  It's criticism, which is a form of accountability for public figures, who by definition have more power (and lawyers) than us mere mortals.  It's also subject to rebuttal or other perspectives.

So having said that, I'd like to pivot here and second some of the things that were said here in praise of Mike:
* Mike was absolutely crucial in the early days.  As someone else pointed out, you needed that cocky/corny front man to put the music over to the kids.  It sometimes got in the way later, but in the early days Mike ruled as a frontman.
* Bass vocals.  Outstanding work in the '60s.  Very underrated as a bass singer.
* Lyrics.  I think Mike's role as a songwriter has been overstated a little (in my opinion the best lyricist the BBs ever had may have been Roger Christian), but he's written some ace lyrics (again, mostly in the early days when he really knew how to talk to his audience).   Forget "The Warmth of The Sun," "Fun Fun Fun" is real poetry.
* Advocacy of TM.  Yeah, he's been heavy handed in his TM obsession, but it's something the guy believes in and genuinely feels will benefit humanity, and he's pursued it faithfully and in the face of a great deal of derision for 40 years.  That takes balls.
* Punching Out Murry in '63.
* Showing Up For Work.  For better or worse, Mike's been the most devoted (and probably driven) member of the band, at nearly every show since the beginning.  And he clearly loves what he does.

It's true that you can't have the Beach Boys from '62-65 without Mike.  Brian was the engine but Mike had a key role in making it work for the masses.  I'd argue that Mike never comfortably found his niche in the "new" Beach Boys, and that's why he's tended to pull the band in a direction that he's more comfortable with. 

I know it doesn't sound like it, but I have a certain level of sympathy for Mike.    Being in a band with Brian and Dennis had to be absolutely exasperating for him (and, of course, vice versa).  You're there for 40 years, you do your job and stay clean, and everyone hates you and loves your drugged out cousins from the wrong side of the tracks.  There are solid reasons why that is, starting with matters of artistic quality, attitude and aesthetic, but those are not things Mike really "gets," and absent understanding that, it all must seem very unfair to him.

But there ya go...six real people dealing with difficult situations for 47 years.  I couldn't have dealt with it...

Good post, but actually he comes off better with most people I have talked to then his rep. Bruce that's another story.......

[lance]

Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated.

Agreed. In My Room and Wouldn't It Be Nice were the songs that really kicked it off for me--Mike's voice annoyed me. Now I like it OK, though.

[Amy B.]

I was one of those people who was very put off by the Beach Boys sun 'n' surf image as conveyed by Mike Love, and loathed them instinctively until I discovered them through their '70s work.  Then I started working my way back and grew to appreciate the '60s stuff as well....the point is well taken, but it's equally true that there are a lot of people that might be more receptive to the Beach Boys if not for the image that Mike sometimes personifies (and yeah, other members of the band have contributed to this problem at various points too).

I also get tired of the word "bashing," as if anyone who has issues with Mike (or anybody else for that matter) is on some sort of biased delusion.  There's plenty on the public record to criticize, and what I've heard privately from those that knew him has not made me feel he's been treated unfairly.  If the criticism is fair and warranted, it's not bashing.  It's criticism, which is a form of accountability for public figures, who by definition have more power (and lawyers) than us mere mortals.  It's also subject to rebuttal or other perspectives.

So having said that, I'd like to pivot here and second some of the things that were said here in praise of Mike:
* Mike was absolutely crucial in the early days.  As someone else pointed out, you needed that cocky/corny front man to put the music over to the kids.  It sometimes got in the way later, but in the early days Mike ruled as a frontman.
* Bass vocals.  Outstanding work in the '60s.  Very underrated as a bass singer.
* Lyrics.  I think Mike's role as a songwriter has been overstated a little (in my opinion the best lyricist the BBs ever had may have been Roger Christian), but he's written some ace lyrics (again, mostly in the early days when he really knew how to talk to his audience).   Forget "The Warmth of The Sun," "Fun Fun Fun" is real poetry.
* Advocacy of TM.  Yeah, he's been heavy handed in his TM obsession, but it's something the guy believes in and genuinely feels will benefit humanity, and he's pursued it faithfully and in the face of a great deal of derision for 40 years.  That takes balls.
* Punching Out Murry in '63.
* Showing Up For Work.  For better or worse, Mike's been the most devoted (and probably driven) member of the band, at nearly every show since the beginning.  And he clearly loves what he does.

It's true that you can't have the Beach Boys from '62-65 without Mike.  Brian was the engine but Mike had a key role in making it work for the masses.  I'd argue that Mike never comfortably found his niche in the "new" Beach Boys, and that's why he's tended to pull the band in a direction that he's more comfortable with. 

I know it doesn't sound like it, but I have a certain level of sympathy for Mike.    Being in a band with Brian and Dennis had to be absolutely exasperating for him (and, of course, vice versa).  You're there for 40 years, you do your job and stay clean, and everyone hates you and loves your drugged out cousins from the wrong side of the tracks.  There are solid reasons why that is, starting with matters of artistic quality, attitude and aesthetic, but those are not things Mike really "gets," and absent understanding that, it all must seem very unfair to him.

But there ya go...six real people dealing with difficult situations for 47 years.  I couldn't have dealt with it...

Very well said. I agree with everything in this post (except I think Tony Asher was the best lyricist and I got into the BBs from Pet Sounds.)

[Amy B.]

Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated.

Yes, I got into the Beach Boys through Pet Sounds, where Brian had most leads. Mike's lead on That's Not Me was my least favorite on the album. Knowing nothing about the Beach Boys, I just had a less favorable view of that lead vocal. The bass singer, on the other hand, was great!   

[KokoMoses]

this is kinda silly

i'm sure there are loads of people who got into the beach boys because of kokomo. does this make them lesser fans?

hey, i got into the beatles because my mom used to play me octopus' garden when I was little. it's still one of my top 3 beatles songs. does it matter?

[Amy B.]

this is kinda silly

i'm sure there are loads of people who got into the beach boys because of kokomo. does this make them lesser fans?

hey, i got into the beatles because my mom used to play me octopus' garden when I was little. it's still one of my top 3 beatles songs. does it matter?

Of course not. I think we were all just responding to the statement that Mike Love's lead vocals are what get fans into the Beach Boys. Not always the case.

[KokoMoses]

and I can agree with that. for me it wasn't any one singer but the way their voices so perfectly fit together. how they all sang with such pure-ness. no affection or showy vibrato, just pure, perfect tone.... the BBs voices are like a singular insturment. So, if I was ever paying attention to any one voice, I qucikly became aware or the other voices swooping under or over the lead.... I admit to loving Carl's voice best of all though.

[smile-holland]

this is kinda silly

i'm sure there are loads of people who got into the beach boys because of kokomo. does this make them lesser fans?

Gotta admit (again) that is exactly how I became interested in the BB (and still they let me become a moderator...  ). Hey, I'am older and wiser now...

[Jonas]

I find it very hard to believe that people with absolutely no interest in the Beach Boys could get into them without the strength of the classic tunes which Michael sang lead on. IMO, of course, it seems like these fans are speaking with the cloudiness of hindsight and one too many reads of a biased book on the topic or Brian's consistently confounded responses to a stupid interviewer's questions which he's been asked a thousand times before.

Jason: I will say it again. Please don't presume to speak for me. I will say it again, in case I wasn't clear the first time: Mike Love's lead vocals were not what attracted me to the Beach Boys.

IMO = In my opinion...

[Wirestone]

Jonas: I understand basic internet jargon. The addition of an IMO does not make Jason's statement any less presumptuous. He was simply restating his point, and I was restating mine. All posts on message boards are, by definition, IMOs anyway (I assume that the almighty does not make it a practice to post regularly).

[John]

Individually they weren't great, or maybe even good singers for the most part,

Wha?

That said, I agree with you in that I got into them through mostly the Mike stuff.

[donald]

The first record I bought by the BeachBoys was Fun, Fun, Fun.  I was a kid.  This was a new record on the radio and I saved my allowance to by 45's.  Yup.  Thats how foda OLD I am.  And I didn't know Mike Love from Brian Wilson at the time ...although I came to notice that these BeachBoys songs were credited to a writing team of (Wilson-Love).  The flip side of FFF was Why Do Fools Fall In Love? with Brian on lead.  I thought this was a great flip side and played it often.  For all I knew it was an original song, having not been old enough to listen when it first made the air with Frankie Lymon.

What drew me to the band was the overall sound; The  lead vocal, the bands vocal chorus, and I loved the lead guitar intro and the heavy use of organ in the middle of FFF.    I had heard the lovely falsetto on other songs but didn't know it was Brian.   Much later, I heard Carls vocals on songs such as I Can Hear Music, but still knew this as the lovely falsetto voice and harmonies of the band.  Just LOVED that sound.    The sound.   Not Mike, Not Brian, Not Carl, but the sound.

Point of all of this, and I think it has been said already, is that the sound of all of those people, in combination, was what made the Beachboys great.   And Mike Love was, and is,  a key part of the BeachBoys.