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620645 Posts in 24977 Topics by 3549 Members - Latest Member: HotAsIce November 20, 2017, 10:16:07 PM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: Today at 01:28:43 PM
Agree with the Rhonda comments....it's the worst song on the entire CD.

Each of those super duper heavily-Autotuned “help, help” chorus lyrics is like a vomit dagger plunged into my soul.

I played it at my work, and a coworker heard it from across the hall, and came in to inquire what was with this Autotuned atrocity. True story.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1995 studio footage. Brian, Mike and Paley on: November 19, 2017, 08:02:02 AM
Boy, if only to know what that brief conversation between Mike Love and David Leaf was about...

That's what I was thinking too. Is it confirmed that Mike knew what Leaf looked like (for Mike to have been able to know who that guy sitting there in dark glasses was) at that point? Had they actually met in person before?

In the second edition of David's book (the 1985 version simply entitled THE BEACH BOYS), he describes a Beach Boys convention a few years after the publication of the first edition where Mike tried to burn a hole in his head with a very concentrated staredown from across the room. Clearly Mike was not happy with how he was represented in David's book, the success of which prompted the authorized Priess bio that quickly followed.

Thanks, I guess that answers my question. Unless for some reason, Mike didn’t recognize David due to the dark glasses. It must’ve been extraordinarily awkward for them to be in the same room together for several minutes. If Mike hadn’t been distracted by his son being there, it probably would’ve been worse.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 18, 2017, 09:42:21 PM
This amazon review reminds me a little of an old poster on here -  LOL - https://www.amazon.com/gp/profile/amzn1.account.AF5PMLNG443THPXSN2IAW4QMWFWA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_pdp?ie=UTF8

Totally “agree”. Even the quotations aside, the blind adulation to the point where you’re saying the covers maintain “the essence of The Beach Boys sound” makes it obvious who is writing this. Point me in the direction of any Beach Boys release that made the lead singer sound like Jed Clampett being voiced through Megatron and then I’ll believe this “essence” line.


Maybe herbal essence. And that last sentence has to be one if the funniest things I've ever read on the board

+1, spit take worthy
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 17, 2017, 03:48:17 PM
On a Kanye West album it sounds great. On a Julia Michael’s album it sounds great.

When you’re 76 years old and your guy at the booth doesn’t know how to use autotune it sounds dreadfully bad. I mean it sounds horrendous when autotune is applied to Brian in copious amounts. I guess a producers job is to listen to the music and steer it in the right direction. It shouldn’t matter what is hip these days, what should matter is how it sounds when it’s being heard on the monitor.

And if Mike wants autotune, totally fine! Paul McCartney has it on his Live in New York album and it sounds tasteful and great. But also keep in mind the rest of your mix has to match that effect...So when plastic/stale instrumentals are the backdrop for Mike attempting to sound hip it is going to fail hard. And it did. So in my opinion the producer did a real awful job and Mike shouldn’t have released this as it is...especially when there are moments of actual beauty on this record.

That’s another thing, if the producer wanted the whole album to sound modern, then why only apply autotune in copious amounts to some of the tracks? I agree with you that that’s probably why the autotune was done. But I feel like the producer was completely lazy, like this record was more of an annoyance than a real project. I mean, none of this sounds cohesive. Wild Honey is a grand slam, as is Warmth of the Sun, and they sound so out of place on here because they sound nothing like the rest of the garbage on the second disc. I think it’s a producers main job to make sure a record sounds cohesive, and none of this does. I’m mostly referring to the second disc. The first disc, minus the autotune, was a pleasant surprise for me.

But anywho, I’m just thinking out loud.

I honestly wonder how much time Mike spent in the studio on vocals on some of these songs. Yes, songs like Cool Head sound good, that's probably because it was recorded a decade + ago, when Mike's voice was in better shape, and didn't try to sing out of his range.

The cover songs with AWFUL Autotune sound like Mike took one or two takes and then left. Mike always made no secret that he hated spending too much time in the studio, after all.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1995 studio footage. Brian, Mike and Paley on: November 17, 2017, 01:08:08 PM
Boy, if only to know what that brief conversation between Mike Love and David Leaf was about...

That's what I was thinking too. Is it confirmed that Mike knew what Leaf looked like (for Mike to have been able to know who that guy sitting there in dark glasses was) at that point? Had they actually met in person before?
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 17, 2017, 12:36:35 PM
 Whats with that "now its time to run out for some curry" line at the end of Ram Raj?

I can't believe this is part of the song.

I literally cannot believe it. That it took several pages of this thread for anyone to post about it tells me that so few people even listened to the songs all the way through to notice this (including myself).  

The verse vocals on Ram Raj are at least okay and not decimated by robo Autotune. But the curry line??!
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: 1995 studio footage. Brian, Mike and Paley on: November 17, 2017, 12:18:48 PM
This is a very historically fascinating document. We're lucky this footage survives.

It's rough seeing Brian smoking at this stage in his life. How long after this point did he quit for good? Soon after, I'm thinking?
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 17, 2017, 10:49:38 AM
Mike's favorite Nintendo NES game is Mike "Tyson" Love's Vocal Punch-In® (Now With Autotune!)

9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 17, 2017, 10:18:12 AM
Guitarfool, in regards to vocal blend, I think the only song that comes close to a good vocal blend is ‘Brian’s Back’, and that is overshadowed by the question “why the hell is this even on the album?”

HeyJude, LOL, you’re so right that even Lookin Back With Love is far better than the album that dropped today. Again, it’s just insane to me that 5 years ago this guy was helping make TWGMTR, a critically acclaimed album that hit billboard #3. And now he’s happy releasing this.

With the dove being unleashed as the album cover too, no less. If someone wanted to jokingly dream up the most laughable album that Mike could have made, it would approximate this release.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 17, 2017, 10:02:02 AM
I made it through bits and pieces on Spotify.

There are a few of the "new" tunes that have their moments, and I've always been a fan of Cool Head, Warm Heart.

Other than that, the Autotune is the WORST thing I've ever heard by the band. Absolutely terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. Did I mention terrible? I Get Around is simply atrocious. Yeah, I'm not a fan of most remakes, including for instance the remakes that Brian did on Imagination (although the remakes on Brian's Christmas album were surprisingly good). But these are SO, SO much worse.

Why is Ambha caked in Autotune? She shouldn't have an overused and overtoured voice like her pops. No excuse. Honestly I cannot fathom how this got released.

Probably will be the 1st actual BB release that I don't listen to all the way through.

As mentioned previously, this makes the Looking Back With Love album look SUPER GREAT by comparison. Mike was visibly embarrassed about the mere mention of Looking Back With Love when Brian mentioned it on TV in 1989. How can the same guy think that this is not an utter embarrassment?  
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 16, 2017, 03:23:48 PM
Add to that timeline, and I realize I've talked about this before but it's relevant - In an interview with Brian conducted August 1995, he mentioned inviting the Beach Boys to his house for a listening party so he could play them more of the tracks he was working up. And despite them being described as "enthusiastic" to work again with Brian, they all canceled on him and didn't show up. That hurt Brian, and add that Aug 1995 interview to several where he says he wants to work with The Beach Boys, and had material which he was excited to present and actively working on with Paley and Was, yet the band seemed to balk if not be outright rude about even listening to it, let alone cutting more tracks. It did hurt Brian, he says it hurt him to have these cancellations and whatnot, and yet he kept saying he wanted to work with them.

At some point, isn't it a natural reaction for someone who keeps hearing "no" and can't even get his own band to come to his place to listen to new songs to just say "f*** this" and move on? The fact his brother was one of the louder voices in all of this had to hurt even more.

Wow. Compare and contrast to 1966/67 when Brian's friends would eagerly come over for listening parties when he'd invite them. How much of a let down must that have been to see how much everything had changed in his life. Brian thrives off of good vibes and excitement from others when sharing his music. And the friends who attended the SMiLE acetate listening parties were the ones that Brian's mates (at least Mike?) labelled as leaches or not good for Brian to be associated with, yet those friends seemed to be so much more supportive than Brian's own family/bandmates when one compares these experiences. So very sad.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Paley Sessions Discussion Thread on: November 15, 2017, 03:24:23 PM
I wonder if Carl was thinking that the Paley stuff sounded TOO vintage sounding,too 60's and maybe thought they sounded dated..of course that's the part of the songs I like best and I hope Brian does one more Wall of sound 60's sounding CD soon..it seem Carl was into the more mello A&R type stuff in line with Chicago and Christopher Cross while the BB were doing songs with heavy drum machines, heavy synths and heavy guitars..the Paley stuff sounded more like Today or Summer Days/Nights than Problem Child,...




I'm trying to picture Carl yelling: More Problem Child! Less Today-sounding tunes!
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 14, 2017, 03:45:49 PM

Back to Mike's album, I'm curious why he put everything in the lap of Michael Lloyd instead of just using the Paul Fauerso stuff from 2004. And why have other guest vocalists, but scrub the Christian Love leads from circa 2004?
 

I wonder if Mike and Christian had a falling out? Being as he not only left his dad's band, but was wiped from recordings, it would seem a bit odd for that to speak of a great, happy relationship. Could be wrong of course.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 14, 2017, 10:58:33 AM
One major factor for me, and maybe I'm in the minority in this opinion, is how referring back to that pesky lawsuit Mike filed in 2005, Mike seemed to spew a lot of personal bile personally directed at Brian and Al for *daring* to perform and release their own versions of Beach Boys songs under their own names. Mike's word was "bastardized" to label what he thought Al did with the Family & Friends project, and also labeled Brian's Pet Sounds and Smile tours and subsequent releases in similar ways. It was suggested Brian was even harming Mike's own name and reputation as the 'face of the Beach Boys" by doing the Pet Sounds and Smile albums live in their entirety.

The hard fact is that any artist can record, perform, or even release their own version of any existing songs or even a full album if they pay the rights and license fees to do so commercially. The audience can decide based on the quality of that product and buy or not buy accordingly. If the project is crap, it will sink like a stone and not sell tickets or albums.

It feels more than hypocritical for Mike to file such strong opinions in a lawsuit for projects Al and Brian did *under their own names* and not as "The Beach Boys", when little more than a decade after that lawsuit Mike himself puts that "Beach Boys" logo on his own remakes and re-records of Beach Boys classics and seemingly doesn't try to draw a line between the Real Beach Boys and these solo remakes.

It feels like common sense to me, and it's as obvious as night and day that Mike is doing exactly what he hammered Brian and Al for doing, and in the case of Brian's Pet Sounds/Smile projects, the issue was even more of a moot point or non-issue because none of that was billed as anything but "Brian Wilson" doing what any existing artist can do with existing songs. If Mike thought Brian and Al had tarnished his reputation and the legacy of the Beach Boys by doing solo works that happened to be very well received by the critics and fans, what is Mike doing in 2017 with these remakes being presented with those hints of "The Beach Boys" and slapping that logo on the work?

Mike's the biggest hypocrite in the history of the music business. Or one of the biggest - he's in some elite company. That he completely purposefully omitted any mention of that lawsuit in his bio - and has the chutzpah to release this drek nowadays which is in direct "violation" of what his suit complained about - speaks volumes. I cannot believe no journalist has cornered him on it.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 13, 2017, 09:32:38 AM

The fact that Brian nor Al, either individually or through BRI, have bothered to go after Mike for doing some very similar things that Brian and Al were sued for, tells me they're either being a bigger person about it, or they have lazy lawyers or something.

I think they are being bigger people about it, plain and simple.

Life's too short for them to spend a bunch of time bitching, moaning, and dissecting the actions of Mike Love. That's our job.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 12, 2017, 07:51:01 PM
I wonder why Brian's Back doesn't say "(feat. Carl Wilson")? I feel like that would draw a lot of attention, because it's Carl singing on "new" music, especially for those who don't realize the song was written/recorded in the 70's, and released in the late 90's.

I know I can't be alone in saying this, but I completely, utterly do not understand the logic or the psychology behind Mike Love, in 2017, while acutely estranged from Brian for half a decade (at Mike's own hand, due to his personal actions in imploding C50... followed by Brian issuing an LA Times statement saying it felt like being fired), re-releasing this particular song.

It makes zero sense. Of the list of songs that Mike wrote, it's literally dead last in terms of logical sense for songs on that list, compared to any other song, for it to make *any* sort of sense in re-recording and re-releasing now, during this estrangement where Mike effectively took actions that made Brian anything but "back" in the Beach Boys. On the list of Mike's and the band's WTF moments, it's pretty high up there.

The only thing that I can think of:

- Is it possible that Mike somehow is doing this as attempt at a passive aggressive olive branch at Brian? Instead of actually reaching out to Brian to talk to him, this is some sort of bizarro poor communication substitute for actual communication with his cousin? Sort of like... "hey Brian, and hey world... I actually love my cousin (nevermind C50 or my actual actions, just focus on this)"

- Is this another type of thing like Pisces Brother, where it's a super awkward, yet somehow well-intended namedrop to get people to associate Mike with other beloved musicians, reminding the world yet again that Mike Knows Famous People?

Anyway, I just think it's in super odd taste, considering Mike's actions are the singular reason that Brian is Not Back. Someone around him MUST have said to Mike that this is in odd taste, right? I don't doubt Mike loves Brian, but I don't know how this is anything but a really twisted way of showing it. Brian's gone from The Beach Boys, Brian complains about how sad Mike's actions effectively kicking him out made him, and in response, Mike decides to sing a song with the lyric "I never knew that he was gone?" As in, when Mike now tours with Bruce, he doesn't even notice that Brian's gone? Is that because Mike regards Brian as someone who is worthless to the band now or something? What conclusion can one draw from this? It weirds me out. Carl being on it (the only real saving grace of the original recording) also is odd, since I cannot imagine a living Carl would actually sing on this song in 2017 given the current circumstances between Mike and Brian.

And yeah, even Mike's biggest defenders I'm SURE privately raised an eyebrow when they saw this song on the tracklist. It's just very, very weird. I'd love to sit back and eat popcorn while a Mike defender explains how this is Definitely Not Weird.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 09, 2017, 11:38:07 AM


One has to guess VDP knew, even if "Smile" was going to be completed, that it might be a "one and done" situation, as he had to know that Tony Asher was his predecessor.

Not so sure that's the case; had SMiLE come out, it could have (subject to speculation/interpretation, of course) drastically changed the course of things with this band. I think it was far more of a leap into uncharted territory than any other album the band had released.

Unlike, say, Pet Sounds, which wasn't quite a huge success/game changer for the band as much as SMiLE could potentially have been. Had SMiLE been released, and critics finally started talking about how The Beach Boys' lyrics/content had matured and caught up with the maturity of the backing tracks, this could have further marginalized Mike, and emboldened Brian to continue working on more songs with Van, post-SMiLE. But only with a seismic shift in band power dynamics, which I contend could possibly have been possible had the album been finished.

Or not. Obviously Van witnessed some immense family toxicity around Brian, and wanted out of that situation. But I feel that a completed and positively-received SMiLE could have led to the band being taken far more seriously by the cool kids/reviewers, and Brian's choice of his next collaborator(s) would quite possibly have been affected by this. I think that more Van collabs on the next project(s) could have happened, but only if the album sold, and only if Brian using collaborators other than Mike Love was made a big, positive deal of, by influential publications.

I'm surprised Mike didn't bootleg audio record Brian's promise that Mike would get to be the main collaborator on the next album, and/or get it in writing, notarized even. I guess he knew his guilt trips could eventually do the trick without these other methods.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 09, 2017, 10:53:15 AM
There are far worse stories than VDP's. Do we all remember the Bob Burchman story?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14995.msg344233.html#msg344233

Thanks for the refresher!

just an aside...

Didn't Brian originally agree to go 50/50 with Van on everything way back when they first started collaborating in '66? I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall Brian was particularly generous and tried to be very fair with everything in terms of his and Van's collabs.

If true, Mike must have loved that  Grin

I'm sure it must've pissed Mike off royally, but again I don't think these discrepancies are necessarily simply random occurrences. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've hypothesized that Brian may have been resentful of Mike's ongoing pushiness, and perhaps as a result wasn't especially motivated to be as generous with Mike as he was with Van; Van, being someone who Brian obviously really wanted to work with, and someone who Brian correctly predicted would be a person who would be important to his career and evolving image/creativity, plus someone who was short on coin, appeared to be the fortunate recipient of Brian's generosity at the time.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 09, 2017, 10:04:18 AM
There are far worse stories than VDP's. Do we all remember the Bob Burchman story?

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14995.msg344233.html#msg344233

I surmise something similar happened when Ed Carter had "Surfer Suzie" ready for the KTSA album. I'm not suggesting these songs, these one-shot compositions, match up to VDP's excellent work on "Smile", but as VDP himself seems to hone in quite often on the financial/business side of things in his complaints, it appears he could have ended up in a far worse position than he ended up with.

Yep, I remember reading that before. That is a gnarly story.

Didn't Brian originally agree to go 50/50 with Van on everything way back when they first started collaborating in '66? I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall Brian was particularly generous and tried to be very fair with everything in terms of his and Van's collabs. This might not have been a formal agreement though. So yeah, if Van eventually 45 years later got far less than what he had expected from their original handshake (?) deal, I would not fault Van for being pissed. Only for how he goes about expressing it.
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 09, 2017, 09:52:21 AM
Van Dyke's feelings and experiences are shared by others who have worked with BW. They haven't necessarily shared them as widely as Mr. Parks, but that doesn't make them less real. An insider once told me that a "black cloud" seemed to follow Brian's collaborators.

Exactly, and I also have little doubt that all of the BBs individually and collectively have left various people over the years as disgruntled (or insert some other similar term), and some of those people have been more justified in feeling that way than others.

This dynamic even exists *within* the band; I think some of the feelings VDP may have towards Brian were shared by at least some of the other BBs at various points over the years.

As is the case with the BBs, you can look at VDP's role in working with Brian either way. Is he someone who contributed a great deal who has seen far less fame and fortune than Brian as a result of "Smile?" Or is he someone who nobody outside of the most inner circles of the industry would ever have heard of had it not been for his "Smile" association? It's of course both, right?

Look at someone like Mike Love, who has reaped *far* more rewards (fame and fortune, etc.) than any of the other collaborators and even any of the other Beach Boys outside of Brian, yet even *he* comes across as disenfranchised and disgruntled.

I think there's no question that some people who have come into Brian/the BBs orbit have been worse for the wear and have some valid complaints/frustrations, etc.

Where *some* of these people make a mistake is to assume that if they've been "cut off" from working with Brian or talking to him, or if for some reason Brian present-day doesn't meet up to their arbitrary standards or doesn't seem like he "used to be in the olden days", it *must* be because of some external factor other than Brian. Look back that "A&E Biography* back around 2000 or so. Who was it, I think it was Ginger Blake who seem to think some truly nefarious is the cause of why Brian "isn't the same", as opposed to the obvious (drugs, mental illness, Landy, simple aging, etc.). Similarly, Mike Love doesn't want to admit *Brian* doesn't want to work with him or go to his birthday parties or whatever, so he blames others.

If anything, I think VDP has at least *sometimes* directly blamed Brian for whatever issues he has with Brian instead of *always* blaming someone else around Brian.

I'm guessing VDP doesn't have all that much money in the bank (again, unlike the very wealthy Mike), which has to suck for someone associated so deeply with such an esteemed project (one that many scholars say rivals Sgt Pepper as the most groundbreaking work of the 1960s)... and VDP perhaps believes that the Legend of Brian Wilson is due in no small part to SMiLE, in which case I'd say he's not all that offbase.

Of course that album is just a drop in the bucket of all of Brian's amazing contributions to music, but SMiLE is what got MANY people hooked and fascinated with Brian in particular, and helped mythologize him greatly. If Van is having money troubles and feels recently (as of 2011?) cheated or disrespected in some way, I can certainly understand resentment.

It's odd how Twitter in the 2010s has become this faucet for disgruntled men born in the 1940s with (presumably) widely differing political/overall views who repeatedly run their mouths, both acting like children rather than adults. It's really a bizarre, yet perhaps understandable phenomenon, since it's such an easy/low effort way to vent to the masses and be a smart alec if one wishes to be one.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 09, 2017, 08:34:51 AM
Back on topic - It worries me how some of the protagonists in BB history can so quickly be demonised here.

It seems if you have anything negative to say about a cherished key player (Brian, Dennis, Carl etc.) then attitudes towards you shift very quickly.

VDP expresses some bitterness/frustration towards Brian & his team. Rather than focusing on what the causes behind this change of attitude might be, many here now seem to be rubbishing his creative output and name-calling.


Again - no way this change in VDP's behavior came outta nowhere. That stuff never does. I seem to recall grumblings around the time of The Smile Sessions' release in 2011 that something bad had recently went down behind the scenes causing the fallout, but no details were ever public. No accident that VDP was involved in BWPS, but not in TSS. I'm guessing it has to do with royalties/money, but maybe it's more than that.

I think anyone who is pissed (and rightfully so) at VDP's undeniably childish tweets against Brian should at least acknowledge that whatever went down must have been pretty bad, at least in VDP's eyes, in order to get him to the emotionally-charged/lashing-out point he's at these days.

However, I will say that I cannot imagine anything that he feels shortchanged on is deserving of acting out in the way that he's publicly doing. I won't condone it, but we must know what happened (even if we probably never will) if we are to fully understand why things are the way they are.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 07, 2017, 11:36:31 AM
We all remember the end-of-tour reunion dinner that Mike skipped back in 2012. He's making up for it now with his own "Unleash the Love" dinner. Table for one:



Wasn't Mike a vegetarian? Or did I imagine it? Or was that only for a time, and no longer?
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 03, 2017, 05:18:16 PM
It has Little Feat on it? f***...I guess I have to then, as I'm a big mark for Lowell George (discovered him through Robert Palmer)!  

Quote
Ugh I didn’t know he took shots at you. This fandom is friggin crazy haha.

I can totally get a dislike of Song Cycle, but Discover America is a totally different animal.

Yeah around the same time he took swipes at a couple of the members here. Might be archived.

I'll  check it out eventually. I was actually thinking about starting over with his discography fresh, but every time he takes a swipe at Brian I change my mind.

Not defending bad behavior (or him acting out/lashing out on Twitter), but as I mentioned before, something really bad must've happened behind the scenes around the time of The Smile Sessions.

Van and Brian looked genuinely cordial and on good terms in the Beautiful Dreamer doc in 2004. It really didn't feel fake to me. Plus Van wrote some great material in 2008 for TLOS (although who knows when exactly it was written?)

In any event, Van definitely seems bitter and sour, and perhaps we'd all have just a tad more empathy (doesn't excuse bad behavior, just maybe we'd understand it better) if we knew the answers to why that was; what happened between 2008 to 2011 to cause this? I'm glad we know what we know about Mike being screwed out of credits; I can understand him better (though I still think Mike regularly acts abhorrently, immaturely, and narcissistically in an unacceptable manner that his legit gripes do not remotely excuse).

Not that it's any of our business, but it's fair to assume that Van felt royally mistreated in some way during that time period. This sudden change in his behavior and lashing out doesn't come out of nowhere. I have no insider info about why this is, but I have a hunch that many of us would feel some more empathy towards the guy if we knew the facts (obviously it's not gonna fully excuse really bad behavior though).
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: November 02, 2017, 05:06:56 PM
Clearly I'm no fan of Mike love but it's very obvious what drug usage did to the band and the impact it had on the Wilsons and the boys in general. Brian is clear.... LSD blew his mind. Carl and his heroin Addiction in the late 70s really impacted his singing and his touring performances on stage. Dennis of course was the worst when it came to drug abuse and its impact on him and on his performances live was clear. Again no fan of Mike love but drugs did have a negative impact on the band

A severe addiction to total control + power is also absolutely a drug.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: VDP on Twitter on: November 01, 2017, 11:15:32 PM
I used to admire him greatly, but to see him so bitter is just incredibly sad.

 I agree. Something bad must’ve gone down in the last decade behind the scenes, and I don’t feel qualified to have any opinion about it because we are completely not privy to this information. But it is indeed sad.
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