THank you very much.   I love learning about  history .  I record myself, done demo recordings for bands back in the 1970's, I just wondered how it was done on the historic concerts that I love.
Being a "recording engineer" that does it for fun, your study web page is just great.   Also your philosophy about recording helped me...its ART, there is no right or wrong. ...well unless you are being paid and there is an expectation.  Nothing better than hearing a old beach boy tune like Fun Fun Fun on an AM radio in summer.  I never understood how even on a cheezy speaker and AM doing the compression how you can hear every instrument.  But after reading your posts, alot of it is in the mind and what we perceive emotionally what we hear.   I'd just never thought about it.

I can't remember where, but they asked a big engineer (Bob Clearmountain, not sure)  about which type of studio  is "best".   He said, the best studio is the one that gets the idea across...even if recorded on sub-par equipment.  
I use digital stuff now (just cheaper), in the 70's i had the teac-3340. mic's direct in. We didn't know better or worse. Fiddled until we got the sound we wanted (mike placement) not that we
ever thought about it.  Compressor? whats that?   Limiter? whats that?     Reverb? never used it.  didn't have access to it. didn't care.  
Now, I have hundreds of plugins at my disposal.  Too many choices.  Thats ok though.  At some point i figured its OK to just have fun, unless you are paid.
"straight wire with gain"...oh no! NO FUN!

Also thanks to everyone on the forum for being polite, since its the holidays, i thought i would mention that. (nope, not drinking at the moment) .  I can ask questions without getting slammed,
that alone says alot.     

THANK YOU
Jay

Stephen, 

Thanks for all the information. it is a treasure.

When you recorded Monterey Pop (or any of the BB's concerts or any ), its not just mic into the board is it?  You use outboard equipment, Like a limiter or a compressor? 
At  Woodstock (which was Hendrix's engineer) from what i heard they were using  little tapco (i think) mixers chained together!

Thanks again.
Jay

I've been reading this thread since it has started off and on.  I have learned alot just about music here and the insight is invaluable. 
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME.

Ok, i have read the archived thread, but I can't find the answer to this:

Listening to the smile boxed set, its all studio recorded (commercial studio),  they had worked on these songs (i am glossing over).  Since there was a deadline to get new product out, why
not just take the studio stuff, mix it down (if it isn't) and give it to Capitol?  I know they moved to the house because of Brian and other reasons, why re-record these minimalistic versions
when you have stuff in the can you can use? 
[ I love smiley smile much more than the polished versions in the smile box   As a kid i wondered, what the hell are they doing? but it was so fascinating...still is ]

Thank you so much. Apologies if this is in the wrong thread.
I hope all of you have a great holiday.

Jay
Spatializer owner! 

FYI: Saw this,  you have probably seen it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/jul/03/beach-boys-1966-rocks-backpages

I am going against my better judgment and ordering this.   I know when it comes, everything will be put on hold.  I am still recovering from the "Beach Boys"
book.    I saw them in Pine Knob theatre (MI) in I think '74.  I think Ricky played drums and came out from behind them and did a (i think) big guitar solo. 
My parents introduced me to frog legs....only they didn't tell me it was frog legs.   tastes like chicken.

Productivity meter will show:     NONE [\......] LOTS
                                                         
Course reading the book and "educational learning" is productivity, right?

Jay

Thank you Stephen!

>>>The drums sound gated to me and without reverb. This will render that presence you are hearing.
Just that little minor thing makes this whole form worthwile to me.Well, the mystery is solved I gotta try that trick.  Never would of thought of that.  Learn so much here.  Books (except yours of course) aren't good have stuff like this. for the most part.
I think few pop groups other than the Beatles have such an interesting *recording* history, course as a kid, that is what sucked me in.

I've been studying the Cabinessence video/audio so far and A/B ing it with 20/20 (haven't checked the Smile Sessions yet).  I can hear the difference even though I am just using headphones.  I have to really listen over and over as I grew up with the LP and a good (not super audiophile) stereo.  One gets
spoiled by Sunflower and Surfs up and how that was recorded and that's whats burned into the brain, I expect everything to sound like that, including my stuff.
But its a great standard to shoot for.  I think that era of their music and singing really lends itself to this.  Wonder how it would of been if Brian and Carl
ect. Didn't really care about having super sound...I don't know any other surfing groups that do that much.
Some of the processing reminds me (just a little) of the  BBE stuff, or other way around.




Thank you for doing this, I hope this (using other music or whatever) works into something good for you.

thanks again
Jay

OMG...on the Desper mix, i can hear a RMI electric piano on the harpischord setting. ew . I had one of those.  Course it works great in that context.  It
crops up on other 70's stuff, like the Spinners One Of A Kind Love Affair (i think) but Gawd, don't use it in the solo!!!!! and BS&T uses it on one of their
hits.  just some trivia.  

I think George Harrison liked using a Baldwin Organ too. 

I loved the sound of it on Smiley Smile. Kinda got that dark creepy sound, perfect.  Especially wind chimes.  Wouldn't be the same if it was a Hammond (well
no, it would be a Hammond ). 

oops, my mistake. Moffit engineered Carl and the Passions.

HOLD ON! Are those 8-tracks on the top of it?  yes??? LOL.
We got us...a [beach boys] party!!!!!!!   hahahahahahahhahahahahha

This is great.  What a rare opportunity to hear something NOW on equipment it was made for then.   I can vaguely remember hearing Revolver on my parents stereo (which awakened my interest), but to hear it NOW, fascinating.  Alot of people that bitch about the mixes sound probably don't understand this piece of it.  Thanks so much for writing this.  Brings back memories.

jay

Excellent piece. thanks for providing it.

I listened to Love You for the first time today after hearing in the thead about the downer comments when it was one of "those" albums and the poor guys girlfriend, ripped it out of the CD player and whipped it out of the car.  I said, I must hear this!!!!!!!

I am glad I did. I find alot of their later output i dunno, bland and kinda desperate , although there are gems. Thats just MY opinion.
When I heard this, my jaws literally did drop.  I realize on songs like Johnny Carson, Brian is having a good joke. He could of written
maybe more "developed" lyrics, but he didnt want to, so its perfect.  Part of the appeal of the record is i think they are all burnt out and trying to go, and are basically toast....which makes the appeal even greater to me. Its not polished. No backing band here.
And the line about the falsies, just killed me. LMAO.  and Solar System? hahahahahahaha.  I love it.  I like this record because
my mind is having a hard time defining it and its wondering WHAT THE HELL WHERE THEY UP TO??? or...SOMETHING IS HORRIBLY WRONG...or...they are having fun and screw everyone else.  So its in my top 5.  Now i would of liked more guitar, but i'd rather
have it like this than session players and having it slick.  I do love the production. Love the "drumming"   I love The mimalist
thing, like on Wild Honey, you hear alot more than is actually there. Oh, and Brian Discovered the Hohner Clavinet.
Its a true oddity like Smiley Smile.  To me, its all good.

[. I've never heard alot of their later stuff. like Love You]

I throw myself on the mercy of the forum. I've never heard alot of their later stuff. like Love You.  I spend too much time listening to Carl and the passions and Smiley

Please fix that, ASAP

Yes! of course.  LOL.  I might as well get into the late 70's/80's/90's/2000's and continue.
And Summer in Paradise!!! YES.    I actually liked their Hot Fun In the Summertime Song cover.

I do see on roller skating girl that this is probably a self contained operation.  I go by if dennis is playing "drum".  I xcan see how the lyrics could be
taken the wrong way.

I throw myself on the mercy of the forum. I've never heard alot of their later stuff. like Love You.  I spend too much time listening to Carl and the passions and Smiley Smile (true "chick" albums!).    Someone was saying earlier that Love You was a "stranger"  album?  Is this the one with Roller Scating Girl on it?
I must go hear that song.
I do love the story of the girl in a convertable hearing it, then whipping it out of the car.  She has a right to do that in my eyes because she owns a convertable.   [ not really!]

My wife understand the BB's, Bonzo Dog Band (which kinda threw me), and even Sun RA.  But,  really, she could give a crap.  Since i don't want to be
tortured by her drek, I don't force mine on her. L M A O.

when i read the title of this thread  my first thought..."just shoot me"... i see i am not the only one with that opinion.

You guys are brutal!   (excellent, keep it up).

One BB song is worth 10,000 words here .    If i was music critic i would say its perfect for what the bb's are now.   kinda reminds me of Good Timin'.   I give it a thumbs up.  except brian didn't write it.  I wonder if "God" in the title is some ty in to God only knows.   I don't think you can compare it to Holland.  Different time,  different ideas.  They were trying to be creative then and be relevant.   I don't think that would work now.   
This song isn't the production genius (brian?) of Steamboat, but thats quite ok.  The beach boys can sing about nostalgia, they have earned it..and they created most of it for me!!!!!
I guess...no...Mess O' Help To Stand Alone, on the tour? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA ...no?    Ok, how 'bout Transcendental  Meditation from  Friends? no?   If they did that song, it would be 1 million words on this board.
hahahahhaa.

Jay

I am impressed you would play something for your parents.     That is refreshing.   

My first memory of any music  that  i would actually pay attention to ,  was at the baby sitters house.  She had a big record collection.   I was  probably 11.  And she had lots of records, but she had The Beach Boys Shut Down
Vol 2.   I was fascinated with it.  Loved the harmonies (not that i understood anything) , and the beat.  I had to be the easiest kid to babysit as I sat in her room and listened to records all day...no need to go outside and play. lol.  And the record always skipped in one part on Why Do Fools Fall In Love.  It is so ingrained in me now, when i hear their version, I still "hear" the skip.    The Beach Boys kept me off the streets!!!!!!!  She gave me her copy of it. which I wore out.   I remember trying to figure out about the space between songs. lmao.  i thought they just were quiet and started the next song. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I really loved how Brian started using the synth for bass.   I use it for bass now because of that.   so much more interesting than a fender  precision with flatwound strings.  Although...just to really be obsessive,
if you listen to outtakes from Vegatables.  There are nylon tapewound strings on the bass. I know what sound anywhere.  Much more comfortable to play.  Intonation nightmare.  Course its the opposite of the
John Entwhistle, Chris Squire rotosound  deal. but hey.  To me, in that era,  doesn't matter what equipment they used. 

I don't think you are missing anything by not hearing SIP.  Although Hot fun in the summertime is good.  Just my opinion.   they recorded it on a Mac. 

I never realized I as obsessive about the BB's.  Now...i see it.  And I have a revolving list of things I am always doing, like learning a song or music theory or something in recording.  oh no!  but why stop?

THIS IS THE BASTARD THAT MIXED " HERE SHE COMES". BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  PHASE CANCELLATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   THE UNHEARD SONIC DISORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS ALSO THE GUY THAT WAS TALKING ON THE BEACH BOYS LIVE ALBUM FROM THE EARLY 70's  THAT MADE CARL SAY "SHUTUP YOU GUYS!". EEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


mustard? arent they standard on Chicago hot dogs?  Daddy, where am I? 

hahahahahahaahahaahaha

I think its the songs and their singing for the most part.  However, once you get into audio or recording and mixing and are a certified BB nutjob (like me),   you start hearing the little things and you are just sucked in even
more.   as much as (to me) the drums on Here She Comes were about the best live sounding drums on a record I have heard,  I have to wonder who the hell mixed that song!   that vocal lead  can be missed depending on
where you are standing in the room.   I like that about it, but  they should of probably been up in the mix.  I don't know if anyone cared about phase cancellation.

the liner notes on Holland and Surfs Up  and maybe Sunflower talk about how they didn't just pan an instrument, it was recorded in its "space" and all that.   As it says on Carl and the Passions, "recorded in center channel
quad, the way Brian heard it" ( If I remember).   i think thats a "its really mono" joke.   Like the RIAA joke on the liner notes of the Stones Sticky Fingers album.   snicker.