As things stand means everyone involved is healthy and working. This is good. Would we rather someone had died in the middle of the C50 tour or that it was Brian who decided when it was over? ..... Even if others in the band wanted it to continue? ... As it ended might be a sour note, but it's a reality that was going to come one way or another.

Funny thing is, if it had been BRIAN who had called time on the whole thing (even if everyone else wanted to continue) the same people who tear Mike a new one for bowing out would be defending Brian's decision to the hilt.

Perhaps, but we should admit it would have stung a lot less, since Brian wouldn't have immediately gone out with just David Marks to tour the Seaworlds and Nutty Jerry's of the universe as "The Beach Boys" .....

But if we're upset mainly for the fact that it ended at all: well, no matter how it ended, we'd still be where we are now.

Keep going Pinder, someday you will convince somebody.....

whatever you're goin on about, please stop.

I'm the reincarnation of no one, and this is not a sequel to Brian's favorite movie: Seconds.

I also went to bat for Brian in my last post, so try and be agreeable when you can.

As things stand means everyone involved is healthy and working. This is good. Would we rather someone had died in the middle of the C50 tour or that it was Brian who decided when it was over? ..... Even if others in the band wanted it to continue? ... As it ended might be a sour note, but it's a reality that was going to come one way or another.

Funny thing is, if it had been BRIAN who had called time on the whole thing (even if everyone else wanted to continue) the same people who tear Mike a new one for bowing out would be defending Brian's decision to the hilt.

Perhaps, but we should admit it would have stung a lot less, since Brian wouldn't have immediately gone out with just David Marks to tour the Seaworlds and Nutty Jerry's of the universe as "The Beach Boys" .....

But if we're upset mainly for the fact that it ended at all: well, no matter how it ended, we'd still be where we are now.

But look, guys: it had to end sometime ......

But look at what we were gifted in 2015! Much more than what was even originally planned ....

I honestly thought some travesty would happen not even five shows in, but just look what we got!

What else would we have ended up with other than what we have: the licensed/Mike & Bruce "Beach Boys" touring and Brian doing his solo thing with Al and whoever else?

As things stand means everyone involved is healthy and working. This is good. Would we rather someone had died in the middle of the C50 tour or that it was Brian who decided when it was over? ..... Even if others in the band wanted it to continue? ... As it ended might be a sour note, but it's a reality that was going to come one way or another.

With Carl gone things will be messy, and that's just how it is :/

Mike and his damn room. Let him go into a room with Bruce. I'm sure we'll get some great new hits.

I don't know why the "mythic" room should be considered to be anything but Brian's room. He wrote a song about it! It's Brian's choice who gets to enter the room.

I think Mike basically means Brian's office in Hollywood where they wrote Warmth Of The Sun ......... An office, which we can all assume, is long gone .....

Sad. This whole thing.

Can't there be a button for us all to push that simply posts the famous Jack Reilly statement?

It's my impressions that the bands -- current and former BB and BW -- get along pretty well. For that matter, I think Dave gets along pretty well with everyone too.

The dynamic here is between Brian and Mike, and to a certain degree between Al and the other two. Al grated on some folks' nerves in the past, but it looks like he and Brian have ultimately come to value one another. Mike and Brian are the oil and water of this whole enterprise, the totally different substances that turn into tasty salad dressing when you shake the bottle really hard.

Shaking the bottle really hard and tossing the salad.

I guess we've found another thing for Bruce to do.

I'll go back to lurking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChTqYlDjtI

Thank you, but I think this quote from Mr. Michael E. Love is more appropriate:

"Next time there's a riot, man, you best stay out of sight"


BTW: the "Elvis is alive" thing that's being used to make me look stupid is based on Elvis himself, silly as it is, telling his cousin Billy Smith and other intimates that he was considering faking his death, and even going as far as consulting with some crackpot who apparently specialized in such things, like "procuring a body"...... Point is: speculation and theories are rarely ever based on absolutely nothing at all.

That's good to hear, I'm a fan of Elvis so I'll make sure to book a flight to Tallahassee to catch him eating minestrone and breadsticks this Thursday at the Olive Garden. Based on speculation that has nothing to do with reality, of course.

Elvis and breadsticks??

You have to hang out in places where multitudes of cheeseburgers are served in a pile on a plate if you want to catch a glimpse of the Hillbilly Cat.

Apologies. I thought this was a discussion board.

I'll go back to lurking.

No, I beg to differ. Fandom is *not* having an individual with a solid reputation and resume in the business come to this board, tell it as he was told firsthand about various bookings and other details, and have his words picked apart, parsed, and challenged by fans whose closest connection to what actually happened behind the headlines and message boards may have been buying a ticket to a show versus actually having direct professional and personal relationships with those who were involved.

There is fandom, and then there is reaching a level of arguing for the sake of arguing, and further trying to nitpick, bend, shape, spin, and parse every which way to avoid having to agree that something may have indeed happened exactly as reported despite that something going against your own wishes or "speculation". And then there is trying to rewrite history, which is a whole other ball of wax, or can o' worms, whatever the term is that applies.

Fandom is also not apologizing for those who continue to promote lies and distortions which have been proven untrue by those who actually know, by trying to chalk it up to 'speculation' rather than the blatant lie that it is. The "handlers" stuff is not speculation, it's total bullshit if I can be blunt about it. And it will be called that whenever someone tries to promote that line of crap on this board or elsewhere. Simple action and reaction scenario.

But hey, I can "speculate" that I'll buy a Lotto ticket and win 75 million tomorrow night, then later I can speculate when I don't win that the person who did win was a setup, and the whole thing was rigged from the inside to justify my "speculation" that I'd win being completely wrong and to also make me feel better about losing the 40 bucks I spent buying Lotto tickets. Either way, it's a fool's errand. Speculation is not reality especially when reality is staring you in the face.

I can also speculate that Elvis is alive and he goes to the Olive Garden in Tallahassee every Thursday for their $6.99 all-you-can-eat soup, salad, and breadsticks. I guess that's as valid as saying Elvis died in 1977.

Huh?

So, one person speaks for many? ......  including those directly accused of this or that?

When it suits a point of view? .... Oh, ok.

Until we have word from either Mike or Bruce on the subject, and their input is weighed against others, I'd imagine speculation is entirely warranted.

I think these guys were really sued for coming off as douches. Mainly Robin Thicke but dragging Pharrell down with him.

Many many other people could have gotten away with it, and they lost the case as much for the video as the track itself ..... Sleazy, oozing Thicke having sex with the wall as naked models prance around for no reason. The Gaye family probably took this as an offense to Marvin's memory assuming that soon enough Got To Get It Up and this abomination would be annointed as basically one and the same in the millenial pop culture venacular. So, they did what they had to in order to win the case and now there's at least the footnote of a lawsuit to wedge some distance between Marvin and Robin freaking Thicke!

[Pick a topic and it's rife with speculation, theory, and argument.]

I really don't know what to make of comments like these.

After how many people jumping on/inventing any/all reasons to paint Mike in a bad light, suddenly all of Beach Boy history has to be defended for Brian? .... Who's dissing or saying bad things about Brian? Nor do I think anyone's being an apologist for Mike or Bruce. Maybe there's been some mere mundane speculation because they happen to be human beings, but so what? .... I'd rather er on the side of that always. I mean, how do you speculate/assume the worst in one direction and poo poo speculation/assumtions in the opposite direction? .... Life is a two way street.

And if people don't like the vocal sound on Brian's album, so what? Who says they have to like the album even? Who says they can't even hate it? ... Beach Boys/Brian stuff has been picked apart, misunderstood, reevaluated, trashed, loved, for over 50 years.... I think Brian can handle some people wondering about the vocal sound (which IS odd in places, I must admit: but which doesn't stop me from adoring the album, either) .... Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't it be better to go to bat for all the reasons the album is great: songwriting, vibe, feel, musicianship, harmonies, rather than paint people as mad cult members because they have concerns about a rather inert technical detail?

As for Brian and his "controllers" .... With the man's history, there will likely always be that speculation, just as in life in general: there is always speculation. Pick a topic and it's rife with speculation, theory, and argument.

You make a lot of good points. I think the speculation can be summed up with three simple words, `This is fandom`. Other boards seem to understand that everything and anything will be discussed, picked apart, praised and criticized by fans far more than it would be by sane people. It`s all a part of fandom.

I know what you're saying but it's a bit unsettling when a fact, like Mike and Bruce not being present at the end of tour party seems to be massive enough to where discussion/speculation (fandom), is looked down upon and basically ridiculed. Are certain people's views/opinions under such thin skin that the hallmarks of fandom are a threat to be vanquished? I mean, how fun is it to lean back in one's chair and go "Yeah, Mike and Bruce: what assh*&es!"

If they weren't there, then there much be reasons why. Or like Bugliosi says in Helter Skelter: there is no such thing as a crime without a motive. I'd like to know the motive, no matter how it makes anyone involved look. "This guy or that guy sucks and is a bastard" is deadly boring.

As I understood it, Mike and Bruce were not invited to this.

Did the people you heard this from also say the incident with Redwood-Brian-Mike-Carl at Wally Heider's studio didn't happen, mention that the new Brian Wilson album was "full of synths" or "loaded with Autotune", and use the term "handlers" more than would be considered normal?

I really don't know what to make of comments like these.

After how many people jumping on/inventing any/all reasons to paint Mike in a bad light (fair enough), suddenly all of Beach Boy history has to be defended for Brian? .... Who's dissing or saying bad things about Brian? Nor do I think anyone's being an apologist for Mike or Bruce. Maybe there's been some mere mundane speculation because they happen to be human beings, but so what? .... I'd rather er on the side of that always. I mean, how do you speculate/assume the worst in one direction and poo poo speculation/assumtions in the opposite direction? .... Life is a two way street.

And if people don't like the vocal sound on Brian's album, so what? Who says they have to like the album even? Who says they can't even hate it? ... Beach Boys/Brian stuff has been picked apart, misunderstood, reevaluated, trashed, loved, for over 50 years.... I think Brian can handle some people wondering about the vocal sound (which IS odd in places, I must admit: but which doesn't stop me from adoring the album, either) .... Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't it be better to go to bat for all the reasons the album is great: songwriting, vibe, feel, musicianship, harmonies, rather than paint people as mad cult members because they have concerns about a rather inert technical detail?

As for Brian and his "handlers" .... With the man's history, there will likely always be that speculation, just as in life in general: there is always speculation. Pick a topic and it's rife with speculation, theory, and argument.

How do we know Mike just split moments after the last song without a word?

How do we know the photo in question represents the entierty of the last C50 show/backstage events/party/etc etc?

How do we know Bruce isn't assisting Mike as he takes the picture? ..... As in "adjusting the Mike"

We don't know he split like that. I'm wondering if it possibly happened, and how sadly awkward it must have been one way or another, if there was (or wasn't) a proper good-bye.

Well, the sadly awkward part is pure speculation. Whether or not Mike (and assuming Bruce in tow) just split without saying a word: it's us here assumimg/imagining that it would be sadly awkward ...... It could have been as simple as "Oh, yeah, Mike and Bruce can't make the photo-op/party/whatever" ..... equalling: no big deal.... Or it could have been "Great show, have fun at the party. I got this and that to do" by Mike ..... equalling: no big deal.

I highly doubt Mike was banned from the event or went out of his way NOT to be there either.

But this is just me speculating as well ..... Hopefully someone who was there will chime in.

How do we know Mike just split moments after the last song without a word?

How do we know the photo in question represents the entierty of the last C50 show/backstage events/party/etc etc?

How do we know Bruce isn't assisting Mike as he takes the picture? ..... As in "adjusting the Mike"

Don't you mean dome glare?

Ha!

Well, phone cameras take care of all that stuff these days, so .....

As more of a Beach Boys fan than a "Brianista" or "Kokomoron" I would imagine it's not easy at this point for either Brian or Mike to feel comfortable around each other enough to not just avoid the issue altogether. I think when Mike talks about getting Brian alone in a room, he means under the auspice of there being an album in production and a schedule etc etc .... He also knows or likely feels that people in Brian's camp simply don't like him as so many fans don't (dislike is too mild a word in some fan's case) ... It's sad, but not exactly uncommon.. I have family members who've hardly said more than a couple words to each other in decades. Even at big family gatherings, they'll simply just avoid being in the same room/part of the house at the same time.

Maybe Mike should settle for getting Brian alone in a hallway?

He probably did! 

I dunno ..... There would likely be "ring glare" in the guy's glasses

Here's the thing. It's been noted many times before.

Brian and Mike were working in exceptionally close quarters for all of the C50 tour. There was no BW "entourage there" -- no Melinda, no Jean Sievers, no Joe Thomas -- for the vast majority of the shows.

If writing in the proverbial room is so important to Mike, why did he never -- in the entire tour -- drop by Brian's room either backstage or in the hotel? If co-writing is so important to him, why didn't he show up with some lyrics and ask Brian what he thought?

Let me repeat: The word from folks who were there is that Mike never did that. Never. In dozens of dates, across the U.S. and Europe, Mike never showed up to spend time with his cousin. Brian generally only collaborates with people he feels comfortable with. Mike had a chance to re-establish a relationship, to become comfortable with Brian yet again. But he didn't.

As always, a picture is worth a thousand of these.

How do we know Mike didn't take this picture?

J/K

Longtime lurker here who lives in the area.

While in town you should stop by notorious Dennis haunt Chez-Jay.

They've "upscaled" it a bit recently, but it still retains it's divey charm.

http://www.opentable.com/chez-jay