[Pet Sounds]

This summer, more than once, I posited to those who would be involved the notion of a Pet Sounds 50th anniversary celebration  - hereafter referred to as PS50 - which included another full-on reunion tour (I claim no credit, Helen Keller could see that one coming), and the response was negative, and surprisingly heatedly so. My strong impression is that given the current situation (arising from the summer nonsense), no more whole band onstage reunions. Ever.

That said, these are The Beach Boys: never say never, as the usual rules don't apply. We got The Smile Sessions, we got C50.

Do you think that any of the negativity might also stem from the fact that a "PS50" tour would inevitably result in the press rehashing of the C50 ending and talking about "BRIAN WILSON'S MAGNUM OPUS, PET SOUNDS". In addition to the fact that they'd all be two years older, I gotta imagine that it'd be pretty exhausting dealing with all of that nonsense when doing promotion. If I'm Mike Love, other than cementing the band's artistic legacy, I see very little appealing about a worldwide PS50 tour.

Perhaps instead of a full blown tour they'd be better served doing some short residencies at the appropriate venues in the big markets (LA, NY, London, etc). As a NY'er, I'm envisioning 4 or 5 shows at Carnegie Hall or Radio City with a full orchestra, take a few weeks off and then move to the next market. That'd drop the touring expenses pretty dramatically (local back line would be much cheaper for multiple nights, no need for buses, etc.) and it would also give them the opportunity to build up the prestige for the shows and charge appropriate ticket prices.

I'd rather have the BBs sing the lyrics in a lower key, or slightly off key, rather than the robotic patchwork of autotune and Jeff that we ended up with.

I don't care if a word or a whole line is off, i don't care if the falsetto is shaky. These are 70 year old human beings, not Beyonce. i don't expect a flawless performance, i expect the Beach Boys to SING the majority of their own songs.

It's a missed opportunity they didn't take a production approach similar to Postcard from California in it's final (current?) form - perhaps there is some auto-v jiggery-pokery on PFC, but if so, can't say I've noticed.

The production of Al's album is absolutely fantastic - with a very crisp sound to the engineering/mixing. He's using some seriously high quality gear but for the most part going for a very dry sound. The final production (as well as the ad-libbed vocal parts) give it a major "performance" vibe, which works quite well with the songs, arrangements, etc. Looking at TWGMTR, I can't think of any way that this could've been applied to Brian's arrangements, certainly not the second half, without strongly affecting the emotional impact.

Producing TWGMTR like APCFC would be like taking this:



and presenting it as:



My apologies that the perspective is different on the two.

My query on the TWGMTR album is different again. Listening closely to the guys singing, there seem to be several instances of missing consonants and vowels, as if much (clumsy, digital) cutting and slicing of different takes had to be done to achieve the final product. Any one else hear this?

Comping takes doesn't really involve much in the way of "slicing" per say anymore, at least not in the manner most people envision.

For the past 5+ years now, most major DAWs (Pro Tools, Logic, etc.) have had comp lanes which basically allow you to see a stack of takes, each in separate lanes and comp them together in about 30 seconds. You can click and drag over different sections in each lane and the master lane will reflect each part that you've highlighted, playing in one seamless stream. To make these edits clean, the DAW will introduce very light cross fading at each "merge", to keep from having any pops if the edit isn't done at a zero cross point. Unless the engineer manually changes the X-Fade time or uses two totally unrelated takes, you shouldn't really run into any clipped notes. This editing method is used on vocals, drums, guitars, you name it. It's pretty fool proof, so anything you're hearing was most likely purposeful in delivery or a result of specific mix decisions.

What trips me out about Brian these days (and really for the past 15 years plus) is that he could sing in concert and sound a bit shaky, but clips of him playing the piano and singing (to demonstrate a song, not for performance) and sound good as hell. Most likely because he's more relaxed. Frame of mind is everything. Likely a reason too why he sounded better during the C50 shows from June on than he did at any of his solo shows before or since, even nailing falsettos the sadly few times he tried.

It could all be down to hearing. When he's playing piano by himself with no band and no PA he probably has no pitch problem whatsoever. With the C50 shows, for the majority of the shows, he was far more physically removed from the band than he is for his solo shows, which meant his monitor mix would be much easier for him to hear than it would typically be.

If there are any AES members here, Mark is going to be presenting Pet Sounds at the AES Convention in LA, which is held from 10/9 -10/12:

Raw Tracks: Pet Sounds — A Master Class by three-time Grammy-winner Mark Linett.
Renowned engineer/producer and three-time Grammy winner Mark Linett will discuss, analyze and deconstruct track by track two songs from the Beach Boys seminal Pet Sounds album: "God Only Knows" and "Wouldn’t It Be Nice." Linett has worked extensively with The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson for over 25 years, including the first true stereo and 5.1 mix of Pet Sounds, and has also worked with an array of artists including Jimi Hendrix, Randy Newman, Rickie Lee Jones, Jane’s Addiction, Eric Clapton and The Red Hot Chili Peppers.

http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/article/aes-to-roar-with-raw-tracks/18342

@ Ebb and Flow

I get fed up with these criticisms because they are downright pointless at the moment. Take VDPs hair: as I said above, no one has any idea if the hairdressers had done their job yet. You complained that the guys weren't posing on the woodie correctly - when you have no idea if the cameras were rolling or not. You claim "it wouldn't have been that difficult to get it right" (regarding the woodie) yet you have no idea what the budget, availability, timing was like for this project.

I really doubt it was a question of budget.  I can't imagine a yellow model A ford truck being any more or less expensive to rent for a day than the woodie they ended up using, though I'm not an expert in such things.  It's really a question of whether they cared enough to match the vehicle on the cover or not, which they clearly didn't.  I also think they might have thought a stereotypical woodie station wagon matched the Beach Boys early image more than reality.  And yes, I'm going to assume cameras were rolling when a bunch of dudes are posing for the cameras in costume.  Why wouldn't I?  It's not even really possible to pose the same way on that vehicle, which they probably found out on set.

I still think there's a difference between something like somebody's haircut and a scene that is specifically referencing a piece of visual iconography like an album cover.  Imagine a Beatles movie where they replicated the Rubber Soul photoshoot and they were all posed differently or any aspect of it was off.  Do you think that would fly?  Maybe The Beach Boys aren't deemed important enough to warrant that sort of attention to detail?

Again, I don't think the inaccuracies will have any bearing on the overall quality of the film, but I also don't think it's something that should be brushed aside as just something movies do.  Usually when movies are tasked to recreate certain moments that are based on a photograph or something iconographic they stick to the details.

I guess we can go back to discussing how a movie very few of us have seen is going to be nominated for best picture.

While Model A's are relatively available, especially given that they're 85 years old at this point, that doesn't mean that they were able to easily locate a truck in the window they were working with, let alone with the ok from the owner to paint and mock it up as needed for "authenticity" purposes.

So he says the band is better than the Beach Boys and he played only Beach Boys songs last week.

ehhh...Right. Got it.

I believe he meant his band is made up of better musician's than Mike's "Beach Boys", indicating that they'll be able to perform the BB songs better than Mike's band.

Definitely true!

Who drummed on the C50 tour ?

Are you saying Mike's drummer is better than Brian's? Because that doesn't really have anything to do with which band has better musicians on the whole (Brian's).
But kudos to Mike for winning the "best beach boys drummer" contest.

That was a nice thing for Brian to say, as he continues to accept the checks that keep comin' in from the outstanding performances of that other band. Swell guy....

Sure, but getting right to the heart of that, even conceding that Mike wrote a lot of lyrics, people don't go out in huge numbers to see poetry readings; without Brian's music...

How about this...Should Mike stop accepting checks from TSS or TWGMTR? He's openly criticized both projects.

So he says the band is better than the Beach Boys and he played only Beach Boys songs last week.

ehhh...Right. Got it.

I believe he meant his band is made up of better musician's than Mike's "Beach Boys", indicating that they'll be able to perform the BB songs better than Mike's band.

Definitely true!

Who drummed on the C50 tour ?

Are you saying Mike's drummer is better than Brian's? Because that doesn't really have anything to do with which band has better musicians on the whole (Brian's).
But kudos to Mike for winning the "best beach boys drummer" contest.

Sounds like he's suggesting that Stamos is better than Mike D'Amico...

So he says the band is better than the Beach Boys and he played only Beach Boys songs last week.

ehhh...Right. Got it.

I believe he meant his band is made up of better musician's than Mike's "Beach Boys", indicating that they'll be able to perform the BB songs better than Mike's band.

"...some pundits are already predicting it could be his next masterpiece.  Wilson said he wrote the songs and then found the artists that could perform them best.  'We lined up a few guest artists,' he said. 'We looked them up and checked them out and they checked out good.'...He considered using a recording he and Beck did of the Irish ballad, 'Danny Boy,' but, 'We didn't put it in the album. It just didn't fit the album very well.' Asked when the other material he recorded with Beck will be released, he said, 'Not soon.'"

This part brings out the cynic in me. 

Didn't Brian specifically want to work with Beck?  Now apparently all of that work has gone out the window.

Be thankful that Brian is being picky about what is going on this album....it says volumes about how much he cares about this project. The Beck collaboration didn't work out - if it's bad material I'm glad it won't end up on the album.

And ditto, Guitarfool - great post!

It's possible that they also decided to shelve it after seeing Jeff's reaction to it potentially being on the record. Don't worry, we'll undoubtedly hear the material at some point in the future. There's money to be made and if Capitol paid for it to be recorded, they'll want to maximize the return on their investment as much as possible in the future.

Another legendary and only partially previously released set of lost 60s recordings is now officially going to be released - 6 CDs of every salvageable track of the Basement Tapes including fragments and songs in poor fidelity but all remastered to optimize the sound quality.  Why does Dylan get this sort of archival release and the Beach Boys only release limited and edited tapes of the Smile Sessions?  Excluding the bonus GV disc, we have three and a half (not counting the Frankenstein reconstruction tracks) CDs of sessions.  That could have been 8 discs!  why not release it all?  They have the 2 disc version for those not interested in everything or for whom the price would be prohibitive.  Give us all the test mixes, all the instrumental takes, all the acetates - I want it ALL!

Incidentally there is a 2 CD edition of the. Basement Tapes being released also for those who don't want to take the plunge on the box.  Maybe BRI could hire Jeff Rosen to manage the BB archival releases from now on?

Some people release everything and some people don't. Given the comments Mike has made about how many discs were released being a bit much (paraphrasing), and knowing how Brian has felt about the project over the past 40 years, I don't think that we really have the archivists to "blame". 

[imo]

Al Jardine's description of the "Waves of Love" debacle is truly sad.


(and delusional, imo)

Which part of it is delusional?

Everytime David plays with Mike his presence and playing remind Mike of the early days when everything about the band was young and new and exciting. It was no doubt one of the best times of Mike's life. He could not have praised Dave higher than what he said.

That's a more reasonable explanation to me, although the comments about Stamos, as compared to the limited praise for David, struck me a little bit as overcompensating. I seem to recall some folks going to the recent JB show and mentioning that David was barely even acknowledged up on-stage, especially compared to John's presence. That's kind of the thing that rubs me (and others) the wrong way and that's not in any way meant as a dig towards John.

Just to stir things up a bit more, here's an excerpt of a post Mike made a few hours ago on Facebook:

"We had a full stage these last few shows. You may even say a 'full house.' It's always so great to have our dear friend of nearly 30 years John Stamos out with us. His energy, charisma and musicianship add so much. And to watch the crowd respond is quite a thrill. We also had David Marks out with us. His authentic tasty surf licks on the lead guitar bring me right back to our first few years when my cousins and I hoped in the old station wagon and played high school dances and municipal auditoriums."

-------

Is it me, or does Stamos get more props, you may even say "Love", in that paragraph than David, an original member of the band? I think this kind of sums it up, doesn't it? John, his dear friend (no argument there), brings "energy, charisma, and musicianship (?!?!?!?)" whereas David brings "authentic tasty surf licks" and reminds him of "when my cousins and I hopped in the old station wagon" (was David not in said wagon?) to play high school gyms and town auditoriums.

Am I the only one that took that paragraph as Mike elevating John higher than David in importance and talent? Or is Mike just aware of the drubbing his dear friend has been taking on here the past week or two and saw fit to rectify that with his words?

Well, he used 36 words on Stamos and 45 on Marks, so it might just be you.

Really? Word count has something to do with it? Not the actual words themselves? That's got to be one of the more ridiculous things I've read in quite awhile.

He praises the "energy, charisma and musicianship" and then comments on the crowd reaction for Stamos. Then he says that David played the "authentic tasty surf licks" that brought him back to riding a station wagon playing school gyms when the band first started. You're right, since David got more "words" that means that the words that he used don't matter.

Just to stir things up a bit more, here's an excerpt of a post Mike made a few hours ago on Facebook:

"We had a full stage these last few shows. You may even say a 'full house.' It's always so great to have our dear friend of nearly 30 years John Stamos out with us. His energy, charisma and musicianship add so much. And to watch the crowd respond is quite a thrill. We also had David Marks out with us. His authentic tasty surf licks on the lead guitar bring me right back to our first few years when my cousins and I hoped in the old station wagon and played high school dances and municipal auditoriums."

-------

Is it me, or does Stamos get more props, you may even say "Love", in that paragraph than David, an original member of the band? I think this kind of sums it up, doesn't it? John, his dear friend (no argument there), brings "energy, charisma, and musicianship (?!?!?!?)" whereas David brings "authentic tasty surf licks" and reminds him of "when my cousins and I hopped in the old station wagon" (was David not in said wagon?) to play high school gyms and town auditoriums.

Am I the only one that took that paragraph as Mike elevating John higher than David in importance and talent? Or is Mike just aware of the drubbing his dear friend has been taking on here the past week or two and saw fit to rectify that with his words?

Mike's the leader

Not on the C50 he wasn't. Very much a shared deal with Brian.

And Stamos never showed up again on that tour, either ...

Beacon Theater C50 was early May and Stamos did the Jones Beach intro around the 22nd of June a month later.  

He did more than handle the "intro" at Jones Beach, and as I noted earlier, Nelson seemed more than a little peeved at John that night when he had some issues with the drums on "I Get Around".

I don't think Nelson needed to make the post he did, but John certainly could've sent him a private message (and maybe he did) asking Nelson to pull the post down.

Guess you're not familiar with Facebook. If you post something on yours or somebody else's page, you can edit or delete it yourself. Just like this board. Bragg left his message and Cowsill left two or three up there for quite awhile.

Actually, I was suggesting that John could've private messaged Nelson and asked him to pull down the original post that Nelson made.

Horrible, horrible post by Coswill, just disgusting

Regarding Nelsons accusations, sounds like sour grapes, the shot at Mikes band at the end is much more interesting than the Stamos comments. With Brian not touring much these days maybe things are getting a little complicated for those guys. Jealousy towards the touring beach boys, 200+ dates a year, a dream for any musican

I don't think Nelson needed to make the post he did, but John certainly could've sent him a private message (and maybe he did) asking Nelson to pull the post down. Perhaps he's one of John's "golf buddies"?

As far as the second part, I don't think that any of this has to do with "jealousy" or anything close to it. These guys have been with Brian for 15 years and I'm sure that none of them have any illusion as to how many shows Brian typically plays each year. They're professional musicians that get gigs when necessary to pay the bills.

Maybe Stamos stole his chick.

Why would he lash out so long after the fact?

Maybe he just read the (relatively) recent profile of Stamos in Guitar Aficionado? Or saw the TMZ coverage about the Manson claim?

According to someone who would know, Al is officially joining for the Modesto gig.

It was just officially posted on Brian's FB page that Al would be there.

Brian was the "someone who would know" that I was referencing. ;-)

When Stamos joined them for the JB show that year, he played drums on a few more songs than usual, and screwed up the verse part of "I Get Around". Nelson was visibly agitated at the time as I recall.

According to someone who would know, Al is officially joining for the Modesto gig.

Exactly. Didn't his daughters say he was cutting back on concerts this year? One offs only I think.

But "according to someone who would know" (#sarcasm) Brian's daughters are lying when they say they spend a lot of time with him. So obviously that's not the case.

Seems to me the vast majority of comments that I`ve read about the 10 second clip have been positive. The negative opinions are just as valid imo.

Criticism of melody, lyrics or arrangement is totally valid, albeit with limited source material available to judge from. Claiming that "Auto-Tune" has clearly been used when there's nothing to suggest it has been, and presenting this claim as a statement of truth (when it isn't), rather than a statement of opinion (when it would still be a stretch given the total lack of evidence), is not valid.

As for questions being pointed, that's as in relevant, i.e., why does the live album sound so bloody awful ?

There may be something you have not considered. And mind you this is just a somewhat educated guess. How about the live album sounds so bad because there was pitch correction already put on by the live  front of house sound mixer?  The audience could never tell because of the ambient noise in the stadium. And It would sound great coming through the live speakers.Its a much more likely scenario. And very typically done these days. If you look in  the live mixing booth many times they will have several channels of pitch correction  as outboard gear. Or these days maybe just a plug in. Then whomever was recording  the show would have to deal with that  sound as an output, since he or she is probably recording  the output of either the front of house board or the monitor console. That would at least to me answer many questions. Do really think that lets say Tom Petty would ever allow any producer to pitch correct him?  I also do not think that it is any producers wish to use any kind of pitch correction except for a specific sound aka Cher or some of the other artists mentioned. That certainly to me does not seem like the case. Its also very difficult to add pitch correction to live albums anyway. The amount of leakage in the open mics would register on the pitch correction device. so if there was a guitar bass or horn note on the open live mic it would totally confuse the tuning device. The more i write about this the more I am convinced that there was possibly pitch correction already on some of the Beach Boys before anyone mixed the live album.

No professional sound engineer who is planning on releasing a live recording would "print" live pitch-corrected vocals. Post-production pitch correction would be fairly easy. While there would be some leakage, a good bit of gating, eq'ing and expanding would reduce the other signal enough that it shouldn't trigger anything in the auto-tuning. The issue is that on a few of the tracks (Don't Back Down being the worst offender), the engineer who set the auto-tune was a little sloppy on the retune time and this was compounded by Mike's singing style and the melodic intervals of the songs in question. Other than the occasional vocal tuning glitch, the actual mix of the album is quite good, balanced and aurally pleasing on any decent monitoring system.

With a bit of volume, there's plenty of energy in the performances. The live DVD on the other hand sounds bad because they used so little of the room ambience in the final mix, something which isn't lacking on the CDs. In fact they probably added a bit of ambience for uniformity given the amount of different venues the recordings were culled from.