Oh thats right,  he smoked like a factory.   with all the stress, probably needed to.   The more and more i find out about what  really went on,  I have no idea how they did it. 

And for Carl to do this,  it had to be bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE9xv-VcH3w

Finding out Dennis was homeless after the Holland (financial) disaster and and how much they must of lost by BUILDING A STUDIO in Holland and the record being rejected.   Man.
I am sure they made it up by heavy touring.  But still.  I think the Beatles fights are nothing to the Beach Boys problems.   Watching let it be (and the outtakes), I have seen much heavier fighting
in bands i have been in.    But, I know, i wasn't there. 

Glad I got out of the music business early in life. 

the other jay

Thats fantastic. wow.   

I didn't realize though Carl  had to sing falsetto on this song. Always thought his voice was higher.  Unless its just  age?    That of course takes nothing away from Carls talent.

at first i thought there was a mistake and it wasn't a cover.  Excellent.

all i can say is...WOW.   I love it.   

I understand that.  I would have just been shocked if a leading studio like Goldstar didn't have any compressors  in the early 60's -- even for vocals.
I always thought at that time there were actually 2 and three track recorders.  But from hearing session tapes, we hear talking between takes, so that tells me,  they are going from one machine to another.  Possibly
record the instruments on a 2 track, 3 track or whatever,  then copy (during the vocal take)  everything on another 2/3 track machine.  The reason I mention 3 track is that was mentioned in something about Abbey
Road and how the british wanted to keep up. 

According to one of the engineers at the time, they actually would have background vocals on like a U87 and Mikes vocals on a Shure 545.  THAT is interesting.  I mean a stage mic vs. a studio mic. 

I hope I am not cluttering up the board with my questions!

Earlier in this forum, there was a discussion about Carls guitars, and it was mentioned that Goldstar didn't have compressors in those days...just for mastering.  Does anyone know if that is true?  I would think it would
almost be impossible not to be able to record loud enough with drums and vocals without one.  At least a Universal Audo UA-1 or whatever which is mild.  UNLESS they just put the mics further away.
[ to ME,  I *HATE*  the mix of River Deep Mountain High, its got that horrible plate reverb  and its too murky. Heck if the mics are miles away, you don't need any processing.
 Maybe Phil should listen to the beach boy records to learn how to get it right  


thank you.

its nice of brian to even go to one of those.   His hair was perfect    much better than the early days comb over things.  
in the second verse, i think he was doing his Mike Love impression.

hahahahah

So Brian does it live. thats great. 
Its one of those damned songs once i hear it, it's stuck in my head for a week.  ( but thats a good thing!)   

thats too bad.  In *my* opinion.   ( probably would have confused the public)

Hey all.
I haven't listened to the early BB stuff in decades (my first albums as a kid were BB's), having gone on to Jazz, progressive rock, whatever.  (notice i didn't say "progressed"   All music has its place.)  So reading this board about different topics  i pulled out Summer days and Summer nights.  Yes, California Girls is on it, but I forgot how I loved The girl from NYC...not to be confused with the other song by that name.
Anywho,  That Girl Don't Tell Me is fantastic.  I get it that they were copying the Beatles ect.  Does anyone have any details on this?  I am guessing since the Beatles were successful,  they thought they would try it.
No session people, except the bells player i think, which is interesting for that time.  Did that song chart? It sure as hell should of!

Exactly.  And if you have taken them, you go "oh yea, i remember now".      To me is just "escapism" music.  takes my mind off my current problems.   to ME, the album is exactly what it should be.  I just have never been
a SMILE fan, but I appreciate it.  Too polished with studio musicians ect.  I like  SS because it was one of the first real "Home Recordings"  and For the most part, the BB's are playing their own instruments, and a very minimalist production. Somehow through the genius of Brian it sounds like alot more than it is  Not always in the mood for it, but when i am, its great.  That and Wild Honey of course. 

I am one of those warped people that listened to Smiley Smile as a kid and was completely taken by it.  Didn't need to know what was going on. Didn't know about drugs. It was just "wild", you know? 
Ok, I like Carl and the passions (most of it)  so take my comments (cough) with a grain of salt.

Listening to the Smiley Smile session tapes,  Brian sounds pretty "there" on the counts off and talking ect. even though  the pressures and drugs and drive to come up with the next big thing kinda destroyed him.
I get the impression somewhat that Brian is just bulldozing through the sessions to fulfill the obligation to Capitol.  Did he start staying in the bedroom a little later?

Course I have heard this album so many times, it sounds "normal". hahahaha.

99.9999%  of the people reading this think who the heck is interested in this kind of stuff?

why WE  are! 

If this ever gets boring, I can fall back on golf statistics since i have no interest in golf.   

Never knew Al played bass among other interesting things in this topic alone.

I appreciate all the information.  Very funny about the union cracking down on Phillips studio across the street while  there was no attempt to hide the BB's studio. snicker.

jay

excelent graphics!  and oh so brutal. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

So if it was at Wallys,  I assume *everything* was recorded through SM57's.

Let the wind blow had to be recorded "back at the house" .  They are using some (maybe) omni mic. or a mic up...and we hear...a chair bang.  its become part of the dang song for me as I have heard that bang about 500 times.  And that sounds like an upright piano.  I remember a picture of
carl in the studio in the house, its a rectangular room, and there was an upright, and some other keyboards I think. He was sitting on the floor...smoking.   Mind is drifting.    I am sure its very important i remember this.

thats why i find smiley smile and WH fascinating.  So much chaos going on and its not a polished super over-produced (to say the least) thing.

just an fyi. If i say something, like carol didn't play at the house or whatever -- and its wrong, but mentioned somewhere else here,  I apologize,
I don't get to read everything and I am not an expert.   It would probably take someone like Carol to play the bass on "I was made to love her".

I was listening to Surfin Safari last night, and a picture with david playing guitar and carl on bass. I thought, DAMN IT!, STAY ON YOUR ORIGINAL
INSTRUMENTS!!!!!!  This switching around stuff only makes it more confusing in this forum!  didn't they realize that?
And there is a picture of dennis at a early 70ish concert playing a moog.  I wanna say. ok, get off that moog.  either play the drums, or just stand and sing.    damn it.

I will not click that link!   ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpzlVvCN1p8 )     ....I don't think i could take it.
the title itself says enough.

Or....maybe....I....should.....

um, was she banned from this board?  It was  her participation in the Draggin wagon wasn't it?

I was reading reviews on amazon for Wolf Marshall's  Signature Licks for Joe Pass.  Keeny Burrell -- jazz heavy  & now head of jazz studies at UCLA
and some other heavy said this book was great for learning the basis of Joe's style and theory.  She wrote a review,  "He does not understand".  that
took me back.   First Carl, now Wolf.    

Also, still suprised AL played bass. because when i see him on DVD's it always looks like its his first day after learned some new chords.
and on their  first live album, in the intro to Little Duece Coupe, when they say "Al Jardine, on rhythm guitar!" you dont hear anything. AHAHAHAHAHAHA
I do like al though. His stories about regording California Saga and Brian were very funny.

I am guessing Carl on  "I was meant to love her" ?   Only because as I recently learned here,  the BB's retreat after the problems with the record company and they weren't using session musicans?   And I if i remember, Carol said she didn't do any sessions at the house.

I don't think Carol is a create force. You could never compare her to Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Miroslav Vitous.  I heard a PBS interview and she
was excited she came up with the Surfer Girls dum-de-de-de-dum-de-de-de bass line.  As a bass player (among other things) how could you
not with that rhythm.  

well crap!  I DIDN'T KNOW THIS!!!!!!!!!!!   I don't come to this site as a expert, just a fan. so this is great.  Thank you.

Al Jardine played bass? well damn. something else new I didn't know. Its all good!

dang.  ok...well now I have to go lay down and let it sink in.

Jay

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked. 

Since Cheap Trick did Sgt Petter. W-P could do the Smiley Smile album in its entirety. Heck, they can do it at home. Use the same production "values"
what could go wrong?

hahahahahaha   actually, i'd have to buy that if it came out.

j

>>The Dalai Lama walks into Domino's Pizza and says "make me one with everything".

PERFECT.  now i will annoy my co-workers with it.

I like her playing on basically any of the BB songs.  Not that the parts are complex, but i just like the sound of that bass.  Oh, yea, I like
her playing on the Hogans Heroes theme. she makes the bass sound like a tuba.  


 I have never heard her on a jazz record (which is her main focus).  She produced an album  for Joe Pass and played on it. Here is the critics take:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/better-days-r259443   

I am betting her instructional material is great. She really wants to help people.  She knows Jass/Bebop theory  which says alot.

Oh yea, Carol is a great bass player. and i do love her playing on those albums.  as a kid,  that pick bass stood out.  much more to me than the guitars . thats why i became a bass player.   that and Mccartney's bass on SGT pepper. 

Also as you all know from the Endless Harmony dvd ( or is it the other one),  Carl is shown on stage in a clip playing it. Actually I can play it.
I think this comes down to some people underrate Carl and dennis's playing. I know this has been discussed before.  But even though I like drummers
like billy cobham, bill bruford, Ricky fataar,  I really like dennis's drumming.  I haven't figured out how when I listen to tracks from Wild Honey or
Smiley Smiley still,  it fools me into thinking its a full band, but its like JUST a bass, or bass and piano.  And who doesn't love the extensive flurry
of percussion on Country Air?  Its perfect.  Maybe because I have heard it since childhood and STILL listen. lol

No, I know now Carol's memory isn't good. ahem. i am in my 50's and if you ask my wife...um...lets not go there.  And to her credit, she actually
will answer your questions and stuff. Especially about playing.

WHAT?  YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MIXING BOARD WAS USED ON SMILEY SMILE??  (cough).   DOESN'T EVERY ONE KNOW THAT?
 ITS a radio broadcast board. a Gates    Duralux 2 channel thing.  It is probably better than the old tube abbey road boards in terms of flexibility. dunno.

Just wanted to introduce myself and say how I am astonished at all the great tidbits here.  I thought I knew a few things about the Smiley Smile era. I see now I do not.  But after "wasting" hours  [ok, i couldn't pull away!]  I now know the mixing board used for Smiley Smile.  I am sure a person with a life wouldn't care.  But i find this stuff totally fascinating. Just amazing knowledge here.

My first BB album was shutdown vol 2. my baby sitter gave it o me.  Wore it out, and some of the tracks on there got me interested in recording.  I had no idea about styles or current culture ( I think this was 68?)  so no one told me the BB's weren't cool.    Then I went to the Rexal drug store and picked up Smiley Smile.  Ok, this was a tad different.  Totally did not "get it",  but i really loved it -- whatever the hell it was.  Then Wild Honey, which I loved the organ sounds on the title track.  Then I got into the beatles, who, king crimson, and the BB's were on the back burner.  I was at my friends house, his big brother bought albums (this is how we got exposed to stuff). and we were sitting around on a summer day,  and the Pet Sounds/Carl and the Passions LP package was on the shelf.  Gee, who are carl and the passions? lets put it on...OMG,  I was not ready for the rawness of the first track. And it took me awhile to realize this was the beach boys.  Today, its in my top 10 albums. so much for taste eh?    Now If i can figure out how they get the drums so in  your face on Here She Comes, I will be happy. lol.  I have to wonder, who mixed that, My God, lets mix Blondie right out of it!  No room reverb or anything to bring the vocals out a tad. But hey, whatever. I still like it.


I just wanted to add some information here, because I have been overloaded with so much, I would like to contribute some back.  I had some email conversations with Steve Desper
and Carol Kaye.
I bought Steve's Spacializer thing, oh about 10 years ago.  I didn't like the midrange tone it produce, so I emailed him.  We got into a good discussion, and I asked about the CD's that
came out.  He was against  Surfs up and Sunflower because  him or the bb's had no input or got to listen to the mastering or anything.    just a FYI.

A more interesting conversation was with Carol Kaye. I had emailed her about something bass related, we were chatting and Of course I asked about who was playing on the early
records. (didnt have this site then ).  I asked her if Carl played the solo on Surfin' USA.  She says no, Billy Strange (he did the theme from the munsters), did it.  So I said,  ok, but
in Musician magazine in (I think 1982)  Carl did a short interview, I think it was on the last page.  And the interviewer asked if he played the solo on Surfin USA.  Carl seemed (from what i remember) was put back and said OF COURSE!.  
I mentioned this to Carol, and she said well, they can't say they don't play on their records because of their image and the "kids".  I said,  yea, maybe back in the early 50's, but not now,
and from all I have seen and heard about Carl, he is not one to boast.  She replied with "I was there".   I saw a post here that she was not even on the scene there until much later.
Although she said she had the AFM sheet for the session.     Just more info.

Jay