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659393 Posts in 26418 Topics by 3755 Members - Latest Member: Joanne Figueroa July 07, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian announces new tour with Al and Blondie on: March 08, 2015, 07:14:08 AM
Tickets for the Greek show on sale! Watch out for the scalper sites like vividseats.com selling lousy seats with an extra zero or two at the end. HUMAN SCUM

Are these through P.A.S.S. memberships, or some other outlet that I'm missing?
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian announces new tour with Al and Blondie on: March 05, 2015, 07:37:21 PM
Hmm, the Greek, Jones Beach.  Pretty decent venues.

Mike Bruce and David couldn't sell out Jones Beach, in fact not even close and that was with Lovin Spoonful and The Rascals. I'll be interested to see if Brian, Al and Blondie can sell it out or at least do better attendance wise.

They're probably banking on quite a bit of press since the movie will be out 2 1/2 weeks out prior...
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: interesting article: \ on: February 27, 2015, 07:13:41 AM
Why do I think that even if Mike apologized in public for everything atrocious he's ever done to Cousin Brian - like some fans believe that he should - then the haters would say "I don't know, did he really mean it?"...

I think that the perceived success of C50 (from outside), went a long way with the fans in Brian's camp. The quality of the album, the smiles on-stage and when being interviewed...It seemed that they'd all moved on, so the fans finally could do. And then, they reverted back to their norm and all was clearly not forgiven.

They came into C50 as a career .283 hitter, and then at age 39 they inexplicably batted .357 for April through August before eventually coming back down to earth and hitting .220 for the remainder of the season, into the playoffs. The obvious explanation is that someone was on the juice.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: interesting article: \ on: February 26, 2015, 07:00:06 AM
Man, where to begin. For a band known for it's vocal ability, these guys are beyond tone deaf some times.  Sad

In addition to the fact that he directly contradicts himself from one paragraph to another, he also contradicts statements he made in 2012. And over what? A press release claiming that Brian intended to make a new Beach Boys album but ended up with a "solo album" (featuring 4 members of the Beach Boys, Matt and Jeff) because the band dissolved again? Which part of that is untrue? Wasn't there a Capitol/BBs recording contract that called for 3 albums or am I remembering incorrectly? I seem to recall someone suggesting that Brian's new contract was in essence an assumption of the remainder of the BB's contract.

More to the point, he ends with, "More on that in 2016 when you buy my book." Given the contradictions and seeming inaccuracies that a few have already noted, it seems less like Mike clearing things up and more like an opportunity to plug a book and make thinly veiled snipes at Joe and, presumably, Melinda.  

This passive aggressive behavior on both sides is really beneath the legacy of this band. What a shame. Where they could be working as a team to brandish their legacy (both creatively and financially), once again they fail to see the big picture.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: New Brian Wilson song just premiered on radio on: February 21, 2015, 08:42:45 AM

In order to try to side-step the semantics of "autotuned vs. other pitch correction vs. processed in some other form up the wazoo", I can comfortably say that Al's voice is relatively heavily processed on the tracks, as are most of the vocals on most Brian-related albums for quite some time. It's the way Brian likes it, it also appears to be how Joe Thomas likes it, etc. I think some of what we've heard has been autotune, and some hasn't. But the vocals are often quite processed, much moreso than what the vocals were run through in the "olden days."

I think "The Right Time" is a cool track, and I dig hearing Brian and Al together. Sounds like I'll probably dig the new album.

But I do encourage people to listen to "California Feelin'" off *Al's* solo album. THAT is what an unprocessed latter-day Al Jardine sounds like, and that vocal was probably cut 5-10 years ago. Great voice. LOTS of warmth. GREAT tone. Now before someone comments that even *that* is processed in some form, of course it is! It's probably not running straight into the board and then to the recorder with nothing in the chain at all. But it's about as unprocessed as anything BB-related can be. You can hear the little cracks and croaks and slight warble that one hears when most human voices sing. He sounds great. You can even clearly hear Al double-tracking the vocal near the end of the song. It still sounds natural, just doubled up. (In other words, the argument that double tracking strongly starts to mimic the "autotune" sound isn't necessarily the case.)

Why precisely Brian or Joe or whomever is not just letting Al sound like *that*, I don't know. I suppose when some or most of the rest of the stuff on an album is autotuned or processed relatively heavily, maybe they're just going for a consistent vocal sound.

There are less processed moments on the TWGMTR album, for instance. The vocal intro to "Pacific Coast Highway" is a good example of less processing. That more than any other vocal interlude on the album sounds, to me, like "The Beach Boys."

Again, not crapping on the new track or album. I'm probably more excited about this than any solo Brian set since "Smile" in 2004.

After listening to "The Right Time" yesterday, I was in a Brian solo mood, so I put on TLOS. Probably the first time I've listened to the LP front-to-back in 4 years. There is definitely processing on those vocals (you can especially hear it on sustained notes) but it - and the production overall - is so much more tasteful to my ears than what we've heard from No Pier Pressure so far or That's Why God Made The Radio. The production on these later releases is just so...slick and lifeless. I would much rather get a rougher version with a few bum notes then something so plastic sounding.

My personal preferences aside, I think that this kind of "perfection" is what Brian is going for. He chose to bring Joe Thomas back for a reason and I assume it's because this kind of adult contemporary sound was what he was after. At first I was thinking this whole album was just some marketing ploy by his management, with all the guest stars, but with Ray Lawlor's account and everything, it seems like Brian is driving this ship. I guess what I'm saying is, this is the way the artist wants it and that's really what it should be all about. Brian Wilson is all out of fucks to give and is making an album that sounds the way he thinks it should. And that's pretty cool, so I'm going to try to not let my hangups about the way it's produced get in the way of my enjoyment.

I think that sums it up quite nicely. This is what Brian wants to make, so he's making it. That said, I think his daughter has clearly had a major influence on this album (artwork, guest artists). Heck, even on the more modern tracks, the production sounds like the type of music a father might hear coming out of his teenage daughter's bedroom.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Fall Tour on: February 21, 2015, 08:16:35 AM
There's another, far simpler, reason: Mike doesn't like the recording process. Much prefers the stage to the studio, and having done a smidgen of studio work myself back in the day, I can't say I blame him.

It is also safe to so Mike is not a very creative person. Artists who compose/produce like being in the studio. Mike has not written anything substantial in ages - his last tour de force was SiP. If Mike had the formula to write/produce number one hits he would be in the studio day and night.

So he performs instead.


Not even number one hits but anything that would generate a comfortable amount of money. I'm sure that Mike does prefer the stage to the studio, but if he had any constant monetary incentive to record in the studio, he would've been recording albums on and off all these years.

Here's an opinion that's not likely to be very popular with certain members: Mike being able to do 150 rock and roll shows a year at age 73 is just as impressive as Brian's ability to put out great albums. And let's be honest, there are certain BW performances (not judging his band) that could be viewed the same way SIP is (aka, not good).

Here's my armchair shrink take on things:

I have no doubt that Mike would change his touring plans if it meant he could work creatively with Brian on his terms, with money having nothing to do with it. Why is that? A. He longs for his relationship with Brian to be how it was when they were younger and life was simpler B. Creatively, it would take a lot of pressure off of him. I think he knows that working with Brian would up his game and get the best out of him.

By the same token, after years of saying "no way", 2012 saw Brian as a Beach Boy again. Why? A. He longs for his relationship with the guys to be how it was when they were younger and life was simpler. B. From a performance standpoint, it took a lot of pressure off of him and he knew that touring at the level Mike was used to would up his game and get the best out of him.  
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Fall Tour on: February 19, 2015, 06:40:48 AM
This makes perfect sense to me. They have quite a bit to promote, spread out over a number of months. There's the US film premiere in a month, the album release a couple of weeks later, the PBS special, the wide(r) release of the film in early summer and book sales in the fall. I think that we'll see a small number of high profile gigs between now and L&M in the big US markets (NY, LA, maybe Chicago). I'm thinking that they a. want flexibility for promo availability b. want to see how the early numbers look on album sales and the film so that they can book the appropriately sized venues.

If things execute like they're hoping, Brian has a lot of heavy lifting ahead of him in the coming months. Might as well pace accordingly.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Why Not Use Auto-Tune? on: December 15, 2014, 07:36:19 AM
Billy, they used pitch collection on BW88 and OCA as well ... (Fairlight and Melodyne respectively.)

The Fairlight makes sense but didn't OCA come out (1995) before the first release of Melodyne (c. 2000, if memory serves)?
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: *Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread on: November 10, 2014, 08:20:02 AM
Apologies if this has been posted already. December Las Vegas date to be filmed for AXS TV special:

http://www.venetian.com/entertainment/shows/brian-wilson.html

Soundstage = Joe "MORE AUTOTUNE !!!" Thomas.

Brian's vocals are too sketchy in a live setting to realistically expect anyone to leave them alone in a live recording, so something--auto tune or rerecording or whatever--would be likely regardless.  (Not a knock on Brian, just the reality of "live" recording these past few, decades. And BW is on the shakier side of the pitch and confidence spectrum.) Hopefully the JT Delight has been retired for more tasteful treatment, though.

Realistically, the special isn't even going to have live vocals -- even processed ones. It will be BW and co miming to the album tracks. Mark my words.

So, we expect a whole show featuring a host of incredibly talented singers, that people will be paying to see, will be mimed the whole way through? It's more trouble to have the band sync'ed up to pre-recorded tracks and have the singers miming than it would be to simply have the only shaky vocalist of the group (Brian) overdub new vocals in any shaky spots in post-production.  
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - \ on: October 26, 2014, 06:21:56 PM
Would love to hear this track! Smiley
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike & Carl in Late 1997 Question/Discussion on: October 26, 2014, 02:15:39 PM
Andrew, the 29th cannot be correct. I attended either the 28th or 29th show and Carl did not play that night.

Then you attended the 28th - I'll amend. Carl's last show was definitely the 29th.

Not questioning the validity of this assertion, but just wondering what the sources are for the 29th being the last show for Carl. So he played the 26th, 27th, missed the 28th, played again the 29th?
It does seem a little odd that he would miss a single day. Even odder that it was in the middle of a group of shows. it makes sense that he would not be able to make the full grouping of shows, but you'd think he'd miss the last day(or two). He was sick enough to miss a show, and be ok for the very next one?  Brow

FWIW, when I saw Al at Resorts back in June of this year, he commented on-stage that the last time they had played that room was Carl's final show.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson - \ on: October 26, 2014, 09:02:17 AM
For those in Europe it is on Spotify:

http://open.spotify.com/track/63C74sXSFFjmX64ZgD75X8

Don't care for this guy's performance but the song is nice and Brian sounds good. Ah well.

U.S., too.

http://open.spotify.com/local/Peter+Hollens+%26+Brian+Wilson/Peter+Hollens/Our+Special+Love/225

This doesn't working in the U.S., it's just a link to the track being stored locally on your computer. Thanks, though!
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows BBC Music ad on: October 10, 2014, 03:43:57 PM

Far as I'm aware the official UK singles chart is announced Sunday - is if on BBC Radio One at 7pm.

The single is, however, already at the top of the Amazon Uk singles chart.

Thanks John - that must be what they're referring to.

If it's out on Sunday then they're probably at a point where they can project based on total sales so far for each artist in the top tier.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise on: October 09, 2014, 11:24:47 AM
Speaking on non-board-affairs here in my own words, I wanted to address the issue of those people coming here to participate who are close to the band either through personal or business relationships.

What strikes me is that over the decades specific to the Beach Boys (but obviously including a large variety of bands) there have been fan gatherings, conventions, meets, etc. which often featured a Q&A session or a panel discussion with people who have personally known or worked with the band. Make a list of names through the years, everyone from people who worked with them to people who have worked with the music or archives, collectors, historians, authors, whatever the case.

They're at these events to interact with fans, take questions, share some of the "insider" stories and information that they experienced but which may not have been published or told widely in public. Stories from the road, from the studio, the "inside scoop" on some event that fans know of but may not know the full details or backstory, whatever the case. So they share this with groups of fans, who depending on the event might even pay to attend and participate in these sessions with these people. These are the "honored guests" at such events.

One example happening this weekend: Mark Linett is a featured presenter at the AES convention this weekend, and will be playing tracks from Pet Sounds and discussing working with multitracks as part of his presentation. Attendees will be able to hear directly from the man who has done more hands-on work on those tapes in the past 30+ years than anyone, and they'll attend to hear what he has to say about the work he has done, as well as to hear the tracks themselves as presented by the guy who knows them perhaps as well as anyone.

So fans basically pay money to attend these various fan conventions and conferences, they go to the Q&A and panel discussions, they go to hear a presentation about the music from the guys who actually worked on the tapes, they'll listen as someone who toured with them or worked with them in some capacity tells stories from those days...

How does that square up with some of the posts in this particular thread regarding "honored guests"? I can't help but read it as a few members of the fanbase will pay money to buy books, magazines, DVD's, whatever else to read and discover this information, yet when people who can offer the same level of information choose to come on this board to share it, there shouldn't be at least a higher level of basic respect given them?

Let me pose a question. If you were in the audience where Billy Hinsche or anyone else similarly connected to the band was giving a Q&A session, answering questions and sharing personal stories with the fans, and someone were to get up and start challenging them with phrases like "how do you know?" or asking questions directly in conflict with what was already said, what do you think would happen at that seminar/presentation/session?

I'm guessing the people who may have paid money to see and hear that "insider" whoever he or she may be share information with fans would get rightly pissed off that someone was challenging in that way. That person may be asked to leave, or in another case the presenter may finally throw up their hands and leave in frustration.

The latter has happened on this board in the past, and when it did and if it should again it is a damned shame, because a firsthand eyewitness or participant who came here to answer questions and interact with fans by choice and not asking for something in return is no longer here, and the larger fanbase loses out in favor of challenging or pushing some opinions or personal beefs.

Who wins? If a fan at a convention were to get up and start throwing challenges at Billy Hinsche or Stephen Desper or Alan Boyd or Mark Linett or Marilyn or anyone else, who wins if that person A. Quits and leaves or B. Decides not to return in the future? The larger fanbase who did come to hear the "insiders" talk loses, and that's *definitely* not what I ever want to see happen here.

This board has a really, really good mix of people close to the band who choose to post...for free. No ticket, no convention badge necessary to get in. Musicians, journalists, historians, archivists, collectors, personal friends, etc...bottom line, it can be accepted that in many cases there is information through these people which the majority of fans do not have but would probably be interested to know. I think there is or should be at least an acknowledgement of that fact along with perhaps an even greater sense of awareness in how certain things are offered as questions or comments to those people. The fact is, there are people who do know more than most about some of these issues, the other fact is some of them choose to come here to answer questions, talk, interact, etc. That is a strength of this board, a major positive that should be celebrated. Yet some are challenging the whole notion of it. It's hard to understand.

Just consider what the protocol might be at a public convention if someone were to get up to the Q&A mic and start firing off challenges and questions to an invited guest, or a featured presenter, and consider applying at least a little bit of that same protocol here on the board. Even if it isn't specifically for the so-called "insiders" personally, why it wouldn't be I can't figure out anyway, but at least for the majority of fans here who want to hear more of the inside stories and personal stuff.

My 2 cents.

Well said! And on that topic, if anyone is going to AES in LA this weekend, I'm sure more than a few of us would like to hear how the PS Q&A/presentation goes. :-)
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise on: October 09, 2014, 10:44:20 AM
I think a clarification is necessary with the issue of honored guests, as it has been mentioned in this thread. Ray declined the honored guest status and preferred to post as a regular board member, and that was the case as well with other board members who have personal connections to the group and would/could be honored guests but chose not to. Those decisions are up to the individuals and their requests are honored.

Thanks for clarifying! :-)
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise on: October 09, 2014, 10:20:25 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.
And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.
Some valid points, but even if Ray wasn't who he is (a very close, caring and informed friend of BW), your posts had a bit of an edge to them.

GF, perhaps it might be appropriate to change Ray's status to "Honored Guest"? Not that "Honored Guests" can't be questioned on their statements or claims, but for people that don't follow every thread and aren't familiar with each member of the board, it might be helpful. Perhaps a required "Honored Guest" signature that explains who they are relative to the band? Ex. "I was the band's live sound engineer from 1982-1989". Bio sections can helpful for that but the reality is, in the context of reading a thread, a short signature would go a long way.

Thoughts?

The concept of "Honored Guest" works for me.  Ray is reasoned, has a tremendous frame of reference, and experiential background commensurate with that category.  

This board is "high octane" for sure with all the passion for the music.  I've said it before, that I "lurked" a couple of years before diving into the shark tank.  But the resources and experts are second-to-none.  It is still a great place to learn and exchange info.    Wink

High octane is an understatement! Surely the "honored guest" status is a personal choice but I think that a little bio/disclaimer in a signature may be appropriate for certain posters, many of whom post and respond very strongly (and rightfully so) about certain topics. Whether this is due to their honored guest status (ie likely better informed than 99% of us) or other personal/professional experience related to the band, or the music industry in general, an occasional "bio" signature may be helpful, even for the non honored guests.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows BBC Music ad on: October 09, 2014, 08:30:54 AM
I don't think it is perfect - the original is so good that it is pretty difficult to improve upon -  but the point of it is to show the different styles that BBC music can offer and putting together a visually exciting video in the process whilst also hopefully raising lots of money for charity.
Yes, context matters a great deal in this video. Every cameo was chosen not necessarily for their merit, but because of a connection between them and the network. It's an ad, not an accolade.

It's an ad, not an accolade

Yeah, having a Beach Boys song like God Only Knows being featured like this doesn't do much for the ol' "legacy", does it?  Wink





I've noticed a bit more licensing of the BB's music of late. Do we think this is a case of "Wow, 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' would be great for our new mobile phone ad!"? Is this a result of heightened awareness from C50 among the general populace? Or is Capitol, BRI or the publishing house being a bit more active in pursuing these opportunities? Perhaps part of a run-up to "Love & Mercy" being in the theaters? It would seem logical if i was Brian's team to want to start getting the songs out there to "remind" people what he's done, before they spend $8.50 and 2 1/2 hours of their time learning about his life.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian's Stock Continues To Rise on: October 09, 2014, 08:22:28 AM
Some advice moving forward: "Job", I'd suggest taking a pause before directly challenging someone the way you did here. At least know the story and the people before starting an argument or challenge like that, and if you're not sure take a few minutes to find out before throwing down. At least watch the beginning of that YouTube clip of the Wembley show where Brian dedicated the show to Melinda and Ray. Then consider posting a mea culpa of some kind, moving forward.

And I would suggest that, when I simply ask a question about how someone can be so sure about his statements, I might receive something other than a snide remark from that person and a board full of venom from the rest of you.  Get over yourselves.

Even so, the fact still remains that not even the boys themselves seem to know how anything went down half of the time, so such global proclamations about anything are questionable at best...no matter how "in" you are.  Get over yourself.

Declaring that two shows you were at were the best of an entire tour is 1) subjective, and 2) quite possibly not even subjectively the case if one hadn't experienced all of them.  Get over yourself.

Regarding the requests I made MONTHS ago, which were NEVER even addressed with me then: I got the picture quite some time ago.  Do you rub your dog's nose in it 12 hours after he dumps on the floor?  Again, get over yourselves.

The bully factor around here is off the charts.

Some valid points, but even if Ray wasn't who he is (a very close, caring and informed friend of BW), your posts had a bit of an edge to them.

GF, perhaps it might be appropriate to change Ray's status to "Honored Guest"? Not that "Honored Guests" can't be questioned on their statements or claims, but for people that don't follow every thread and aren't familiar with each member of the board, it might be helpful. Perhaps a required "Honored Guest" signature that explains who they are relative to the band? Ex. "I was the band's live sound engineer from 1982-1989". Bio sections can helpful for that but the reality is, in the context of reading a thread, a short signature would go a long way.

Thoughts?

19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: God Only Knows BBC Music ad on: October 08, 2014, 04:13:31 AM
Not that we think he needs any more, but this should definitely give BW some more cool points in the general public's eyes.

Here's to a number 1 single!!!

Yeah, how ironic. He wanted to get on the radio, but...with no pier pressure.

Gotta start somewhere so reminding the world that you wrote "God Only Knows" with a little help from the BBC is a pretty smart way to do it. Potential #1 single in the UK that should get major play on tv and radio, a (so far) critically acclaimed biopic about to launch and a star studded solo album.  If ever a 72 year old Brian Wilson was going to get new music played on the radio, this would be the time!
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: *Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread on: October 02, 2014, 09:20:49 AM
Brian Wilson camp logic, let's completely skip the November/December shopping season and release the album in January when everybody is broke and doesn't want to buy sh*t.  LOL

Oh my.
Actually, Camp Capitol

Exactly. Also, I don't think that Brian Wilson gets casual holiday sales the same way "The Beach Boys" do. More likely, it's being pushed back to coincide with the biopic to maximize coverage.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Pile Up In California on: October 02, 2014, 07:51:27 AM
I'm sorry, but IMO whether he has the license legally or not, no matter how long he had done things his own way, used the name (no matter what dues were paid to use it) how used to it he was, etc., when the other original members, esp. THE original member most responsible for the creation of the music and the brand (any arguments to the contrary are simply benighted, no matter what his lyrical, vocal and performance contributions), asks, along with one or two other original members to remain in the current incarnation of the group, said cousin is OBLIGATED by any number of criteria to oblige him, END OF STORY, NO EXCUSES.

So you're stating that, in both the BB world and the real world, no contract is worth the paper it's written on if one or more of the founders of said institution decides otherwise ? To call such a mindset demented is being exceedingly polite. It's actually fucking insane, even for the BB cosmos. Reminds me of the French attitude to the EU - they sign the treaties, then do what they damn well want to. Suppose you and I formed an alliance to write a book, agreed to split everything 50/50... and then when it was a best seller, I told you "sorry, I'm keeping everything" ? In your world, you'd have to roll over and comply.

And, uh, why do Paul & Ringo get a free pass ? Just because they're the surviving Beatles ?

Signing the contracts only gives them the right to do whatever they want, not the right to determine how posterity or objective (as much as possible) observers view their decisions. They may regret their decisions later as well, obviously. In Brian Wilson's case, if he as The Beach Boys (as Dennis said) and not just another "messenger", hypothetically were to regret a decision to license the name and wants to be part of any band that would bill itself as the BBs, ML should respect that since, despite his immense, unique and invaluable contributions to the group, as many have said without Brian he would be pumping gas or its rough equivalent.

McCartney doesn't bill himself as The Beatles anyway, so a free pass wasn't necessary anyway in retrospect.

To be clear, I don't think Mike would object to Brian "sitting in" with his version of "The Beach Boys" for some shows, I think he'd object to Brian saying "Well, if I'm going to sit in with you for these shows, I need the following members of my band on-stage and X, Y and Z to happen."

Separately, one point I'd like to address is that people keep coming back to the argument that "Mike's tour is more profitable than C50", a statement that is made based on suggestions from Mike that his leaner touring outfit doesn't cost as much to tour with. Even with the larger tour buses, bigger bands, etc. that C50 commanded, I truly find that hard to believe. But let's just move forward with that assumption since Mike would presumably have no reason to lie about this. Does anyone really believe that Mike's tour makes BRI more money than C50 did?

I think you’re right. It’s quite possible if not likely that BRI members collectively netted more money on C50 than from a typical year of Mike’s band touring. The only idea behind the theory that Mike personally could have made less on C50 is that even if it netted more money overall after the increased overheard costs and whatnot, far more funds would probably be split up at least for Brian and Al. Those two guys were surely paid out far more money from the tour (whether or not an “equal” cut; I would imagine Brian got as big of a cut as Mike, perhaps not Al; just guessing) than their 25% of the likely 15 or 20%, which would be overall roughly 4 to 5%, of Mike’s tour proceeds.

But again, talking outside of the money they make per show, C50 undoubtedly did far more to boost album sales, download sales, licensing and radio/streaming royalties, than the status quo does on a yearly basis. And again, that's without the added revenue of TWGMTR, the two DVDs, the live album and the merch being sold to larger houses.

But just for the sake of playing devil's advocate, let's look at the per show argument. Even with the leaner touring outfit (local back line, fewer buses, flying coach, smaller guest lists, smaller catering, etc.), do we really think that M&B make more off of a $100K fee than C50, which likely commands at least $375K-$500K, probably going closer to double or triple that in the larger markets? I would bet that the merch sales alone probably pay for the difference in back line, catering and guest lists. I dunno, I just find it hard to imagine that C50 was spending that recklessly that they were negating higher fees, higher merch sales and all of the other revenue streams mentioned previously.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Pile Up In California on: October 02, 2014, 07:01:24 AM
I'm sorry, but IMO whether he has the license legally or not, no matter how long he had done things his own way, used the name (no matter what dues were paid to use it) how used to it he was, etc., when the other original members, esp. THE original member most responsible for the creation of the music and the brand (any arguments to the contrary are simply benighted, no matter what his lyrical, vocal and performance contributions), asks, along with one or two other original members to remain in the current incarnation of the group, said cousin is OBLIGATED by any number of criteria to oblige him, END OF STORY, NO EXCUSES.

So you're stating that, in both the BB world and the real world, no contract is worth the paper it's written on if one or more of the founders of said institution decides otherwise ? To call such a mindset demented is being exceedingly polite. It's actually fucking insane, even for the BB cosmos. Reminds me of the French attitude to the EU - they sign the treaties, then do what they damn well want to. Suppose you and I formed an alliance to write a book, agreed to split everything 50/50... and then when it was a best seller, I told you "sorry, I'm keeping everything" ? In your world, you'd have to roll over and comply.

And, uh, why do Paul & Ringo get a free pass ? Just because they're the surviving Beatles ?

Signing the contracts only gives them the right to do whatever they want, not the right to determine how posterity or objective (as much as possible) observers view their decisions. They may regret their decisions later as well, obviously. In Brian Wilson's case, if he as The Beach Boys (as Dennis said) and not just another "messenger", hypothetically were to regret a decision to license the name and wants to be part of any band that would bill itself as the BBs, ML should respect that since, despite his immense, unique and invaluable contributions to the group, as many have said without Brian he would be pumping gas or its rough equivalent.

McCartney doesn't bill himself as The Beatles anyway, so a free pass wasn't necessary anyway in retrospect.

To be clear, I don't think Mike would object to Brian "sitting in" with his version of "The Beach Boys" for some shows, I think he'd object to Brian saying "Well, if I'm going to sit in with you for these shows, I need the following members of my band on-stage and X, Y and Z to happen."

Separately, one point I'd like to address is that people keep coming back to the argument that "Mike's tour is more profitable than C50", a statement that is made based on suggestions from Mike that his leaner touring outfit doesn't cost as much to tour with. Even with the larger tour buses, bigger bands, etc. that C50 commanded, I truly find that hard to believe. But let's just move forward with that assumption since Mike would presumably have no reason to lie about this. Does anyone really believe that Mike's tour makes BRI more money than C50 did?

Let's consider the entire financial impact for BRI, not just the per night rate and ticket sales. Consider everything. The C50 tour resulted in two DVDs and a double live album, which is far more in one year than Mike has done since 1998 on the whole. Then you throw in the merch (which is being sold each night to much larger audiences), the sales for TWGMTR, "50 Big Ones" and the uptick in sales that the individual songs, albums and other compilations probably saw. We've also got radio and streaming royalties, song licensing (commercials, movies, etc.), book interest, etc. Plus, the increased press on a local, national and international level.

So considering all of that, how could M&B touring make more money for BRI than a C50 configuration? Heck, even outside of BRI I'd guess that Bruce and David made more money from a royalty standpoint than they had in recent years. So, unless I'm wildly off base, than the money argument in support of the status quo really needs to be taken out of this discussion. Even if the individual shows are not as profitable for Mike in a full band arrangement, this could be dealt with very easily.

If they presented specific albums or arrangements ("BBs present 'Pet Sounds'", "The Beach Boys: Unplugged", "BBs present Smile", etc.) in the form of 5-7 show residencies in the larger markets that can support that, they could increase ticket prices, play higher end venues, vastly reduce their transportation and back line expenses, and put less wear and tear on their bodies. These unique shows would also result in the ability to release something like "Pet Sounds Live" (DVD, Blu-Ray, CD, Download), peddle more one-off merch, etc. In other words, MAKE MORE MONEY FOR BRI! Hell, they could also use these shows to bring the kids into the fold (a la "California Saga") should they have any desire to allow the family business to continue...Here's an idea - they could dub that series of shows "Beach Boys Family and Friends"! Smiley

And yes, they could play far fewer shows in this configuration than C50 or M&B and still come out on top. C50 was lumped into a 6-month period (rehearsals, prep, etc.). They'd be better served doing the residencies in the winter months, take a few months off in between (in which they can all book their corporate gigs or smaller shows) and then get together for a June - August summer tour.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Pile Up In California on: September 30, 2014, 06:08:16 PM

Too Westbury oldies show in my opinion. I'd rather a shorter show than that.


As a Long Islander, that line alone justified this entire thread. Thanks, Howie! Smiley
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian and Al show in CA this Saturday - Special Ticket Offer on: September 29, 2014, 06:15:42 AM
Brian sounding good on My Sweet Lord last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evVTvTrcXCo

(apologies if this is posted elsewhere)

Other than losing it a little towards the end (which lets be honest, that song goes on about 2 minutes too long), I thought he sounded much stronger vocally than he has in awhile. Seemed like there was a bit more "oomph" to his delivery than there has been recently.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Jeff Foskett speaks about leaving Brian's band and joining Mike's band on: September 26, 2014, 12:50:05 PM
Donny: I agree, it comes down to the live shows and related activities. At the same time, I believe there exists an even larger decision-making "power" through BRI over those same issues, which I think was a factor when the original agreements were drawn up. I believe a board vote could effectively strip the "license" from whomever is holding it if it is found that something as basic as the content of the setlists or their presentation is not representing the brand in a positive way. I could be wrong.

I think one thing to consider might be the possible politics involved in all of this. If BRI is a corporate board that relies on votes to make the big decisions (and the little ones)...if we could assume without knowing directly that BRI is structured and run like most corporate boards, business structures small or large, and even political structures like the House or Senate, before a vote there are any number of power grabs, deals, promises, etc. The "I'll give you this if you vote for this" kind of scenarios that involve what is basically offering a vote in exchange for something in return.

And most of that is pretty much a case of throwing power in someone's favor or against them by way of a yes or no vote. That's where the politicking and insider deals lead into the power of a single vote, yes or no.

The contrived or scripted alliances of a TV show like "Survivor" or "Big Brother" played with real money and people's futures, in other words.  Smiley  Vote with me, I'll have your back.

There's also the very real possibility that money wins at the end of the day. Brian, Al, and Carl's family make money when Mike tours. Mike tours a lot more and plays larger venues than Brian or Al alone ... or even Brian, Al and David together. An argument could be made that any conflicting tours or shows occurring in the same region cut into BRI's profits from Mike's shows. Mike might even make more money for BRI than the C50 tour did. Since the Beach Boys are a corporate entity, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they behaved like one!

Here's the thing of it though...If they were billed as "Mike Love and Bruce Johnston of the Beach Boys" they'd play far smaller venues, and probably have more trouble booking shows. Conversely, if BAD were able to tour as the BBs, they could play larger shows and would certainly see better ticket sales than they do as "BAD". We definitively know that as the full lineup they'd have no problem playing much larger venues, which goes to a bigger point: Does anyone question that C50 likely did far more for album sales, DVD sales, and merch sales than Mike's BBs do? So, while Mike's tour may be more profitable as a touring entity, C50 probably made BRI significantly more money.

Think even bigger picture...Instead of talking about the recent reissues, we've got interviews talking about Wilson drug problems, legalities of how people can bill themselves and the general fallout of C50. Shouldn't "50 years of Fun, Fun, Fun" coincide with some larger promotion from BRI? Special digital releases? 7" reissues? Wouldn't it be great if the band did full album performances of the new albums getting the vinyl reissue treatment currently? These guys leave so much money on the table, let alone opportunity for artistic expression...
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