if what had happened to Brian Wilson happened to John Lennon

[dwtherealbb]

how would the Beatles have turned out? By this I mean what if during a 1964/1965 tour, John suffers a panic attack and decides to retire from touring. What happens then? Do the Beatles get an equivalent of Bruce Johnston (Jimmy Page maybe)? Then assume during Sgt Pepper, if John goes full on crazy and burns down the studio in paranoia, would someone like Page become a full-time member or do the beatles break up and there would be no MMT, White Album, Get Back or Abbey Road.

The reason I'm wondering is it seemed that the Beatles were very fragile as a four group band. If one of them had decided to quit, it would have ended the band. With the beach boys, if Brian decided to leave the scene, it didn't kill the band and they still made some music (albeit to less success then they initially had).

[Aegir]

well, all the Beatles quit touring. if John quit a year earlier they would've all just stopped.

the Beach Boys were nameless and faceless. no one in the audience knew Bruce Johnston wasn't the guy on the records, because... why wouldn't he? the Beatles were just as popular (if not more so) for their image as their music.

[hypehat]

Minus, y'know, getting shot, and it's almost the same story.

Man gets sick of the road and enjoys making records with weird sh*t on them, goes crazy on drugs and starts not making records, but writing songs, man. Withdraws from group. Has questionable side-projects with wife that no-one buys. Spends a lot of time at home. Takes heroin. Takes cocaine in Los Angeles with Harry Nilsson. Gets a mistress. Grows a beard. Puts on weight at home. Undergoes questionable therapy. Reluctantly performs shows busking on reputation. Does a covers album of 50's tunes. Wonders why Mike Love is following him around so much on holiday. Does questionable things onstage in nightclubs. Gets into fights. Has difficult late night TV appearances answering to his drug intake and his state of mind at any particular time in the last 15 years. Has to play Imagine in concert and doesn't look like he's having much fun. Estranged from their kids because of aforementioned boozing, snorting, and god knows what else. Phil Spector. Jumpsuits. Bad haircuts. That mid 70's album that is so under-rated, man. Decent line in sunglasses. Questionable onstage musicianship borne out by huge ensembles. The synthesiser - nice for you, hell on the listener. A back to basics approach to songwriting in the mid 70's. Excess. Rehab. Rolling Stone covers with iconic photography. Why did they release that greatest hits album? It's not the same since you stopped being good in 196X. Play the hits. Depression and crippling ponderings of self-worth as set to song. Isolation. Artistic rebirth viewed critically as dull or fucking shambles. People still asking about what you had for breakfast in 1964. The strange knowledge that that David Leaf kid will make poorly balanced documentary films about you.

Etc.

[rn57]

I'm old enough to remember when the Beatles arrived in the US...and what they say in some of the books is true. It really did take about three months to figure out which one was which, apart from Ringo, who could be distinguished by the fact he was shorter and had a bigger nose. Their look, in Jan. '64, was so completely alien that the only way to tell them apart was to notice that one was smart and sarcastic, another cute and charming, and a third guy was quiet. Therefore I have the feeling that if Lennon had bailed before the summer of '64 he could have been replaced by Billy J. Kramer and, with the right haircut, not many would have noticed the difference.

And it is true the Beatles were on edge when they first came here. In his 1969 Rolling Stone interview Spector talks about flying to NYC with them when they first came over. It was less than two months after JFK was shot and Phil claimed the Fab Four were actively afraid that someone would have a rifle trained on them as soon as they emerged from the plane. (Yes, he was talking about this 11 years before Lennon was shot.) Phil said the Beatles talked him into getting off the plane first, just to be on the safe side.

[rab2591]

A more intriguing question methinks: What if Brian Wilson had been shot instead of John Lennon?

(didn't someone do a rather interesting alternate-universe essay on Brian Wilson releasing SMiLE only to be assassinated or something? It was quite a fascinating read)

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Minus, y'know, getting shot, and it's almost the same story.

Man gets sick of the road and enjoys making records with weird sh*t on them, goes crazy on drugs and starts not making records, but writing songs, man. Withdraws from group. Has questionable side-projects with wife that no-one buys. Spends a lot of time at home. Takes heroin. Takes cocaine in Los Angeles with Harry Nilsson. Gets a mistress. Grows a beard. Puts on weight at home. Undergoes questionable therapy. Reluctantly performs shows busking on reputation. Does a covers album of 50's tunes. Wonders why Mike Love is following him around so much on holiday. Does questionable things onstage in nightclubs. Gets into fights. Has difficult late night TV appearances answering to his drug intake and his state of mind at any particular time in the last 15 years. Has to play Imagine in concert and doesn't look like he's having much fun. Estranged from their kids because of aforementioned boozing, snorting, and god knows what else. Phil Spector. Jumpsuits. Bad haircuts. That mid 70's album that is so under-rated, man. Decent line in sunglasses. Questionable onstage musicianship borne out by huge ensembles. The synthesiser - nice for you, hell on the listener. A back to basics approach to songwriting in the mid 70's. Excess. Rehab. Rolling Stone covers with iconic photography. Why did they release that greatest hits album? It's not the same since you stopped being good in 196X. Play the hits. Depression and crippling ponderings of self-worth as set to song. Isolation. Artistic rebirth viewed critically as dull or f***ing shambles. People still asking about what you had for breakfast in 1964. The strange knowledge that that David Leaf kid will make poorly balanced documentary films about you.

Etc.

That was awesome.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Therefore I have the feeling that if Lennon had bailed before the summer of '64 he could have been replaced by Billy J. Kramer and, with the right haircut, not many would have noticed the difference.

You mean on stage? If it was a complete switch people would have certainly noted the sudden massive dip in song quality.

[I. Spaceman]

Wonders why Mike Love is following him around so much on holiday. 

Now THAT was hilarious.

[Jukka]

What was it with aging rockers and jumpsuits in the 70's, anyway?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

A more intriguing question methinks: What if Brian Wilson had been shot instead of John Lennon?

(didn't someone do a rather interesting alternate-universe essay on Brian Wilson releasing SMiLE only to be assassinated or something? It was quite a fascinating read)

yeah it was..it was on the old Cabinessence site.

[RadBooley]

A more intriguing question methinks: What if Brian Wilson had been shot instead of John Lennon?

(didn't someone do a rather interesting alternate-universe essay on Brian Wilson releasing SMiLE only to be assassinated or something? It was quite a fascinating read)

yeah it was..it was on the old Cabinessence site.

Anyone have that backed up somewhere? I'd love to read it.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Go to surfermoon.com  and then 'Writings' and read

Tales Of An Alternative History

by Jason C Carnevale