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658595 Posts in 26374 Topics by 3742 Members - Latest Member: Soulful Old Man River June 03, 2020, 12:13:02 AM
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1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best Brian Wilson collaborator on: May 26, 2020, 07:51:25 AM
VDP was in no way responsible for Brianís mental state

The failure of Smile was both due to Brianís mental state and a cause of Brianís mental state.  The Smile project was inextricably tied up with Van Dyke, their collaboration, their friendship, and clashes of personality.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best Brian Wilson collaborator on: May 24, 2020, 03:09:40 AM
Best for Brian in a personal sense - Andy Paley.  Andy really understood Brian and how his musical mind worked and was able to turn on Brianís creativity and inspire him, besides being a good friend to him during the Landy dark days.  The music they produced was not on a par with Brianís best, but that had to do with the Landy situation and then Brianís mental state.

In terms of quality and quantity Mike Love would be the best lyrical collaborator, if we look only at quality Tony Asher.  Van Dyke and Brian did some brilliant work but in retrospect I donít think the collaboration was good for Brian - the clashes in personality and the fallout from it all derailed Brian with long lasting consequences.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Van Dyke Parks Commented On A SMiLE/Americana Clue on: May 14, 2020, 08:16:39 AM
While it may have inspired Van to incorporate Americana themes into Smile, especially the plight of the native Indians, I don't see any direct parallels between the poem and any of the lyrics Van wrote except in the most vague general sense.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Van Dyke Parks announces Orange Crate Art reissue with bonus tracks! on: May 01, 2020, 11:01:17 AM
It'll be interesting to read Brian's new liner notes. I remember when "That lucky old sun" came out, I played both albums (TLOS and OCA, since both albums feature Brian and Van Dyke but in different roles) to compare the approaches of each songwriter's vision of California. Van Dyke's classy and elegant way and Brian's pop-y rock and roll version. Beautiful stuff, each completely different yet similar in Brian's vocal arrangements. Speaking of vocal arrangements, I seem to remember that AGD said, Brian did all the arrangements while Brian once mentioned he just did what Van Dyke told him to do. IIRC there is no credit in the booklet for the vocal arrangements. That's why I'm interested in hearing Van Dyke's and Brian's new statements about the album. As mentioned before, imo OCA features some of Brian's best and most soulful vocals in later years.

You know I never thought about it until now (a ďduhĒ moment) that Lucky Old Sun was Brianís take on Orange Crate Art.  Makes me wonder if a composite album of the best tracks on each could make a coherent album that would be more of a collaboration than OCA was.  Maybe Brian realized he missed an opportunity with OCA by limiting his role to vocals and made up for it with Lucky Old Sun.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Rank BBs album closing tracks on: April 22, 2020, 08:44:10 AM
1. Cabinessence
2. Cool Cool Water
3. Caroline No
4. Surf's Up (but Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again would have been better)
5. Still I Dream of It (Adult Child)
6. And Your Dream Comes True
7. Funky Pretty
8. Whistle In
9. Don't Back Down
10. Mama Says
11. Transcendental Meditation

Other closing songs don't really stand out in any way for me as closers.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Lovely interview with Lyle Ritz on: April 21, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
Interesting that Lyle mentions how restless and how it  drove Hal crazy to have to sit there for hours not doing anything while Brian went over the parts with the musicians.  Especially when it seems Brian was closer to Hal than any of the other musicians.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Don't know if this has been discussed on: April 21, 2020, 09:41:01 AM
Link not working for me.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What happened to Sensitive Music for Sensitive People? on: April 18, 2020, 06:08:02 AM
What happened to Pleasure Island - I think that was the name of the project Brian was touting at one point as his next album after Lucky Old Sun.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Favourite, least favourite, overrated, and underrated Beach Boys album on: April 16, 2020, 05:34:19 PM
Favorite: Sunflower
Least favorite: Summer in Paradise (I donít consider Stars and Stripes a Beach Boys album).
Most overrated:  Surfs Up
Underrated: MIU Album
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Marcella on: April 15, 2020, 04:30:24 PM
Didnít Carl do the vocal arrangements on this?

If so, it's surely the only time Carl did this kind of vocal arrangement - his others are more "conventional", if you will, and not really BW-like.

I feel I Can Hear Music, especially the a capella break, was pretty Brian-like. 
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Marcella on: April 11, 2020, 10:13:34 AM
Didnít Carl do the vocal arrangements on this?
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: April 03, 2020, 07:21:03 AM
Listen to the rhythm guitar chord stabs - they're the same in both songs.  That's what Terry took from Don't Worry Baby.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Dennis Wilson solo live shows? on: April 01, 2020, 11:34:24 PM
If I remember correctly Dennis did some solo songs before the Beach Boys show at a few venues.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Was The Cabin Essence Sessions Argument Caught On Tape? on: March 17, 2020, 08:36:56 PM
And thereís a precedent for the Cabinessence lyrical discussion in what happened with Hang Onto Your Ego.  Mike was singing his part and volunteering to sing Alís part, yet still expressed his displeasure with the lyrics - and Brian changed them.  Similarly after singing the lyrics to Cabinessence Mike at a later vocal session for the song brought up the crow cries lyrics, only this time Brian didnít give in but instead - in a not atypical passive aggressive move - called in Van to explain the lyrics, putting Van in an impossible spot and pissing him off and leaving the question unsettled.  Not surprising that Brian turned to trying to complete the single H&V and stopped any significant work on the album after this (and the Inside Pop session that ďwent badlyĒ with vocals for Wonderful, Cabinessence and Surfs Up attempted).

I think Brian mayhave wanted to finish Heroes and release it and if it was a hit use this as validation for the rest of Smile and to forge ahead and complete it regardless of Mikeís or anyoneís misgivings.  Unfortunately things didnít exactly work out that way.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: March 10, 2020, 11:01:28 AM

Really? That's fascinating, I had no idea.

Do you know the source of that info?

Separately, I've always wondered when it became *public* knowledge that Manson had something to do with that song; does anybody know the answer to that question?

But I had no idea that it was a mystery to the band internally, as well.

It wasn't a mystery to Stephen Desper who recorded Manson singing the song, at Dennis's behest.  But I'm not surprised that no one else knew.  I know Dennis was supporting Manson and the Family and after he had them evicted (by moving out of the rented house and stopping payments) he supposedly gave Manson money for the song - but I'm a little surprised Dennis didn't give Manson partial songwriting credit.  It was recorded in 1968 and released 6 months before the murders.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: March 10, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
Lazy Lizzie I would imagine could be skipped over (and should be, to tell you the truth), because I think there's very little musically new about that song to have to secure a copyright for. The choruses are literally a copy/paste of the choruses of the already-released "Better Get Back in Bed", while the verses offer just a smidge of a new melody, and not a very good one at that. I would imagine if the copyright question ever comes up for this song, they might just skip it entirely for content reasons.

Due to so much of the song being simply recycled from another song in a significant way, I almost view "Better Get Back in Bed"/"Lazy Lizzie" as a "Land Ahoy"/"Cherry, Cherry Coupe" type of situation, as opposed to "Lazy Lizzie" really being its own independent, proper song. I think "Lazy Lizzie" is perhaps the saddest commentary on Brian's mental/emotional state in the late '70s.

To my ears, he was just creatively and emotionally spent and didn't give two f*cks about songwriting. It sounds like someone told him to write a song, and he churned this out to simply cause the request for a song to be placated. I hear not an ounce of Brian's heart or creativity in this song. If there was a textbook example of a song being written while Brian was not a well man, this would be exhibit A. One of the few Brian songs I can say I'd be fine if it never existed. I'm a big, big fan of Love You, despite its weirdness, as well as of other unreleased odd Brian demos from this time... but this track is a hard pass for me.

I disagree - to my ears, "Lizzie" is an example of '76 Brian doing whatever the heck he wanted to, commercial or not. The fact that it recycles old rhythms or melodies in not unusual for BW, and I actually DO hear lot of his heart and creativity in this one! It's different, it's joyous, and it's playful - creepy lyrics aside.

I'm with you - I love Lazy Lizzie and would love to hear a well-mixed and mastered version of the song.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: February 14, 2020, 09:04:52 AM
Didnít someone official somewhere say this was coming in February?
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best of 1968: White Album or Friends on: February 05, 2020, 07:32:05 AM
The White Album (The Beatles) was more popular and more influential than Friends.  While far from the Beatlesí best album, it is the best representation of the four Beatlesí personalities and where they were at musically at the time, warts and all.  There is a greater variety of musical styles and approaches than anything else they had done or would do.  The three principal writers were all extremely prolific at this time and the songs included show them at their best and at times at their worst.  Thatís what makes it such a fascinating album, almost a musical diary of their lives - they let it all hang out. 

I prefer Friends musically but the album is extremely short, didnít chart, and was running completely counter to the musical trends of the time.  It makes it even cooler now, of course, that Brian was making brilliant music that he wanted to make without concern for commerciality or trends, but if I had to choose between the White Album and Friends in a Best of 1968 list, Iíd go with the White Album.

Better yet, why not include both?  Iím sure one of the other albums in your list could be dropped to make room for Friends.

19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What's your favorite lead vocal from each Beach Boy? on: January 26, 2020, 11:12:17 AM
Brian - Farmers Daughter, Donít Worry Baby, You Still Believe in Me
Carl - This Whole World, Good Vibrations, You Need A Mess of Hell
Mike - Arenít You Glad, All I Wanna Do
Dennis - Wouldnít It Be Nice to Live Again, Slip on Through
Al - Susie Cincinnati, Hell Me Rhonda, Smile Vegetables
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: January 21, 2020, 02:53:21 PM
1983 single LP on ďBrother RecordsĒ
1985 single LP on Brother
1993 triple album on colored vinyl on Vigotone
? 2003 single LP on Sea of Tunes - a vinyl copy of Unsurpassed Masters Sea of Tunes Vol 16
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: \ on: January 21, 2020, 02:43:36 PM
So, for the past couple months, a local record shop has allowed me to scoop up all of those "collector's album" LP's, where fans had put out hard copies of the unreleased Beach Boys albums.  I now have most of them - both editions of "Smile," both editions of "Adult Child," both editions of "Califo(r)nia Feeling", "The New Album", "Merry Christmas", and the 'random unreleased tracks' comp "Carl And The Passions: Made In USA."

One problem.

No "Landlocked."

I actually asked the store today if they'd seen that come in, and they were fairly certain they had sold it (he asked "that had a tan cover, right?").  I took to eBay, where - for the first time I've seen - they DO have a "Landlocked".... in not great condition, and priced exponentially higher than it should be.  (The other albums in the series have cost me about 25 apiece.  This was well over 100.)

So, being a Beach Boys forum, I want to put feelers out - does ANYONE have a Brother Records "Landlocked" to spare?  Name a price.  If it's under 100 (including shipping), I'll buy it.

I believe there are at least four vinyl Smile boots, so you have two to go.
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Sums Up Life in 3 Minutes on PBS - Does he mention songwriting credits? on: January 11, 2020, 07:58:37 PM
To be even handed, Brian did leave Van Dyke off of two songs he wrote the lyrics to - Wonderful was originally credited just to Brian, wasnít it?  And Wind Chimes.  Even though Wind Chimes is an atypical lyric for Van Dyke and sounds like it certainly could have been written by Brian.  Both credits were corrected however.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Who Produced Susie Cincinatti? on: January 05, 2020, 06:09:25 AM
If I remember correctly, didn't John Belushi really like this song?

Yes it was one of his favorites.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Murry Wilson And Snow on: December 24, 2019, 02:57:03 PM
I didn't see this link posted for the 'Bless Me' song. It's pretty groovy Sunshine Pop.

Bless Me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruyXkv0B8Nw

Oh! 'Wilderness' is on Youtube too:

Wilderness:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t8mc5pifMs

These are both some pretty wild 60s relics for sure.

Bless me sounds very similar to Soulful Old Man Sunshine in style and instrumentation - and Wilderness a bit too.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: December 11, 2019, 08:49:50 AM
Friday.
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