The influence of BW/Beach Boys on other music you listen to?

[hypehat]

As I put Be My Baby on for the 7th time in a row I started pondering - do I obsess over this song because I love it as a piece of music unto itself, or is it the BW connection that makes me love it? Similar thing with Gershwin - Rhapsody In Blue is my favourite Gershwin piece, but I know it primarily from Brian's repping for it.

I know a fair few folks here love Gershwin, as they do The Ronettes, but if anyone's favourite Beatles album is Rubber Soul would they place Brian's worship of that record as a pivotal reason they enjoy it? Is it some kind of hero worship on Brian's behalf, not on Spector's, Gershwin's, or The Beatles behalf, that we enjoy the music he likes? Like, recently I've been really enjoying The Four Freshmen (Brian's favourite band!) and I suddenly thought that, well, sure it's nice and well made, but am I not just rubbernecking on 16 year old Brian listening to records? I listened to it cos he likes it, after all.

A similar thing also occurs to me when I try not to fall asleep during High Llamas records, in spite of myself. Sean O'Hagan is a boring songwriter dressing up his boring songs with Wilson-esque percussion techniques, arrangements and weak harmonies. I don't consider The High Llamas a good band, and yet I listen, so again I wonder why - is it his Brian worship, and subsequent aping of that technique that makes it worthwhile? Why should it? Why am I listening to a band whose only merit is that it sounds (and only sounds, with no individual talent) like another band?

Egohanger's thread below me sparked this off, as it's the way I imagine a few people here if not most find new music, as do I - what sounds like this thing I like?

I kinda am at a loose end with what I'm thinking here (strange mindset today, I think) but does the express or tacit admiration of Brian, or The Beach Boys influence what you listen to, or indeed what you really enjoy listening to? I keep thinking of that thread we had recently about modern bands, where people just listed BW soundalikes. Does the influence of BW permeate your listening? Am I going to start listening to The Kingston Trio?

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've had a couple "Oh, so that's where Brian got that from..." moments, but it hasn't led me anywhere significant.

I remember hearing The Four Freshmen for the first time AFTER I became a big Beach Boys fan and immediately thinking, "So THAT'S where Brian got the falsetto and harmony style from..." However, I never really got into the Freshmen.

Same thing with Phil Spector. After reading about Spector's influence on Brian, I bought a vinyl Spector comp and again thought, "Oh, so THAT'S what really influenced the Pet Sounds production....". But, again, I never got heavily into Spector. The Christmas album is probably my most listened to Spector record.

I have a surf and drag comp but rarely listen to it. Maybe Jan & Dean is the most Beach Boys-like music that I listen to.

So, I can't really say that listening to The Beach Boys/Brian Wilson has led me to any other artists or music significantly.

[rab2591]

I listen to Sail Away by Randy Newman mainly because Brian was obsessed with it. It's a beautiful album unto itself, but I can't not help but think of Brian's obsession with it, and thus it makes me obsess over it....very strange, yes. This is the only album I listen to with that mindset. I'm a HUGE fan of Rhapsody in Blue, yet I love that for my own personal reasons - same with Be My Baby.

As for more modern music: Death Cab for Cutie has a song called 'You Can Do Better Than Me' - it's basically a Pet Sounds ripoff - It's not that good of a song, but I love it because it sounds just like a modern Brian Wilson production.

[EgoHanger1966]

I think that you've hit on a very worthwhile discussion subject. There are several different questions inside the one, really.

1) Do you listen to the music Brian listened to just because he listened to it?

2) Do you listen to music that is styled similar to Brian/Beach Boys music just because it sounds like that?

3) How does The Beach Boys music make you feel about other music?

I'm not into the Four Freshman at all, and I like a little Spector - so my answer to #1 is no. #2 presents a big YES for me. Just like rab said with his example, I listen and seek out things that have a Brian Wilson/Pet Sounds vibe. I went through a High Llamas phase (kind-of). I like The Explorers Club's first album. I think it's cool when you find an individual track that is a Brian Wilson sound pastiche or homage on an otherwise dull album.

As for #3...I recently realised after getting into the Beach Boys music heavily, that NO other music affects me the way that Brian Wilson's music does (and the others Beach Boys, too.....), but really I feel a strong connection with Brian and the way he sang, wrote, played, arranged, talked....everything. Lord knows why, it's not like he's my twin or my father had a glass eye or I have a balding cousin. But I feel it, and it's there. Even with the other artists I hold near and dear to my heart - I don't feel the same anymore compared to when I listen to "Don't Talk", or "Please Let Me Wonder", and my appreciation for Brian and The Beach Boys as people, as artists, and musicians, that makes me love things like "Ding Dang", or something from the 80s that has horrible production values.

Food for thought. (In this case, birthday cake and Norbit for thought!)

[JohnMill]

Not too much actually.  The closest I can think of is "Five For Fighting" and I don't listen to them (well John Ondrasik) all that much.  "Coldplay" really isn't Beach Boys influenced although some of Chris Martin's vocals can get up in that Beach Boys range.  So yeah not too much really, The Beach Boys are unique.

[Amanda Hart]

I've discovered quite a bit of music I wouldn't have otherwise if it wasn't for being into The Beach Boys. For me, it's more about artists that were influences for or connected to the band or members in some way than modern bands that cite The Beach Boys as influences. I usually come away disappointed when someone says "You like the Beach Boys, you should check out [insert current indie band here]".

[rab2591]

3) How does The Beach Boys music make you feel about other music?

I'm the same as you: No other music affects me like The Beach Boys...so most other music seems 'meh' to me - whereas when I put on a song like 'Cool Cool Water' or 'Little Honda' it's like euphoria. So in that regard, I enjoy most other music less now that I know how high the bar can be set.

And this has made me more critical about the validity of other artists' music: When I hear a pop song, no matter how good it sounds, I have to ask questions like 'Did they put their heart and soul into this? Do they really mean what they sing?' - the way in which Brian created Pet Sounds really made me realize what potential there is for other artists out there - so I'm more critical when listening to a new song on the radio.

[rab2591]

I've discovered quite a bit of music I wouldn't have otherwise if it wasn't for being into The Beach Boys.

I've discovered a lot of exotica music because of The Beach Boys (Les Baxter, Arthur Lyman).

Van Dyke Parks is another...his album Jump is one of my favs.

[Amanda Hart]

I've discovered quite a bit of music I wouldn't have otherwise if it wasn't for being into The Beach Boys.

I've discovered a lot of exotica music because of The Beach Boys (Les Baxter, Arthur Lyman).

Van Dyke Parks is another...his album Jump is one of my favs.

I probably would have never picked up something like Discover America if it hadn't been for the Beach Boys connection, but that's an album that is very different and that I genuinely enjoy.

I haven't gone down the path towards exotica but I've been really glad to be turned on to things like Randy Newman, Harry Nilsson, Leon Russell, Burt Bacharach and Spector.

[the captain]

Musicians' references to other musicians--or critics' comparisons and references--are definitely something that has helped me to discover loads of great music. Much of this doesn't necessarily sound like the initial musician in whom I was interested, either: I hadn't heard of Harry Nilsson or Van Dyke Parks except through the Beatles and the Beach Boys, but I love their music quite independently of those bands'. Those sorts of threads that weave through musical history are everywhere and honestly are loads of fun. (I'm thinking about jazz here, especially: start from one of Miles's great quintets and find the other members' albums and your collection is already amazing.)

But there was a period of several years--roughly '98-'02?--when I mistook similarity or relation for quality. The mere mention by Brian Wilson of some other musician, or vice versa, or even some writer dropping the name, sent me scurrying to the used CD stores. (This was an expensive habit in the days when free previews or downloads were less omnipresent and significantly slower.) Sure, some of the results were great: Of Montreal remains one of my favorite bands, though not for its 60sish stuff, and of course it was that E6 relation that got me to Neutral Milk Hotel's Aeroplane, which I consider among the all-time great albums not just of the past few decades, but ever. But did I really need to buy not one but three or four Minders albums? Or all those High Llamas albums? Or god-knows-what-others? Those times weren't remotely objective listening, they were sad attempts to a) relate to the musicians I loved most and b) bolster the catalogs of bands whose catalogs simply couldn't be bolstered. However much I may like that Apples in Stereo song, it is not a Beatles song. It just isn't. And at its best, it is a good imitation of something that is better represented by the original.

So that's where I am on the whole thing: there are plenty of great things to find by tracing those lines of influence, but for me it is best to impose some objectivity upon myself (if that's possible to do).

[cablegeddon]

Nothing really. I listen a little more to the four seasons now but I did listen to them before I discovered Beach boys.

[shelter]

There isn't a whole lot of music out there that really sounds like The Beach Boys, but they certainly had a lot of influence on pop music. I don't think that there are many practice spaces in the western world where nobody has ever said something like "Let's try to sing some harmonies on that part, something Beach Boys-ish", "I wrote this sunny, upbeat song, with a bit of a Beach Boys vibe" or "We should make this sound really sweet, kind of like God Only Knows or something".

[Alan Smith]

Influences can be explicit or implicit, and perhaps they act in a DNA like fashion; hence, you like Brian's stuff, you may also like the stuff he liked.  Or you may like someone's songs because they've been influenced by Brian, or his influences.  This is also combined/mixed with the myriad other influences a songwriter may call upon, consciously or subconsciouly.

Not to mention your own influences and sensibilities at play as you decide what's attractive v what's not.

I once loved the Pixies as much as the BB's, and I can find a lot of middle ground on an implicit level - but, when Frank Black explicitly turned his hand to "Hang onto your Ego" - it didn't really do it for me and I wish he'd left it alone.

I also love the Go-Betweens and find their asthetic and output BB-esque, although I have never seen them cite BW and associates in their list of influences.  They're also from my home town and were on during my formative years, so I feel an affinity in terms of shared experience which then bends my perceptions a little.

Sounds like you're doomed to a stint of the old "break-up", tho' - at least you can then segue into John Stewart's gear...