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633375 Posts in 25352 Topics by 3607 Members - Latest Member: John Brode June 23, 2018, 10:59:56 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Have A Number 1 Album! on: Today at 03:33:01 AM
Amazing. I don't love the album, although it has its moments, but good for them.

How weird is it that their only #1 albums are the oddball choices "Concert" and this. Sort of like how their 1 competitive Grammy is Brian's version of "Fire". Just weird, bizarre stuff that gets the accolades sometimes.

And speaking of BBs and weird... look at this article about the same #1 album topic:

https://etcanada.com/news/340903/the-beach-boys-top-the-classical-albums-chart-for-the-first-time-ever/

In an article by a major publication regarding the BBs having a #1 album on the prestigious Classical charts, they use possibly the worst band photo in the group's history, from arguably the most embarrassing project in the group's history (Summer of Love on Baywatch).

The ever omnipresent lard vs. high art dichotomy at its most extreme, methinks. What a friggin' weird, weird, weird band we all love.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Australia TV Interview...Trouble in Paradise on: Yesterday at 06:03:13 PM
Regardless of Brian and Denny not being in good vocal shape...if Carl's vocals had been top, top notch Carl, as they were only a couple short years later, I wonder if the people who hate on the album would ease up a bit. Yeah, people can complain about not liking other stuff about it, but I feel like Carl’s vocals, when in top form such as on BB85, are usually able to elevate material considerably in the eyes of many fans.

For the record, I love Love You, even with some relatively ragged Carl vocals. And a “ragged” Carl vocal only means he’s not really in top form for himself, but he still sounds decent to my ears.


I never thought Carl's vocals were too bad on Love You, but I havent listened to it in a while tho. just curious, which songs/parts of songs would you say he sounds "ragged" on?

I've often heard people say that Carl sounds a bit drunk/tipsy in general on his leads on that one album, which is ironic and a bit of a bummer since the material on that album is IMO so damn good... and as the subsequent BBs albums became more and more turd-like, Carl began peaking as a vocalist more and more.

(Yet maybe it just had to be that way, since everything, from the musicianship, to the other Wilson brothers' vocals, are somewhat "off" anyway on Love You, so if it had confident BB85-style Carl vocals throughout, it might have been an odd contrast... although on second thought maybe not that odd, seeing as Al and Mike sound perfectly decent on their parts).

Still a slightly (or maybe more than slightly) subpar Carl vocal is better than most vocalists on a good day.

I think an example that I've seen cited would be his lead on The Night Was So Young. It does have a slightly "sloshed" quality when compared to his vocals on not-all-that-much-later songs like Good Timin' and Goin' On.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Australia TV Interview...Trouble in Paradise on: Yesterday at 05:34:14 PM
Mike understandably fails to mention that perhaps if he hadn't thwarted the Wilson brothers' more progressive musical direction after 1975, iconoclastic as it may have been, in favor of commerciality at all costs, they wouldn't have been so frustrated and felt a need to increasingly turn to hard drugs to escape such a creatively stifling professional situation.

Agreed wholeheartedly. While nobody forced anybody to do drugs, there's still such a thing as being a contributing factor why some people self-medicate. Yet of course Mike would in a million years never own up to it, which is ironic since I have no doubt Mike became so deeply into TM in part due to stress that he felt from the band, and to clear his head from stress he felt from a specific member or two, so the dude should be able to "get" the idea of self-medication due to someone else being a thorn in their side.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Australia TV Interview...Trouble in Paradise on: Yesterday at 05:25:09 PM
I can only find one example of Carl being asked about the "Australia episode", and that was that 1989 European interview that someone (very graciously) translated and posted here. I think he was still trying to not really discuss it and not divulge any detail. Which is totally understandable.

Carl is a rare example of going off the deep end (whether only alcohol or alcohol and other things) but then *COMPLETELY* cleaning it up, and presumably without any major intervention (at least intervention on the Landy scale like Brian went through). Carl appeared to be drunk (and/or high) at shows as evidenced on audio and video from late 1976 or so until some time in 1978. And then, by later in 1978 or certainly by 1979, he was ONE HUNDRED PERCENT turned around and the most sober, straight-laced, straight-faced, squeaky clean guy on stage (okay, well that was maybe still Al!).

Beyond the extremely poor taste Mike continually shows in bringing up the Wilson brothers and their *decades-old* problems is that he sometimes lumps Carl in with Brian and Dennis, and Brian and Dennis had much more long-term, severe, chronic problems that were evidenced *in public* (on stage and on record) for a much longer period of time than Carl. With Carl, he sounded a little "slurry" on studio recordings for a year or two, and had his year or two of being moderately to severely sloshed on stage, and by 1979 and every year through 1997 (with the exception of his 81/82 hiatus), he was the most pro, dependable, clean, dignified guy on stage (along with Al).

Slightly off-topic… I wonder if the public perception of the “Love You” album would have been different if it wasn’t among (or perhaps THE) low point in terms of Carl’s vocals.

Regardless of Brian and Denny not being in good vocal shape...if Carl's vocals had been top, top notch Carl, as they were only a couple short years later, I wonder if the people who hate on the album would ease up a bit. Yeah, people can complain about not liking other stuff about it, but I feel like Carl’s vocals, when in top form such as on BB85, are usually able to elevate material considerably in the eyes of many fans.

For the record, I love Love You, even with some relatively ragged Carl vocals. And a “ragged” Carl vocal only means he’s not really in top form for himself, but he still sounds decent to my ears.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM on: May 30, 2018, 03:15:56 PM
If one could remix and partly re-record "Problem Child", then it would at least not be one of the most annoying songs of all time in their catalog. Mix out the "nyah nyah" stuff, re-record real drums, and just strip the mix down in general, and it's an innocuous song with a dependably solid Carl lead vocal.

Not sure why the band used Terry Melcher so much in the late 80s and early 90s, besides the obvious that he was buddies with Mike. Maybe he worked really cheap?

There is some interesting stuff in the Gary Usher book about how, circa 1986, Usher acknowledged that he (Usher) and Melcher were kind of awkwardly both vying to produce the band. As it happened, neither really got to produce a full album during that time frame, though Melcher obviously did more work with the group and then several years later in 1991/1992 did produce (awfully) the SIP album.

There are a small hand full of tracks with Melcher producing that sound okay, namely "Somewhere Near Japan." That's about the only BB track that Melcher helmed that didn't have horrible, shrill, synthetic-sounding drums. I guess "California Dreamin'" isn't too bad, but that used a pre-Melcher 1982 track as the basis. But "R&R to the Rescue", the stuff he produced on "Still Cruisin'", Problem Child, the SIP album, all sound thin and shrill and overly-compressed. Even the group vocals, which still shine through and usually sound good, are too compressed and shrill. All that stuff needs to be remixed.

Was Terry chosen in part because he was still riding high from having produced the successful Byrds albums 2 decades prior? I mean, Brian Wilson rode his production legend for quite some time after he had produced anything terribly successful, although of course Brian produced WAY more hits than Terry. But still.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Baywatch OST - \ on: May 27, 2018, 10:04:43 AM
I just found this review of the Beach Boys - Baywatch episode:


Baywatching: Surf's Up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zv4U73PsqI

 Thanks for sharing. This is absolutely incredible and hilarious.

I have a hunch that the entire Bart Simpson connection information  which the makers of this video included was learned from this board. I'm surprise that BuzzFeed or one of those sites hasn't done a story on it, it's such a  bizzarre little nugget of trivia.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys Channel on Sirius XM on: May 21, 2018, 05:32:14 PM
There needs to be a segment on BBs forays into rap.

Smart Girls + Summer of Love + Wipeout. Plus maybe the UK version of Island Fever.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The craziest BB comp we are ever likely to see on: May 21, 2018, 10:01:08 AM
Capitol put out some crazy cassettes in the late 80s/early 90s

I had one of those, it was called "Sunshine Dream". First time I heard Pet Sounds songs, blew my mind. I was more familiar with 70s stuff, because I had bought Ten Years of Harmony prior to that one.



 

Urgh, that cover! That guy on the surfboard was drawn with two right feet (see the position of the big toe!)

I wonder how close they came to copyright infringement with the Disney Mickey ears at left.

That cover alone is worthy of more discussion. Yowzers.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Were Al's Commercial Instincts Under Utilized? on: May 15, 2018, 03:51:50 PM
Regarding Al and the "Postcards" album, he definitely *does* have a stockpile of songs that went unused on that album. I would imagine he dropped in the cover tracks to make the album more appealing in trying to net some sort of record deal/distribution, and also because he simply seemed more enamored with those tracks.

But I'd wager he has dozens of tracks that could have made it onto that album. He has even mentioned several in interviews in the last 20 years "Crumple Car" was one, and that one eventually leaked. There was one he worked on with Neil Young that he named as well (for the life of me I can't remember the title at the moment).

There are a number of titles that have been floating around for years. "Islands in the Sun", "Good Good Feelings", "Jennifer Clover", etc.

There are also probably a number of "grey area" songs like "Don't Fight the Sea" that may have been potential BB tracks but subsequently we were worked on solo.

Plus it seems that Al, perhaps even more so than Brian Wilson at times, has the "keep tinkering" thing happening, where he's not happy enough with a mix to release it.
Part of me wonders if he got that trait from Brian having been that way during SMiLE, if Al's really that much of a perfectionist just on his own, or if perhaps Al just felt his released work had to measure up to the high standards set by the band in their great years.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Were Al's Commercial Instincts Under Utilized? on: May 15, 2018, 10:07:22 AM
When I first read the thread title, I thought it said "Weird Al's Commercial Instincts Under Utilized?"

I think Al could definitely have added more to the band throughout the years (compared to the amount he actually did)... in particular, I think there should have been more Al leads and less Mike leads on the early tunes.  I also think Al's offerings as a songwriter could have blossomed more, but he wasn't really taken seriously being the one non-family member in the band, and I get the feeling he didn't want to step on anyone's toes by trying to "push" more of his songs through.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Concert attire on: May 07, 2018, 09:51:20 PM
Carl appeared in his street clothes (as he was running late) at the Dublin Adelphi gig, May 2 1967. It makes for an interesting read in Ian and Jon's book, "The Beach Boys In Concert"

 Thanks! I own that book and have read it, but some of it I did glance over, I will have to re-read that part now Smiley
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Concert attire on: May 07, 2018, 05:08:19 PM
How many times during the Striped Shirt Days, or during any other period in time where they wore other matching uniforms, did the band perform a show where perhaps one or more members didn't wear the same uniform clothes?

I'd tend to think that out of the many hundreds (or perhaps did they crack a thousand?) of shows that they played during the uniform days, that there perhaps had to be at least a show or 2 where for whatever reason, one of the band members was the odd one out and didn't wear their uniform. Like if it got lost or stained one night, and that one member just wore street clothes for one show.

Did anything like this ever happen?
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Brian Wilson lookalike = actor Edmund Cobb (super eerie) on: May 02, 2018, 06:09:57 PM
In the 1983 film "Stroker Ace", check out this guy in flannel who is a Scott Bennett lookalike, who briefly appears in a fight scene. Not sure the name of the actor.



14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Happy Birthday Mr. Desper on: April 30, 2018, 02:23:23 PM
Happy bday, Stephen!!
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love - Unleash the Love - Due November 17 - w/ 2nd Disc of BB Remakes on: April 06, 2018, 03:38:25 PM
Picked up the vinyl edition of UTL which came out a while after the CD. The sticker is different from the CD edition. I wonder if Mike got in trouble for using the Beach Boys logo?

Also noticing that the sticker now says *a* lyricist.



I'm sure it was changed grudgingly; I'm surprised they didn't try to hide the word "a" by shrinking it down to size 1 font.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: March 27, 2018, 01:14:40 PM
Why did they not ask for David Marks to return instead of hiring Bruce to replace Brian/Glen?

I know David created his own demise, but I think that him leaving was truly a huge misfortune for the Boys to lose David.

He seemed to be the earliest member to have a desire to create songs, and other than Dennis and Carl, Al and Bruce had about 3 songs in them the rest of their career. David could have helped them a lot I feel.

They needed someone who could take Brian's place (and/or mix and match with Al and Carl) in the vocal stack. Between that and the lingering old politics of his original exit, I don't find it surprising they weren't calling Dave back up in 1965.


Right. I'm guessing that since he was already a corporate member (although wasn't that sorta not properly handled, where he didn't realize he should still have been earning more money until years later?), they wanted someone they could pay less and not worry about re-introducing anyone who could thus have potential expectations of more of a slice of the pie.

But yeah, it's a bummer he wasn't around during those eras.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Was \ on: March 23, 2018, 10:04:39 AM
Do you think perhaps people might have mistook the beginning of the song for Surfer Girl? Just a possibility that occurred to me.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Did Landy ever realize he did anything wrong? on: March 22, 2018, 10:25:37 AM
I recently got an Ancestry.com account, and in addition to trying to figure out some personal family tree stuff, I randomly for sh*ts and giggles typed in a few non-family names. Landy was one of them. And lo and behold, I discover that when Landy moved to Hawaii after having been forcibly removed from Brian, he wound up living literally walking distance from a park called Wilson Playground.

I cannot think he was unaware of this when he chose where to live. Creep-a-delic!






19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Happy Birthday Mike on: March 15, 2018, 11:39:43 AM
Shots fired! LOL LOL LOL

I heart VDP
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Vocal edits, punch-ins + copy/paste vocals in BB songs on: March 04, 2018, 10:13:49 PM
Don’t know if live albums are included but the Knebworth Concert grates for me. Not able to watch at the moment so no specific songs but double vocal tracking on California Girls from memory was bad. Also hearing Al’s voice yet on the DVD he is not even singing into the mic is pretty bad.

I cannot make it through it due to the Autotune on Cali Girls. Is that the earliest instance of Autotune on a BBs' release? (Imagination excluded, being a solo release).
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Vocal edits, punch-ins + copy/paste vocals in BB songs on: February 23, 2018, 10:53:07 AM
Curious to see what examples people might come up with for this topic.

I've always loved to discover new tidbits of info regarding what parts in BB songs might be vocal edits/splices... such as the previously unknown (to many fans, at least) edit where Brian comes in during Good Vibrations on the "when I look" part during the lyric "when I look (Brian)...in her eyes (Carl)".

In that GV instance, I sorta feel like Brian wanted it to seem like it was the same vocalist singing the whole line (to the listener's ears), and that it was an attempt at sleight of hand. As opposed, to say, the parts in That's Not Me, where Brian jumps in with "you needed my..." where he's very obviously just a new vocalist finishing off the lyrical idea that Mike started singing in the previous line.

Of course, the GV intent is completely subjective and debatable. Another obvious edit/splice is during the group vocals on And Your Dream Comes True.

Sometimes edits are obvious since reverb gets cut off, but other times edits are completely invisible and not known to us fans. One that I've always wondered if it's an edit or not is in the song Somewhere Near Japan, after Carl sings "old times sake", is it an edit to the next line where he sings "though I know you're gonna break my heart"?

Obviously as the years have worn on, we've gotten many more edits/splices, copy/paste jobs, etc as the band members have aged, and their vocal chops have declined (not to mention their patience in the studio most likely). I sorta feel like the chorus vocals on Someone to Love from Sweet Insanity are copy/pasted over and over again on each chorus, but of course I could be wrong.

Side question: are there any studio vocal leads on BB songs have no (or virtually no) edits/punch-ins? Where it's essentially a live studio vocal?
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: WIBN in final (?) Nancy comic strip on: February 21, 2018, 10:03:49 AM
If you're trying to insinuate that I hijacked the thread, and not the string of 5 immediately preceding your original post that is ridiculous.

But isn't the fact that a brand new publication, the comic printed in 2018, went out of its way to list "Wilson/Asher"... which contradicts the "new" revised credits? That is a topic worthy of discussion, which then led to a topic of the whole issue with the credits having been revised in the 1st place, which naturally pisses some people off because Mike's name on the credits is still (and will always be) a source of debate/contention to most fans who are knowledgeable about the history.

But it's not like there's zero relation to the original topic.  Conversations (either in real life, or on message boards) will often lend themselves to other topics that are related.

If the original comic had not been a panel with WIBN, but instead had been a panel with a topic about Al Jardine's preferred brand of t-shirts, I somehow doubt it would have led his line of messages into the discussion topic of Mike Love and his crediting overreaching.

But the comic went out of its way to show a now-outdated WIBN credit. So why is it "hijacking" for that comic to lend itself naturally to a discussion about the credits for that song?  We are nerds. We know the history of that song, and the revised credit, and that is only natural to become a topic of discussion as a result.

It's not rocket science why it went there; Mike himself, via so, so many of his actions over the years, has done stuff that many fans find in poor taste, crass (even Al Jardine publicly stated such - imagine what he must say/think privately!) ... essentially Mike has spread his own tentacles over so much of the story of the band, that when those things he has done - which many think are bad, egocentric, narcissistic decisions - are innumerable, it's only natural that perhaps a larger percentage of topics (when compared to other members) might eventually go down that road of discussing Mike critically, even if the original topic wasn't specifically about that, but tangentially might naturally lead there.

In a nutshell, basically, you can't act the way Mike has for so many years without many things indirectly leading back to a discussion of him/his actions. It's not gonna happen every time of course. Mike has nobody to thank but himself for that unique distinction. I'm also certain that if Mike had long ago completely ceased with stoking the flames of smack-talking other members while comically trying to build himself up - people would be somewhat a little less inclined to naturally have topics veer in this direction.

I never said it was zero relation, I always maintained it as "little relation".  A writing credit whose revision most casual fans don't know about on a drawing of a 50 year old record in a frame of a comic strip that is ending.  That is "little relation".

If you step outside of this bubble for a minute, here are the most likely reasons for that cover:
1- Guy googled the WIBN single cover and drew it.
2- This was the record he had as a kid, with Wilson/Asher on it, or it's one that he picked up at a used record store as an adult.
46- He is expressing a subversive hatred of Mike by recognising that the credits were amended and going against the court decision in his drawing

What you're trying to defend isn't some sort of academic discussion about why the record appeared as it did, you're trying to defend your friends' immediate replies of "Mike is a litigous POS" or "He's gonna sue the comic strip".  You're trying to characterise that after the fact as some sort of Superfan Discourse that logically resulted from the OP.  What is telling is that in your own words here you use the reasoning of Mike being crass/in poor taste with his public behavior as grounds for these replies.  You show here, that the direction is merely "the guy sucks so obviously people will freely stick it to him whenever possible".  

Sure, and I really don't think many people on here really think/thought, truly, that there was any remote "good chance" that there was an underhanded "stick it to Mike" intent by the cartoonist. But being as Mike seems to have a history of finding ways to sue or get offended/feel slighted over things that many other people view as unwarranted (he can get upset over anything he wants of course, just as we can roll our eyes if he does), I don't see how people need to get upset over posters jokingly tying in Mike's history of actions into a conceivable (though unlikely) hypothetical Mike/Mike lawyer reaction.

Basically it comes down to fans venting. Many fans are frustrated to know that Mike has been so litigious - especially the 2005 nonsense lawsuit - and it's because of actions like that,  compounded by the omission of mentioning said lawsuit/ not expressing an iota of regret about it in his autobio (thus insulting the intelligence of fans, making it seem like simply omitting it will make negative sentiment over the issue magically "go away") has caused many people to half-jokingly (though understandably) want to make light of the sue-happy band member in order to bust the tough guy notion he's tried to create by puffing himself up all the time. It helps to laugh about it. Yes, it's gonna be at his expense, but again, there's a reason for that. Terrible actions, no public expression of regret, repeat, for decades will do that to a fanbase.

The flipside is that people like myself will also talk about the things I actually like and appreciate about Mike's contributions to the band. I think things only get toxic when people somehow cannot bring themselves to say/acknowledge Mike's good contributions. I cannot understand how disliking his behavior can translate to a frustrated fan saying that good lyrics/vocals are somehow not good. That refusal, I can agree, is toxic and nonsensical IMHO.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: WIBN in final (?) Nancy comic strip on: February 20, 2018, 03:33:34 PM
Just for the hell of it I typed ‘wouldn’t it be nice’ into google images. Nothing else, just as the cartoonist probably did. The single disc, as depicted, comes up. Forget credits as the artist probably knows nothing about the songs history.

I think some are reading too much into this.

Probably right. I think 98.5% likelihood of what you said being accurate.

But one never fully knows who is a hardcore BBs fan out there, even cartoonists. Slim chance but who knows. I doubt anyone on here *really* thinks it was an intentional Mike Love dig by the cartoonist, but stranger things have happened.

And also, it is funny to speculate that Mike might get pissed about it, regardless of the cartoonist's intent. Yes, this is a famous cartoon, but it's super long in the tooth, and not all that well-known in 2018... but if, say, on a national famous TV show or commercial in 2018, we saw a similar Wilson/Asher credit on a prominently-featured piece of art, I could honestly see Mike's legal team at least privately having a discussion to see if there's any way Mike can sue or badger the content creator into changing it to Wilson/Asher/Love. The fact that this hypothetical legal discussion isn't *completely* farfetched and could actually happen is hilarious and discussion-worthy, I think at least.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: WIBN in final (?) Nancy comic strip on: February 20, 2018, 02:51:57 PM
If you're trying to insinuate that I hijacked the thread, and not the string of 5 immediately preceding your original post that is ridiculous.

But isn't the fact that a brand new publication, the comic printed in 2018, went out of its way to list "Wilson/Asher"... which contradicts the "new" revised credits? That is a topic worthy of discussion, which then led to a topic of the whole issue with the credits having been revised in the 1st place, which naturally pisses some people off because Mike's name on the credits is still (and will always be) a source of debate/contention to most fans who are knowledgeable about the history.

But it's not like there's zero relation to the original topic.  Conversations (either in real life, or on message boards) will often lend themselves to other topics that are related.

If the original comic had not been a panel with WIBN, but instead had been a panel with a topic about Al Jardine's preferred brand of t-shirts, I somehow doubt it would have led his line of messages into the discussion topic of Mike Love and his crediting overreaching.

But the comic went out of its way to show a now-outdated WIBN credit. So why is it "hijacking" for that comic to lend itself naturally to a discussion about the credits for that song?  We are nerds. We know the history of that song, and the revised credit, and that is only natural to become a topic of discussion as a result.

It's not rocket science why it went there; Mike himself, via so, so many of his actions over the years, has done stuff that many fans find in poor taste, crass (even Al Jardine publicly stated such - imagine what he must say/think privately!) ... essentially Mike has spread his own tentacles over so much of the story of the band, that when those things he has done - which many think are bad, egocentric, narcissistic decisions - are innumerable, it's only natural that perhaps a larger percentage of topics (when compared to other members) might eventually go down that road of discussing Mike critically, even if the original topic wasn't specifically about that, but tangentially might naturally lead there.

In a nutshell, basically, you can't act the way Mike has for so many years without many things indirectly leading back to a discussion of him/his actions. It's not gonna happen every time of course. Mike has nobody to thank but himself for that unique distinction. I'm also certain that if Mike had long ago completely ceased with stoking the flames of smack-talking other members while comically trying to build himself up - people would be somewhat a little less inclined to naturally have topics veer in this direction.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: WIBN in final (?) Nancy comic strip on: February 19, 2018, 04:03:37 PM
And like clockwork, the first 5 replies to this excellent first post were predictable SSMB toxic pollution.

Check all the coats and hats at the door for a moment, and I want to ask a few direct questions.

<<<<<<

In your opinion, what did Mike Love contribute to the song Wouldn't It Be Nice?

If as had been reported Mike's only contribution was saying "good night baby, sleep tight" during the fade, in your opinion did that justify suing for and claiming equal writing credit alongside Wilson-Asher?

>>>>>

If mentioning those issues is "toxic pollution" on display, let us know.

But I raise them as well to show how many fans still take issue with Mike's "claims" of authorship on *that specific song* to where his original claims included scenarios presented in court that were as absurd as suggesting Brian would duck into the bathroom during studio sessions and "write" secretly with Mike over the phone. If there is blowback against Mike over this song and it happens to come out when the song is discussed, it's not coming out of thin air.




Do you think that if a person contributes a lyric to a song, they should be credited/acknowledged? Is it deserving of a written credit? I'm asking as a genuine question.

What about song titles? If that were case Ringo is due a TON of money.  LOL

Right - I've used the Ringo example in many discussions of this in the past. Ringo coined the phrase "hard day's night", which became a #1 hit single AND the title of a smash hit film in 1964...and Ringo didn't get credit as a songwriter or credit for the film title. Ringo could have claimed in a lawsuit that he got screwed out of millions, but he didn't. He could also claim "Tomorrow Never Knows" and other malaprops which he was fond of throwing into conversations. Things like "eight days a week", etc. But he never took it to court. Credit to Ringo.

Jay - To your question, in this case there is no-zero-nada logic that can be argued for Mike to where he deserves 1/3 equal credit for "good night baby, sleep tight". Listen to the track. Music by Wilson, lyrics by Asher. It's as simple as that. Most of the song's structure which hooks listeners in comes 2 minutes or so prior to Mike's "contribution", and most DJ's at the time started their talk-up during the fade anyway, so if it had to be argued by a musicologist they may suggest Mike's part was inessential to the overall impression given to listeners by that recording.

It was a very bad decision that screwed Wilson and Asher both financially and conceptually...beyond the notion of what is right or fair.

Further, consider Mike filed roughly *double* the claims to various songs in that suit than what actually made it to the case, which means roughly half got thrown out of court. Consider the reasons why that many of Mike's "claims" to cowrites were dismissed, and how many of those dismissed songs Mike tried to claim credit for where he wasn't due such credit.

It's a shame WIBN slipped through as it did, because it is and was a travesty.

PS - CenturyDeprived: Spot-on. Great post.

I'd also add that Mike's attempt to shoehorn in a credit for WIBN is not unrelated to his recent interview talking about how he wishes he'd written lyrics (how he could've made the album "better" and "more commercial", or something to that effect) for the album Pet Sounds.  It's all part of his same complex. Most people wouldn't do/say either of those things, but the same guy did/said both. 

Dude cannot handle the fact that this album is so critically praised (with Brian naturally receiving the lion's share of that praise), and it became a hunt to find a way to get more credit for Mike on the album. Unfortunately, the opposite effect happened, and Mike came off looking like a petty straw-grabber, and it diminished peoples' empathy for the things Mike ACTUALLY got legit screwed out of. And if Mike were actually a modest guy, people would have empathy for him, the same way I'm sure people have empathy for Denny not getting credited (or appreciated for) "You Are So Beautiful" in his own lifetime.

I feel like Mike watched this clip of the original TV show Dallas as a pep talk, before consulting with his lawyers to try and take as much credit/power as humanly possible. Taking lessons from Jock Ewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGdfPtW56fo
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